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  #101  
Old 05-24-2018, 12:14 PM
Velocity Velocity is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ISiddiqui View Post
Also, a Christian, I get amused by the notion that kneeling is disrespectful. Usually in churches with kneelers when there is an option to either "stand or kneel" (for prayers such), most decide to kneel because it is feels more respectful.
Context and intention. In a stadium where everyone is standing and everyone else on the sideline is standing, and it is generally accepted that one stands for the flag during the anthem, kneeling is deliberately intended to have a contrary intent.
  #102  
Old 05-24-2018, 12:21 PM
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Context and intention.
That can't be it, because those who are pushing that this is unpatriotic aren't using either context or intention.

Last edited by Czarcasm; 05-24-2018 at 12:24 PM.
  #103  
Old 05-24-2018, 12:24 PM
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Originally Posted by doorhinge View Post
The policy subjects teams to a fine if a player or any other team personnel do not show respect for the anthem.[/I]
IMHO making a political protest without worrying that the government is going to kidnap you and beat you to death in a backroom IS respecting the US national anthem.
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  #104  
Old 05-24-2018, 12:25 PM
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Context and intention. In a stadium where everyone is standing and everyone else on the sideline is standing, and it is generally accepted that one stands for the flag during the anthem, kneeling is deliberately intended to have a contrary intent.
And what did he say his intention was?
  #105  
Old 05-24-2018, 12:28 PM
doorhinge doorhinge is online now
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Originally Posted by Stranger On A Train View Post
Now, are you going to actually explain how ‘taking the knee’ is disrespecting the nation, the flag, or military veterans in any way shape or form, or are you going to continue to dissemble with pointless anecdotes?

That is about the least disturbing reference to Catch-22. I’m just waiting for Trump to start tweeting, “What’s good for the Trump Organization is good for America,” and for him to accept contracts with Iran or Syria to start commanding American drones to preemptively attack American ships and airfields.
(post shortened, underline added)

Did you provide your own seemingly pointless anecdote for demonstration purposes, or are you simply starting a new Pelosi-ism to attack Trump with?

p.s. Captain Yossarian never existed. It was Joseph Heller who actually wrote the words attributed to Yossarian. Credit where credit is due and all that.

p.p.s. The asshole Kaepernick's NFL career is over. He is now free to kneel anywhere he wishes, and at any time he wishes. Buh-bye Kaepernick.
  #106  
Old 05-24-2018, 12:40 PM
doorhinge doorhinge is online now
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Originally Posted by Saint Cad View Post
Originally Posted by doorhinge - The policy subjects teams to a fine if a player or any other team personnel do not show respect for the anthem.[/I]

IMHO making a political protest without worrying that the government is going to kidnap you and beat you to death in a backroom IS respecting the US national anthem.

Ahem,
the
NFL
owners
have
agreed
to
fine
their
own
TEAMS
if
players or personnel
do
not
show
respect
for
the
anthem.

The kidnapping of someone, or beating someone to death, seems to be your personal fantasy.
  #107  
Old 05-24-2018, 12:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Mace View Post
Still, it's a crazy ritual-- it's a football game, not a patriots' rally.
I'm not sure of that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Mace View Post
Of this I am absolutely certain. Employers cannot, for example, compel employees to call all black people "niggers", or to chant "Jews will not replace us" on Yom Kippur (or any other time), or to salute each other with "Heil Hitler!".
No, but I can compel an employee to serve a customer wearing a MAGA hat.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidwithanR View Post
Perhaps worse is the way in which forced compliance with patriotism makes all American patriots look weak and insecure. Needing to force compliance is an obvious sign of desperation.
Threatening people to be patriotic "or else" is a poor selling point for patriotism.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leaper View Post
Someone on Reddit pointed out that if this policy was to make the controversy go away, it has a lot of potential to do the exact opposite, by highlighting those who decide to defy it.

I look forward to groups demanding more out of the NFL after that, like a public statement of support for the armed forces and the president. I get giddy thinking of the dilemma.
"Please (and by please, I mean under penalty of law) stand for your 15 minutes of admiration of Supreme (taco) president trump!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grrr! View Post
I remember reading a story about a dude that worked for some big box store. All of the employees had to wear badges that stated: "X" days with out a safety incident. When the number got to 666, one of the employees made a stink about it and refused to wear the badge.

He was fired. And lost his civil case against them in court.
Maybe he should have caused an accident on day 665? Just sayin...

Quote:
Originally Posted by manson1972 View Post
I think so too, but I think I used that one before.
Maybe Haiku?

it is not respect
to stand before an idol
protest is respect
  #108  
Old 05-24-2018, 12:42 PM
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Beginning in 2009 players were required to come out of the locker room for the anthem. If not for this sort of attempt at maximizing the marketing of feel good patriotism, would this have ever been a huge issue?

I see the changes now as a grudging reversion to a more sane era.
  #109  
Old 05-24-2018, 12:49 PM
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I would like to point out that having players stand for the anthem originally started so the owners could get advertising dollars from the Armed Services then were shamed into not accepting the money. It was about $$$ and not patriotism.
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  #110  
Old 05-24-2018, 01:07 PM
begbert2 begbert2 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doorhinge View Post
if
players or personnel
do
not
show
respect
for

the
anthem.

The kidnapping of someone, or beating someone to death, seems to be your personal fantasy.
bolding mine.

Since you typed that instead of:

stand
up
during

you're not in a good position to be criticizing anybody for having personal fantasies.
  #111  
Old 05-24-2018, 01:14 PM
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Alternately we could crack down on corrupt police departments ...
  #112  
Old 05-24-2018, 01:27 PM
k9bfriender k9bfriender is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doorhinge View Post
Ahem,
the
NFL
owners
have
agreed
to
fine
their
own
TEAMS
if
players or personnel
do
not
show
respect
for
the
anthem.

The kidnapping of someone, or beating someone to death, seems to be your personal fantasy.
Something got fouled up with your formatting, you might want to ask a mod to fix that for ya.

In any case, if you note the post you were replying to, he did not say that he was expecting someone to be kidnapped or beaten to death. He does not expect that because we live in a country that has the first amendment and a healthy respect for allowing people to speak out against the govt.

There are other places and times when speaking out against the government resulting in sanction from the govt, up to and including being tortured to death was and is very much a reality, not a fantasy.
  #113  
Old 05-24-2018, 01:28 PM
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Seems like someone ought to send a copy of Justice Robert Jackson's opinion from West Virginia Board of Education v Barnette:



The case is made difficult not because the principles of its decision are obscure but because the flag involved is our own. Nevertheless, we apply the limitations of the Constitution with no fear that freedom to be intellectually and spiritually diverse or even contrary will disintegrate the social organization. To believe that patriotism will not flourish if patriotic ceremonies are voluntary and spontaneous instead of a compulsory routine is to make an unflattering estimate of the appeal of our institutions to free minds. We can have intellectual individualism and the rich cultural diversities that we owe to exceptional minds only at the price of occasional eccentricity and abnormal attitudes. When they are so harmless to others or to the State as those we deal with here, the price is not too great. But freedom to differ is not limited to things that do not matter much. That would be a mere shadow of freedom. The test of its substance is the right to differ as to things that touch the heart of the existing order.

If there is any fixed star in our constitutional constellation, it is that no official, high or petty, can prescribe what shall be orthodox in politics, nationalism, religion, or other matters of opinion or force citizens to confess by word or act their faith therein. If there are any circumstances which permit an exception, they do not now occur to us.
  #114  
Old 05-24-2018, 01:51 PM
Ashtura Ashtura is online now
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I repeat, IT DOES NOT MATTER IF IT IS DISRESPECTFUL OR NOT. It doesn't matter what the hell you do in church, or at funerals, or whatever other stupid example you give. The protocol, and this is said at every damn game, even a child knows it, is to stand during the national anthem. Not kneel. Not kneel or stand. Stand. You pointedly don't do that, it's going to give bad optics and be subject to misinterpretation.

There is more ambiguity in remaining seated. Maybe you're back hurts. Maybe you're just lazy. Who knows. Being lazy often goes unnoticed. When you kneel, that's making a deliberate statement. I'm not doing the protocol. On purpose.

ALL that matters is perception.

All that other stuff Kap did? Great, good for him. You aren't going to get misinterpreted by giving to a charity, or talking to the press, or whatever. This just plain had bad optics, it's plainly obvious. Sure, it got people talking. Are black people better off because of it? I seriously doubt it. I sure know Kap isn't better off.
  #115  
Old 05-24-2018, 01:57 PM
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ALL that matters is perception.

Perceptions will never change if you don't challenge them.
  #116  
Old 05-24-2018, 02:03 PM
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I repeat, IT DOES NOT MATTER IF IT IS DISRESPECTFUL OR NOT. It doesn't matter what the hell you do in church, or at funerals, or whatever other stupid example you give. The protocol, and this is said at every damn game, even a child knows it, is to stand during the national anthem. Not kneel. Not kneel or stand. Stand. You pointedly don't do that, it's going to give bad optics and be subject to misinterpretation.

There is more ambiguity in remaining seated. Maybe you're back hurts. Maybe you're just lazy. Who knows. Being lazy often goes unnoticed. When you kneel, that's making a deliberate statement. I'm not doing the protocol. On purpose.

ALL that matters is perception.

All that other stuff Kap did? Great, good for him. You aren't going to get misinterpreted by giving to a charity, or talking to the press, or whatever. This just plain had bad optics, it's plainly obvious. Sure, it got people talking. Are black people better off because of it? I seriously doubt it. I sure know Kap isn't better off.
1. I don't think he did it to benefit himself.
2. Congrats for pointing out that adverse advertising works. The "perception" you keep pointing out was nothing more than a campaign to misdirect people from the issue he was trying to talk about.
  #117  
Old 05-24-2018, 02:06 PM
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I don't think he did it to benefit himself.
Yeah, he'd have to be an idiot. And he is. And given that he's stated he'd stand if he were given a contract today, I'm pretty sure he doesn't think it was worth it.
Quote:
Congrats for pointing out that adverse advertising works. The "perception" you keep pointing out was nothing more than a campaign to misdirect people from the issue he was trying to talk about.
So, you're saying that, on September 1st, everyone booing was already brainwashed by whatever conspiracy campaign you're talking about?

Last edited by Ashtura; 05-24-2018 at 02:08 PM.
  #118  
Old 05-24-2018, 02:10 PM
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Originally Posted by doorhinge View Post
The kidnapping of someone, or beating someone to death, seems to be your personal fantasy.
This’ll get you a warning, doorhinge. It’s expressly against the rules to say that another poster is deriving some sort of gratification from their posts or positions. Ick.
  #119  
Old 05-24-2018, 02:14 PM
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Yeah, he'd have to be an idiot. And he is. And given that he's stated he'd stand if he were given a contract today, I'm pretty sure he doesn't think it was worth it.
So, you're saying that, on September 1st, everyone booing was already brainwashed by whatever conspiracy campaign you're talking about?
I'm sorry-did you miss post #97?
  #120  
Old 05-24-2018, 02:30 PM
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I'm sorry-did you miss post #97?
Okay, so you're saying every single person booing on Sept 1 read a hit piece on Colin Kaepernick? Well, that's a nice theory.
  #121  
Old 05-24-2018, 02:34 PM
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Its a Goddamn football game! It has all the patriotic gravity of a middle school pep rally! If the national anthem is to embody patriotic devotion, to be a ritual of worship, it should not be cheapened and degraded. For sports? If NFL players were shredding each other's brains for their country, that might be one thing.

But for Doritos? Oh, hell, no!
  #122  
Old 05-24-2018, 02:37 PM
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Okay, so you're saying every single person booing on Sept 1 read a hit piece on Colin Kaepernick? Well, that's a nice theory.
Okay, so you are reading responses from some other thread and attributing them to me? I really don't think I am obligated to respond to extreme re-interpretations of what I actually post, so when you decide to dispute what I actually post, let me know.
  #123  
Old 05-24-2018, 02:41 PM
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Exactly. African-American athletes have talked about how they've been targeted by the police for their skin color for years. Kap and the other kneelers have made that conversation more apparent than it was before.

Also, a Christian, I get amused by the notion that kneeling is disrespectful. Usually in churches with kneelers when there is an option to either "stand or kneel" (for prayers such), most decide to kneel because it is feels more respectful.
This is a ridiculous argument.
Kneeling in church is totally different, in terms of context and meaning. This makes as much sense as saying "dropping trou in a bathroom is fine so why can't I do it in a court of law?"
  #124  
Old 05-24-2018, 02:48 PM
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This is a ridiculous argument.
Kneeling in church is totally different, in terms of context and meaning. This makes as much sense as saying "dropping trou in a bathroom is fine so why can't I do it in a court of law?"
Since this is a new thing, where did you get the idea that he was doing it to disrespect anything, up to and including the national anthem and the flag? He said why he was doing it-do you believe he was lying about his intentions?
  #125  
Old 05-24-2018, 02:50 PM
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This is a ridiculous argument.
Kneeling in church is totally different, in terms of context and meaning. This makes as much sense as saying "dropping trou in a bathroom is fine so why can't I do it in a court of law?"
So is flipping off the flag the flag and kneeling before the flag completely the same thing to you?


Seriously, this whole "Black people aren't protesting right" thing is getting a little old.
  #126  
Old 05-24-2018, 02:51 PM
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I have never seen anyone kneel like that to disrespect some ideal, but I have seen it done many times as a sign of someone praying...so what and/or who put the idea in your head that this was some new way to disrespect something?
Images of players praying during sporting events.

Last edited by Czarcasm; 05-24-2018 at 02:54 PM.
  #127  
Old 05-24-2018, 02:54 PM
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Context and intention. In a stadium where everyone is standing and everyone else on the sideline is standing, and it is generally accepted that one stands for the flag during the anthem, kneeling is deliberately intended to have a contrary intent.
Yesterday (literally), I was in a classroom where the Pledge of Allegiance was being recited. I stood respectfully, but despite being a U.S. citizen, I neither recited the words, nor placed my hand over my heart.

Given the context, what do my actions reveal about my intention?
  #128  
Old 05-24-2018, 03:04 PM
Ashtura Ashtura is online now
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Okay, so you are reading responses from some other thread and attributing them to me? I really don't think I am obligated to respond to extreme re-interpretations of what I actually post, so when you decide to dispute what I actually post, let me know.
And what point are you making?

Post 97#

Quote:
That wasn't the first time. He sat the week before and there were plenty of articles about it. We're people booing then?
That's what I'm responding to. People did not boo (to my knowledge), when he remained seated, out of uniform, twice (aug 14th, 20th), and once when he was in uniform on the 26th. He did not take a knee until September 1st. That's the first recorded booing I have.

So, my assumption of your line of thinking, and correct me if I'm wrong, is that everybody booed because they read a hit piece on him, that contradicted his own words?

That's a nice theory, but it also happens to coincide with the first time he kneeled, in uniform, so there's multiple explanations that don't require that theory. The fans did not preemptively boo Kaepernick, it happened a few seconds after he and Reid took a knee (and two players is more conspicuous than 1, that's the first time that happened too).
  #129  
Old 05-24-2018, 03:05 PM
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Since this is a new thing, where did you get the idea that he was doing it to disrespect anything, up to and including the national anthem and the flag? He said why he was doing it-do you believe he was lying about his intentions?
Here is an explicit statement by Eric Reid regarding the intention of Kaepernick and himself in kneeling. Anyone making the argument that this was a gesture intended as a show of disrespect directed at anything except those who would claim that there is no inequality in how black people are treated is being disingeneous to the extreme. It’s purely manufactured outrage over a non-existent slight by the most thin-skinned denialists and flag-draping ‘patriots’ who fear that even the mildest criticism of of any aspect of traditional American society will cause it to collapse into a hot mess of multiculturalism or...something. The upset is so wholly artificial it’s actually difficult to tell what they’re actually upset over except for losing an exclusive status.

Stranger
  #130  
Old 05-24-2018, 03:08 PM
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The upset is so wholly artificial it’s actually difficult to tell what they’re actually upset over except for losing an exclusive status.
Or maybe they're just looking for any excuse to be pissed off at those uppity, ungrateful n****rs, and this will do as well as anything.
  #131  
Old 05-24-2018, 03:09 PM
Ashtura Ashtura is online now
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Yesterday (literally), I was in a classroom where the Pledge of Allegiance was being recited. I stood respectfully, but despite being a U.S. citizen, I neither recited the words, nor placed my hand over my heart.

Given the context, what do my actions reveal about my intention?
You guys keep coming up with non-sequiturs? Any more? That's the pledge of allegiance, not the national anthem. And it was in a school. Which has established case law behind it since 1943.
  #132  
Old 05-24-2018, 03:10 PM
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Just look at all this disrespect going on!
  #133  
Old 05-24-2018, 03:10 PM
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You guys keep coming up with non-sequiturs? Any more? That's the pledge of allegiance, not the national anthem. And it was in a school. Which has established case law behind it since 1943.
And there is dick-all case law against kneeling for the national anthem, and yet you announce that people have to stand as though that's carved in stone.
  #134  
Old 05-24-2018, 03:12 PM
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You guys keep coming up with non-sequiturs? Any more? That's the pledge of allegiance, not the national anthem. And it was in a school. Which has established case law behind it since 1943.
And the player in question has stated directly what his intention was.
Is that also a non-sequitur...or are you saying he was lying?
  #135  
Old 05-24-2018, 03:15 PM
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Here is an explicit statement by Eric Reid regarding the intention of Kaepernick and himself in kneeling. Anyone making the argument that this was a gesture intended as a show of disrespect directed at anything except those who would claim that there is no inequality in how black people are treated is being disingeneous to the extreme. It’s purely manufactured outrage over a non-existent slight by the most thin-skinned denialists and flag-draping ‘patriots’ who fear that even the mildest criticism of of any aspect of traditional American society will cause it to collapse into a hot mess of multiculturalism or...something. The upset is so wholly artificial it’s actually difficult to tell what they’re actually upset over except for losing an exclusive status.

Stranger
Maybe people are upset that the last freakin tradition where americans stood in solidarity for a few moments was going down the crapper. But no, it HAS be be about race, doesn't it?
  #136  
Old 05-24-2018, 03:17 PM
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And the player in question has stated directly what his intention was.
Is that also a non-sequitur...or are you saying he was lying?
No, for the nth time, I'm saying the optics were bad and nobody is better off for it.
  #137  
Old 05-24-2018, 03:18 PM
begbert2 begbert2 is offline
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And what point are you making?

Post 97#



That's what I'm responding to. People did not boo (to my knowledge), when he remained seated, out of uniform, twice (aug 14th, 20th), and once when he was in uniform on the 26th. He did not take a knee until September 1st. That's the first recorded booing I have.

So, my assumption of your line of thinking, and correct me if I'm wrong, is that everybody booed because they read a hit piece on him, that contradicted his own words?

That's a nice theory, but it also happens to coincide with the first time he kneeled, in uniform, so there's multiple explanations that don't require that theory. The fans did not preemptively boo Kaepernick, it happened a few seconds after he and Reid took a knee (and two players is more conspicuous than 1, that's the first time that happened too).
My assumption would be that the people who bood bood because they they were confused and, having some critical shortage of brain cells, somehow connected "kneeling" to "disrespect" despite that being quite literally among the dumbest things I've ever heard. Kneeling has precisely two meanings:

1) You are showing submission, subservience, or respect

or

2) Your shoe is untied.


To assume that somebody kneeling is being disrespectful is stupid, full stop. (To keep assuming that after you've been explicitly corrected by the person doing it is even stupider, full stop.) If there's a non-moronic argument defending this particular moronic leap of faith, I've yet to hear it.

That said - some people are morons. (I'd be willing to hazard that foodball game audiences have more than their statistical share of morons, but that's mostly because I don't watch football.) In any sufficiently large crowd I would expect a certain amount of booing at any unexpected action. That's not an indicator that the booing was in any way justified.
  #138  
Old 05-24-2018, 03:19 PM
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Students being taught by someone who regards protest as "disrespectful" to America are confused about the fundamentals of the American system? Gee, I wonder why....
Wow, you're a dick.

Tell the moderator, I don't care. You are and always will be a dick.

No need to ban me. I'm gone.
  #139  
Old 05-24-2018, 03:20 PM
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No, for the nth time, I'm saying the optics were bad and nobody is better off for it.
They pretty much exactly said that about letting minorities play in professional sports.
  #140  
Old 05-24-2018, 03:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Ashtura View Post
No, for the nth time, I'm saying the optics were bad and nobody is better off for it.
It's my understanding that people have started paying more attention to BLM-type stuff as a result of it, so it's very odd that you keep repeating the demonstrably false claim that "nobody is better off for it".

I will agree that "the optics were bad" - there were whole networks of lying bigots deliberately trying to paint them as bad, and that counts as "optics".
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Old 05-24-2018, 03:21 PM
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Maybe people are upset that the last freakin tradition where americans stood in solidarity for a few moments was going down the crapper. But no, it HAS be be about race, doesn't it?
1. It hasn't been a tradition for players for that long, and it has already been explained to you how it started.
2. Kneeling was a sign of prayer, not disrespect, until this kerfluffle.
3. If you've got a better explanation for this manufactured disrespect, I'd like to hear it.
  #142  
Old 05-24-2018, 03:27 PM
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Forced patriotism is counterproductive. That said, the precedent has been established that whoever can manipulate the largest mob can dictate terms.
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Old 05-24-2018, 03:30 PM
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You guys keep coming up with non-sequiturs? Any more? That's the pledge of allegiance, not the national anthem. And it was in a school. Which has established case law behind it since 1943.
I wasn't talking about the law. I was responding to Velocity, who said that one's intention could be discerned from one's actions and the context.

So having committed a similar action in a similar context*, I wanted to know what my intention must have been.

*If anything, the PoA is a much bigger deal than the National Anthem. The PoA is a group pledge of loyalty to the United States of America, which I was visibly declining to participate in, in front of a classroom full of fifth-graders, yet. The Anthem is a recounting, in song, of an incident that was part of a battle during the War of 1812. The significance of nonparticipation in singing or standing for the Anthem has basically been made up on the fly.

(And those fans at Oriole Park at Camden Yards who shout "O!" in the middle of the National Anthem - clearly they ought to be thrown out of the country! )
  #144  
Old 05-24-2018, 03:31 PM
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1. It hasn't been a tradition for players for that long, and it has already been explained to you how it started.
2. Kneeling was a sign of prayer, not disrespect, until this kerfluffle.
3. If you've got a better explanation for this manufactured disrespect, I'd like to hear it.
Hey, I don't watch football, don't go to church, and guess what, I don't have cable and watch Fox News! But I am familiar enough with the proceedings to realize this outrage was not necessarily artificially manufactured. Begbert claims this was misinterpreted by "confused morons". Well, maybe that is true. I am not going to dispute that claim. But part of being a good communicator is knowing your audience, and if you know there are morons out there, maybe you shouldn't have a muddled message that requires reading interviews to get the full context, and is easy fodder for detractors.

Last edited by Ashtura; 05-24-2018 at 03:33 PM.
  #145  
Old 05-24-2018, 03:38 PM
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Hey, I don't watch football, don't go to church, and guess what, I don't have cable and watch Fox News! But I am familiar enough with the proceedings to realize this outrage was not necessarily artificially manufactured. Begbert claims this was misinterpreted by "confused morons". Well, maybe that is true. I am not going to dispute that claim. But part of being a good communicator is knowing your audience, and if you know there are morons out there, maybe you shouldn't have a muddled message that requires reading interviews to get the full context, and is easy fodder for detractors.
Hey, you sort of forgot to address any of the three points I brought up which(btw) had nothing to do with Fox News, cable, or going to church.
  #146  
Old 05-24-2018, 03:40 PM
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Wow, you're a dick.

Tell the moderator, I don't care. You are and always will be a dick.

No need to ban me. I'm gone.
This is a warning for personal insults. There needn't be talk of banning, but I would suggest cooling off, or using the Pit if that's your thing.

[/moderating]
  #147  
Old 05-24-2018, 03:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Ashtura View Post
Hey, I don't watch football, don't go to church, and guess what, I don't have cable and watch Fox News! But I am familiar enough with the proceedings to realize this outrage was not necessarily artificially manufactured. Begbert claims this was misinterpreted by "confused morons". Well, maybe that is true. I am not going to dispute that claim. But part of being a good communicator is knowing your audience, and if you know there are morons out there, maybe you shouldn't have a muddled message that requires reading interviews to get the full context, and is easy fodder for detractors.
I know, right? How dare people have to read about something before forming conclusions of the intentions of a protestor! It's downright un-American to at least understand an issue before criticizing it!
  #148  
Old 05-24-2018, 03:44 PM
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So was the combat veteran (IIRC) who advised Kaepernick on the kneeling gesture lying to him or doesn’t deserve respect because he’s a Commie, or...?
  #149  
Old 05-24-2018, 03:49 PM
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If the intent should be obvious without all the speechifyin', then what was/is the purpose of all that right-wing speechifyin'?

Last edited by Czarcasm; 05-24-2018 at 03:50 PM.
  #150  
Old 05-24-2018, 03:51 PM
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Originally Posted by astorian View Post
I repeat, there are a million ways prominent African Americans can make their opinions known AND can educate white people who don't understand the issues at stake.

Just to give a personal example (one NOT involving an athlete): I teach at an affluent, predominantly white high school. Our principal, my boss, is an African American male...

{shaggy dog story deleted}

...But refusing to stand for the national anthem doesn't get ANY message out. If Colin Kaepernick thought that would get America's attention so he could tell them about the issues he cares about, he FAILED. Completely. He accomplished NOTHING beyond ticking people off. If you disrespect the flag, you don't make people listen, you make them ANGRY!

Kaepernick had a chance to educate people, but he chose to piss them off instead. That was a wasted opportunity.
Cool story, brah. Now, are you going to actually explain how ‘taking the knee’ is disrespecting the nation, the flag, or military veterans in any way shape or form, or are you going to continue to dissemble with pointless anecdotes?
Do not modify text inside the quote box for editorial purposes. Changing the quote to say {shaggy dog story deleted} is impermissible editorializing.

[/moderating]

Last edited by Bone; 05-24-2018 at 03:51 PM.
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