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  #51  
Old 06-27-2019, 05:11 PM
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MichaelEmouse and Banquet Bear need to get a room and sort/hug this out.
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"I did not mean that Conservatives are generally stupid; I meant, that stupid persons are generally Conservative. I believe that to be so obvious and undeniable a fact that I hardly think any hon. Gentleman will question it." ~John Stuart Mill

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  #52  
Old 06-27-2019, 06:31 PM
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That's surprising to hear because The Economist puts Biden as having the highest probability of getting the Democratic nomination. They may be wrong, of course. Here's a 6 minute clip which does a better job of explaining their reasoning than I can: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DusjM-_lnfk
Obviously I am basing what I think Biden will do this time around soley on what he's done in past presidential runs: nothing. And he may have the highest probability now, but obviously this cannot be based on how he campaigns nationally, since he has never been at the top of the ticket. Sure, people in Delaware loved him, because he was Senator there for what, 30+ years? He knew how to bring home the bacon. But none of that experience translated to national support for the presidency then, and it won't now just because he's been Veep for eight years.

Anyway, off to watch the clip...
  #53  
Old 06-27-2019, 06:33 PM
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Just watched the Biden portion at the beginning. Heard all that before. Nothing to see there. Moving on.

Last edited by Fiddle Peghead; 06-27-2019 at 06:35 PM.
  #54  
Old 06-27-2019, 09:32 PM
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Just watched the Biden portion at the beginning. Heard all that before. Nothing to see there. Moving on.
Biden is playing the "don't lose" game. Give up a few points, don't risk anything play. He is ahead in the polls so he will sort of flop around, careful to never take a position.

Fuck him. If you like Biden you're a millionaire or need your head checked.
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  #55  
Old 06-28-2019, 12:39 AM
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Biden is awful. He choked on every goddamn question in that debate. I can't believe I actually thought he was the best Democratic contender...earlier this year I was singing the guy's praises, that's before I saw his "performance" tonight. I'm convinced now. He's pathetic. His heart is not in this....or, if that is his heart that we're seeing, it's not powerful enough to get this job done, full stop. He needs to get the fuck out of the way.

Buttigieg was calm, cool, collected, and had coherent and articulate answers to every question; he knocked it out of the park. I already liked him but after tonight I like him 10x more.

Biden I want NOTHING to do with, as far as I am concerned he is an old, lame horse who should be put out to pasture.
  #56  
Old 06-28-2019, 01:59 AM
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After watching both debates I could see a Harris/Buttigieg or Harris/Castro ticket emerging but I've become concerned Biden doesn't have it in him to get this done.
  #57  
Old 06-28-2019, 03:04 PM
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No idea if Biden will have staying power in the race. It's all a function of how much real Democratic primary voters differ from the 'woke' voice of the Democratic Party on the internet. And how much the non-woke real life primary voters think Biden is more electable v Trump than the others (is he really? I'm not saying he is, since I don't know).

But *if* Biden were to prevail he'd virtually certainly name a female and/or non-white running mate. Buttigieg's sexual orientation is not enough in the identity politics sweepstakes. There will be less than no reason to include him if his image with black Democrats solidifies as negative.
  #58  
Old 06-28-2019, 03:27 PM
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"Woke" vs "real" doesn't have anything to do with how Biden would do in the election. It's all about the fact that he seems old, tired, confused, non-authoritative, and weaselly. I had high hopes for the guy, I did. His performance in that debate - if it is any indication of how he will continue to perform, and I don't see why it wouldn't be, since he is only getting older and more tired - suggests to me that he is both unable to properly stand up to Trump in the debates, and unable to inspire the energy and motivation of voters to turn out. He's awful.
  #59  
Old 06-28-2019, 04:17 PM
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Buttigieg was calm, cool, collected, and had coherent and articulate answers to every question; he knocked it out of the park. I already liked him but after tonight I like him 10x more.

Biden I want NOTHING to do with, as far as I am concerned he is an old, lame horse who should be put out to pasture.
He seems like he would be extremely skillful as countering Trump's insults. Everytime Trump went low, Pete would make a fool out of him with a clever rhetorical judo throw. It would be worth watching as a comedy show. It would look like Jimmy Carr handling a drunk heckler. People would laugh at Trump which would cause him to get ever more huffy and puffy but he wouldn't blow anyone away.

Last edited by MichaelEmouse; 06-28-2019 at 04:18 PM.
  #60  
Old 06-28-2019, 08:40 PM
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Biden is awful. He choked on every goddamn question in that debate. I can't believe I actually thought he was the best Democratic contender...earlier this year I was singing the guy's praises, that's before I saw his "performance" tonight. I'm convinced now. He's pathetic. His heart is not in this....or, if that is his heart that we're seeing, it's not powerful enough to get this job done, full stop. He needs to get the fuck out of the way.

Buttigieg was calm, cool, collected, and had coherent and articulate answers to every question; he knocked it out of the park. I already liked him but after tonight I like him 10x more.

Biden I want NOTHING to do with, as far as I am concerned he is an old, lame horse who should be put out to pasture.
I also had been favoring Biden until I saw his performance last night. It wasn't his policy positions or general temperament--just that he genuinely appeared physically, and perhaps mentally and/or emotionally, unfit to campaign for or be President.

That being said, there is a lot at play here that I am not privy to. It's possible that Biden stays in the race far longer than might seem prudent or sensible in order to deflect Trump's Shit-Missiles from the eventual nominee and other contenders.

Who knows?

But yeah. I like Uncle Joe as a man but he doesn't have it. It's gone. I can see why he took a while to decide on running. He knew his tank was on empty. Dr. Jill, too.
  #61  
Old 06-29-2019, 02:52 PM
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Frank Bruni in the New York Times wrote an article naming Harris-Buttigieg "the dream ticket."
  #62  
Old 06-29-2019, 03:35 PM
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I could see maybe a gay VP but in this case he also has the problem of being very young and his current job as mayor of a smaller city is not that impressive. He is probably a lock as a cabinet member if a Dem wins in 2020.
This.

I think Buttigeig will make a fantastic cabinet member. He'll need some more time to rally for president in the future. He's young, so let's prime him. I'm leaning towards Biden/Warren now.
  #63  
Old 06-29-2019, 04:12 PM
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This.

I think Buttigeig will make a fantastic cabinet member. He'll need some more time to rally for president in the future. He's young, so let's prime him. I'm leaning towards Biden/Warren now.
I'd really like to see the Buttigieg vs. Pence debate.
  #64  
Old 06-29-2019, 04:33 PM
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I'm leaning towards Biden/Warren now.
So you're a Republican then?

A ticket composed of not one but TWO old, white, East Coasters, neither with much personal charisma - that's a ticket straight to hell.
  #65  
Old 06-29-2019, 04:49 PM
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This.

I think Buttigeig will make a fantastic cabinet member. He'll need some more time to rally for president in the future. He's young, so let's prime him. I'm leaning towards Biden/Warren now.
We know from the last election that experience isn’t important for winning. They might be important for governing but not for winning. For winning, the only thing that matters is likability and charisma. Mayor Pete has shitloads of both. Even the people who don’t like him say so. Think about that. Even the people who don’t like the guy say he’s likeable.

They’re not saying that about any other candidate, far as I’m aware. Therefore, Mayor Pete is the most likely to win, and should be the nominee.

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  #66  
Old 06-29-2019, 04:53 PM
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Frank Bruni in the New York Times wrote an article naming Harris-Buttigieg "the dream ticket."
I’d prefer Buttigieg-Harris, but only because I think that combination is a little more likely to win. Failing that, I’d be fairly happy with Harris-Buttigieg.

The only concern I’d have is that Harris would need to walk back her whole “get rid of private insurance” thing. Otherwise it’ll be death-panels all over again. Buttigieg wouldn’t have that problem.
  #67  
Old 06-29-2019, 05:19 PM
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So you're a Republican then?

A ticket composed of not one but TWO old, white, East Coasters, neither with much personal charisma - that's a ticket straight to hell.
Yeah. Charisma matters. Maybe it ought not matter but it does. One can either accept that and work with it or double down on 2016. The insistence on only taking into account factors one wishes were important reminds me of Lysenkoism.
  #68  
Old 06-29-2019, 06:10 PM
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So you're a Republican then?

A ticket composed of not one but TWO old, white, East Coasters, neither with much personal charisma - that's a ticket straight to hell.
White + older/experienced + East Coasters = Republican. Got it.

I think that these two people would be absolutely essential as to setting up a progressive government with younger progressive people towards a better future.

I also think that if you want to nominate the most diverse candidates, most fence sitters will simply look at their stocks, see if they dropped, if they didn't they're voting for Trump.

And nothing is more important than getting each and every republican out of office and filling the spaces that are empty with people like Harris, Buttigeig, Beto, etc. I honestly believe the younger and lesser experienced candidates the Dems nominate will seal another four years of the world's dumbest businessman to continue making this country look worthless.
  #69  
Old 06-29-2019, 06:49 PM
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The only concern I’d have is that Harris would need to walk back her whole “get rid of private insurance” thing.
She already has.
  #70  
Old 06-29-2019, 07:02 PM
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White + older/experienced + East Coasters = Republican. Got it.
My point isn't that Warren and Biden are Republicans. It's that a Warren/Biden ticket would lose. Which is what the Republicans want.
  #71  
Old 06-29-2019, 07:29 PM
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My point isn't that Warren and Biden are Republicans. It's that a Warren/Biden ticket would lose. Which is what the Republicans want.
And you think a Buttigeig/Harris ticket would win? See, I think that maybe 6 states would go blue on that. That's a real GOP dream. Whoever gets rid of this administration that's NOT GOP will be much better guaranteed.

Last edited by Locrian; 06-29-2019 at 07:33 PM.
  #72  
Old 07-01-2019, 03:51 PM
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"...none of [Biden's] experience translated to national support for the presidency then, and it won't now just because he's been Veep for eight years.
New CNN Poll (10 point decline for Uncle Joe)

Tick, tock. Tick, tock. Tick, tock...
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