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Old 08-14-2019, 09:31 PM
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How far do you think a candidate openly campaigning with white supremacist beliefs could get today?


Just trying to get an idea of the current political climate.

Feel free to define anything in any way you wish, including their location, office (still highest possible), and platform, as long as the candidate could be considered a white supremacist by most reasonable public measure.

One reason I ask is that I wonder sometimes what the national Republican party would do if their members’ tactics, especially those in heavily red states, went to its logical conclusion. It further made me wonder if that was at all likely. Thus, this question.

Last edited by Leaper; 08-14-2019 at 09:31 PM.
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Old 08-14-2019, 10:27 PM
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They won't care. The party is pretty much there as it is, what with Make America Great Again being a dogwhistle for those who believe America stopped being great when Obama got elected.
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Old 08-14-2019, 11:14 PM
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We already have the answer to this.
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Old 08-14-2019, 11:36 PM
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If the candidate is aesthetically appealing (never underestimate the appeal of fame, good looks, a good voice, height and such things,) has a knack for rolling out a dozen zingers in every speech that make for bumper-sticker quotes, plays the "whites are reverse-discriminated against" card effectively, is helped by outside factors such as the economy or Islamic terrorism, AND goes up against an inept, SJW, dislikable type of opponent, then I think he/she could go all the way. President-Elect of the United States.
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Old 08-14-2019, 11:51 PM
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In 2016, David Duke said "I'm overjoyed to see Donald Trump and most Americans embrace most of the issues that I've championed for years."
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Old 08-15-2019, 12:07 AM
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You can be anyone. Just tell people you’re rich over and over again, be loud, say what you want and dye your skin color to a new and truly dopey-Looking skin color which people seem to like for some odd reason.
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Old 08-15-2019, 12:09 AM
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We already have the answer to this.
Gimme a T, gimme a R....
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Old 08-15-2019, 12:15 AM
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Yeah, we have Trump, but he still at least on the surface makes a token effort to pretend to care about minorities (at least to the point where his supporters pretend that he wants to do anything for them). When I said “openly,” I was thinking no dog whistles, no euphemisms or metaphors, just straight out 100% direct. Maybe not to genocide levels, but at the least to the “not afraid, perhaps even proud, to say it directly in public.”

Same with the national party. They are still too afraid to say it straight out. They may get there eventually, but not now, IMO, so this again my interest in the topic.
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Old 08-15-2019, 12:55 AM
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An open racist wouldn’t get anywhere, because the people voting for him would necessarily have to admit to themselves that they’re also racist. And most racists don’t believe themselves to be racist.
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Old 08-15-2019, 01:19 AM
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Yeah, we have Trump, but he still at least on the surface makes a token effort to pretend to care about minorities (at least to the point where his supporters pretend that he wants to do anything for them). When I said “openly,” I was thinking no dog whistles, no euphemisms or metaphors, just straight out 100% direct. Maybe not to genocide levels, but at the least to the “not afraid, perhaps even proud, to say it directly in public.”
An openly racist "I'm proud to be white supremacist" candidate might even do better than Trump at the ballot box.

There's a certain phenomenon (might have a name) whereby if you argue for Policy X halfheartedly, it will be unpopular, but if you full-out embrace Policy X full-bore, no apologies, it can be very popular - even if Policy X is a horrible thing - because people are naturally drawn towards confidence. If they see you showing genuine enthusiasm for something, then they figure there must be some validity and substance to it, otherwise why are you so confident and ardent for it?
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Old 08-15-2019, 08:25 AM
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I could see them actually getting pretty far if they focus on the "Pride" part of "White Pride". Someone who rants about minorities and throws around racial epithets likely won't get very far, because even the "I'm not racist, but..." crowd would shy away from them.

But someone who just talks about how great white people are? Who just talks about how great things would be if we didn't hold back white people? Who talks about letting the best people reap the greatest rewards? That guy could win big. "He doesn't hate minorities, he just loves his own race! What's wrong with that?"

Just play up every good thing white people have ever done, while ignoring everything bad they've ever done, and literally ignoring every non-white person out there would likely be a winning strategy.
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Old 08-15-2019, 08:31 AM
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When did Trump ever pretend to care about minorities?
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Old 08-15-2019, 08:36 AM
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You can be anyone. Just tell people you’re rich over and over again, be loud, say what you want and dye your skin color to a new and truly dopey-Looking skin color which people seem to like for some odd reason.
That color is Magnificent Orange™️.
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Old 08-15-2019, 09:09 AM
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That color is Magnificent Orange™️.
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Old 08-15-2019, 09:12 AM
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Another aspect to consider is that if someone openly and proudly claims to be an "-ist" (racist, sexist, etc.), suddenly, accusing them of it becomes a toothless attack.

The whole point of accusing someone of being racist is that they're supposed to deny it, since being racist is a bad thing. But if someone proudly embraces that label, then you're left with a "Uh....okay.....so what now then" situation.
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Old 08-15-2019, 09:17 AM
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We already have the answer to this.
Yeppers.
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Old 08-15-2019, 09:29 AM
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They won't care. The party is pretty much there as it is, what with Make America Great Again being a dogwhistle for those who believe America stopped being great when Obama got elected.
I believe it started when Clinton got elected.
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Old 08-15-2019, 09:38 AM
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There's a certain phenomenon (might have a name) whereby if you argue for Policy X halfheartedly, it will be unpopular, but if you full-out embrace Policy X full-bore, no apologies, it can be very popular - even if Policy X is a horrible thing - because people are naturally drawn towards confidence. If they see you showing genuine enthusiasm for something, then they figure there must be some validity and substance to it, otherwise why are you so confident and ardent for it?
Why, oh why, do Democrats never pick up on this basic fact about human nature?
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Old 08-15-2019, 10:22 AM
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meh

nvm

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Old 08-15-2019, 10:33 AM
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Another aspect to consider is that if someone openly and proudly claims to be an "-ist" (racist, sexist, etc.), suddenly, accusing them of it becomes a toothless attack.

The whole point of accusing someone of being racist is that they're supposed to deny it, since being racist is a bad thing. But if someone proudly embraces that label, then you're left with a "Uh....okay.....so what now then" situation.
I have always felt that this is a vastly underused strategy. Whatever one is accused of, freely and openly admit to it, no matter how outrageous or false the accusation is.

To a degree, our current occupant covertly uses this strategy. The underlying message being, "Yeah, so what are you going to do about it?" Which, as we have observed, leaves the opposition wringing their hands and furrowing their brows and being outraged and and and .......

Last edited by Icarus; 08-15-2019 at 10:34 AM.
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Old 08-15-2019, 10:41 AM
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We already have the answer to this.
Yep.
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Old 08-15-2019, 10:50 AM
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I have always felt that this is a vastly underused strategy. Whatever one is accused of, freely and openly admit to it, no matter how outrageous or false the accusation is.

To a degree, our current occupant covertly uses this strategy. The underlying message being, "Yeah, so what are you going to do about it?" Which, as we have observed, leaves the opposition wringing their hands and furrowing their brows and being outraged and and and .......

It can also be dressed up as "telling it like it is," so that it almost becomes seen as a virtue.

Last edited by Velocity; 08-15-2019 at 10:52 AM.
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Old 08-15-2019, 11:08 AM
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I believe it started when Clinton got elected.
If you were a little older, you would have seen the same effect when Reagan promoted "Morning in America" after the reputedly awful Carter years.

It appears to be axiomatic on the Right that when ever there is a D in the Whitehouse that the country needs to be "rescued" and brought back to greatness. With Obama there was the additional high dudgeon of him being, well, "not like us, donchaknow!"
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Old 08-15-2019, 11:11 AM
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I have always felt that this is a vastly underused strategy. Whatever one is accused of, freely and openly admit to it, no matter how outrageous or false the accusation is.
Having recently called out McConnell as "Moscow Mitch", I think it's high time Pelosi took a cue from LBJ and accused Trump of being a "Pig-fucker".

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To a degree, our current occupant covertly uses this strategy. The underlying message being, "Yeah, so what are you going to do about it?" Which, as we have observed, leaves the opposition wringing their hands and furrowing their brows and being outraged and and and .......
Democrats are so nice, I suspect they are secretly Canadians.
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Old 08-15-2019, 11:20 AM
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We already have the answer to this.
This is 100% correct.

We already have our answer. White supremacists won't campaign on white supremacy alone, and they will occasionally temper the rhetoric to appear palatable, but the Trump presidency has openly campaigned on white supremacy since he came down the escalator in June of 2015.
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Old 08-15-2019, 11:24 AM
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This is 100% correct.

We already have our answer. White supremacists won't campaign on white supremacy alone, and they will occasionally temper the rhetoric to appear palatable, but the Trump presidency has openly campaigned on white supremacy since he came down the escalator in June of 2015.
I still don't think this fits the OP's criteria, though. Trump is the kind of racist who doesn't really embrace the label, or is halfhearted about this stuff. He's only a 50% type whereas Leaper is asking about 100% types.

The OP is positing someone is full-bore, proud of it, I-like-to-be-called racist racist. Trump is weak sauce compared to that.
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Old 08-15-2019, 11:28 AM
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An open racist wouldn’t get anywhere, because the people voting for him would necessarily have to admit to themselves that they’re also racist. And most racists don’t believe themselves to be racist.
Most people don't want to believe they are fascists but they can be easily convinced that fascism is a legitimate alternative to democracy. Just don't call it fascism - call it alternative democracy. Same is true of racism. People are very easily tricked to fall for the illusions and fears as characterized by authoritarians.
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Old 08-15-2019, 11:30 AM
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If you were a little older, you would have seen the same effect when Reagan promoted "Morning in America" after the reputedly awful Carter years.

It appears to be axiomatic on the Right that when ever there is a D in the Whitehouse that the country needs to be "rescued" and brought back to greatness. With Obama there was the additional high dudgeon of him being, well, "not like us, donchaknow!"
Especially the 5 million Obama-Trump voters, no?
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Old 08-15-2019, 11:41 AM
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I believe it started when Clinton got elected.
Surely the downturn began earlier, when Republican paragon Richard M. Nixon—guilty of nothing more than being a lying criminal who got caught—resigned from the presidency rather than digging in his heels and telling the libs to suck it. May we never again return to such dark and shameful times.
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Old 08-15-2019, 11:43 AM
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"Openly"? He might make sheriff or town councilman, if the town was small enough.

I am pretty sure the SDMB and progressives in general have a different definition of "openly" than I do.

Regards,
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Old 08-15-2019, 11:50 AM
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If you were a little older, you would have seen the same effect when Reagan promoted "Morning in America" after the reputedly awful Carter years. ...
Yup, I missed Carter's crisis of confidence, thankfully.
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Old 08-15-2019, 11:50 AM
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I still don't think this fits the OP's criteria, though. Trump is the kind of racist who doesn't really embrace the label, or is halfhearted about this stuff. He's only a 50% type whereas Leaper is asking about 100% types.

The OP is positing someone is full-bore, proud of it, I-like-to-be-called racist racist. Trump is weak sauce compared to that.
Steve King then.
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Old 08-15-2019, 11:51 AM
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I am pretty sure the SDMB and progressives in general have a different definition of "openly" than I do.
Fair point; we do use it when we mean "obviously". Does that make a difference?
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Old 08-15-2019, 11:56 AM
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If you were a little older, you would have seen the same effect when Reagan promoted "Morning in America" after the reputedly awful Carter years.
And if you're as old as I am, you can remember when Nixon rescued America from the clutches of Lyndon Johnson.
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Old 08-15-2019, 12:04 PM
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I feel the path for a white supremacist to the White House would be the racial realist route. Don't come out and just say white people are better. Cherry pick some facts that lead to that conclusion and ignore any facts that refute your position.
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Old 08-15-2019, 12:11 PM
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Don't come out and just say white people are better. Cherry pick some facts that lead to that conclusion and ignore any facts that refute your position.
Examples:
Quote:
When Mexico sends its people, they’re not sending their best. They’re not sending you. They’re not sending you. They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists. And some, I assume, are good people.
and
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"I think Islam hates us ... We can’t allow people coming into this country who have this hatred of the United States and of people that are not Muslim.”
and many, many others.
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Old 08-15-2019, 12:29 PM
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Henceforth, this shall be my new nickname for Trump.
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Old 08-15-2019, 12:37 PM
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Examples:
Quote:
When Mexico sends its people, they’re not sending their best. They’re not sending you. They’re not sending you. They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists. And some, I assume, are good people.
and
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"I think Islam hates us ... We can’t allow people coming into this country who have this hatred of the United States and of people that are not Muslim.”
Interesting that you feel that these are examples of facts, however cherry-picked.

Regards,
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Old 08-15-2019, 12:42 PM
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Well, you can't get much more openly white supremacist than Republican congressional candidate Arthur J. Jones, who ran most recently as the only Republican candidate for Illinois' 3rd congressional district.
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His candidacy was repudiated by the Illinois Republican Party and the Republican National Committee. [...] Despite the GOP disavowing, 26.5 percent of voters still voted for him in the general election on November 6, 2018, as he lost by 47 points. [...]

Jones is a white nationalist and Holocaust denier. [...] Jones has attended many rallies commemorating Adolf Hitler or supporting white supremacy. Jones considers himself a "white racialist" [...]

In 2016 he was a supporter of Donald Trump for president. Jones said in an interview then, "I agree with a lot of what Mr. Trump has to say [...] He's his own man. I like the fact that doesn't have to go hat in hand to Jewish billionaires to get money". In February 2018, Jones nonetheless said President Trump "surrounded himself with hordes of Jews", and regrets his 2016 vote.
For a guy like that to get over a quarter of the vote is concerning, though his overall lack of success suggests that his platform's not that popular.
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Old 08-15-2019, 01:09 PM
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Interesting that you feel that these are examples of facts, however cherry-picked.
Ask the guy who stated them as facts.
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Old 08-15-2019, 01:31 PM
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George Wallace could probably get elected as Governor of Alabama. Not sure if people like Shodan consider him an "open racist."

Last edited by Richard Parker; 08-15-2019 at 01:32 PM.
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Old 08-15-2019, 03:26 PM
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A retired print shop employee sends an amused nod your way.
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Old 08-16-2019, 03:01 AM
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Steve King then.
He lost his seniority and is getting primaried, though.

And that's sort of the line between "openly" and "blatantly". Trump is blatant (what else would you call the "send them back"?) but when pressed will lie about it. And that lie, that deniability? That matters to a lot of people. They need an excuse? That gives it to them. "We're not really racists, we just think that these specific brown people should be sent back where they came from". Most Republicans are extremely racist. But, like most "polite" racists, they care deeply that they aren't thought of as "racist".

Steve King has been blatantly racist for quite some time, and anyone that cared to look could find the neo-nazi connections. Most didn't care to look - they looked for excuses instead. But then he opened his mouth too wide and went from "blatant" to "open", and now he's lost his party's support, lest he reveal just how thin that line is on some of the others.

Open white supremacists can only get so far on negative partisanship and the votes of those willing to be openly racist. Blatant white supremacists differ solely in offering those who desperately want any excuse an excuse. Motivated reasoning is one hell of a drug, and it's hard to get more motivated than "my politics haven't really been aligned with the KKK, right?"
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Old 08-16-2019, 03:16 AM
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Obviously, he could be elected President since it happened in 2016.
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Old 08-16-2019, 08:00 AM
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George Wallace could probably get elected as Governor of Alabama. Not sure if people like Shodan consider him an "open racist."
It's hard to be open when you're dead. And
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In the late 1970s, Wallace announced that he was a born-again Christian and apologized to black civil rights leaders for his past actions as a segregationist. He said that while he had once sought power and glory, he realized he needed to seek love and forgiveness.[note 2] In 1979, Wallace said of his stand in the schoolhouse door: "I was wrong. Those days are over, and they ought to be over."[66] He publicly asked for forgiveness from black people.[66][67]
Cite. And after he said that, he did get re-elected as Governor.

So no, not really an open racist.

Regards,
Shodan
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Old 08-16-2019, 10:26 AM
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So no, not really an open racist.
George Wallace is, of course, best known historically for this quote:

"I draw the line in the dust and toss the gauntlet before the feet of tyranny, and I say segregation now, segregation tomorrow, segregation forever."

Other "greatest hits" include things like "If I don't win, the n****rs are going to control this state" and "This Could Be Alabama Four Years From Now! Do You Want It?" (Referring to a picture of a white woman being menaced by black men.)

He literally ran on a segregationist platform the first time he won a gubernatorial election in Alabama. Indeed, he adopted the policy opportunistically, after his previous strategy of "not be a huge racist shitbag" failed. It's pretty hard to get more "openly racist" than that - the dude adopted new racist policies to show the racist voters that he was, in fact, that racist.

Shodan, I don't know how you define "racist", but whatever your definition is, you're clearly talking about something entriely different from what everyone else is talking about. Maybe it'd be a good idea if you gave this subject a pass.

...More on-topic, this is fundamentally the shift we see today. People back then were racist... and they wanted to put the black man in his place. People today are still racist, but they hate being called racist. Today, Wallace would never say anything like that. Instead, he'd be talking about welfare queens. And conservative racists would buy it, because they're not really interested in hearing about how racist their candidate is, and if he can give them any benefit of the doubt whatsoever, they'll take it.
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Old 08-16-2019, 11:19 AM
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He literally ran on a segregationist platform the first time he won a gubernatorial election in Alabama. Indeed, he adopted the policy opportunistically, after his previous strategy of "not be a huge racist shitbag" failed. It's pretty hard to get more "openly racist" than that - the dude adopted new racist policies to show the racist voters that he was, in fact, that racist.
You kind of missed the point - he was elected to his last term as governor after he repudiated segregation and racism.
Quote:
Shodan, I don't know how you define "racist", but whatever your definition is, you're clearly talking about something entriely different from what everyone else is talking about. Maybe it'd be a good idea if you gave this subject a pass.
No, that's not a good idea. Because as I said earlier, the SDMB's definition of "openly" is rather far from that used by many others.

And because
Quote:
People today are still racist, but they hate being called racist.
The more terms like "openly racist" are misused, the less true this becomes. Back when advocating for white supremacy really meant advocating for white supremacy, calling someone a racist meant more than it does now. Because all too often, it just means "you're racist because you're part of society, even if you don't know it and especially if you deny it".

Unless you want to interpret derisive snickers as a sign of how much they hate it.

Regards,
Shodan
  #48  
Old 08-16-2019, 11:26 AM
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You kind of missed the point - he was elected to his last term as governor after he repudiated segregation and racism.
You're right, I did miss that point. I missed how that had any relevance whatsoever to anything you're saying. Wallace was super racist, and was so openly. The fact he stopped being one or the other doesn't really matter; people who know him know him first and foremost because of his racism.
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Old 08-16-2019, 11:34 AM
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I think there are people who feel they can deny being racist as long as they can find one person somewhere who they can point to as being more racist than them.
  #50  
Old 08-16-2019, 12:43 PM
carnivorousplant is offline
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Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Central Arkansas
Posts: 59,004
Quote:
Originally Posted by QuickSilver View Post
Having recently called out McConnell as "Moscow Mitch", I think it's high time Pelosi took a cue from LBJ and accused Trump of being a "Pig-fucker".



Democrats are so nice, I suspect they are secretly Canadians.
"Son, let's make him deny it."

It all began with Levon Helm and The Band.
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You callous bastard! More of my illusions have just been shattered!!-G0sp3l
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