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  #51  
Old 07-24-2019, 09:35 AM
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I like these questions from Rep Jeffries, he's trying real hard to get Mueller to put the pieces together in his own words. He's going to run out of time though.
Me too, except for the part where he cut of Mueller. It was one of the only times so far Mueller started elaborating on his testimony.
  #52  
Old 07-24-2019, 09:37 AM
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Sara Huckabee tweets:
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What’s been clear to all but the liberal media is this was a partisan investigation run by Democrats out to destroy @realDonaldTrump with Mueller as the figurehead. Thank you House Democrats for calling today’s hearing and exposing the truth for all Americans to see
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  #53  
Old 07-24-2019, 09:39 AM
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Hakeem Jeffries is one of the next generation of Democratic House leaders, and if I had to guess the next Democratic speaker after Pelosi, I'd guess it will be him.
  #54  
Old 07-24-2019, 09:40 AM
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The Republican before Democrat Cicilline (I didn't catch his name) seemed to follow a line of questioning that hurt Trump, no? (IT was about the OLC decision not to indict a sitting President.)
  #55  
Old 07-24-2019, 09:42 AM
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From CNN live coverage:
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Robert Mueller is trying to be careful and keeping his answers as close to the report as possible, according to two sources who are close to him.

Some of the questioners are using rapid-fire or long-winded questions to try to have him depart from the report’s language.

Republicans in particular have used their time to try to impeach the witness.

The Mueller style to try to keep it dry and not provide fodder for the ongoing political fights doesn’t do well in this kind of hearing.
He won't take anyone's bait. Sound bites live forever.
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  #56  
Old 07-24-2019, 09:46 AM
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...and then it will go to the Senate and be defeated and thump can claim a WIN!
He's already gotten his win, and proclaimed it to the treetops.

What was absent when the Mueller Report came out, that made it convincing in the public mind, was the absence of any pushback from the Dems. Trump and the GOP were claiming exoneration, and the Dems were kinda shrugging...Trump and the GOP won because they showed up and the Dems didn't. With respect to public opinion, it's as if there's a bipartisan consensus that Trump hasn't done anything all that bad, which is the worst place public opinion can be.

The point of impeachment is that, no matter how the Senate vote comes down (spoiler: it won't), the advocates of impeachment would make the case for impeachment with the nation watching: first in the Judiciary Committee, then on the floor of the House. (And then on the floor of the Senate, if there's actually a trial, but McConnell may be evil but he's not stupid: there won't be one.) No matter what Trump claims then, he will look a lot worse then than he does now.
  #57  
Old 07-24-2019, 09:48 AM
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The Republican before Democrat Cicilline (I didn't catch his name) seemed to follow a line of questioning that hurt Trump, no? (IT was about the OLC decision not to indict a sitting President.)
Yes. I think he was trying to say that it was improper for Mueller to say all of those bad things about Trump if he wasn't going to indict him, but all he did was reiterate that Mueller said a bunch of bad things about Trump and then wasn't able to indict him. Seems like a blunder.

I liked Rep Cicilline's questioning too, in the same vein as Rep Jeffries if maybe a bit sloppier. I think Ds need to continue to try and get Mueller to say in his own words that Trump committed obstruction. He probably won't, but he does seem to be receptive now to agreeing with all of the elements.
  #58  
Old 07-24-2019, 09:49 AM
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Solid soundbite from a Republican questioner, no less:

https://twitter.com/joshscampbell/st...38990003036161

Congressman: "Could you charge the President with a crime after he left office?"

Mueller: "Yes."

Congressman (Buck, I think): "You could charge the President with obstruction of justice after he left office?"

Mueller: "Yes."

Last edited by iiandyiiii; 07-24-2019 at 09:52 AM.
  #59  
Old 07-24-2019, 09:51 AM
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I gotta say, if the D strategy is really just to get sound bites of Mueller confirming parts of the report, this is going to be real disappointing for Democrats. IMHO. I don't think it's going to have the effect on public opinion any of you are suggesting.
I agree that today's hearing won't move the needle much on public opinion. The time for that was back when the Mueller Report came out, before people had opinions about it in the first place.

But it might get a few dozen Dem Congresscritters off the fence, by giving them enough backing to make them feel comfortable with actually, you know, taking a stand. (A scary thing for far too many Dems.) That's about as much as I'm hoping for right now.
  #60  
Old 07-24-2019, 09:56 AM
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Ted Lieu: "The reason you did not indict the sitting President was because of the OLC memo?"

Mueller: "That is correct".

(from memory, just a few moments ago...)
  #61  
Old 07-24-2019, 10:02 AM
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I just checked out the Fox News website. They are calling Mueller 'Flustered' and saying he 'blanked' on Fusion GPS.
  #62  
Old 07-24-2019, 10:06 AM
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Your average American, isn't going to pay any more attention to this hearing than they did to the actual reporting of the report when it came out months ago.

Congressman: Mr. Mueller, in your report you said, '~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~', What did you mean by that?

Mueller: I refer to my report.



Both sides will declare winning points when this is over. But I highly doubt there will be any substantive change in the general populaces perception of things.

Pelosi is biding her time to initiate impeachment hearings. I suspect that they will occur prior to the party conventions in 2020. There will be no expectation of a conviction by the Senate, but it will be a big splash during the election news cycle, leading up to the general election.
  #63  
Old 07-24-2019, 10:08 AM
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Solid soundbite from a Republican questioner, no less:

https://twitter.com/joshscampbell/st...38990003036161

Congressman: "Could you charge the President with a crime after he left office?"

Mueller: "Yes."

Congressman (Buck, I think): "You could charge the President with obstruction of justice after he left office?"

Mueller: "Yes."
Beautiful!
  #64  
Old 07-24-2019, 10:21 AM
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Did the GOP send a memo this morning instructing its Congressional members to step all over their own dicks?
  #65  
Old 07-24-2019, 10:34 AM
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A huge thank you to everyone watching and relaying information tooth's thread! I'm at work and so can't watch; y'all are very much appreciated!
  #66  
Old 07-24-2019, 10:39 AM
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This.

There will NOT be anything new. But having Mueller say it out loud, or at least monosyllabically answer questions, IS new. And important.
In what way is it important? It won't change public opinion. It won't change the mind of anyone in Congress.
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  #67  
Old 07-24-2019, 10:43 AM
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In what way is it important? It won't change public opinion. It won't change the mind of anyone in Congress.
As noted above, it might convince some of the fence-sitters to (pardon my mixed metaphor) excrete or get off the john.
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  #68  
Old 07-24-2019, 10:47 AM
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Ted Lieu: "The reason you did not indict the sitting President was because of the OLC memo?"

Mueller: "That is correct".

(from memory, just a few moments ago...)
LIEU: "To recap what we've heard, we have heard today that the president ordered former White House counsel Don McGahn to fire you. The president ordered Don McGahn to then cover that up and create a false paper trail, and now we've heard the president ordered Corey Lewandowski to tell Jeff Sessions to limit your investigation so that he -- you stop investigating the president. I believe a reasonable person looking at these facts could conclude that all three elements of the crime of obstruction of justice have been met, and I would like to ask you the reason again that you did not indict Donald Trump is because of OLC opinion stating that you cannot indict a sitting president, correct?"

MUELLER: "That is correct."
  #69  
Old 07-24-2019, 10:53 AM
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"Fake news! Liberal socialists! MAGA!"
  #70  
Old 07-24-2019, 10:57 AM
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I wish that one of these last people would say, "You've been interrupted and cut off several times by my Republican colleagues, when you were attempting to clarify issues of conflict of interest. What were you attempting to say?"
  #71  
Old 07-24-2019, 11:02 AM
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Google news feed relaying a Faux headline: Mueller admits he was 'friends' with Comey during heated House hearing
  #72  
Old 07-24-2019, 11:25 AM
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Biggest moments of the morning, IMO:

Ted Lieu getting Mueller to agree that the reason he didn't indict Trump for obstruction of justice was the OLC opinion that says a sitting president can't be indicted.

Republican Ken Buck asking Mueller if the President could be indicted for obstruction of justice after he leaves office, and Mueller answering with a clear "yes".

Early on, Nadler asking if the report exonerates the President, and Mueller answering with a clear "no".

I think the first one is biggest. All in all, close to as good for the Democrats as could be reasonably hoped for, IMO.

EDIT: Also, Rep. Richmond getting Mueller to confirm that the President asked staff to falsify records relevant to the investigation.

Last edited by iiandyiiii; 07-24-2019 at 11:28 AM.
  #73  
Old 07-24-2019, 11:26 AM
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A four sided die and this list could have stood in for Mueller who came across a bit deaf and senile.

1: it’s in the report
2: can you repeat the question ?
3: correct
4: it’s in the report

This is just a bit of political theater that will most likely have no effect.
  #74  
Old 07-24-2019, 11:30 AM
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A four sided die and this list could have stood in for Mueller who came across a bit deaf and senile.

1: it’s in the report
2: can you repeat the question ?
3: correct
4: it’s in the report

This is just a bit of political theater that will most likely have no effect.
Perhaps. Do you agree with iiandyiiii's summary just above yours?
  #75  
Old 07-24-2019, 11:31 AM
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Sara Huckabee tweets:
What I've learned over the last few years is that when Huckabee starts a statement with "It's clear...." it's time to put on the waders.
  #76  
Old 07-24-2019, 11:33 AM
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Google news feed relaying a Faux headline: Mueller admits he was 'friends' with Comey during heated House hearing
This kind of thing is why Mueller confined his answers to as few words as possible, repeated over and over again. Hard to make those answers into meaty sound bites. But now impossible, clearly.
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Last edited by ThelmaLou; 07-24-2019 at 11:34 AM.
  #77  
Old 07-24-2019, 11:38 AM
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Do Fauxnuts accept Reuters as a legitimate news organization? Or is Reuters a bunch of lefty socialists?
Anyway, according to Reuters:
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Former Special Counsel Robert Mueller on Wednesday told a dramatic U.S. congressional hearing he had not exonerated President Donald Trump of obstruction of justice and indicated he would have sought his indictment were it not for a Justice Department policy against bringing charges against a sitting president.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...-idUSKCN1UJ0DF
  #78  
Old 07-24-2019, 11:40 AM
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Do Fauxnuts accept Reuters as a legitimate news organization? Or is Reuters a bunch of lefty socialists?
Anyway, according to Reuters:
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Former Special Counsel Robert Mueller on Wednesday told a dramatic U.S. congressional hearing he had not exonerated President Donald Trump of obstruction of justice and indicated he would have sought his indictment were it not for a Justice Department policy against bringing charges against a sitting president.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...-idUSKCN1UJ0DF
Exactly -- that's the kind of news story and headline I was hoping for, from a political perspective. I don't anticipate a big sea change, but this could help on the margins and with uninformed voters.
  #79  
Old 07-24-2019, 11:46 AM
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Perhaps. Do you agree with iiandyiiii's summary just above yours?
I could only stand 45 minutes of the monotony, so I didn’t catch that part. That said, the implication of you can impeach seems clear.
  #80  
Old 07-24-2019, 11:51 AM
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Bannon famously, and correctly apparently, was quoted as saying about Mueller, "Never send a marine to do a hit man’s job.”

Mueller is too honorable to do the job fully here. When one side is playing by the most strict interpretation of the rules, and the other side is just openly cheating, it's not great.
  #81  
Old 07-24-2019, 11:53 AM
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Trump's attorney says Mueller's testimony shows "troubling deficiencies" in his investigation
From CNN's Evan Perez From CNN's live blog
Quote:
President Trump’s attorney Jay Sekulow criticized Robert Mueller's testimony this morning.... “This morning’s testimony exposed the troubling deficiencies of the special counsel’s investigation," Sekulow said...."It is also clear that the special counsel conducted his two-year investigation unimpeded...."
He conducted the investigation unimpeded. And that was a bad thing??
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  #82  
Old 07-24-2019, 11:59 AM
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[B]He conducted the investigation unimpeded. And that was a bad thing??
ThelmaLou, the Republicans (the Justice Committee members in the hearing, and now Trump's legal team) have been trying to push the fact that Mueller wasn't actually fired and his team was "allowed" to operate to the conclusion of the investigation as evidence against obstruction of justice. That's why Sekulow emphasizes "unimpeded"; he's trying to imply "unobstructed".

(Hey I didn't say it was a clever ploy, just that this is one of the GOP strategies...)

Last edited by xenophon41; 07-24-2019 at 11:59 AM. Reason: spellen
  #83  
Old 07-24-2019, 11:59 AM
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Ted Lieu: “You did not indict Donald Trump is because of the OLC opinion stating that you cannot indict a sitting president, correct?”

MUELLER: “That is correct.”


Well, despite all the Republicans trying to claim this is all a hoax and the Democrats are humiliating themselves here, this is the bottom line.

If Trump was not president, or if the Justice Department guidelines were not in place...

TRUMP WOULD HAVE BEEN INDICTED.
  #84  
Old 07-24-2019, 12:00 PM
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Intel hearings just starting. Adam Schiff going right into the treason (without that word) of even considering working with Russia to undermine an election.
  #85  
Old 07-24-2019, 12:02 PM
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ThelmaLou, the Republicans (the Justice Committee members in the hearing, and now Trump's legal team) have been trying to push the fact that Mueller wasn't actually fired and his team was "allowed" to operate to the conclusion of the investigation as evidence against obstruction of justice. That's why Sekulow emphasizes "unimpeded"; he's trying to imply "unobstructed".

(Hey I didn't say it was a clever ploy, just that this is one of the GOP strategies...)
My bad for trying to make sense of anything coming from the WH.
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  #86  
Old 07-24-2019, 12:07 PM
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Nunes. Impressive. I couldn't even see Trump's lips moving.
  #87  
Old 07-24-2019, 12:08 PM
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Trump's attorney says Mueller's testimony shows "troubling deficiencies" in his investigation
From CNN's Evan Perez From CNN's live blog

He conducted the investigation unimpeded. And that was a bad thing??
Also, it was only unimpeded because certain White House staffers declined to act on Trump's numerous efforts to impede it.

That was quite clear from the testimony.

Unfortunately, I doubt this moves the needle much. FOX, the official administration propaganda arm, will pull the old smoke 'n' mirrors act, ignoring the actual content while showing endless clips of Mueller's halting delivery and refusal to answer questions that a) had nothing to do with his remit or b) might affect ongoing investigations of prosecutions. And the marching MAGA morons will buy it.

Last edited by El_Kabong; 07-24-2019 at 12:09 PM.
  #88  
Old 07-24-2019, 12:11 PM
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The real problem, for anyone hoping that today's hearing will lead to impeachment, is that the House goes on vacation Friday, and won't be back in session until after Labor Day. Then, even if the Dems really wanted to do impeachment, they'd have to decide between (a) a rushed impeachment inquiry, or (b) an impeachment proceeding that would run well into next year's primary season.

They won't like either choice, and that will give fence-sitters plenty of reason to fold.

(And that's why they needed to begin this inquiry in April.)
  #89  
Old 07-24-2019, 12:15 PM
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Mueller just slapped down the Dems biggest win from this morning. It was obvious he had misspoken, though.

Last edited by Monocracy; 07-24-2019 at 12:16 PM.
  #90  
Old 07-24-2019, 12:18 PM
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I like Nunes' line here --

"Manafort lied?"

"Yes"

"Flynn lied?"

"Yes, he was convicted of lying"

And so on. Shows that Trump chose to surround himself with criminal liars.
  #91  
Old 07-24-2019, 12:21 PM
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Mueller just slapped down the Dems biggest win from this morning. It was obvious he had misspoken, though.
Are you trying to claim that he walked back this? Because he didn't;

Ted Lieu: “You did not indict Donald Trump is because of the OLC opinion stating that you cannot indict a sitting president, correct?”

MUELLER: “That is correct.”
  #92  
Old 07-24-2019, 12:25 PM
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The full quote from Mueller:

“Now before we go to questions, I want to go back to one thing that was said this morning by Mr. Lieu, who said, and I quote, ‘You didn’t charge the president because of the OLC opinion.’ That is not the correct way to say it. As we say in the report, and as I said at the opening, we did not reach a determination as to whether the president committed a crime. With that, Mr. Chairman, I’m ready to answer questions.”
  #93  
Old 07-24-2019, 12:37 PM
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I thought Schiff made a powerful opening statement and he relied on his prosecutor's background to pepper Mueller with questions. Schiff came prepared.
  #94  
Old 07-24-2019, 12:57 PM
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One thing I'm not sure was made explicitly clear until just now, according to Mueller:

Manafort shared campaign and polling data with Kilimnik because he hoped to get paid by Russian/Ukrainian oligarchs.

Last edited by iiandyiiii; 07-24-2019 at 12:58 PM.
  #95  
Old 07-24-2019, 01:01 PM
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And... Mueller confirms that Trump tried to suborn McGahn into Perjury.

That is also a crime.
  #96  
Old 07-24-2019, 01:06 PM
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As a side thing that I wonder- Has Trump expressed any deep thoughts or philosophical musings via Twitter today?
  #97  
Old 07-24-2019, 01:08 PM
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As a side thing that I wonder- Has Trump expressed any deep thoughts or philosophical musings via Twitter today?
He's off golfing today, but yes, he has claimed that Democrats are embarrassing themselves.
  #98  
Old 07-24-2019, 01:09 PM
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Mueller hates Wikileaks! All Wikileaks for the rest of the hearing!
  #99  
Old 07-24-2019, 01:16 PM
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He's off golfing today, ...
I'll bet he's had to replace a lot of divots today. Oh, who am I kidding? I'm sure he just walks away from those as if someone else caused them.
  #100  
Old 07-24-2019, 01:16 PM
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Glenn Simpson worked for the Wall Street Journal, and then was hired by the Washington Free Beacon, a conservative newspaper, to collect information on several Republican candidates. When the Free Beacon stopped funding his investigations, the Democratic Party and the Hillary Clinton campaign picked up the funding. Fusion GPS is his company.
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