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  #101  
Old 06-19-2019, 03:01 AM
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Raab is very popular with MPs.
Evidently not.
  #102  
Old 06-19-2019, 04:20 AM
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If he plays it right, Stewart could be very well placed to become a more moderate leader, if and when Brexit destroys Johnson’s administration. That very well may be his game plan.
I don't think he's planned it out that intricately, and in today's unstable political climate I'm not sure it's worth it to do so. All he needs to do is to position himself as the Anti-Boris - the toadies who want a spot in Boris' cabinet will gravitate that way, but Stewart is aiming to grab support from those who dislike Boris and everything he stands for. The question is whether the party as a whole is pro- or anti-Boris, and I fear Stewart may be out of luck in the short term. It may still play out to his advantage but I'm not sure I'd call it a plan.
  #103  
Old 06-19-2019, 10:15 AM
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Fascinating for me as a political junkie to watch this process unfold. Horrifying for me as an Anglophile, though.
  #104  
Old 06-19-2019, 12:16 PM
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Stewart’s out. This is now a lot less interesting. Johnson’s so far ahead of everyone else I expect this won’t even get to the membership vote.

Shame. Shame. Shame.

OB
  #105  
Old 06-19-2019, 12:35 PM
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Stewart’s out.
Steward is now well-positioned to lead a new centrist party when the Tories finally self-destruct.
  #106  
Old 06-19-2019, 12:59 PM
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Steward is now well-positioned to lead a new centrist party when the Tories finally self-destruct.
I think we have quite enough centrist parties in the UK already, none with a great deal of traction.

ETA: Unfortunately.

OB

Last edited by Oswald Bastable; 06-19-2019 at 01:00 PM.
  #107  
Old 06-19-2019, 01:29 PM
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What the heck- can't the Brits see what happens when you put a loud, boorish, lying blond in power? Everybody hates the guy, let's make him PM!
  #108  
Old 06-19-2019, 03:55 PM
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I’ve got to admit, this tweet from Sajid Javid is heartwarming. Handwritten letter from his daughter about the Conservative party leadership race.

https://twitter.com/sajidjavid/statu...877558784?s=21
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  #109  
Old 06-19-2019, 04:47 PM
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I’ve got to admit, this tweet from Sajid Javid is heartwarming. Handwritten letter from his daughter about the Conservative party leadership race.

https://twitter.com/sajidjavid/statu...877558784?s=21
Yeah, I'm not a Javid fan but as the father of a daughter of similar age I am feeling the warm fuzzies here.
  #110  
Old 06-19-2019, 06:07 PM
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Steward is now well-positioned to lead a new centrist party when the Tories finally self-destruct.
I don't know what his future holds, but he's an interesting character. With his background - and his reported ability to master a brief while doing his DFID duties - he'd probably make a good Foreign Secretary and that's something the next PM is going to need very badly indeed. I do get the impression that he has begun to develop his own politics, and that's no bad thing.

Anyway, here's a Rory Stewart anecdote from a former Parliamentary researcher who was based in the next-door office a few years ago:

https://twitter.com/CharLeach24x/sta...15892938629120

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Councillor Charlotte Leach @CharLeach24x

He’s not an MP I know particularly well but I do have a great story from when I worked in Parliament for @SeemaKennedy. Our office was next door to Rory’s on the 5th floor in Norman Shaw North.

One evening I was working late in the office on my own. There was a knock on the door & it was @RoryStewartUK who told me that he had locked himself out of his office and and asked if he could use our office for a meeting.

I said it was no problem but before I had a chance to say anything else he walked straight across the office and climbed out of the 5th floor window and disappeared.

At this point I panicked thinking that surely he must have fallen and what if people thought I had pushed him 😂

Then, before I know it he comes walking back into my office through the main door, picks up his stuff and leaves. He had somehow managed to scale the side of the building and break into his office through the window.

I have honestly never been more shocked in my life. Looking out of the window there was essentially nothing to hold onto so to this day I have no idea how he managed to do it but I was suitably impressed! #RoryWalksOn
Rory Stewart denies ever having been in any way connected to the Secret Intelligence Service.
  #111  
Old 06-19-2019, 06:10 PM
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Stewart’s out. This is now a lot less interesting. Johnson’s so far ahead of everyone else I expect this won’t even get to the membership vote.

Shame. Shame. Shame.

OB
Johnson is only getting 40% of the vote. He could lose if someone benefits from an "Anybody but Johnson" movement.

I think Johnson will win, however. He's rabid about Brexit and has more charisma than Gove. Would that be a good thing for the UK? Probably not, but then again, voting for Brexit probably wasn't good for the UK either.

At least he's realistic about one thing: they can't keep delaying Brexit. They already voted to separate, and if the only way to do that is no deal, they'll have to do it.
  #112  
Old 06-19-2019, 06:12 PM
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Rory Stewart denies ever having been in any way connected to the Secret Intelligence Service.
Sounds like he'd be great as the next James Bond.
  #113  
Old 06-19-2019, 06:17 PM
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I just noticed, Rory Stewart kind of looks like what would happen if you morphed all the faces of the members of the Rolling Stones together.
  #114  
Old 06-19-2019, 06:27 PM
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Johnson is only getting 40% of the vote. He could lose if someone benefits from an "Anybody but Johnson" movement.
It doesn't matter. The Tory MPs only winnow the candidates to the final two, and then the Tory membership gets to vote - and they seem to love the utter charlatan. Barring a "live boy or dead girl" scenario* happening in the next few weeks the clown is the next PM. It's going to feel weird hearkening back to the Golden Age of Theresa May's reign.

* And even then the ranks of the undead that forms the Tory membership would probably still vote for him
  #115  
Old 06-20-2019, 02:24 AM
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Good graphic of the evolution of the Conservative Party.

From an excellent article in the New Statesman, The closing of the conservative mind
  #116  
Old 06-20-2019, 04:04 AM
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I think Johnson will win, however. He's rabid about Brexit and has more charisma than Gove.
Man, that's a low bar to clear. Might as well point out that he's taller than Peter Dinklage and a better sprinter than Stephen Hawking.

That said, this may make you throw up in your mouth a little: Girls4Gove.
  #117  
Old 06-20-2019, 09:43 AM
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...That said, this may make you throw up in your mouth a little: Girls4Gove.
Thanks. I'm not big into trigger warnings, but if ever one was needed....
  #118  
Old 06-20-2019, 10:09 AM
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Michael Gove always gives me the impression that he's a boy made out of wood that's been give the power of life. So a bit like Pinnochio, but without the growing nose feature.
  #119  
Old 06-20-2019, 12:17 PM
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Well, he's out, so it may be a little unfair to be piling in on him, but he always reminded me of Pob.

So as many predicted it's down to Hunt vs. Johnson. While we're at it, let's be really puerile and remark on Hunt's over-vigorous wrist action at the time of the London Olympics. You may make up your own jokes about "end" and "bell".
  #120  
Old 06-21-2019, 04:09 AM
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Well, he's out, so it may be a little unfair to be piling in on him, but he always reminded me of Pob.
It is never unfair to pile on Michael Gove.
  #121  
Old 06-21-2019, 07:48 AM
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You can't unsee this image of Gove jogging.

Warning: This photo may be upsetting to people of a sensitive disposition.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...on-earth#img-2

(Those poor kids must be scarred for life.)
  #122  
Old 06-21-2019, 10:17 AM
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Johnson is only getting 40% of the vote. He could lose if someone benefits from an "Anybody but Johnson" movement.
Is that Hunt, though?
  #123  
Old 06-21-2019, 02:05 PM
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Hard to tell if this'll come to anything, but Johnson's personal life is a bit of a ticking timebomb for him.

Police called to loud altercation at Boris Johnson's home

Will The Guardian release the recording? If they do, will it make any difference? Who knows these days, frankly.
  #124  
Old 06-21-2019, 02:36 PM
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Hard to tell if this'll come to anything, but Johnson's personal life is a bit of a ticking timebomb for him.

Police called to loud altercation at Boris Johnson's home

Will The Guardian release the recording? If they do, will it make any difference? Who knows these days, frankly.
I doubt if it would make any difference to Tory members, whether as reported speech or in a live recording. It doesn't tell us much more about Johnson's private life and character than is already widely known. True, it doesn't say much for his negotiating skills, but will Tory members think throwing an EastEnders tantrum is the way to deal with the EU? Though if I were the Downing Street cat, I might be looking for a bolthole just in case.
  #125  
Old 06-21-2019, 07:49 PM
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Why would anyone want to preside over this slow-moving disaster? I picture the Titanic heading straight towards an iceberg and not even trying to steer away.
  #126  
Old 06-23-2019, 03:36 AM
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Why would anyone want to preside over this slow-moving disaster? I picture the Titanic heading straight towards an iceberg and not even trying to steer away.
By sheer force of personality and negotiating skill the iceberg will be persuaded to melt in time. Because we are special and it owes us. Or computers can work it all out. Or something (I'm not entirely confident I've quite understood the mindset of a Tory Brexiteer, except I'm pretty sure that they don't seem to have grasped the difference between a political agreement and a legally justiciable one).
  #127  
Old 06-23-2019, 09:52 AM
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Why would anyone want to preside over this slow-moving disaster? I picture the Titanic heading straight towards an iceberg and not even trying to steer away.
Boris will blame the disaster on others: the EU, Remainers, the Labour party, the Irish government, Theresa May...
  #128  
Old 06-25-2019, 04:14 PM
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Anyone see Johnson's interview today? With TalkRadio? Talking about model buses?

Jesus.
  #129  
Old 06-25-2019, 06:20 PM
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Boris - a sort of charming Trump


Boris Johnson is the politician who lost £40 million of taxpayers' money on an imaginary bridge.

His policies are:

1. To negotiate a new deal with the European Union (EU).

The EU has stated there will be no new deal.
Of course Boris could bring his 'renowned' diplomatic skills to bear. Shame he was sacked as Foreign Secretary for being a buffoon.


2. To depart the EU by Oct 31 (deal or no-deal.)

The UK parliament has voted against no-deal (and see the Irish border question below...)

3. No difficulty with the Irish border question.

Boris claims there is a 'technical solution' if no-deal goes ahead.

After 3 years of discussion, nobody else thinks there is. There is agreement that it will be a disaster if there is no solution.

His campaign style is to avoid answering questions or any debating.
He has told many lies.
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  #130  
Old 06-25-2019, 07:07 PM
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Boris Johnson is the politician who lost £40 million of taxpayers' money on an imaginary bridge.

His policies are:

1. To negotiate a new deal with the European Union (EU).

The EU has stated there will be no new deal.
Of course Boris could bring his 'renowned' diplomatic skills to bear. Shame he was sacked as Foreign Secretary for being a buffoon.


2. To depart the EU by Oct 31 (deal or no-deal.)

The UK parliament has voted against no-deal (and see the Irish border question below...)

3. No difficulty with the Irish border question.

Boris claims there is a 'technical solution' if no-deal goes ahead.

After 3 years of discussion, nobody else thinks there is. There is agreement that it will be a disaster if there is no solution.

His campaign style is to avoid answering questions or any debating.
He has told many lies.
Agreed. What, then, are the Tories thinking? Why does he have so much support within the party? Help me understand their thinking, even if I'm never going to agree with it..
  #131  
Old 06-25-2019, 08:51 PM
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I picture the Titanic heading straight towards an iceberg and not even trying to steer away.
Yes, but to run with the analogy, from Boris's perspective, it was the steering away (and glancing blow) which sunk the ship. If Titanic hits it straight on the crash is survivable.
  #132  
Old 06-25-2019, 09:44 PM
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I'm a little unclear about what Parliament voting against "no deal" actually does, apart from ensure that they're committed to keep talking and voting on the issue. If the deadline (Sept 29?) comes and goes, and they haven't actually signed a deal, and the EU doesn't give them another extension, "no deal" will just happen all by itself.

Which presumably Boris is fine with...
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Old 06-25-2019, 10:19 PM
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Agreed. What, then, are the Tories thinking? Why does he have so much support within the party? Help me understand their thinking, even if I'm never going to agree with it..
It's not so much thinking as feeling. To the extent that there's any thinking going on, it's largely thinking about how to assauage feelings.

Within the parliamentary party, probably a majority of members do not believe that a successful, beneficial Brexit is possible. All Brexits are more or less shitty for the UK, but for the Tory party not to deliver Brexit at this point would be political suicide. On the whole, their Brexit objective would be to seek a less shitty Brexit rather than a more shitty one, but this objective is subordinated to two others - first, deliver Brexit in a way that doesn't fracture the Tory party and, secondly, deliver Brexit in a way that preserves some shred of a chance that the Tory party can win the next election.

In short, they're putting the interests of the party ahead of the interests of the country. So the objective is not the lesast shitty Brexit, but the Brexit whose shittiness can most plausibly be blamed on someone other than the government that implements the Brexit. In tha context, the party's interests are best served by choosing a leader who has the presentational and other skills to distance the party from the consequences of the shitty Brexit they are going to implement. Hence, a personab;e, plausible rogue is desirable, even if his Brexit policy is, viewed in objective terms in the light of the national interest, incoherent at best and disastrous at worst.
  #134  
Old 06-25-2019, 10:25 PM
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I'm a little unclear about what Parliament voting against "no deal" actually does, apart from ensure that they're committed to keep talking and voting on the issue. If the deadline (Sept 29?) comes and goes, and they haven't actually signed a deal, and the EU doesn't give them another extension, "no deal" will just happen all by itself.

Which presumably Boris is fine with...
The deadline is October 31. If, by that date, the UK hasn't (a) ratified the Withdrawal Agreement, (b) sought and obtained an extension of time from the EU or (c) reovoked the UK's notice of intention to leave, you're quite right; the UK leaves without a deal. Parliament can repeat till its blue in the fact that they don't like this or don't accept it but none of that means anything at all unless they are willing to take or require the government to take one of the above actions.

People assume that, because parliament doesn't want a no-deal Brexit, when push comes to shove they will take one of those actions, but I don't think that's a given. There is no agreement on which action to take, for one thing. And parliament's obvious reluctance to take any action until the last minute, coupled with a degree of wishful thinking about when "the last minute" actually is, might well mean that they defer making a choice until it is, in practical terms, too late to make a choice.
  #135  
Old 06-26-2019, 01:56 AM
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Anyone see Johnson's interview today? With TalkRadio? Talking about model buses?

Jesus.
The wheels of the bus are falling off, falling off, falling off... 🎶


There is definitely a sense that Johnson is losing his touch. People are laughing at him, not with him over this, and over the release of the photo with Carrie Symonds.

The reason people support him is that he tells them what they want to hear in a positive, upbeat way, and appears to be intelligent and charming. (At least, a stupid person's idea of intelligent and charming.) But now he is avoiding answering any questions at all, just like Theresa May. He is saying nothing, he is not upbeat. He is refusing to answer a question 23 times in one interview. There was nothing feel-good about those interviews. He is not the same self-confident person he was.

To me, the strangest thing is that the Telegraph and the Daily Mail have been running articles critical of him. It seems that some powerful people on the right have decided they prefer Hunt to Johnson.

Whether all this will make any difference among Tory Party voters, I don't know. Probably it won't. But after he becomes PM, it will undermine his ability to get any support at all from Parliament or the public.
  #136  
Old 06-26-2019, 02:20 AM
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As the Independent points out:

Quote:
What is stranger than a man who paints models of buses? One who won’t tell you how many children he has, for a start.

From the Guardian:

Quote:
The round of broadcast interviews – including one in which Johnson sparked ridicule and suspicion about the veracity of his claim to relax by making models of buses with wooden crates – has been watched with incredulity by political communications experts.

Lord Wood of Anfield, the Labour peer and political strategist, said that Johnson’s interview with the BBC’s Laura Kuenssberg broadcast on Monday night made him immediately question his “match fitness”.

“He seems convinced that his path to No 10 is assured if he says nothing of interest and lets the party machine and arithmetic do its work,” he said.

“But saying nothing for reasons of discipline has tipped over into looking like he has nothing to say. This is a massive problem for a frontrunner.”

Wood suggests that a campaign full of “bons mots and memorable phrases” would have been much more effective at keeping unwelcome scrutiny away from Johnson’s door. Instead, a seeming reluctance to stand up and fight might be providing uncomfortable reminders of May to the Tory faithful.
  #137  
Old 06-26-2019, 09:02 AM
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I'll tell you why the Tories favour him as leader. Because he'll ally with Farage in a future election, that's why.

We're heading for a BXP/Tory coalition. We're in serious danger.
  #138  
Old 07-23-2019, 07:30 AM
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So, Boris.


Interesting times.
  #139  
Old 07-23-2019, 07:36 AM
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Is "being daunted" (as opposed to undaunted) a Britishism? Because Boris's insistence that he and his party are not "daunted" would seem somewhat clever if it came from an otherwise clever man, but from his mouth it sounds like a Trumpism.
  #140  
Old 07-23-2019, 07:38 AM
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Dude!

An energised dud...
  #141  
Old 07-23-2019, 07:42 AM
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Is "being daunted" (as opposed to undaunted) a Britishism? Because Boris's insistence that he and his party are not "daunted" would seem somewhat clever if it came from an otherwise clever man, but from his mouth it sounds like a Trumpism.
Perfectly normal usage - even in America, I think.
  #142  
Old 07-23-2019, 08:26 AM
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"Prime Minister Boris Johnson" still seems like a punchline. Mock The Week is going to be comedy gold for the foreseeable future.

SMH.
  #143  
Old 07-23-2019, 09:35 AM
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"Prime Minister Boris Johnson" still seems like a punchline. Mock The Week is going to be comedy gold for the foreseeable future.

SMH.
US elects Trump. UK says "hold my beer."
  #144  
Old 07-23-2019, 09:40 AM
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Is "being daunted" (as opposed to undaunted) a Britishism? Because Boris's insistence that he and his party are not "daunted" would seem somewhat clever if it came from an otherwise clever man, but from his mouth it sounds like a Trumpism.
"Daunt" is a normal word, and "undaunted" simply means "not daunted".
  #145  
Old 07-23-2019, 10:16 AM
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I see the UK just got clowned. Is it just me, or does this guy remind anyone else of Randy Quaid's character from "Kingpin"?
  #146  
Old 07-23-2019, 11:11 AM
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So at some point Theresa May will trot off to the Palace to tender her resignation and Boris will follow shortly thereafter to ask to form a government - which he must be able to demonstrate he can do. Which means he needs the DUP onboard.

And what ransom will the DUP demand this time around? Arlene Foster is likely to be in a foul mood for certain reasons and may well be wanting Boris to focus on getting devolution restored in NI - her last chance to try and stop the evil gays and babykillers - at a time when he should be focused on making Brexit work (neither of which he will be able to achieve).

UK weather forecast from now until October: short showers of shit.
  #147  
Old 07-23-2019, 11:20 AM
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And what ransom will the DUP demand this time around? Arlene Foster is likely to be in a foul mood for certain reasons
hijack

The sidebar on that paged linked to this article about Johnson being elected by tory party members. That's totally expected right? Because the article makes it sound like Johnson lacks a mandate, but I can't imagine that he has any less of one than any previous PM.
  #148  
Old 07-23-2019, 11:30 AM
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hijack

The sidebar on that paged linked to this article about Johnson being elected by tory party members. That's totally expected right? Because the article makes it sound like Johnson lacks a mandate, but I can't imagine that he has any less of one than any previous PM.
Point is, his position as Prime Minister has not been put to the country - clearly, we don't directly vote for the PM (unless you live in his constituency), but in reality, we vote knowing who we're pushing into that high office by the party we choose.

Until Boris calls a general election, he does not, truly, have the mandate of the people in his decisions. It's one of the reasons May called an election shortly into her tenure - so she could go to the European negotiating table with a clear mandate from The People. Of course it back fired on her. And here we are.
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Old 07-23-2019, 11:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Inner Stickler View Post
hijack

The sidebar on that paged linked to this article about Johnson being elected by tory party members. That's totally expected right? Because the article makes it sound like Johnson lacks a mandate, but I can't imagine that he has any less of one than any previous PM.
He has the same theoretical mandate as May, yes - which, because of Theresa's ill-advised early election and loss of Tory seats, required a supply arrangement with the DUP to keep the government in place. That support can be withdrawn at Ms Foster's whim (more or less); Boris can't take it for granted.

I suspect the DUP will stay on board but will want something more for their troubles [sic]. A billion quid just doesn't last as long as it used to.
  #150  
Old 07-23-2019, 11:43 AM
Unreconstructed Man is offline
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Originally Posted by wguy123 View Post
US elects Trump. UK says "hold my beer."
I have to make a small objection, here. Boris is an idiot by the standards of the British political class. Trump is an idiot by the standards of idiots. Like, if all the world’s village idiots got together on a mission to track down the biggest, brashest, ball-achingly boneheaded dumbfuck imaginable, their search would end when they found Donald Trump.

Boris is basically a walking embodiment of the Peter Principle. In a sane world, he probably wouldn’t have risen beyond the rank of mid-level civil servant, and he’d probably have done a halfway decent job. If Trump wasn’t a Trump, he’d be packing boxes during the day and getting drunk on vodka in plastic bottles at night.

That said, I’ve no faith that Boris is up to the task of running the country. I give him two years before he’s kicked out, and that’s being charitable.
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