Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 04-11-2018, 10:59 AM
Velocity Velocity is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 11,554
Did the Parkland students really get what they wanted?

In terms of publicity, the Parkland students have brought considerable attention to the gun issue, but in terms of substantive policy, they got clear backpacks and long TSA-like security lines. They hardly got a single gun confiscated in America (there are still 300 million firearms in the nation) and the Second Amendment is no closer to being repealed than it was before. In fact, they now simply face added nuisance (in the article, some female students pointed out that clear backpacks were potentially embarrassing in revealing feminine hygiene items or whatnot.)

It's hard to see this as a "policy win" for them. They got significant coverage, but the policies that were enacted were of only tiny (mostly symbolic) effect and in fact just made their lives more troublesome. A Columbine or Virginia Tech spree remains every bit as possible at any high school in America, tomorrow, as it was the day before the Parkland shooting. A would-be killer still has just about as much access to guns as before.

Last edited by Velocity; 04-11-2018 at 11:01 AM.
  #2  
Old 04-11-2018, 11:16 AM
Bruce Wayne Bruce Wayne is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Michigan
Posts: 760
Their foot in the door to a career in politics or an internship at CNN.
  #3  
Old 04-11-2018, 11:17 AM
Kimstu Kimstu is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 20,274
Quote:
Originally Posted by Velocity View Post
In terms of publicity, the Parkland students have brought considerable attention to the gun issue, but in terms of substantive policy, they got clear backpacks and long TSA-like security lines.
They were probably going to get those security measures imposed on their school anyway whether they protested or not, as have many other American students in the wake of, or in a period of heightened concern about, a school shooting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Velocity
They hardly got a single gun confiscated in America (there are still 300 million firearms in the nation) and the Second Amendment is no closer to being repealed than it was before.
It's early days yet. The shooting happened less than two months ago, and the student activists (or at least some of them) seem pretty committed to a long-term movement for more effective gun control. AFAICT their current focus is largely on turning out youth voters for midterm elections.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Velocity
In fact, they now simply face added nuisance (in the article, some female students pointed out that clear backpacks were potentially embarrassing in revealing feminine hygiene items or whatnot.)

It's hard to see this as a "policy win" for them. They got significant coverage, but the policies that were enacted were of only tiny (mostly symbolic) effect and in fact just made their lives more troublesome.
Like I said, I think you're mistaken in suggesting that the new security policies enacted by the school were the result of the students' national-level activism. Parkland was pretty much guaranteed to respond to the tragedy with some kind of heightened security theater no matter what the students did or didn't do.
  #4  
Old 04-11-2018, 11:24 AM
enalzi enalzi is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 7,039
I don't think "Repeal the 2nd amendment and confiscate all guns in two months" was the goal here.

From 538, in the last two months (more details in the link):

Quote:
  • Congress has passed new federal policies
  • Trump has requested a new ban on bump stocks
  • Legislation to expand gun rights has been sidelined
  • Almost all House Democrats support a strong federal gun control measure
  • Florida adopted new gun control measures
  • The private sector is limiting gun access and moving away from the NRA
  • Blue states and cities have approved new restrictions
  #5  
Old 04-11-2018, 11:34 AM
Kimstu Kimstu is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 20,274
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce Wayne View Post
Their foot in the door to a career in politics or an internship at CNN.
Shrewd response. After all, it's well known that nothing de-energizes a youth movement, especially one originating in the senseless violent deaths of young people, like cynical sneering at its motives and belittling the reality of its concerns. That's why Nixon calling campus protestors "bums" had such a calming effect in the aftermath of the Kent State massacre nearly 50 years ago.

You keep right on telling these teenage massacre survivors and their audiences that they're just a bunch of attention-seeking strivers maneuvering for their own personal advantage, and that'll straighten them out. Besides winning lots of admiration and respect for you personally.
  #6  
Old 04-11-2018, 11:42 AM
Chronos Chronos is offline
Charter Member
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: The Land of Cleves
Posts: 76,960
Of course they didn't get what they wanted. What they wanted was for their friends and classmates to not get killed. It's too easy to lapse into thinking that this whole thing is just a ploy for attention, but if you'd ask any one of them if they'd trade that attention for getting their friends back, every one of them would say yes.
  #7  
Old 04-11-2018, 11:48 AM
Czarcasm Czarcasm is online now
Charter Member
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 55,991
Quote:
Originally Posted by Velocity View Post
In terms of publicity, the Parkland students have brought considerable attention to the gun issue, but in terms of substantive policy, they got clear backpacks and long TSA-like security lines. They hardly got a single gun confiscated in America (there are still 300 million firearms in the nation) and the Second Amendment is no closer to being repealed than it was before. In fact, they now simply face added nuisance (in the article, some female students pointed out that clear backpacks were potentially embarrassing in revealing feminine hygiene items or whatnot.)

It's hard to see this as a "policy win" for them. They got significant coverage, but the policies that were enacted were of only tiny (mostly symbolic) effect and in fact just made their lives more troublesome. A Columbine or Virginia Tech spree remains every bit as possible at any high school in America, tomorrow, as it was the day before the Parkland shooting. A would-be killer still has just about as much access to guns as before.
Make up goals for them, then declare them to be failures for not meeting those imaginary goals.
Feel like a winner now?
  #8  
Old 04-11-2018, 11:49 AM
susan susan is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Coastal USA
Posts: 8,774
I'm not sure that 2 months is sufficient time to evaluate the impact.
  #9  
Old 04-11-2018, 11:58 AM
Little Nemo Little Nemo is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Western New York
Posts: 76,917
I think the OP is wrong in his claim that "the Second Amendment is no closer to being repealed than it was before."

Unfortunately I think the OP is right in saying there will be more Columbines and Virginia Techs and Parklands. And Sandy Hooks. Hundreds more children will be shot before we finally summon the will to change our country's insane gun laws.
  #10  
Old 04-11-2018, 12:09 PM
DavidwithanR DavidwithanR is offline
Suspended
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 1,893
Dead friends, and a frustrating waste of time trying to persuade prejudiced old men (who are deathly afraid of some other old men because the other old men are not afraid to lie to protect their toys, and raise tons of money to bribe the first old men to not snitch on them) to actually get off their asses and do something about why their friends are dead?

How could that be "what they want"?
  #11  
Old 04-11-2018, 12:35 PM
DavidwithanR DavidwithanR is offline
Suspended
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 1,893
What the students want is what was said after WWI. "Never again."

And

They want legislators to be prepared to sacrifice history and sacrifice principles, in order to get it done.
  #12  
Old 04-11-2018, 12:36 PM
Really Not All That Bright Really Not All That Bright is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Florida
Posts: 67,563
Quote:
Originally Posted by susan View Post
I'm not sure that 2 months is sufficient time to evaluate the impact.
I'm sure it isn't. You might as well say the Civil Rights Movement was a failure because there was no federal legislation within two months of the 1952 Mississippi gas station boycotts.

Last edited by Really Not All That Bright; 04-11-2018 at 12:36 PM.
  #13  
Old 04-11-2018, 12:41 PM
Chronos Chronos is offline
Charter Member
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: The Land of Cleves
Posts: 76,960
Plus, one of the things that some of the students are doing is running for office themselves. The elections aren't until November.

Quote:
Quoth DavidwithanR:

They want legislators to be prepared to sacrifice history and sacrifice principles, in order to get it done.
They want legislators to recognize history. And if your principles are bad ones, then they should be sacrificed.
  #14  
Old 04-11-2018, 12:55 PM
Ulfreida Ulfreida is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: the western edge.
Posts: 2,722
I'd say getting so many thousands of people to march in favor of gun regulation and an op-ed in the NYT proposing repealing the 2nd Amendment, by a former Supreme Court judge, is quite a bit so far.

I would say the NRA is at minimum back on its heels.
  #15  
Old 04-11-2018, 12:56 PM
DavidwithanR DavidwithanR is offline
Suspended
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 1,893
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chronos View Post
They want legislators to recognize history. And if your principles are bad ones, then they should be sacrificed.
Yes. I meant sacrifice history as in "F**k the constitution, just fix the problem".
  #16  
Old 04-11-2018, 01:54 PM
RickJay RickJay is offline
Charter Jays Fan
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Oakville, Canada
Posts: 39,452
I find it appallingly disingenuous to either say "welp, they failed 'cause it's been two whole months" or, as DavidwithaR does, to blatantly misstate their goals.

What they have been trying to do is to move their country in the direction of more reasonable gun control legislation. Considering it's only been two months, a lot of progress has been made.

Absolutely the first thing you would have to do to change the gun control situation in the United States is break the power of the NRA. The Parkland kids have done a really good job of making the NRA and its spokespeople look like shitheads in the eyes of a lot of folks who did not previously think they were shitheads. They have started a pretty serious conversation about targeting politicians in the NRA back pocket and getting them voted out. They have rather dramatically exposed that NRA mouthpieces can be shamed down in the court of public opinion and advertising dollars. Far, far more has been done since Parkland than in the wake of the Sandy Hook horror, and after Sandy Hook a lot of people quite understandable figured the United States would be awash in guns forever.

This isn't going to prevent any mass shootings in 2018 and probably not in 2028, but if you're seventeen years old you're in it for the long haul, aren't you?
__________________
Providing useless posts since 1999!
  #17  
Old 04-11-2018, 01:58 PM
Jacquernagy Jacquernagy is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Fenario
Posts: 1,513
Quote:
Originally Posted by enalzi View Post
I don't think "Repeal the 2nd amendment and confiscate all guns in two months" was the goal here.

From 538, in the last two months (more details in the link):
Right.

There are, indeed, some people on the left who are literally calling for gun confiscation. Every time you see someone post that we need the same gun laws that Australia and Japan has, that's what they are saying. I wish they'd stop saying this. I don't agree with them at all. I think their rhetoric just gives validation to the worst of the PRO-gun talking points. But nonetheless they are free to put forth their position, as are all of us.

However, I don't believe this is reflective of the overall aims of this youth movement that has arisen to call for gun control. For one, I don't think they have one monolithic singular goal; and insomuch as they do have one, I think it revolves mostly around the restriction of "assault weapons".

Now, as to that point, I am not sure that bans of these weapons will be enacted. I don't really think the political capital exists for it, and I think a lot of liberals who don't know about guns (the ones who say "you don't need an AR-15 to hunt deer") don't really understand just how many of these rifles are out there and how popular they are. Just about every military veteran that I know, among my peer group (25 to 35 years old), has one of these rifles and likes shooting them (and some people do, in fact, hunt with them.) There have been attempts to ban or restrict them in the past, at the federal level, and they never really seemed to accomplish much.

But if these people can get some measures passed like improving the background check system, improving the methods that are used to flag potentially-dangerous people, possibly increasing the age from 18 to 21 for certain weapons, yeah I think it could make a difference.
  #18  
Old 04-11-2018, 02:06 PM
Ashtura Ashtura is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 775
Certain states are still making hard pushes for gun bans.
  #19  
Old 04-11-2018, 02:12 PM
Jacquernagy Jacquernagy is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Fenario
Posts: 1,513
Depending on the states, that could be a bad idea for the Democrats in the upcoming elections. If they're solidly blue, it's more feasible.
  #20  
Old 04-11-2018, 02:41 PM
Whack-a-Mole Whack-a-Mole is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Chicago, IL USA
Posts: 19,707
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidwithanR View Post
Yes. I meant sacrifice history as in "F**k the constitution, just fix the problem".
Maybe you need to re-take your civics class because congress cannot do that and expect it to stick.
  #21  
Old 04-11-2018, 03:17 PM
jasg jasg is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Upper left hand corner
Posts: 5,080
It took the NRA forty years after the Cincinnati Revolt to get us to this point. Sadly, it may take as long for a rational approach to firearms - as we had when America Was Great - to return.

Social change is hard.
__________________
It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into.
~ Jonathan Swift (1667 - 1745)
  #22  
Old 04-11-2018, 04:03 PM
Little Nemo Little Nemo is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Western New York
Posts: 76,917
Quote:
Originally Posted by RickJay View Post
I find it appallingly disingenuous to either say "welp, they failed 'cause it's been two whole months" or, as DavidwithaR does, to blatantly misstate their goals.
I don't think there's anything appalling about the OP. Certainly not in comparison to some of the other things that have been said about the Parkland survivors.
  #23  
Old 04-11-2018, 04:40 PM
Bryan Ekers Bryan Ekers is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Montreal, QC
Posts: 57,147
I doubt the more politically savvy students had any illusions they were going to get significant legislative changes with the current president and congress. For them, the real prize is an effect on the midterms if they can keep momentum. The OP should ask the question again in January.
__________________
Don't worry about the end of Inception. We have top men working on it right now. Top. Men.
  #24  
Old 04-11-2018, 05:59 PM
DavidwithanR DavidwithanR is offline
Suspended
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 1,893
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whack-a-Mole View Post
Maybe you need to re-take your civics class because congress cannot do that and expect it to stick.
I've argued before (not this thread) that some of what intelligent Americans learn in well-taught civics classes is actually the problem not the solution.
  #25  
Old 04-11-2018, 06:57 PM
boffking boffking is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: New England
Posts: 2,464
Is there any evidence that clear backpacks or checkpoints will do anything to actually stop someone who is determined to commit mass murder? What if the attacker kills people before they reach the security checkpoint?
  #26  
Old 04-11-2018, 07:09 PM
Uzi Uzi is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 4,896
Quote:
Originally Posted by boffking View Post
Is there any evidence that clear backpacks or checkpoints will do anything to actually stop someone who is determined to commit mass murder? What if the attacker kills people before they reach the security checkpoint?
Wouldn't any attacker just shoot the unprepared workers at the security checkpoint before shooting up the rest of the school?

Sent from my SM-N910U using Tapatalk
  #27  
Old 04-11-2018, 07:13 PM
hogarth hogarth is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Toronto
Posts: 6,941
I'm still waiting for Occupy Wall Street to kick in.
  #28  
Old 04-11-2018, 07:19 PM
XT XT is offline
Agnatheist
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: The Great South West
Posts: 33,338
Quote:
Originally Posted by Velocity View Post
In terms of publicity, the Parkland students have brought considerable attention to the gun issue, but in terms of substantive policy, they got clear backpacks and long TSA-like security lines. They hardly got a single gun confiscated in America (there are still 300 million firearms in the nation) and the Second Amendment is no closer to being repealed than it was before. In fact, they now simply face added nuisance (in the article, some female students pointed out that clear backpacks were potentially embarrassing in revealing feminine hygiene items or whatnot.)

It's hard to see this as a "policy win" for them. They got significant coverage, but the policies that were enacted were of only tiny (mostly symbolic) effect and in fact just made their lives more troublesome. A Columbine or Virginia Tech spree remains every bit as possible at any high school in America, tomorrow, as it was the day before the Parkland shooting. A would-be killer still has just about as much access to guns as before.
To early to tell. There seems to be a shift in attitude, and I think their protests typify this shift. IOW, their protest isn't the central movement, they are basically just one part of the overall shift. Where it's going I couldn't say, but no single group is going to be the make or break part of this...it's going to be where public attitude ends up a year or two down the road. If in a year or two the overall public attitude is where it is today, if the general public just shrugs and goes back to watching Survivor (or whatever reality TV show is hot now) then 'they' would have failed. But if it shifts substantially...well, a few small pebbles can start a landslide, or a small bit of snow moving on a hill an avalanche...
__________________
-XT

That's what happens when you let rednecks play with anti-matter!

Last edited by XT; 04-11-2018 at 07:20 PM.
  #29  
Old 04-11-2018, 07:33 PM
asahi asahi is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: On your computer screen
Posts: 5,764
I suspect that in time the Parkland students will probably end up being the victims of overexposure, some of it being self-induced.

I don't give a damn if it happens, though, because yes, I think they got what they wanted, which is a platform to use to make real and transformative change. They've already changed Florida law. They've also essentially gotten the President to use executive orders to make bump stocks more difficult to obtain - and that's in spite of the fact that a Republican president, a Republican Congress, and a Republican state governor are all taking money from a very, very influential gun lobby. Unlike the weeks following previous massacres, "Thoughts and prayers" weren't enough this time. I don't think they're done yet, either.

All pretty impressive stuff if you ask me, considering that they accomplished more than even Barack Obama did in an 8-year time span.
  #30  
Old 04-11-2018, 08:47 PM
Railer13 Railer13 is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Kansas
Posts: 376
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashtura View Post
Certain states are still making hard pushes for gun bans.
I have not read any evidence of this. Can you provide a cite, please?
  #31  
Old 04-11-2018, 09:08 PM
nearwildheaven nearwildheaven is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 10,079
Quote:
Originally Posted by enalzi View Post
I don't think "Repeal the 2nd amendment and confiscate all guns in two months" was the goal here.
It wasn't the goal in ANY length of time. They just want what most Americans want - existing laws enforced and weapons kept away from people who should not have them.
  #32  
Old 04-11-2018, 09:21 PM
Jacquernagy Jacquernagy is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Fenario
Posts: 1,513
Quote:
Originally Posted by nearwildheaven View Post
It wasn't the goal in ANY length of time. They just want what most Americans want - existing laws enforced and weapons kept away from people who should not have them.
I'm not sure that is accurate to say.

I see an awful lot of people calling for a class of weapons that are currently legal and widely available, to be banned outright. This is neither "enforcing existing laws" nor "keeping them away from people who should not have them", unless the latter category is to mean "all people in America."

This is a pretty important distinction to make.
  #33  
Old 04-12-2018, 06:11 AM
Bryan Ekers Bryan Ekers is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Montreal, QC
Posts: 57,147
February 1st, 1956: "Huh, it's been two months since that Teresa Perks woman got arrested on that bus. Did anything come of that?"
__________________
Don't worry about the end of Inception. We have top men working on it right now. Top. Men.
  #34  
Old 04-12-2018, 06:14 AM
Ludovic Ludovic is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: America's Wing
Posts: 28,175
Quote:
Originally Posted by hogarth View Post
I'm still waiting for Occupy Wall Street to kick in.
Oh, it's occupied alright, just by a different set of folks than expected.
  #35  
Old 04-12-2018, 06:52 AM
BobLibDem BobLibDem is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Home 07 NCAA HockeyChamps
Posts: 20,155
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce Wayne View Post
Their foot in the door to a career in politics or an internship at CNN.
I can buy the first part, but I think the second is a little batty. Sure, a lot of these kids are a lot more politically active before. They've found a cause and some among them have discovered their inner leadership skills. That's a good thing. True leaders don't just stumble into it or find that they have nothing else to do, true leaders are inspired by something. They're sick of seeing kids carried out of their schools in body bags and that's calling them to public service.

As for CNN, that's just a bogeyman for the right wing. By and large, they're pretty much apolitical in their coverage. Of course, some of their number will be the journalists of tomorrow and a handful may be more inspired to become journalists as it is in essence the fourth branch of government. Citing CNN seems like a knee-jerk right wing response to this whole thing.
  #36  
Old 04-12-2018, 09:22 AM
k9bfriender k9bfriender is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 8,023
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uzi View Post
Wouldn't any attacker just shoot the unprepared workers at the security checkpoint before shooting up the rest of the school?

Sent from my SM-N910U using Tapatalk
Or wait outside for dismissal, outdoor gym activities, football practice, or recess.

Going this route is not just securing the building, but an entire perimeter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacquernagy View Post
I'm not sure that is accurate to say.

I see an awful lot of people calling for a class of weapons that are currently legal and widely available, to be banned outright. This is neither "enforcing existing laws" nor "keeping them away from people who should not have them", unless the latter category is to mean "all people in America."

This is a pretty important distinction to make.
It would be accurate to say, if we are talking about what the parkland students are asking for, and what most reasonable people are asking for. You are correct that if you do some digging, you can find people that would want to do some level of confiscation and banning, but that is not the conversation that is being had, and bringing up people who are not part of the conversation is just a distraction from the conversation that is going on.

I've seen people on the gun rights side call for sodomizing the parkland students with incandescent fireplace tools, should we assume that that is an accurate summation of your position as well, or do you think that the conversation can be had without bringing other people into it?
  #37  
Old 04-12-2018, 09:58 AM
MichaelEmouse MichaelEmouse is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 6,198
They got the Reptilian party scared by pioneering an example on how to communicate your message effectively and go after the financial support and organizers of their enemies. They're scared enough that they'll even post desperate pleas to "please stop!" by pretending that it's useless because no major legislation has been passed after 2 months.
  #38  
Old 04-12-2018, 10:52 AM
LoneRhino LoneRhino is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by boffking View Post
Is there any evidence that clear backpacks or checkpoints will do anything to actually stop someone who is determined to commit mass murder? What if the attacker kills people before they reach the security checkpoint?
Do you lock your door at night? Is there any evidence that a locked door will stop someone determined to break into your house?

Just because something isn't perfect doesn't mean that you do nothing.
  #39  
Old 04-12-2018, 11:11 AM
Bone Bone is offline
Arbitrary and Capricious
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 9,034
I think the Parkland students have been responsible for some of the most successful gun control advances in the country in a long time. It's hard to say exactly who or which group should get credit for a lot of different things happening at in close temporal proximity, but over the last several months, in addition to what enalzi identified in post #4, there's also the fact that:
  • Facebook has greatly curtailed firearm related discussion
  • Youtube heavily restricting firearm related content pushing the most popular firearm related channels off the site - banning things like discussion of ammo reloading, etc.
  • financial institutions like Bank of America are pulling from their investment portfolios companies that invest in firearm related industries
  • Financial transaction processors like Citibank are refusing to process transactions related to firearms
  • Teacher's union withdrawing it's mortgage assistance program through Wells Fargo over it's firearm investment holdings
  • Continued pressure on other institutions like JPMorgan, Visa, Mastercard, AmEx, etc. to reject any purchase of firearms or related items.
  #40  
Old 04-12-2018, 11:28 AM
Bryan Ekers Bryan Ekers is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Montreal, QC
Posts: 57,147
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bone View Post
I think the Parkland students have been responsible for some of the most successful gun control advances in the country in a long time. It's hard to say exactly who or which group should get credit for a lot of different things happening at in close temporal proximity, but over the last several months, in addition to what enalzi identified in post #4, there's also the fact that:
  • Facebook has greatly curtailed firearm related discussion
  • Youtube heavily restricting firearm related content pushing the most popular firearm related channels off the site - banning things like discussion of ammo reloading, etc.
  • financial institutions like Bank of America are pulling from their investment portfolios companies that invest in firearm related industries
  • Financial transaction processors like Citibank are refusing to process transactions related to firearms
  • Teacher's union withdrawing it's mortgage assistance program through Wells Fargo over it's firearm investment holdings
  • Continued pressure on other institutions like JPMorgan, Visa, Mastercard, AmEx, etc. to reject any purchase of firearms or related items.
Add to that, Hillary Clinton not getting elected. If history's any guide, Clinton45 would have inspired people who already have guns to buy lots more guns, out of whipped-up fears their earlier guns were going to be taken away.
__________________
Don't worry about the end of Inception. We have top men working on it right now. Top. Men.
  #41  
Old 04-12-2018, 11:41 AM
ElvisL1ves ElvisL1ves is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: The land of the mouse
Posts: 46,499
All of those things are evidence that the dam is cracking and sanity may finally be about to break out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by k9bfriender View Post
Or wait outside for dismissal, outdoor gym activities, football practice, or recess.

Going this route is not just securing the building, but an entire perimeter.
The kids have to go home sometime ...
  #42  
Old 04-12-2018, 12:22 PM
Jacquernagy Jacquernagy is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Fenario
Posts: 1,513
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bone View Post
  • Facebook has greatly curtailed firearm related discussion
  • Youtube heavily restricting firearm related content pushing the most popular firearm related channels off the site - banning things like discussion of ammo reloading, etc.
As a Democrat - well, not a registered Democrat but a Democratic-voting independent who plans on voting Democratic - I worry that these two things could backfire very very badly. Especially the Facebook issue.

Everything else you listed is stuff that most people don't really think about day-to-day, and anything relating to those businesses and financial institutions is removed from the reality of most peoples' lives. But Facebook and Youtube aren't.

Facebook and Youtube ARE a lot of peoples' lives. Facebook and Youtube are how American voters, especially the ones under 50, interface with the reality of their lives. Anything involving the restriction of social media is going to be inherently contentious. Yes, they're private companies. Of course. The free market, yeah, yeah, you'd think conservatives would understand. But it isn't that simple. The lines between the free market and the free exchange of ideas are continually blurred in political debate. It's the optics that matter.

It doesn't really seem like Facebook has gone that far with this idea of limiting gun-related posts, since I still see them. But if they go too far with it, it is really, really going to piss a lot of people off. If enough people get their hackles up over it, the upcoming elections, including the Presidential election, are going to become a referendum on gun control. I really, really, really don't want that. That way lies disaster.
  #43  
Old 04-12-2018, 03:00 PM
Ashtura Ashtura is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 775
Quote:
Originally Posted by Railer13 View Post
I have not read any evidence of this. Can you provide a cite, please?
Delaware, for one.

Delaware is a solidly blue state with a paltry 5.2% gun ownership, the lowest in the country. I don't know how realistic it's passage will be, but I imagine its far more realistic than in most states. Even California is at 19.8%.
  #44  
Old 04-12-2018, 03:05 PM
Oakminster Oakminster is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Surefall Glade, Antonica
Posts: 18,900
I think the kids were callously manipulated by those willing to take advantage of their youthful energy and naivety to further a repugnant agenda. Glad to see their "movement" starting to fizzle out, much like all that "Occupy" nonsense a few years ago.
__________________
"Yes, but that's because you're a wild human, not a tame human. The likes of you would have to be kept in a zoo, and the keepers would be very careful to never put their tentacles inside the bars"--Lemur866 describing Oak, 11/13/09
Molon labe--Leonidas I
  #45  
Old 04-12-2018, 03:09 PM
Czarcasm Czarcasm is online now
Charter Member
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 55,991
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oakminster View Post
I think the kids were callously manipulated by those willing to take advantage of their youthful energy and naivety to further a repugnant agenda. Glad to see their "movement" starting to fizzle out, much like all that "Occupy" nonsense a few years ago.
Yeah, you go with that.
  #46  
Old 04-12-2018, 04:02 PM
k9bfriender k9bfriender is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 8,023
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oakminster View Post
I think the kids were callously manipulated by those willing to take advantage of their youthful energy and naivety to further a repugnant agenda. Glad to see their "movement" starting to fizzle out, much like all that "Occupy" nonsense a few years ago.
I don't think the person who was shooting their classmates was really trying to start a movement.

To the point of organization, have any of you actually been in high school? You remember the student council and other busybodies that were always trying to get your to come to some rally or another? These are the people that did the organization. They were already there, frothing about, trying to get students to take notice and attend their events.

Well, something happened that made students take notice, and rather than walk by and ignore that person passing out leaflets, they stopped and engaged with them, as it became something that had an impact on their lives.
  #47  
Old 04-13-2018, 08:50 AM
Some Call Me... Tim Some Call Me... Tim is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2000
Posts: 1,681
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryan Ekers View Post
Add to that, Hillary Clinton not getting elected. If history's any guide, Clinton45 would have inspired people who already have guns to buy lots more guns, out of whipped-up fears their earlier guns were going to be taken away.
It's pretty amazing how the Parkland students are responsible for Hillary Clinton not getting elected. Their effects stretch both forward and backward in time!
  #48  
Old 04-13-2018, 09:23 AM
madmonk28 madmonk28 is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 11,060
They started a process that will go on for a while. Usually in America when there is mass murder, if the perpetrator is white we just say, "well, waddya gonna do?" This time was different. There will certainly be another mass murder very soon and it's clear that it won't be business as usual, thoughts and prayers won't be enough to make it go away and people will stay mobilized on the issue, including at the ballot box.
  #49  
Old 04-13-2018, 10:17 AM
Railer13 Railer13 is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Kansas
Posts: 376
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashtura View Post
Certain states are still making hard pushes for gun bans.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashtura View Post
So one state (Delaware) is proposing a block on the sale, transfer, and import on automatic and semi-automatic firearms, but no other types of guns. And if you own one of these weapons, you can still keep it. IMO, that's not quite up to your original assertion of 'states are still making hard pushes for gun bans.'
  #50  
Old 04-13-2018, 12:44 PM
RTFirefly RTFirefly is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Maryland
Posts: 35,476
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chronos View Post
Of course they didn't get what they wanted. What they wanted was for their friends and classmates to not get killed. It's too easy to lapse into thinking that this whole thing is just a ploy for attention, but if you'd ask any one of them if they'd trade that attention for getting their friends back, every one of them would say yes.
This.
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:57 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

Send questions for Cecil Adams to: cecil@straightdope.com

Send comments about this website to: webmaster@straightdope.com

Terms of Use / Privacy Policy

Advertise on the Straight Dope!
(Your direct line to thousands of the smartest, hippest people on the planet, plus a few total dipsticks.)

Publishers - interested in subscribing to the Straight Dope?
Write to: sdsubscriptions@chicagoreader.com.

Copyright 2018 STM Reader, LLC.

 
Copyright © 2017