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Old 09-04-2019, 07:32 AM
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What is "Positive Gun News"?


I was mod noted by engineer_comp_geek for my post in the Positive Gun News thread:
Quote:
Originally Posted by engineer_comp_geek View Post
Moderator Note

This is the "Positive Gun News of the Day" thread, not the "Positive Gun Control News of the Day" thread. Gun control posts do not belong in this thread.

There are numerous gun control threads here on the SDMB. If you want to post something like this, post in one of those.
Now that you have decided that gun news that is good news to me (and I suspect, others) is inappropriate, you are going to have to define what constitutes "good news", so I won't run afoul of your judgement in the future.

I have posted many times in that thread with news that I felt was good. Are any of my other posts inappropriate, or should I infer from your silence that they are within the bounds of "good news"?
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Old 09-04-2019, 07:45 AM
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It seems clearly intended as a safe space for gun owners to talk about whatever makes them feel more secure, morally justified, or confident about being gun owners.

I thought just owning the gun was supposed to automatically give you all that stuff, but I guess that's mistaken.
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Old 09-04-2019, 07:57 AM
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While there are gun control threads out there, I don't recall ever seeing a "Positive Gun Control" thread where those opposed to gun control are forbidden from posting...but maybe I missed it.

Last edited by Czarcasm; 09-04-2019 at 07:57 AM.
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Old 09-04-2019, 08:01 AM
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You've had that thread stuck sideways in your ass since the moment it appeared. Maybe the solution is for you to just let it go...or you and Czarcasm can start an opposing position thread of your own. Short of having the thread disappeared, is there anything else that might ease your butthutt?
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Old 09-04-2019, 08:02 AM
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Our resident Second Amendment Fundamentalists don't often visit Stupid Gun News of the Day, but I don't recall anyone being modded for arguing their version of what constitutes stupid gun news.
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Old 09-04-2019, 08:11 AM
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You have to run what you think is "Positive Gun News" through the judges of "Positive Gun News" before you are allowed to post what you think is "Positive Gun News" in the "Positive Gun News" thread. You are not allowed to decide on your own what is and is not "Positive Gun News" because if what you think is "Positive Gun News" doesn't pass the "Positive Gun News" holy tribunal, you will get a warning for having to nerve to consider something "Positive Gun News" without first getting "Positive Gun News" clearance.
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Old 09-04-2019, 08:28 AM
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I had no idea this was a thing. I'm running straight to Stupid Republican Idea of the Day to report all posts that defend stupid Republicans. Expect an avalanche of warnings!
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Old 09-04-2019, 08:57 AM
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For God's sake, it isn't that difficult to figure out.
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Old 09-04-2019, 09:20 AM
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Positive gun news = guns being used in a good way that furthers the pro-gun cause. To hijack it with a post in praise of gun control, would be like a "positive abortion news" that posts pro-Planned Parenthood stuff thread being hijacked by a pro-lifer who wants to praise some Supreme Court anti-abortion ruling.
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Old 09-04-2019, 09:21 AM
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You know, this is pretty simple and anyone that maintains otherwise is being obtuse, intentionally or otherwise. That thread is for discussion of news articles about guns being used in a positive manner, period. If you don't think that is possible, don't open the thread. The moderation of the thread has been pretty consistent throughout.

Full disclosure: I am a (multiple) gun owner with a concealed carry license in my state. I don't generally carry, but do like the option to do so.

Last edited by Doctor Jackson; 09-04-2019 at 09:22 AM.
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Old 09-04-2019, 09:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Velocity View Post
Positive gun news = guns being used in a good way that furthers the pro-gun cause.
I suggest you read the Positive Gun Use OP again. The very first example of the thread is enforcement of a gun control law being overturned by a pardon. Apparently positive gun control is allowed in that thread, so long as it the right kind of positive.
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Old 09-04-2019, 09:50 AM
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You know, this is pretty simple and anyone that maintains otherwise is being obtuse, intentionally or otherwise.
Yes, it's very simple, a safe space where gun owners can wax poetic about the lovely things guns do without being annoyed by people mentioning all the dead people left in their wake.

AFAIK, it's the only thread here where posters aren't allowed to voice disagreement with certain posts.
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Old 09-04-2019, 09:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fear Itself View Post
I was mod noted by engineer_comp_geek for my post in the Positive Gun News thread:


Now that you have decided that gun news that is good news to me (and I suspect, others) is inappropriate, you are going to have to define what constitutes "good news", so I won't run afoul of your judgement in the future.

I have posted many times in that thread with news that I felt was good. Are any of my other posts inappropriate, or should I infer from your silence that they are within the bounds of "good news"?
You may infer nothing of of the sort. In a thread that has been active for four years and has over 1600 posts I can pretty much guarantee there are posts that could have been modded but werenít for various reasons including not being reported. If you posted things that could have received a warning but didnít I would suggest you keep that to yourself.
  #14  
Old 09-04-2019, 09:57 AM
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Guns are tools. It's not a black or white issue, and anyone who thinks guns are 100% good or 100% bad is wrong.
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Old 09-04-2019, 10:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doctor Jackson View Post
You know, this is pretty simple and anyone that maintains otherwise is being obtuse, intentionally or otherwise. That thread is for discussion of news articles about guns being used in a positive manner, period.
That thread is not for discussion in any way shape or form; it's for agreement.

ETA: And it's an embarrassment to the SDMB.

Last edited by Snowboarder Bo; 09-04-2019 at 10:21 AM.
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Old 09-04-2019, 10:19 AM
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If you're going to discuss a mod note, it would be nice if you linked to the actual note instead of the first page of a 33 page thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by engineer_comp_geek View Post
Moderator Note



This is the "Positive Gun News of the Day" thread, not the "Positive Gun Control News of the Day" thread. Gun control posts do not belong in this thread.

There are numerous gun control threads here on the SDMB. If you want to post something like this, post in one of those.
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Old 09-04-2019, 10:21 AM
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If you're going to discuss a mod note, it would be nice if you linked to the actual note instead of the first page of a 33 page thread.
I posted the entire mod note, which includes a link to his post.
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Old 09-04-2019, 10:25 AM
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Let's go to the quarry and throw stuff down there! cochrane even quoted the quote with the link in the post where he complains that the OP should include the link that it includes.

ETA: Yes, I know that's a terrible sentence. It's early but I've been up a long time already.

Last edited by Snowboarder Bo; 09-04-2019 at 10:26 AM.
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Old 09-04-2019, 10:25 AM
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Quote:
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If you posted things that could have received a warning but didnít I would suggest you keep that to yourself.
How should I know what could have received a warning? That's why I posted here! Apparently I am not allowed to judge for myself what constitutes Positive Gun News.
  #20  
Old 09-04-2019, 10:26 AM
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For God's sake, it isn't that difficult to figure out.
Quote:
You know, this is pretty simple and anyone that maintains otherwise is being obtuse, intentionally or otherwise.
Exactly. Not all gun owners agree on everything. But a property owner or business announcing that they will now disallow open carry (in states that allow open carry) cannot possibly be considered to be "positive gun news" for gun owners or those who support gun rights. To argue otherwise is absurd and disingenuous.
  #21  
Old 09-04-2019, 10:35 AM
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How should I know what could have received a warning? That's why I posted here! Apparently I am not allowed to judge for myself what constitutes Positive Gun News.
It seems patently obvious to me that further restrictions on open carry (whether by governments, businesses or private property owners) cannot be viewed as positive gun news. If someone wants to present such a development as positive, shouldn't they have to articulate and develop support for this unusual and odd train of thought, rather than simply post a link that is clearly meant to threadshit?
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Old 09-04-2019, 10:35 AM
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The problem, to the extent that there is one, is that there are a number of posters who cannot bear the thought that guns have any positive uses at all. And so they are desperate to thread shit it out of existence.

The existence of the thread creates a disturbance in the Force. Or perhaps more like an itch they can't scratch. It's not enough to have ten million other threads where they can repeat the same ideas over and over - this one where they can't drives them crazy.

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  #23  
Old 09-04-2019, 10:41 AM
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It seems patently obvious to me that further restrictions on open carry (whether by governments, businesses or private property owners) cannot be viewed as positive gun news.
I disagree. Do you need a safe space where you never hear conflicting opinions?
  #24  
Old 09-04-2019, 10:45 AM
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I posted the entire mod note, which includes a link to his post.
Which does not show up easily on a mobile device, especially on Sultantheme, as some users have complained.
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Old 09-04-2019, 10:46 AM
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Exactly. Not all gun owners agree on everything. But a property owner or business announcing that they will now disallow open carry (in states that allow open carry) cannot possibly be considered to be "positive gun news" for gun owners or those who support gun rights. To argue otherwise is absurd and disingenuous.
To argue otherwise suggests only that there exists a restriction on gun ownership or use that can be considered positive by gun owners. Does no such restriction exist?
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Old 09-04-2019, 10:49 AM
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How should I know what could have received a warning? That's why I posted here! Apparently I am not allowed to judge for myself what constitutes Positive Gun News.
Iíll tell you what, in that thread as in all others I try to mod with a light touch. If it will help you I can look at all of your posts in that thread and warn you where you tried to derail and hijack.
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Old 09-04-2019, 11:00 AM
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To argue otherwise suggests only that there exists a restriction on gun ownership or use that can be considered positive by gun owners. Does no such restriction exist?
I will quote what I said to Orwell over in the other thread;
Quote:
So if it were legal to give loaded Uzis to delusional schizophrenics, to throw handguns into kindergarten playgrounds and to drive around firing randomly out of one's car windows, that would be "positive gun news" because it would represent fewer restrictions for gun rights and gun owners?

Look, I understand the point of this thread, but your definition isn't "simple"; it's simplistic. Responsible gun use and things that promote responsible gun use are good news. Things that facilitate irresponsible use are...less so. Where that line gets drawn is clearly debatable, but "no regulation is good regulation" - a logical conclusion from your statement - is a pretty extreme position.
Regarding the moderation in that thread, I'm finding it a little challenging to parse:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loach
What constitutes responsible gun use is a topic for debate. Thatís what GD is for. Questioning whether specific instances in this thread are examples of responsible gun use is fine.
So we can debate whether specific instances in the thread are responsible gun use, but we can't debate what constitutes responsible gun use even in the context of specific examples? That's splitting a mighty fine hair there.
  #28  
Old 09-04-2019, 11:05 AM
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How should I know what could have received a warning? That's why I posted here! Apparently I am not allowed to judge for myself what constitutes Positive Gun News.
I don't think you are that obtuse. The thread is clearly from a pro-gun (or at least neutral) point of view. Things that are "good" from an anti-gun point of view are clearly off topic for that thread.

As for your posts, I went back and looked at your posts in that thread, back to 2016 at least. More often than not, they were threadshits.

You may not like the topic. You may not like that the topic exists. But that does not give you the right to derail the thread to suit your own opinions. Any more threadshits and you will be topic banned from that thread.

If the thread or the topic bothers you, you know where the Pit is.

Last edited by engineer_comp_geek; 09-04-2019 at 11:09 AM.
  #29  
Old 09-04-2019, 11:08 AM
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While there are gun control threads out there, I don't recall ever seeing a "Positive Gun Control" thread where those opposed to gun control are forbidden from posting...but maybe I missed it.
I am not aware of one either, but if someone (possibly Fear Itself since this topic seems to be near and dear to him) wants to start a Positive Gun Control News of the Day thread, anyone calling failure of gun control legislation to pass a "good thing" would also be threadshitting, and would get moderated.

If someone does decide to start a thread on positive gun control news, make sure you restrict it to that topic, and not the broader issue of gun control debate. Otherwise it will just get tossed over to Great Debates with the other gun control debate threads.

Last edited by engineer_comp_geek; 09-04-2019 at 11:09 AM.
  #30  
Old 09-04-2019, 11:08 AM
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ETA: And it's an embarrassment to the SDMB.
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Let's go to the quarry and throw stuff down there! .
  #31  
Old 09-04-2019, 11:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by engineer_comp_geek View Post
I am not aware of one either, but if someone (possibly Fear Itself since this topic seems to be near and dear to him) wants to start a Positive Gun Control News of the Day thread, anyone calling failure of gun control legislation to pass a "good thing" would also be threadshitting, and would get moderated.

If someone does decide to start a thread on positive gun control news, make sure you restrict it to that topic, and not the broader issue of gun control debate. Otherwise it will just get tossed over to Great Debates with the other gun control debate threads.
Past history in mind, wouldn't it be up to the mods to make sure that the topic stay restricted, because the OP has limited control over the thread and can only make suggestions?
edited to add: And is it possible to create a "Negative Gun" thread that would have the same control as the Positive Gun thread, or would it just get tossed into The BBQ Pit and be open for all comments?

Last edited by Czarcasm; 09-04-2019 at 11:17 AM.
  #32  
Old 09-04-2019, 11:16 AM
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So we can debate whether specific instances in the thread are responsible gun use, but we can't debate what constitutes responsible gun use even in the context of specific examples? That's splitting a mighty fine hair there.
There have been several threads on this one thread. Usually the same people are asking the same questions. Itís been stated before and hopefully I can explain it clear now.

This thread does not have special rules.
Like every other thread in MPSIMS you are not allowed to threadshit or derail.
It is not against the rules to comment on posts as long as itís not a threadshit or a derailment.

Posts about gun control laws, what constitutes being a responsible gun owner or discussions about whether anyone should own a gun are perfectly good topics for the board. They are just beyond the scope of that thread and with start a derailment. They would also most likely be better suited in GD.
  #33  
Old 09-04-2019, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by engineer_comp_geek View Post
I don't think you are that obtuse. The thread is clearly from a pro-gun (or at least neutral) point of view. Things that are "good" from an anti-gun point of view are clearly off topic for that thread.
Is this a new policy for all topics, or just Guns? If I post a Positive Joe Biden News thread, will you moderate anyone who posts anything critical of Joe Biden?
  #34  
Old 09-04-2019, 11:27 AM
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Is this a new policy for all topics, or just Guns? If I post a Positive Joe Biden News thread, will you moderate anyone who posts anything critical of Joe Biden?
It's not a new policy. "Don't threadshit" has been in our rules for longer than I can remember.

More relevant to the topic of this ATMB thread, if someone wants to make a Positive Joe Biden News thread, anyone who posts something causing Joe Biden to fall in the polls as a good thing (intentionally twisting the meaning of "good" to be counter to the intent of the thread) would definitely be moderated.
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Old 09-04-2019, 11:28 AM
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So all posts in that thread must agree with the premise that all restrictions on gun ownership or use are bad and that maximal gun ownership/use rights are good. Any post whose premise disagrees with this rubric is threadshitting.

Are there any other threads on the SDMB that come with that kind of prerequisite?
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Old 09-04-2019, 11:33 AM
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So all posts in that thread must agree with the premise that all restrictions on gun ownership or use are bad and that maximal gun ownership/use rights are good. Any post whose premise disagrees with this rubric is threadshitting.

Are there any other threads on the SDMB that come with that kind of prerequisite?
The rule is the same as everywhere else on the SDMB. "Don't be a jerk." It's perfectly simple - just don't be a jerk in that thread (or any other, outside the Pit) and you will be fine.

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Old 09-04-2019, 11:33 AM
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Are there any other threads on the SDMB that come with that kind of prerequisite?
Most threads on the SDMB come with a prerequisite that you don't threadshit.
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Old 09-04-2019, 11:35 AM
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For what it's worth, I agree with the moderator note. People should not be posting opposition to guns in a thread for positive gun news. There are plenty of threads on the general topic of gun control.
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Old 09-04-2019, 11:40 AM
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Most threads on the SDMB come with a prerequisite that you don't threadshit.
And now that term has become stretched beyond all usefulness. No contrary views allowed if the OP wants a safe space to promote his agenda without debate. Just add "Positive" to the title.
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Old 09-04-2019, 11:44 AM
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"Positive Gun Control News" thread here.
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Old 09-04-2019, 11:45 AM
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And now that term has become stretched beyond all usefulness. No contrary views allowed if the OP wants a safe space to promote his agenda without debate. Just add "Positive" to the title.
You didn't provide a contrary view. You posted a link with no explanation as to why it might be positive gun news, knowing full well that it is not viewed as positive by most people in the thread. That's either lazy... or more likely... threadshitting.

Quote:
I disagree. Do you need a safe space where you never hear conflicting opinions?
I'm entirely fine with hearing conflicting opinions. Where was the opinion presented?

Why does the sight of a holstered firearm so frighten you that you think it should not be allowed, even in a state where it is legal?

Last edited by Orwell; 09-04-2019 at 11:47 AM.
  #42  
Old 09-04-2019, 11:47 AM
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The rule is the same as everywhere else on the SDMB. "Don't be a jerk." It's perfectly simple - just don't be a jerk in that thread (or any other, outside the Pit) and you will be fine.

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Most threads on the SDMB come with a prerequisite that you don't threadshit.
How many threads define threadshitting as not agreeing with a particular political viewpoint?
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  #43  
Old 09-04-2019, 11:47 AM
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For what it's worth, I agree with the moderator note. People should not be posting opposition to guns in a thread for positive gun news. There are plenty of threads on the general topic of gun control.
Being pro-gun control is not necessarily "opposition to guns" as already discussed here and elsewhere, but I get that discussion of gun control is itself off-topic. However, that also indicates that opposition to gun control is also off-topic in that thread. So posts like "Hooray! People can now legally concealed carry in East Dakota!" are now presumably verboten.
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Old 09-04-2019, 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Acsenray View Post
So all posts in that thread must agree with the premise that all restrictions on gun ownership or use are bad and that maximal gun ownership/use rights are good. Any post whose premise disagrees with this rubric is threadshitting.

Are there any other threads on the SDMB that come with that kind of prerequisite?
No that is not true at all. It is a thread that lists instances in which guns are used in a way that could be considered positive such as use in self-defense. If it was hijacked in order to make it a debate against gun control that would also be modded. The pros and cons of gun control are best discussed elsewhere.
  #45  
Old 09-04-2019, 11:52 AM
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Being pro-gun control is not necessarily "opposition to guns" as already discussed here and elsewhere, but I get that discussion of gun control is itself off-topic. However, that also indicates that opposition to gun control is also off-topic in that thread. So posts like "Hooray! People can now legally concealed carry in East Dakota!" are now presumably verboten.
No, because the first cite in the OP was about a gun control law that was sidestepped by a pardon. Anti-gun control is specifically permitted. Only pro-gun control is threadshitting.
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Old 09-04-2019, 11:54 AM
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No, because the first cite in the OP was about a gun control law that was sidestepped by a pardon. Anti-gun control is specifically permitted. Only pro-gun control is threadshitting.
Not according to the post from Loach right above yours.
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The pros and cons of gun control are best discussed elsewhere.
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Old 09-04-2019, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Fear Itself View Post
No, because the first cite in the OP was about a gun control law that was sidestepped by a pardon. Anti-gun control is specifically permitted. Only pro-gun control is threadshitting.
Let's be constructive and assume we're talking post-mod note here.
  #48  
Old 09-04-2019, 11:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gyrate View Post
Being pro-gun control is not necessarily "opposition to guns" as already discussed here and elsewhere, but I get that discussion of gun control is itself off-topic. However, that also indicates that opposition to gun control is also off-topic in that thread. So posts like "Hooray! People can now legally concealed carry in East Dakota!" are now presumably verboten.
Like every other post in every other thread all reports on posts will be looked at in context without a bright line. As E_C_G pointed out almost all of Fear Itselfís posts in that thread going back four years could be considered threadshits and moderated if we were to moderate like that. He has received no warnings in that thread.
  #49  
Old 09-04-2019, 11:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fear Itself View Post
No, because the first cite in the OP was about a gun control law that was sidestepped by a pardon. Anti-gun control is specifically permitted. Only pro-gun control is threadshitting.
Czarcasm created a "Positive Gun Control News" thread. Are you arguing that people who think that the defeat of gun control laws should be able to post those things as "positive" in that thread?
  #50  
Old 09-04-2019, 11:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Czarcasm View Post
Not according to the post from Loach right above yours.
So Bone threadshit his own thread right in the OP? That's got to be a record.
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