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  #101  
Old 09-05-2019, 06:48 AM
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Originally Posted by bucketybuck View Post
OP should receive a warning for arguing in bad faith, let me be the umpteenth person to use the word "disingenuous" in this thread.


If you accept that the positive gun news thread is a safe space for gun enthusiasts where any contrarian view is verboten.

If you do not accept that premise there is nothing remotely disingenuous.

Really, what is positive gun news?

For me it would be: “Walmart stops selling ammunition for handguns, bans open carry in stores”.

For someone else:”Homeowner shoots intruder”.

There are arguments to be made for both these headlines being positive and there are arguments to see them as negative.
That thread clearly needs a better title.
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  #102  
Old 09-05-2019, 06:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Budget Player Cadet View Post
I don't know if I'd call it an embarrassment, but I will say this. I wish I could have the level of "safe space" protection for my recent thread about concentration camps. Instead, we had a level of trolling that leaves Fear Itself's statements about gun control in the dust (and yes, I did in fact report it, and I'm pretty sure I DM'd some mods about it too, nobody cared), and it continued until page 14 (with no warning issued). This despite the fact that I set out the parameters of the discussion in far greater detail than Bone did in his "positive gun news" thread:



This went almost completely ignored. Which, at the time, I was disappointed about, but hey - it happens. Threads here aren't safe spaces, and telling people "please don't disagree in this thread about issue X" isn't something we generally do here.

Except now I see that we absolutely do that here. With certain subjects.
It's almost like there are different rules in Elections than in other forums. Go figure.

Regards,
Shodan
  #103  
Old 09-05-2019, 10:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Miller View Post
The warning, obviously, was for trolling. In the ATMB thread you started about it, manson, you got some good and still highly relevant advice from Colibri:
And that seems to me to be the point of this thread. What is "Positive Gun News" is solely at the discretion of moderators who use their moderating powers to chastise people who fail the "What moderators think Positive Gun News Is" test.

Can I start a thread titled "Handsome Actor News" and then have moderators warn anyone who dares to post news about an Actor whom I don't feel is Handsome?
  #104  
Old 09-05-2019, 10:32 AM
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Originally Posted by MrDibble View Post
It should just be renamed "The Pro-Gun Cheerleading Thread" and left at that.
That would at least be an accurate thread title.
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Originally Posted by MrDibble View Post
Is it significant that the thread in question was started by a Mod? "Some animals are more equal than others", kind of thing.
Absolutely it matters. That thread is like Bone's personal little blog that no one can touch unless he says it's okay.

Last edited by Snowboarder Bo; 09-05-2019 at 10:33 AM.
  #105  
Old 09-05-2019, 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by The Librarian View Post
If you accept that the positive gun news thread is a safe space for gun enthusiasts where any contrarian view is verboten.

If you do not accept that premise there is nothing remotely disingenuous.

Really, what is positive gun news?

For me it would be: “Walmart stops selling ammunition for handguns, bans open carry in stores”.

For someone else:”Homeowner shoots intruder”.

There are arguments to be made for both these headlines being positive and there are arguments to see them as negative.
That thread clearly needs a better title.

Right now, there is a "Positive Abortion News Thread" in MPSIMS. It's generally understood that it is a pro-choice thread.

For a pro-lifer to go into that thread and post, "Great news, it looks like the Supreme Court is poised to overturn Roe!" and then, when accosted by the mods, reply in feigned shock - "What? To me, that's positive abortion news!" would be disingenuous.
  #106  
Old 09-05-2019, 10:39 AM
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This thread, I swear.

Is it really so difficult to figure out the parameters of the thread? Really? OK. The thread is about incidents where a gun was used that led to a positive outcome. 99.9% of the time this will involve guns being used to stop a criminal threat. This may involve deterrence (best case) or violence, perhaps lethal. It is in the spirit of the thread to discuss individual incidents, but it is not in the spirit to discuss general gun policy.

"But wait!" you say "I need my internet outrage fix! How'm I supposed to get that sweet sweet dopamine rush?"

Have I got good news for you, my friend! You can get your fix in the numerous other gun threads on this board. If you don't like what you find, start your own. Wanna "debate" gun policy? There's GD. Wanna call gun owners poopyheads? The pit is right this way.

It's win-win!

Last edited by Larry Borgia; 09-05-2019 at 10:39 AM.
  #107  
Old 09-05-2019, 10:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Larry Borgia View Post
This thread, I swear.

Is it really so difficult to figure out the parameters of the thread? Really? OK. The thread is about incidents where a gun was used that led to a positive outcome. 99.9% of the time this will involve guns being used to stop a criminal threat. This may involve deterrence (best case) or violence, perhaps lethal. It is in the spirit of the thread to discuss individual incidents, but it is not in the spirit to discuss general gun policy.

"But wait!" you say "I need my internet outrage fix! How'm I supposed to get that sweet sweet dopamine rush?"

Have I got good news for you, my friend! You can get your fix in the numerous other gun threads on this board. If you don't like what you find, start your own. Wanna "debate" gun policy? There's GD. Wanna call gun owners poopyheads? The pit is right this way.

It's win-win!
But I don't wanna do it in other threads. I wanna do it in THIS ONE!!!

Regards,
Shodan
  #108  
Old 09-05-2019, 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Larry Borgia View Post
The thread is about incidents where a gun was used that led to a positive outcome.
Begging the question. What makes an outcome "positive"?
  #109  
Old 09-05-2019, 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Larry Borgia View Post
This thread, I swear.

Is it really so difficult to figure out the parameters of the thread? Really? OK. The thread is about incidents where a gun was used that led to a positive outcome. 99.9% of the time this will involve guns being used to stop a criminal threat. This may involve deterrence (best case) or violence, perhaps lethal. It is in the spirit of the thread to discuss individual incidents, but it is not in the spirit to discuss general gun policy.

"But wait!" you say "I need my internet outrage fix! How'm I supposed to get that sweet sweet dopamine rush?"

Have I got good news for you, my friend! You can get your fix in the numerous other gun threads on this board. If you don't like what you find, start your own. Wanna "debate" gun policy? There's GD. Wanna call gun owners poopyheads? The pit is right this way.

It's win-win!
Can I request the same treatment for other topics?
  #110  
Old 09-05-2019, 11:15 AM
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I have posted a time or two in that thread, challenging whether a particular news item is really "positive" and have not received a warning nor any pushback from other thread participants. Maybe that's because I'm trying not to be a dick about it. But it does raise (well, continue) the question of what is threadshitting, and when is reasonable discussion allowed in a thread.

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Originally Posted by BigT View Post
I argue that both "Bad guy killed by a gun" and "gun user stopped by someone not using a gun" both count as positive gun news.
See, this is the fundamental disagreement on the premise. If a guy with a gun breaks into another person's house, and the homeowner has a gun, and the homeowner shoots and kills the burglar, here is a situation where a burglary and a death occurred that may not have occurred without the guns. I don't see how that's positive.

If I am not allowed to post that opinion, then the thread has become an echo chamber. If the SDMB wants to support creating echo chambers for one side of controversial positions, then by all means state that as a policy so we know where you stand.
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Last edited by CookingWithGas; 09-05-2019 at 11:16 AM.
  #111  
Old 09-05-2019, 11:17 AM
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Originally Posted by ElvisL1ves View Post
Begging the question. What makes an outcome "positive"?
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Originally Posted by Budget Player Cadet View Post
Can I request the same treatment for other topics?
You must be the worst people to play D&D with.

In any event, I've made my point. I think it's pretty clear and I'm not going to get dragged into a morass of nit-picking and rules-lawyering. Post as you want, and I'll leave it to the mods to sort things out.
  #112  
Old 09-05-2019, 11:26 AM
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Is it significant that the thread in question was started by a Mod? "Some animals are more equal than others", kind of thing.
The thread was started before Bone was a moderator, he hasn’t posted in it for over a year, he never once has tried to influence how the thread is moderated and as far back as 2016 he mentions not posting as much anymore. In his own words on a previous thread about this thread:

Quote:
I wouldn't say that's fair actually. The thread was started in October of 2015. I became a Moderator on Nov 8, 2016. By that point there had been over 1100 posts with the same character of moderation throughout.


I could still very easily be posting additional examples on a daily basis, but around the time I was in discussion to be a Moderator,
I decided that it would be better for me to stop.
This was never discussed with Ed at the time, nor any of the MPSIMS mods. Though, before I became a Mod I did report a few posts here and there. The thing is, the reason I stopped posting regularly was as stated in the linked post, and also unstated was because i wanted to avoid the specific thing you are mentioning. To avoid putting the MPSIMS mods in any appearance of an awkward position, I thought it best to pull away from that thread. There are a lot of things I don't post now for similar reasons. Objectivity in fact and appearance - it's a personal goal.
So no, the fact that Bone started the thread has nothing to do with it and he has not been involved in it even as a poster for quite some time.

Last edited by Loach; 09-05-2019 at 11:27 AM.
  #113  
Old 09-05-2019, 11:31 AM
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Absolutely it matters. That thread is like Bone's personal little blog that no one can touch unless he says it's okay.
Then he is doing an awful job maintaining his personal little blog. Or maybe you have no idea what you are talking about.
  #114  
Old 09-05-2019, 11:32 AM
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Then he is doing an awful job maintaining his personal little blog. Or maybe you have no idea what you are talking about.
Insert failed quarry catchphrase here.
  #115  
Old 09-05-2019, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by The Librarian View Post
If you accept that the positive gun news thread is a safe space for gun enthusiasts where any contrarian view is verboten.

If you do not accept that premise there is nothing remotely disingenuous.

Really, what is positive gun news?

For me it would be: “Walmart stops selling ammunition for handguns, bans open carry in stores”.

For someone else:”Homeowner shoots intruder”.

There are arguments to be made for both these headlines being positive and there are arguments to see them as negative.
That thread clearly needs a better title.

I agree... and when the thread-starters are allowed to cast a specific opinion as "positive" and by extension define the alternate opinion as "negative", it is basically taking a side and/or reframing the debate through a sort of structural change.

Right now, the presence of that thread strongly implies that "positive gun change" = gun control/confiscation is positive, and everything else is negative. Which is not how you run an ostensibly even-handed or neutral railroad, or get productive debate, IMO.
  #116  
Old 09-05-2019, 12:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Shodan View Post
But I don't wanna do it in other threads. I wanna do it in THIS ONE!!!

Regards,
Shodan
It seems to me sometimes that a lot of threads in ATMB come down to that.

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Originally Posted by Loach View Post
<BIG SNIP>

So no, the fact that Bone started the thread has nothing to do with it and he has not been involved in it even as a poster for quite some time.
I pretty much figured that.


As for the name I figure Bone can weigh in on that but if my memory is right a couple different firearms magazines ran a "positive gun news" column or a few stories now and then. Off the top of my head I am guessing they grew out of the NRAs "Armed Citizen" column. I actually like the name and feel its a good fit because it has covered more than just some citizen defending themselves against a bad guy.

And like others I just don't see where someone is honestly confused about what the thread is for. But heck - I guess anything is possible on the internet. And it has made this thread a rather interesting read.
  #117  
Old 09-05-2019, 12:30 PM
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On consideration, I think it’s OK to post gun control stuff in the Positive Gun News of the Day thread. Similarly, it’s OK to post stories about people capping muggers and home invaders in the Positive Gun Control thread, because those gun owners exerted impeccable control over their weapons’ recoil when killing their assailants.
  #118  
Old 09-05-2019, 12:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Unreconstructed Man View Post
On consideration, I think it’s OK to post gun control stuff in the Positive Gun News of the Day thread. Similarly, it’s OK to post stories about people capping muggers and home invaders in the Positive Gun Control thread, because those gun owners exerted impeccable control over their weapons’ recoil when killing their assailants.
Oh no, we must maintain separate but equal safe spaces, so contrary viewpoints never have to encounter each other.
  #119  
Old 09-05-2019, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Unreconstructed Man View Post
On consideration, I think it’s OK to post gun control stuff in the Positive Gun News of the Day thread. Similarly, it’s OK to post stories about people capping muggers and home invaders in the Positive Gun Control thread, because those gun owners exerted impeccable control over their weapons’ recoil when killing their assailants.
In that thread on positive gun control is this Mod Note:
Quote:
Moderator Note

This is NOT yet another gun control debate thread. This thread is for positive gun control news only. If you wish to engage in a discussion of gun control, please do so in one of the many gun control threads we have in Great Debates.

As with the positive gun news thread, you are free to discuss your opinions of whether any particular incident is really good or not, but do not threadshit.
On consideration, do you want to reconsider?

Last edited by Czarcasm; 09-05-2019 at 12:42 PM.
  #120  
Old 09-05-2019, 12:45 PM
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No. If someone kills an assailant with a gun, that means they’ve exercised good control over the gun. The story is thus a positive story about gun control.
  #121  
Old 09-05-2019, 12:47 PM
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Oh no, we must maintain separate but equal safe spaces, so contrary viewpoints never have to encounter each other.
Adhere to the spirit of a thread, or don’t post in it. Seems simple enough.
  #122  
Old 09-05-2019, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Czarcasm View Post
In that thread on positive gun control is this Mod Note:

On consideration, do you want to reconsider?
Your username is proving ironic here.
  #123  
Old 09-05-2019, 12:58 PM
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"Hey, (insert name of celebrity here) just passed and i am starting this thread to talk about all the great memories he/she has given us over the past decades. Post your favorite bits from his/her oeuvre, meetings, etc, please. "


"That ..... is a no talent asshole, and I am glad he is dead!"

So, basically that's what the OP wants to do. Which is exactly threadshitting.
  #124  
Old 09-05-2019, 01:20 PM
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Right now, there is a "Positive Abortion News Thread" in MPSIMS. It's generally understood that it is a pro-choice thread.

For a pro-lifer to go into that thread and post, "Great news, it looks like the Supreme Court is poised to overturn Roe!" and then, when accosted by the mods, reply in feigned shock - "What? To me, that's positive abortion news!" would be disingenuous.
Even if it doesn't happen in that thread that is the exact behavior that the right is constantly engaging in and happens all the time here.

Look at any Liz Warren speech on the stump. I support her positions, on capitalism. She and I are both capitalists. Some capitalists oppose her though.

Now in a "good news about capitalism" thread we are going to have disagreements, between those like me and those not like me.

The right are always leveraging and arbitraging this feature of our world. When the left does if there is an outcry of squeals. Welcome to reality.
  #125  
Old 09-05-2019, 01:26 PM
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It's called working the refs.
  #126  
Old 09-05-2019, 01:31 PM
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Even if it doesn't happen in that thread that is the exact behavior that the right is constantly engaging in and happens all the time here.
Just out of curiosity, what does it prove when something that happens constantly and all the time doesn't happen?

Regards,
Shodan
  #127  
Old 09-05-2019, 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by DrDeth View Post
"Hey, (insert name of celebrity here) just passed and i am starting this thread to talk about all the great memories he/she has given us over the past decades. Post your favorite bits from his/her oeuvre, meetings, etc, please. "


"That ..... is a no talent asshole, and I am glad he is dead!"

So, basically that's what the OP wants to do. Which is exactly threadshitting.
I think a better analogy would be "Remember that time <celebrity> crashed his car into a van of nuns? That was pretty great!" and then getting modded because that is not the "great memories" the OP meant.
  #128  
Old 09-05-2019, 02:57 PM
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I am pro-gun control but this thread is almost causing me to re-think my stance.
  #129  
Old 09-05-2019, 03:15 PM
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I am pro-gun control but this thread is almost causing me to re-think my stance.
That's bad news for the OP.

Start a thread about it, but ask people not to post unless they disagree with you.

Regards,
Shodan
  #130  
Old 09-05-2019, 03:43 PM
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Just out of curiosity, what does it prove when something that happens constantly and all the time doesn't happen?

Regards,
Shodan
Regards,

My observation is that anything that the right feels it needs to say "constantly," will be something that also will happen "all the time" here, within the reaasonable interpretation of those phrases. Keep working those refs, though.
  #131  
Old 09-05-2019, 04:44 PM
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I will concede that Bone chose poorly for the thread title. If he'd just named it "Omnibus defensive gun use thread" this whole whiny nit-picky thread might never have been born.
  #132  
Old 09-05-2019, 05:02 PM
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OPs and Titles are critical. If someone can twist what you said in one of those, you have to assume they will. Then if you have a problem they will complain about the first amendment. And they will be right AFAIAC. Title your threads competently, and with the understanding that you are in a heterotodox community.

Last edited by drad dog; 09-05-2019 at 05:03 PM.
  #133  
Old 09-05-2019, 05:24 PM
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But people aren't robots. People can read for intent and understand the spirit of things. Also, this isn't a court of law, where things must be spelled out in great detail, and any technical error is fair game to exploit. It's a message board discussion, where it's at least possible to be fair and generous to each other.

The intent of the thread was clear. I refuse to believe the people rules-lawyering it can have failed to see it. They just aren't that stupid. They saw an opening and took it, solely to cheese off the gun folk. I guess it's up to the mods whether or not they'll succeed, but it seems really childish to me.
  #134  
Old 09-05-2019, 06:28 PM
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But people aren't robots. People can read for intent and understand the spirit of things. Also, this isn't a court of law, where things must be spelled out in great detail, and any technical error is fair game to exploit. It's a message board discussion, where it's at least possible to be fair and generous to each other.

The intent of the thread was clear. I refuse to believe the people rules-lawyering it can have failed to see it. They just aren't that stupid. They saw an opening and took it, solely to cheese off the gun folk. I guess it's up to the mods whether or not they'll succeed, but it seems really childish to me.
From the left to the right it is unfamiliar, I grant, to be pedantic about thread missions in trying to insert a given POV from the left.

But from the right to the left it is like the ether. It's not even notable anymore. When it is noted it is one of those "Poor conservative me" posts. "You want to eliminate us!!!"

The assymetry really offends me in this situation.

The OP has to be the source of the threads mission. We are anonymous and use only typed english words for our communication. It's not a lot to ask that posters make clear OPs as that is the source for the future modding of the thread as to it's mission. It doesn't work to say "but you knew what I meant!" in most situations concerning the actual lives of adults, and especially not now in 2019. I live in a country with 63 million people who I dont know what they mean.

We have two sides to every issue in this country now, in a post fox news/ trump era. Good always cuts two ways, and if you go around and disagree with people just for the Lulz you have to write clearly and legibly.

Last edited by drad dog; 09-05-2019 at 06:31 PM.
  #135  
Old 09-05-2019, 06:37 PM
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Originally Posted by drad dog View Post
From the left to the right it is unfamiliar, I grant, to be pedantic about thread missions in trying to insert a given POV from the left.

But from the right to the left it is like the ether. It's not even notable anymore. When it is noted it is one of those "Poor conservative me" posts. "You want to eliminate us!!!"

The assymetry really offends me in this situation.

The OP has to be the source of the threads mission. We are anonymous and use only typed english words for our communication. It's not a lot to ask that posters make clear OPs as that is the source for the future modding of the thread as to it's mission. It doesn't work to say "but you knew what I meant!" in most situations concerning the actual lives of adults, and especially not now in 2019. I live in a country with 63 million people who I dont know what they mean.

We have two sides to every issue in this country now, in a post fox news/ trump era. Good always cuts two ways, and if you go around and disagree with people just for the Lulz you have to write clearly and legibly.
Yes, good writing and clear reasoning are important. With that in mind would you mind clarifying this? I'm having a hard time parsing it, especially how it applies to the thread in question.

For the record I'm generally left leaning on a lot of issues, though I'm pretty neutral on guns.
  #136  
Old 09-05-2019, 11:16 PM
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Is it really so difficult to figure out the parameters of the thread?
No, it's not.

Fear Itself and manson1972, I know that you understand the intent of that thread, and are just disagreeing with it because you don't like it. Since your comments here make it painfully clear that you will do everything that you can to subvert the intent of that thread, you are now hereby officially topic banned from participating in that thread. You may not post at all in the Positive Gun News of the Day thread.

This ban applies only to that thread. If you so desire, you may post in the Pit about that thread, and link to posts in that thread. But you will not post in the Positive Gun News of the Day thread at all.
  #137  
Old 09-05-2019, 11:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Larry Borgia View Post
I will concede that Bone chose poorly for the thread title. If he'd just named it "Omnibus defensive gun use thread" this whole whiny nit-picky thread might never have been born.
And I would have had to spend at least another hour this week paying attention to the Old Wench. Lord knows none of us want to see that happen.
  #138  
Old 09-06-2019, 01:24 AM
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No, it's not.

Fear Itself and manson1972, I know that you understand the intent of that thread, and are just disagreeing with it because you don't like it. Since your comments here make it painfully clear that you will do everything that you can to subvert the intent of that thread, you are now hereby officially topic banned from participating in that thread. You may not post at all in the Positive Gun News of the Day thread.

This ban applies only to that thread. If you so desire, you may post in the Pit about that thread, and link to posts in that thread. But you will not post in the Positive Gun News of the Day thread at all.
I applaud this moderation. It strikes me as modest in scope and entirely appropriate.
  #139  
Old 09-06-2019, 02:21 AM
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It's called working the refs.
You don't have to work them when they're already on your team.
  #140  
Old 09-06-2019, 05:54 AM
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You don't have to work them when they're already on your team.
Or if you're playing by the rules.


The use of a gun in accordance with the current laws/rules/regulations is a positive gun use and a post concerning that is positive gun news.
A change in the current laws/rules/regulations in the direction of allowing more freedoms/greater rights concerning obtaining/possessing/using guns is positive gun news.

The correctness/appropriateness of the current or proposed gun laws/rules/regulations are debatable and appropriate for a thread in Great Debates or the Pit; it could be a In My Humble Opinion thread if the thread explicitly encourages all opinions.

I don’t think it would violate any board rules if I daily posted in the thread: “Millions & millions of gun owners did not illegally or accidentally discharge their hundreds of millions of guns today.” While the statement is true, it doesn’t add much to the discussion but then many posts in many threads don’t.

A more appropriate title for the thread could be News of Positive Gun Use but if hyper-specificity becomes the standard, many thread titles on this Board would need revision.
  #141  
Old 09-06-2019, 06:38 AM
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Originally Posted by dba Fred View Post
The use of a gun in accordance with the current laws/rules/regulations is a positive gun use and a post concerning that is positive gun news.
Agreed.
Quote:
A change in the current laws/rules/regulations in the direction of allowing more freedoms/greater rights concerning obtaining/possessing/using guns is positive gun news.
Not automatically agreed. Which is my principle objection here (and indeed there). The use of a gun in legitimate self-defense is understandably positive. The "positive" nature of gun control laws (or the lack thereof) is far more nebulous and subjective.

Quote:
The correctness/appropriateness of the current or proposed gun laws/rules/regulations are debatable and appropriate for a thread in Great Debates or the Pit; it could be a In My Humble Opinion thread if the thread explicitly encourages all opinions.
And yet you've just set the default position as "my view on gun regulation is correct and no one is allowed to say otherwise". If gun control is off-topic, then gun control should be off-topic for everyone.

Quote:
A more appropriate title for the thread could be News of Positive Gun Use but if hyper-specificity becomes the standard, many thread titles on this Board would need revision.
That's not that "hyper-specific". "Accurate" is a better description.
  #142  
Old 09-06-2019, 07:33 AM
Fear Itself is offline
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Originally Posted by engineer_comp_geek View Post
No, it's not.

Fear Itself and manson1972, I know that you understand the intent of that thread, and are just disagreeing with it because you don't like it. Since your comments here make it painfully clear that you will do everything that you can to subvert the intent of that thread, you are now hereby officially topic banned from participating in that thread. You may not post at all in the Positive Gun News of the Day thread.

This ban applies only to that thread. If you so desire, you may post in the Pit about that thread, and link to posts in that thread. But you will not post in the Positive Gun News of the Day thread at all.
I see you shut down the Positive Abortion thread. Is this your policy going forward? Are all Positive News threads trolling?
  #143  
Old 09-06-2019, 07:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Gyrate View Post
Agreed.
Not automatically agreed. Which is my principle objection here (and indeed there). The use of a gun in legitimate self-defense is understandably positive. The "positive" nature of gun control laws (or the lack thereof) is far more nebulous and subjective.

And yet you've just set the default position as "my view on gun regulation is correct and no one is allowed to say otherwise". If gun control is off-topic, then gun control should be off-topic for everyone.

That's not that "hyper-specific". "Accurate" is a better description.
Again, just do what one of the mods says -
Quote:
Originally Posted by Colibri
I would just advise anyone who feels they are personally too dense to figure out general social norms that don't seem to be a problem for 99.9% of posters to just stay well away from the subject. Sorry, but if you are claiming you just can't figure any of this out, just don't post about it.
It's not that hard.
  • Don't be a jerk.
  • If you think a post is problematic, report it.
  • If you can't figure out the rules on a topic, don't post on the topic.
They're not going to give you a bright line, because then posters will see how close they can get to the line without crossing it.

This is their message board, not yours. Etc.

Regards,
Shodan
  #144  
Old 09-06-2019, 08:11 AM
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Again, just do what one of the mods says -
It's not that hard.
  • Don't be a jerk.
  • If you think a post is problematic, report it.
  • If you can't figure out the rules on a topic, don't post on the topic.
They're not going to give you a bright line, because then posters will see how close they can get to the line without crossing it.

This is their message board, not yours. Etc.

Regards,
Shodan
Thanks for the helpful advice. I wasn't aware I'd inadvertently claimed ownership of the messageboard.
  #145  
Old 09-06-2019, 12:21 PM
drad dog is offline
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This is another left vs right argument apparently.

What would "positive gun news" be for Jesus? You really need to title your OP so he doesn't feel welcome and come in, if he's not.

As far as "Don't be a jerk" (!!!???). I agree. If I'm a jerk punish me. I'll take the Mitch McConnell punishment please. No one in any thread here is more of a jerk than that. That was a public statement, and demonstration, to humiliate and deny anyone to the left of him, the fairness of him not being a jerk to the constitution of the US.

If something is not spelled out, now in 2019, expect it to be spelled out for you by someone else. Why are they the jerk?
  #146  
Old 09-06-2019, 01:11 PM
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For what it's worth, I'm sympathetic to Fear Itself's views on gun control but even I can tell he is just threadshitting there. I don't have any problem with the moderation. Yes, the title was badly chosen. Still, from the examples, it's clear what direction the conversation was supposed to head in. I stay out of that thread because they aren't having the discussion I think is worth having.
  #147  
Old 09-06-2019, 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Tired and Cranky View Post
For what it's worth, I'm sympathetic to Fear Itself's views on gun control but even I can tell he is just threadshitting there. I don't have any problem with the moderation. Yes, the title was badly chosen. Still, from the examples, it's clear what direction the conversation was supposed to head in. I stay out of that thread because they aren't having the discussion I think is worth having.
I agree, and was going to make exactly those points myself. The further point I would make is that while the right to post opposing viewpoints should obviously be allowed and indeed protected in debate threads, this isn't a debate thread. It's a thread in which the OP wishes to confine the discussion to only positive gun news, presumably for the express purpose of avoiding yet another gun debate. There's nothing biased about moderation that supports the OP's intent, as long as moderation policy also allows a similar thread with the opposite intent, which indeed it does.

I can appreciate the urge to barge in to such a thread with an opposing viewpoint, but it really isn't appropriate in that context and is in fact threadshitting. The only contrarian kind of post that would be appropriate there IMHO would be one that I think is appropriate in any serious thread at any time, namely one that challenges something clearly non-factual (e.g.- "according to this cite, the above good-news gun story is highly inaccurate as that's not what really happened ..."). But the OP of that thread clearly wants to avoid another gun debate and that should be respected.

Personally I would question the utility of such "good-news-only" threads, as they seem to be thinly veiled attempts to celebrate one's pet issue without fear of opposition, but hey, they appear in a forum in which "pointless" is right in the name of the forum!
  #148  
Old 09-06-2019, 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted by wolfpup View Post
Personally I would question the utility of such "good-news-only" threads, as they seem to be thinly veiled attempts to celebrate one's pet issue without fear of opposition,
I disagree. The celebration without opposition isn't veiled in the slightest.
  #149  
Old 09-06-2019, 04:30 PM
dba Fred is offline
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I’ve never gotten the hang of nested quoting, if somebody could point me to an Idiots Guide for Posting, I’d appreciate it; until then, please bear with my cut and pasting.

In this About This Message Board thread, I’m attempting to explain my humble opinion about the In My Humble Opinion thread. Obviously I think my opinions/interpretations are correct and I will try to clarify them based on Gyrate’s reply.

Originally Posted by dba Fred 
“The use of a gun in accordance with the current laws/rules/regulations is a positive gun use and a post concerning that is positive gun news.”
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gyrate View Post
Agreed.
In the original Positive Gun News of the Day post, the OP contrasted negative and positive gun news and stated the thread was for positive news. A place to post pictures of kittens was not was the thread was to be about, nor for negative examples of gun use, nor debating/discussing what gun laws could/should be. Any example could change from positive to negative or vice versa if the laws/rules/regulations were different but the thread was about what is today.

Originally Posted by dba Fred 
“A change in the current laws/rules/regulations in the direction of allowing more freedoms/greater rights concerning obtaining/possessing/using guns is positive gun news.”
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gyrate View Post
Not automatically agreed. Which is my principle objection here (and indeed there). The use of a gun in legitimate self-defense is understandably positive. The "positive" nature of gun control laws (or the lack thereof) is far more nebulous and subjective.
I think the OP would have started this thread in Great Debates and stated in the original post that the thread was debating gun control laws if that was the intention. The foundation, the basis of the thread concerned what currently is. In every thread on this Board that I can recall, an expansion of rights and freedoms is considered a positive so I don’t see why that wouldn’t be the default position concerning gun control.
In a thread called Pretty Kitty Pictures, if I posted a photo of a kitten after being run over by a car and said “I hate kitties so this is a pretty picture”, I’d be moderated. Why? Because what I posted isn’t what the tread was about.


Originally Posted by dba Fred 
“The correctness/appropriateness of the current or proposed gun laws/rules/regulations are debatable and appropriate for a thread in Great Debates or the Pit; it could be a In My Humble Opinion thread if the thread explicitly encourages all opinions.”
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gyrate View Post
And yet you've just set the default position as "my view on gun regulation is correct and no one is allowed to say otherwise". If gun control is off-topic, then gun control should be off-topic for everyone.
I don’t think I was setting as a default position that my opinion was the only correct position on gun control, not for all Forums nor for all threads. For the purpose of the Positive Gun News of the Day thread, news of a change in positive direction re: expansion of rights & freedoms of gun laws/rules/regulations, is appropriate for the thread; changes to gun laws/rules/regulations that reduce rights & freedoms are negatives and while appropriate for other threads, not the Positive Gun News one.

Originally Posted by dba Fred 
“A more appropriate title for the thread could be News of Positive Gun Use but if hyper-specificity becomes the standard, many thread titles on this Board would need revision.”
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gyrate View Post
That's not that "hyper-specific". "Accurate" is a better description.
You say to-may-toes and I say to-mah-toes.
Example: the USS Missouri had 16” guns; are we to assume it would be appropriate to bring them into the thread because the OP didn’t exclude them?
One could write an OP of several pages’ length to define every word and situation down to a gnat’s ass but at some point we assume common definitions and understanding.

That's my attempt to clarify and not be a drive-by poster.
  #150  
Old 09-06-2019, 05:12 PM
drad dog is offline
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Originally Posted by wolfpup View Post
I agree, and was going to make exactly those points myself. The further point I would make is that while the right to post opposing viewpoints should obviously be allowed and indeed protected in debate threads, this isn't a debate thread. It's a thread in which the OP wishes to confine the discussion to only positive gun news, presumably for the express purpose of avoiding yet another gun debate. There's nothing biased about moderation that supports the OP's intent, as long as moderation policy also allows a similar thread with the opposite intent, which indeed it does.

I can appreciate the urge to barge in to such a thread with an opposing viewpoint, but it really isn't appropriate in that context and is in fact threadshitting. The only contrarian kind of post that would be appropriate there IMHO would be one that I think is appropriate in any serious thread at any time, namely one that challenges something clearly non-factual (e.g.- "according to this cite, the above good-news gun story is highly inaccurate as that's not what really happened ..."). But the OP of that thread clearly wants to avoid another gun debate and that should be respected.

Personally I would question the utility of such "good-news-only" threads, as they seem to be thinly veiled attempts to celebrate one's pet issue without fear of opposition, but hey, they appear in a forum in which "pointless" is right in the name of the forum!
I think it all depends on what the OP says exactly, and should be judged modded and litigated on that. You can't fulfill a mission of fighting ignorance by saying "You know what I meant"

When McConnell did his ignoring of practice and protocol, in defiance of the majority of voters in the country, it didn't just happen in the wider world. It happened here too. Mitch became a topic of a thread and my memory of it is that it was people saying, basically, "You know what (I) (The Constitution) (Congress) meant!"

Do you remember what the responses to that were? It was to go back to the letter of the law, and the letters ommitted, and chew on a piece of leather.

When I watch Fox News they remind me that every value I have about economics or the environment, or race, OR GUNS, is currently a heated debate between the left and the "right" and that debate is so contested and important that it does not end, ever. It can't by definition because the rhetoric on the right has gone down that road, towards revelations and apocalypse. Just watch Fox some time. It's the end of the world for them all the time. Imagine if you had a relationship with Fox and had to tell them "You know what I meant" How far do you think you'd get?
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