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  #151  
Old 03-28-2019, 09:40 AM
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I'm happy that he is getting some attention; I've only started paying attention to him myself this week. One thing that intrigues me is that he is not only a religious man (Episcopalian), he has stated frequently that his politics are a direct result of his faith. That's really hits home for me because becoming Episcopalian was one of the first steps in my evolution from Republican to Democrat. I would LOVE to see us put to rest the idea that the GOP is the "Christian" party. It's not, by any means. It's the evangelical party, maybe, and not for the benefit of either brand.

I really want to see a Democrat run who speaks freely and frequently about his or her own faith while respecting and honoring people of all (or no) faiths - which is what I keep seeing from Pete. I really hope he goes far in the race, whether or not he ultimately wins this time.

(A joke I've heard a couple of times already: "He speaks seven languages! That's six and a half more than the current President!")
  #152  
Old 03-28-2019, 12:13 PM
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Well, the Republican candidate is mentioned in the Bible, so they have that going for them.
  #153  
Old 03-29-2019, 06:25 AM
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I share the concern that PB's being a married gay dude with an odd name is going to hurt him with a substantial chunk of the electorate. I also wonder, more and more, if he has the gumption to stand up to Trump & Co. once they start seriously dumping on him, as they will if he comes anywhere close to the Dem nomination. Just not sure how he'll fare once the GOP attack machine cranks up.

The guy served an active tour of duty in Afghanistan. I guarantee you soldiers are better at mean roasting than any politician - and certainly better at being on the receiving end of a roast than, say, Donald Trump.
Besides, he seems like he's already turning what could be surface attacks against him to his own advantage - he makes fun of his being the "first episcopalian gay millenial mayor candidate". He opens with that, then segues into why that's a good thing.


Plus homosexuality is more and more normalized (except among MAGAheads who would never ever vote for a democrat ever) and any time Republican candidates try to rag on him for that they'll look like stupid bigots - which is not a problem for their base (but again, their base will vote R come hell or high water), but might steer the center the other way, much like Trump's antics might play well in Hicksville, Tennessee but not so much anywhere else.

I think they'd be more successful ragging on his age and (relative) inexperience - but then again, if they go that way Democrats will be quick to counter that Trump had no experience in public office whatsoever (and doesn't seem like he has gained any yet) and that he's smart as all getout. Which, again MAGAheads would jeer at, but the center probably doesn't ? Maybe ?
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  #154  
Old 03-29-2019, 09:21 AM
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The guy served an active tour of duty in Afghanistan. I guarantee you soldiers are better at mean roasting than any politician - and certainly better at being on the receiving end of a roast than, say, Donald Trump.
Besides, he seems like he's already turning what could be surface attacks against him to his own advantage - he makes fun of his being the "first episcopalian gay millenial mayor candidate". He opens with that, then segues into why that's a good thing.


Plus homosexuality is more and more normalized (except among MAGAheads who would never ever vote for a democrat ever) and any time Republican candidates try to rag on him for that they'll look like stupid bigots - which is not a problem for their base (but again, their base will vote R come hell or high water), but might steer the center the other way, much like Trump's antics might play well in Hicksville, Tennessee but not so much anywhere else.

I think they'd be more successful ragging on his age and (relative) inexperience - but then again, if they go that way Democrats will be quick to counter that Trump had no experience in public office whatsoever (and doesn't seem like he has gained any yet) and that he's smart as all getout. Which, again MAGAheads would jeer at, but the center probably doesn't ? Maybe ?
I think you are getting ahead of things - first he has to win the primaries, and thereby counter whatever other Democrats say about him. OK, other Democrats would never dare say anything about his homosexuality - what does he say about accusations of inexperience coming from Elizabeth Warren?

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  #155  
Old 03-31-2019, 02:11 PM
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what does he say about accusations of inexperience coming from Elizabeth Warren?
Inexperience is popular. Not only Trump but also Cortez and then there are Macron in France,Zelenskiy in Ukraine, Caputova in Slovakia, and even Farage (Brexit) in the UK. They're not weighed down by political baggage. They speak more freely.
  #156  
Old 04-01-2019, 12:14 PM
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His preliminary fundraising totals for the 1st quarter are over 7 million dollars. That’s not too bad, let’s see what the rest of the campaigns report.

I’ve been actively engaged in politics since age 18, this is the first time I’ve donated to a candidate this early in the primary season.
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  #157  
Old 04-01-2019, 02:30 PM
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I think you are getting ahead of things - first he has to win the primaries, and thereby counter whatever other Democrats say about him. OK, other Democrats would never dare say anything about his homosexuality - what does he say about accusations of inexperience coming from Elizabeth Warren?

Regards,
Shodan
Gee [he says, crossing his arms, an expectant expression on his face] what would you imagine they would say about his homosexuality, if they dared?

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  #158  
Old 04-01-2019, 03:24 PM
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What is this "Buttegieg isn't gay enough" meme all about?
  #159  
Old 04-01-2019, 05:32 PM
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What is this "Buttegieg isn't gay enough" meme all about?
I think it was when J. K. Rowling tweeted that Buttegieg had an "intense sexual relationship" with Dumbledore while refusing to put it in the movies or books.
  #160  
Old 04-01-2019, 06:04 PM
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Has Mr. Buttigieg revealed anything about his role in the ONI? Is he bound to be as disastrous for Afghanistan as Bush, Obama, and Trump?
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Old 04-01-2019, 06:16 PM
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What is this "Buttegieg isn't gay enough" meme all about?


It’s basically a complaint from some activists (and probably ratfuckers from other campaigns) that he hasn’t been outspoken enough on LGBT issues. Similar to how Obama was criticised for not being black enough.
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  #162  
Old 04-01-2019, 07:20 PM
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Is anyone bothered by how he's been sort of reinforcing right wing frames? Just in the past few days, he amplified the myth that Vietnam veterans were treated like dogshit when they came home; and he complimented Trump voters for their perspicacity in supposedly picking the only candidate who was offering ideas to help improve their lives.
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Old 04-01-2019, 07:23 PM
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He is saying what he feels he needs to say to get votes, and his instincts are probably correct.

Who is Pete Buttegieg? With every day that passes and everything I continue to see from him, my answer is basically "the fucking man." I like the guy more than anyone else in the field at the moment.
  #164  
Old 04-01-2019, 07:25 PM
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Is anyone bothered by how he's been sort of reinforcing right wing frames? Just in the past few days, he amplified the myth that Vietnam veterans were treated like dogshit when they came home; and he complimented Trump voters for their perspicacity in supposedly picking the only candidate who was offering ideas to help improve their lives.
Hmm sounds familiar.
  #165  
Old 04-01-2019, 10:37 PM
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He is saying what he feels he needs to say to get votes, and his instincts are probably correct.

Maybe in a general election. Hard to see how that stuff resonates with Democratic primary voters, unless it's in an extremely "meta" way.
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  #166  
Old 04-01-2019, 10:59 PM
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Is anyone bothered by how he's been sort of reinforcing right wing frames? Just in the past few days, he amplified the myth that Vietnam veterans were treated like dogshit when they came home; and he complimented Trump voters for their perspicacity in supposedly picking the only candidate who was offering ideas to help improve their lives.
He is saying things they agree with. If he takes their side on some old wound (is there an obsession with blaming liberals for the treatment of vets?), he can create a channel of communication. We'll have to wait and see how good of a heartstring harpist he is.
  #167  
Old 04-01-2019, 11:37 PM
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Regardless of whether or not Vietnam veterans were actually, in substantial numbers, treated poorly when they returned to the country - something I simply cannot comment on definitively because I'm 32 years old - EVERY Vietnam veteran that I know including bleeding-heart liberals buys into this narrative and has mentioned it at some point when the topic of their service came up. I've heard that some of them were treated badly by left-wing students and anti-war protestors, and some were treated badly by conservative veterans of previous wars who thought the Vietnam generation were lacking in some way. But enough of them FEEL that Vietnam veterans were, in the main, treated poorly, for it to be a "thing."

Older voters are really, really important. Pete is very young for a politician. But by being a veteran, he shares a connection with that older generation that very few A-list politicians have. He is trying to build a bridge here, as stated above. Because he is smart.

I believe he is the smartest by far of any of the candidates running. Maybe not in a political sense - though I think he is on that path - but just in the sense of being SMART, full stop. Out of all of the people in this election, I expect that Pete is going to have the smallest number of stupid mistakes. He may make one or two. But I think his number will be the lowest. He is very savvy.
  #168  
Old 04-02-2019, 06:59 AM
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David Brooks on why Mayor Pete is connecting with people


https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/01/o...imes&smtyp=cur
  #169  
Old 04-02-2019, 10:02 AM
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Has Mr. Buttigieg revealed anything about his role in the ONI? Is he bound to be as disastrous for Afghanistan as Bush, Obama, and Trump?
Is this something we should actually care about, or another nothingburger to waste bandwidth over?
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  #170  
Old 04-02-2019, 10:54 AM
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Think. "Father of chickens"—what could that mean but... rooster?

Bu means 'father', not 'lord'. I'm grateful to the Telegraph for giving us the clue to "tiġieġ," but I criticize their mistranslation of Bu.

It couldn't do anything with the name as is, because the way the different words are compounded to make a surname isn't going to be found in any dictionary. The dictionary does have tiġieġ translated as chickens.

Bu is North African Arabic for 'father', but isn't a word in standard Maltese, in which the word for father is missier (from "monsieur," via Italian).

The things Google Translate can do are dwarfed by the things it hopelessly can't do.
It's hard to directly account for the "Bu-" part when comparing to English surnames. Otherwise, though, Buttigieg's surname seems somewhat analogous to English surnames like Fowler or Cox.
  #171  
Old 04-03-2019, 04:32 PM
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Perhaps the most fun thing about this campaign season is reading Nathan Robinson as he plays the far-left curmudgeon and rails against everyone (except Bernie) for not being progressive enough. He's already smacked Beto around twice and knocked Kamala Harris once. Here's his take on Buttigieg: https://www.currentaffairs.org/2019/03/all-about-pete .

There's lots of stuff there, but two points stand out that don't get mentioned much. First his work for McKinsey & Company, a corporate consulting firm that's everything progressives love to hate. Second, the fact that South Bend has a large and obvious gap between its very poor black community and everyone else. This would be true for almost any city, of course, but would loom as a potential problem if he became a serious contender in the race.
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Old 04-03-2019, 04:57 PM
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If he's worked at McKinsey then he has a better knowledge of what's wrong than most.

Here's a report (pdf) called The Racial Wealth Divide in South Bend from Sep 2017.
  #173  
Old 04-04-2019, 11:02 AM
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People in this thread are really treating black voters as invisible. White conservatives are not the only ones who are less accepting of homosexuality. African Americans are about twice as likely as other Democrats to disapprove. ...
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This article says he is weak with black voters: https://www.southbendtribune.com/new...dce6f9452.html ...
First in terms of that article - yes his overall margins against his Black opposition candidate, Henry Davis Jr., were lower in some of the predominately Blacks districts than in others. Not sure if I'd read that as proof that a different white candidate, say a straight one, would have won those districts.

Your contention seems to be that Black voters won't vote for a gay candidate.

How about we do an experiment? A good controlled one. Find a race and run two Black candidates of the same gender both with some progressive cred, one more of an outsider, like Buttigieg is, and who is also gay like he is, while the other is a bit more establishment, experienced, and straight.

Huh. If only we could do that and see what would happen ...

Yeah, Lightfoot v Preckwinkle and the gay outsider won by a nearly 3 to 1 margin sweeping all wards.

Gay is not the kiss of death with Black voters. Issues and "change" matter.

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  #174  
Old 04-05-2019, 01:16 AM
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Does anyone else here think Mayor Pete would do a great job as an SNL host?
  #175  
Old 04-06-2019, 05:30 AM
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It's hard to get concrete policy positions out of him let alone lead a leading late night skit show. The issue with black voters is cultural and strong ties to religion. They aren't different from religious white voters. Grouping blacks as what's been outlined is borderline racism.

I'd argue that many whites who are as religious as Blacks will also have a dim view on homosexuality and how it means you're not a real man, which we all know is a load of bologna. Though given what's happened under Trump, I sincerely doubt many black voters who've been wronged and or hurt will vote for the TA. It may be a rubber stamp vote for PB if he makes it to the end, which I sincerely doubt he will.

Then again, Obama was a relatively unheard of senator before he chose to ran. Biden has so many troubles. Bernie is dodgier than ever. Gillebrand, Klobaucher, Harris and Booker are tarnished Democrats. Gabbard is a wolf in sheep's clothing. Then again, the GOP doesn't seem to have an issue with gay people who keep to themselves. Why of course let's look at the gentleman from South Carolina.

Graham makes Leslie Jordan come off as the butcher of the two.


Anyway, can't really blame Pete B. for not making his policies public information. Don't make claims and promises you can't cash.

Last edited by SOJA; 04-06-2019 at 05:32 AM.
  #176  
Old 04-07-2019, 03:00 PM
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I saw his interview on Meet The Press this morning, and was pleasantly surprised. He seems to have his shit together and seems to have a level head. Nevermind the experience issue, with the current Oval Office occupant the idea of previous experience as a prerequisite has been forever smashed. I have a new early favorite, and it is not Joe Biden. (Or Sanders. Come on. We want to beat Trump here.) Mayor Pete, I like your nickname, too. Do you have any skeletons in your closet?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4ReHML0BHQ


ETA: Meet The Press link

Last edited by bobot; 04-07-2019 at 03:01 PM.
  #177  
Old 04-07-2019, 06:40 PM
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He must be a skier, that Boot-Edge-Edge!
  #178  
Old 04-07-2019, 07:01 PM
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This candidate is intelligent but pretty shallow.

This guy explains it all

CNN Simpleton Fawns Over Mayor Pete For Dumb Reasons
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  #179  
Old 04-07-2019, 10:32 PM
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Nevermind the experience issue, with the current Oval Office occupant the idea of previous experience as a prerequisite has been forever smashed.

This is exactly backward, for multiple reasons.

First of all, the moral one: we should not accept Trump's erosion (or obliteration) of norms. We ought to seek to bring those back immediately after he is gone. It is our moral responsibility to do so, and if we don't do it immediately, they really will be gone.

Secondly, the political one: to beat Trump, we should try to nominate someone whose strengths contrast with his weaknesses. He's old, so nominate someone young. (Okay, Pete's got that, although IMO it's going too far the other way.) He's inexperienced, so nominate someone experienced. He's a pu$$y grabber, so nominate someone who has not even a whiff of any MeToo issues. (You might guess I'm not a big fan of Biden.) Etc.
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Old 04-07-2019, 10:41 PM
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This candidate is intelligent but pretty shallow.

This guy explains it all

CNN Simpleton Fawns Over Mayor Pete For Dumb Reasons
Who is this guy and why would I sit through 18 minutes of his video on Youtube? Perhaps you can explain it all instead.
  #181  
Old 04-08-2019, 03:26 AM
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Basically ignore the fan cheering of Buttigieg, he has no specific policies and is not for free healthcare.
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Old 04-08-2019, 03:31 AM
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This is exactly backward, for multiple reasons.

First of all, the moral one: we should not accept Trump's erosion (or obliteration) of norms. We ought to seek to bring those back immediately after he is gone. It is our moral responsibility to do so, and if we don't do it immediately, they really will be gone.
Actually, we see the rejection of experienced politicians elsewhere in the world: Farage, Macron, Caputovna, etc. Politicians like May, Cameron, Clinton, and Biden have spent all their lives in the political bubble. They have no experience of the real world, no real connection with the working populace. And Trump and Brexit are symptoms of that failure.
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Old 04-08-2019, 05:19 AM
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This is exactly backward, for multiple reasons.
...
The so called president had exactly zero political experience before his current gig. Therefore political experience is clearly not a prerequisite. That's a fact. Political experience is better, certainly. And by the way, Mayor Pete has Mayoral experience.

Last edited by bobot; 04-08-2019 at 05:20 AM.
  #184  
Old 04-08-2019, 05:31 AM
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Universal health care is not FREE HEALTHCARE! I have never spoken to another person who believes that. Universal healthcare is just paid for differently. And I heard Mayor Pete speak about this issue on an interview just the other day. He seems to support medi-care for all with a strong private insurance industry for those who want it and can afford it.
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Old 04-08-2019, 05:41 AM
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https://www.opensecrets.org/news/201...arter-numbers/

Buttigieg actually seems to have had a pretty good start in terms of fundraising, and he's definitely getting it done in terms of marketing his name. Sanders had the best quarter, but O'Rourke seems to have done the most in the shortest span of time. Although I wouldn't read too much into Q1 fundraising, it seems that, at minimum, Pete will be a part of the first few rounds of Democratic debates, which start this summer IIRC.
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Old 04-08-2019, 05:44 AM
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Universal health care is not FREE HEALTHCARE! I have never spoken to another person who believes that. Universal healthcare is just paid for differently. And I heard Mayor Pete speak about this issue on an interview just the other day. He seems to support medi-care for all with a strong private insurance industry for those who want it and can afford it.
Which is probably a reasonable position - either that or regulating private healthcare as Obamacare does while offering a public option, which Obamacare tried to do but couldn't.
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Old 04-08-2019, 07:03 AM
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This is exactly backward, for multiple reasons.

First of all, the moral one: we should not accept Trump's erosion (or obliteration) of norms. We ought to seek to bring those back immediately after he is gone. It is our moral responsibility to do so, and if we don't do it immediately, they really will be gone.

Secondly, the political one: to beat Trump, we should try to nominate someone whose strengths contrast with his weaknesses. He's old, so nominate someone young. (Okay, Pete's got that, although IMO it's going too far the other way.) He's inexperienced, so nominate someone experienced. He's a pu$$y grabber, so nominate someone who has not even a whiff of any MeToo issues. (You might guess I'm not a big fan of Biden.) Etc.
I'm going with, He's a fascist so nominate someone who isn't a fascist. He's a criminal so let's nominate someone who isn't a criminal. He's utterly ignorant so let's nom -- oh, the hell with it. Point is, 'different than Trump' is not exactly a fine sieve.
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Old 04-08-2019, 07:07 AM
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I am finding that at the moment the person to compare to Buttigieg is Beto -- young charismatic white guys with energy and not a huge back story to them. In that match up Buttigieg looks much better -- more levelheaded, moderate, rather prominently promoting actual Christian values, a vet. While Beto comes across as hip and whimsical, which I don't think is going to win us back the country.
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Old 04-08-2019, 12:38 PM
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I am finding that at the moment the person to compare to Buttigieg is Beto -- young charismatic white guys with energy and not a huge back story to them. In that match up Buttigieg looks much better -- more levelheaded, moderate, rather prominently promoting actual Christian values, a vet. While Beto comes across as hip and whimsical, which I don't think is going to win us back the country.
I generally agree.

A lot of the buzz over Beto has to do with his showing against Ted Cruz, but like Trump, Cruz is very polarizing and unpopular. There are any number of candidates who could have given Cruz a close race. It's early and I admittedly don't know all that much about the candidates, but from what I've seen so far, I think Buttigieg seems to have a better grasp of issues, and it seems like he's generally thought to anticipating the kinds of questions that are going to come up and how to respond to them. But Beto has a resume as well. I like Beto; I just think that I'm liking Buttigieg a little more at this stage.

Having said that, as much as I hate it and think it shouldn't matter, a lot of this country isn't ready for a gay president. That doesn't mean he should drop out of the race. It's just a fact, and it's going to be a challenge.
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Old 04-08-2019, 03:45 PM
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Could be interesting if the Dems nominate a theocrat up against the most secular president in US history.

I predict a lot of sanctimonious talk from ostensibly secular or even atheist Democrats about “actual” Christian values.

Last edited by WillFarnaby; 04-08-2019 at 03:47 PM.
  #191  
Old 04-08-2019, 03:45 PM
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Chasten Buttigieg, husband of the candidate, speaks at a recent Human Rights Campaign dinner in Houston: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=grqt...dImi6wikWozg38
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Old 04-08-2019, 06:06 PM
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The so called president had exactly zero political experience before his current gig. Therefore political experience is clearly not a prerequisite. That's a fact.

It's a fact that it's not a prerequisite for a Republican to eke out an Electoral College victory (combined with three million vote loss in the popular vote) against an unpopular Democratic opponent who was attempting to break the glass ceiling while getting investigated by the FBI and publicly collapsing. It is not a fact that it's not a prerequisite for a Democrat. That is unproven.
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  #193  
Old 04-09-2019, 04:28 AM
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Originally Posted by SlackerInc View Post
It's a fact that it's not a prerequisite for a Republican to eke out an Electoral College victory (combined with three million vote loss in the popular vote) against an unpopular Democratic opponent who was attempting to break the glass ceiling while getting investigated by the FBI and publicly collapsing. It is not a fact that it's not a prerequisite for a Democrat. That is unproven.
Oh please. Clinton wasn't popular, that's all you need. You only have to look elsewhere in the world to see that the rest is complete rubbish. Look at Macron, Tymoshenko, and Caputova for examples.
  #194  
Old 04-09-2019, 05:26 AM
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.... Having said that, as much as I hate it and think it shouldn't matter, a lot of this country isn't ready for a gay president. That doesn't mean he should drop out of the race. It's just a fact, and it's going to be a challenge.
And “a lot of this country” is going to vote R no matter what. The two overlap quite a bit. “A lot” weren’t ready for a Black president or a Catholic one either.

Are MI, PA, and WI part of that “a lot”?
  #195  
Old 04-09-2019, 05:37 AM
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I'll admit I'm curious about how he's going to appeal to voters who have some level of issue with his sexual orientation and/or marriage, not all of whom are right-wing troglodytes who would never vote for a Democrat regardless.

I'm also curious about his plans for mitigating his outsider status if elected. Obama had Biden as the well-connected insider; I wonder if Pete has someone similar in mind. (And wouldn't it be weird if it was Biden again? I mean, I don't see it happening but it certainly could.)
  #196  
Old 04-09-2019, 06:11 AM
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Well, those people will either enter the 21st Century, or they won't. What's Mayor Pete supposed to say to those "who have some level of issue with his sexual orientation and/or marriage," anyway? "Please think of me as a human being"?

I know what I'D tell them: "Get your mind out of my bedroom!"
  #197  
Old 04-09-2019, 06:25 AM
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Well, those people will either enter the 21st Century, or they won't. What's Mayor Pete supposed to say to those "who have some level of issue with his sexual orientation and/or marriage," anyway? "Please think of me as a human being"?

I know what I'D tell them: "Get your mind out of my bedroom!"
Yes, but that's not a way to win votes. What he needs to do is to convince them that the thing they're hung up about is not nearly as important as other things like the economy, international relations, social justice or not voting for a corrupt wannabe-dictator who abducts children.
  #198  
Old 04-09-2019, 07:05 AM
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“A lot” weren’t ready for a Black president or a Catholic one either.
Precisely. And when it happened, it turned out that 'a lot' was in fact a very small minority and that that issue was dwarfed by policy and character issues.
  #199  
Old 04-09-2019, 07:44 AM
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I expect that there are a very large number of people who are uncomfortable with homosexuality and would really prefer a straight candidate, but for whom it's sufficiently far down on their list of priorities that they'd vote for a gay man anyway.
  #200  
Old 04-09-2019, 08:17 AM
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Likewise, there was a lot of handwringing about how X% of voters wouldn't vote for a Mormon, and then there was a Mormon candidate, and while he lost, he did exactly as well any generic candidate of his party would have been predicted to do given the conditions of the economy, etc.

There's not an easy comparison, but I don't know that polling on homosexuality is even that far off of where racial issues stood in 2007. (And the trends are a lot more positive too.)

Last edited by Lord Feldon; 04-09-2019 at 08:20 AM.
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