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  #301  
Old 01-17-2018, 05:47 PM
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I would say she counts.
No wiki page? An extra role then a minor role on a Soap? No notority before the accident? Nah. But I’m used to the game being won win picks that at best barely met the criteria.
  #302  
Old 01-17-2018, 06:42 PM
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Washington State QB Tyler Hilinski is a suicide victim at 21.
I am so very sorry to read this. Saying a prayer for the repose of his soul and for his loved ones to find/experience consolation.
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Old 01-17-2018, 07:41 PM
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She was an actor who appeared in 16 episodes of a soap opera that has more than 6,800 episodes to date. She didn't have a Wikipedia article prior to her death. Wikipedians are currently debating if she fulfilled the criteria for notability or if the article should be deleted.

Is an actor automatically a celebrity if they appear on TV? Would appearing in 16 episodes of, say, The Bold and The Beautiful qualify someone to be called a celebrity? As far as I can tell, Jessica Falkholt was not well known here in Australia until the car accident that caused her death.
It's not up to me, but if it were, I'd say this one deserves a thumbs-down even by our flexible standards.
  #304  
Old 01-17-2018, 07:49 PM
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Jo Jo White, Celtics great and NBA Hall of Famer, dies at 71.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/2...-famer-dies-71
Oh no! He played in some glory years. From memory... and I’m challenging myself, he played with Don Nelson, Paul Silas, John Havlicek, Dave Cowens, ... and he wore #10, didn’t he? Someone here might be a Celtic fan may know.

R.I.P., Jo Jo White, and thank you for the thrills and enjoyment you gave to so many of us.
  #305  
Old 01-17-2018, 07:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Eliahna View Post
Jessica Falkholt - was she a celebrity, or was she only famous due to the accident that caused her fatal injuries?

The Wikipedia article has been marked for deletion and is presently being debated. The point has been made that there are almost no articles in the media that mention her prior to the accident. She appeared in 16 episodes of a soap opera and had an upcoming movie, but that hasn't been released yet. She doesn't appear to have notability that predates the crash.

I had never heard of her prior to the accident that killed her family, but I'm fairly isolated from what's happening in the world of Australian soap operas and probably couldn't identify the current stars of that show either, so I hadn't weighed in before. Just from a brief search I can see no indications that she was a celebrity prior to being involved in that car accident. It grabbed the headlines because it was a case of an entire family being wiped out the day after Christmas by a known drug user with a history of driving disqualifications and, oh look, the daughter's connected with a TV show.

Thoughts?
Since it might be deleted I’ll c&p an excerpt of the tragic event from Wiki — some repeat traffic offender killed them all. Or was at least involved.

“On 26 December 2017, Falkholt was involved in a car crash which killed both her parents instantly. As the vehicle burst into flames, both Jessica and her sister Annabelle, aged 21, were pulled out of the vehicle alive, but Annabelle died on 29 December in Liverpool Hospital. The fifty-year-old driver of the other vehicle was also killed, was reportedly a serial traffic offender. His car failed to negotiate a curve on the Princes Highway, near Sussex Inlet, and travelled into the path of the Falkholts' car. The Falkholts were returning to Ryde after attending Christmas celebrations. Officials confirmed the driver was returning home to Ulladulla, after visiting a methadone clinic in Nowra. Police are investigating whether the drug was a factor in the crash, among other contributing factors.

Following the crash, Falkholt was taken to Sydney's St George Hospital, where she underwent surgery that included the removal of a kidney and part of her skull. On 12 January 2018, a spokesperson for St George Hospital confirmed that her life support had been turned off. She died in hospital on 17 January 2018.”
  #306  
Old 01-17-2018, 09:05 PM
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… She appeared in 16 episodes of a soap opera and had an upcoming movie, but that hasn't been released yet. She doesn't appear to have notability that predates the crash. …
Sarah Rue appeared in only 3 episodes of Big Bang Theory, but she made a strong and lasting impression on me. It is entirely possible that Jessica Falkholt was a tremendous stand-out in her brief run on Home & Away. I sympathize with your position, though, and note that no other DP player picked her prior to Boxing Day (she would have been a massive longshot). We exclude picks who are primarily famous for being ill/distressed, and this looks for all the world like such a case.

Last edited by eschereal; 01-17-2018 at 09:06 PM.
  #307  
Old 01-18-2018, 02:01 AM
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But Sara Rue has also been in movies, and several sitcoms, including "Two & a Half Men." While she may not be a household name, she's familiar to the average tv watcher, I'd think.

I don't have a dog in the fight regarding the actress who just died. I'm just saying.
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  #308  
Old 01-18-2018, 02:55 AM
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Dan Gurley, 14 points and Unique Pick for ataraxy22:

Code:
RankPlayer      ScorePicks(Unique)
1Loach        201(1)
2ataraxy22141(1)
3The Vorlon131(1)
4Rico        101(1)
It's not the lead, but I'm ok with sitting in second this early in the 2018 race...

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  #309  
Old 01-18-2018, 03:13 AM
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  #310  
Old 01-18-2018, 05:18 AM
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This article on TVTonight, an Australian TV blog run by a journalist, lists Jessica Falkholt's other roles including a lead in a feature film. I think that means she counts, if borderline.

Last edited by GuanoLad; 01-18-2018 at 05:19 AM.
  #311  
Old 01-18-2018, 05:20 AM
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Sarah Rue appeared in only 3 episodes of Big Bang Theory, but she made a strong and lasting impression on me. It is entirely possible that Jessica Falkholt was a tremendous stand-out in her brief run on Home & Away. I sympathize with your position, though, and note that no other DP player picked her prior to Boxing Day (she would have been a massive longshot). We exclude picks who are primarily famous for being ill/distressed, and this looks for all the world like such a case.
I feel kind of dirty arguing down the value of her life, but to me this is a clear cut case of someone who is only famous because of the manner of her death. Her death was newsworthy because the accident that claimed her life was so horrific; because she had a link to celebrities via the show she had a guest role on in 2016; because she was photogenic; because it happened at Christmas; because the aftermath of the accident played out over more than three weeks.

Prior to 26 December 2017, I can only find one article that mentions her by name - it's a Daily Mail piece about the filming of a scene from the soap she appeared on, and the primary focus of the article is the other actor from the scene. The debate on Wikipedia about whether she meets notability criteria also refer to only finding a single article from prior to the accident.

Jessica Falkholt was at the beginning of what people say was a promising career, but hadn't had a break that made her a well known name yet. She was headline news only because of the incident that caused her death, and rule 3(g) (in conjunction with rule 14) clearly deems her an invalid pick.

I'd like to note that in previous years I have
a) defended picks who were only famous in Australia when international posters raised them as possible violations of rule 14 - a celebrity in Australia is a celebrity even if they aren't famous outside our borders
b) picked actors who were famous due to appearing on this particular soapie (see: Belinda Emmett, d. 2006) - lead actors and actors in recurring roles on that show very often become household names, but not every brief guest stint produces a celebrity.

I don't believe Jessica Falkholt's career had made her a celebrity prior to her accident.
  #312  
Old 01-18-2018, 06:41 AM
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I feel kind of dirty arguing down the value of her life, but to me this is a clear cut case of someone who is only famous because of the manner of her death.
I have to point out that if there had been no other claim to fame, as Guanolad's article points out:

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Jessica was a NIDA graduate who appeared as waitress Hope Morrison on Home and Away over 16 episodes last year.

She has a role in Nine’s upcoming Bite Club and the title role in the upcoming feature Harmony featuring Jacqueline McKenzie.

Her other credits include Underbelly: Badness & Tricky Business.
Then her fame would indeed be just the accident. But it is not.
  #313  
Old 01-18-2018, 07:37 AM
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This article on TVTonight, an Australian TV blog run by a journalist, lists Jessica Falkholt's other roles including a lead in a feature film. I think that means she counts, if borderline.
The movie she acted in has not been released yet. That only means she had potential to be a celebrity after the movie came out.

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Sarah Rue appeared in only 3 episodes of Big Bang Theory, but she made a strong and lasting impression on me. It is entirely possible that Jessica Falkholt was a tremendous stand-out in her brief run on Home & Away. I sympathize with your position, though, and note that no other DP player picked her prior to Boxing Day (she would have been a massive longshot). We exclude picks who are primarily famous for being ill/distressed, and this looks for all the world like such a case.
Sara Rue is a very bad comparison. She was the star of her own sitcom that ran 4 seasons. She has 58 credits on IMDB many of which she was number 1 or 2 on the call sheet. She had a public struggle with her weight.* I don’t think anyone would question the validity of the star of a 4 season sitcom even if it wasn’t a runaway hit.

* I mention that because it meant stories on shows like Entertainment Tonight.

Last edited by Loach; 01-18-2018 at 07:48 AM.
  #314  
Old 01-18-2018, 07:46 AM
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I have to point out that if there had been no other claim to fame, as Guanolad's article points out:



Then her fame would indeed be just the accident. But it is not.
Yes upcoming film, so she was famous with the cast and crew but not the public. She has one IMDB credit as an extra. The question is if her only other role that anyone might have seen made her a celebrity. This is a soap with over 7,000 episodes and 3,000 credited actors on IMDB. Are every one of those 3,000 celebrities?
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Old 01-18-2018, 08:27 AM
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Yes upcoming film, so she was famous with the cast and crew but not the public. She has one IMDB credit as an extra. The question is if her only other role that anyone might have seen made her a celebrity. This is a soap with over 7,000 episodes and 3,000 credited actors on IMDB. Are every one of those 3,000 celebrities?
IMHO acting is one job where the purpose is to become one, and if there had been no articles about them elsewhere or upcoming movies or tv series in the can, then I would say that those celebrities would not be, as their careers would already not be successful at all or with no future in show business.

Incidentally, I do think that your point of discounting her because the movie has not been released omits that to get such a role in an upcoming movie release does require that producers and directors did recognize that there was talent and enough credit/fame there in her past and present to be considered for a mayor role.

Last edited by GIGObuster; 01-18-2018 at 08:29 AM.
  #316  
Old 01-18-2018, 09:08 AM
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To me Jessica Falkholt counts as a celebrity. But nobody had her, right?
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Old 01-18-2018, 09:24 AM
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I was an extra in three movies and one tv movie.
Am I a celebrity?
  #318  
Old 01-18-2018, 09:43 AM
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I was an extra in three movies and one tv movie.
Am I a celebrity?
Now that truly is sarcasm, Czarcasm.
  #319  
Old 01-18-2018, 10:24 AM
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As an actress approaches January 1 the laws of celebrity begin to break down, and as long as no one watches the obscure soap opera she was on she can be thought of as simultaneously both obscure and famous. She becomes obscure or famous only once the observer checks whether or not she is in a coma.
  #320  
Old 01-18-2018, 11:17 AM
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The movie she acted in has not been released yet. That only means she had potential to be a celebrity after the movie came out.
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Yes upcoming film, so she was famous with the cast and crew but not the public.
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Originally Posted by GIGObuster View Post
Incidentally, I do think that your point of discounting her because the movie has not been released omits that to get such a role in an upcoming movie release does require that producers and directors did recognize that there was talent and enough credit/fame there in her past and present to be considered for a mayor role.
But as Loach says, producers and directors are not the public. No matter how well she is known among them, a celebrity is, by definition, someone who is well known to the general public, or some interest group within the general public. The producers and directors may have recognized her talent, which gave her good prospects of becoming famous upon release of the movie, but that fame hadn't arrived before her ultimately fatal accident did.

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As an actress approaches January 1 the laws of celebrity begin to break down, and as long as no one watches the obscure soap opera she was on she can be thought of as simultaneously both obscure and famous. She becomes obscure or famous only once the observer checks whether or not she is in a coma.
Whatever you say, Dr. Schrödinger.
  #321  
Old 01-18-2018, 11:38 AM
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But as Loach says, producers and directors are not the public. No matter how well she is known among them, a celebrity is, by definition, someone who is well known to the general public, or some interest group within the general public. The producers and directors may have recognized her talent, which gave her good prospects of becoming famous upon release of the movie, but that fame hadn't arrived before her ultimately fatal accident did.
I was making the point that while they are indeed an interest group, they also had to look at the recognition an actress got among the public, that of course was mostly Australian, but that was not an issue that prevented consideration before AFAICR.

I frankly thought that there would be more of a controversy for Kamala, or the paraplegic Olympian. While some as King Kong Bundy or Hulk Hogan are well known, guys like Kamala may had been known more to Americans, but I only became aware of Kamala after I made a search. Point being that just because I did not know about a guy like Kamala before it is not a good reason to assume that others had not pegged him as a celebrity and I found articles to show that that was the case, so it was with Jessica Falkholt for me and others too.

In any case I have to notice that Phungi is allowing her to qualify.

Last edited by GIGObuster; 01-18-2018 at 11:41 AM.
  #322  
Old 01-18-2018, 12:03 PM
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IMHO acting is one job where the purpose is to become one, and if there had been no articles about them elsewhere or upcoming movies or tv series in the can, then I would say that those celebrities would not be, as their careers would already not be successful at all or with no future in show business.

Incidentally, I do think that your point of discounting her because the movie has not been released omits that to get such a role in an upcoming movie release does require that producers and directors did recognize that there was talent and enough credit/fame there in her past and present to be considered for a mayor role.
Everyday unknown actors are given roles. Why they are given the role is up to the producers. Nothing guarantees that the project will get wide release, any recognition or make the actor famous.

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I was making the point that while they are indeed an interest group, they also had to look at the recognition an actress got among the public, that of course was mostly Australian, but that was not an issue that prevented consideration before AFAICR.

I frankly thought that there would be more of a controversy for Kamala, or the paraplegic Olympian. While some as King Kong Bundy or Hulk Hogan are well known, guys like Kamala may had been known more to Americans, but I only became aware of Kamala after I made a search. Point being that just because I did not know about a guy like Kamala before it is not a good reason to assume that others had not pegged him as a celebrity and I found articles to show that that was the case, so it was with Jessica Falkholt for me and others too.

In any case I have to notice that Phungi is allowing her to qualify.
Kamala was a well known figure in the 80s. I remember joking with my friends that one of our teachers had the same body shape. It’s pretty easy to see that he qualifies by his internet mentions prior to being sick. He was a celebrity in the pro wrestling world for decades.

The actress we are speaking of had no wiki page and another poster can only find her name mentioned in passing in one article about someone else prior to her accident. That’s several mentions less than you can find for me. She became news and gained notoriety because of the horrific nature of her injury and eventual death.

Every year there are a few picks like this. It won’t change. I make sure I don’t pick anyone like this but it’s mostly up to the individual to play within the spirit of the game.
  #323  
Old 01-18-2018, 12:05 PM
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To me Jessica Falkholt counts as a celebrity. But nobody had her, right?
Three did. All picked after the accident. Which makes sense because there are no articles about her before the accident.
  #324  
Old 01-18-2018, 12:38 PM
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Three did. All picked after the accident. Which makes sense because there are no articles about her before the accident.
If she was picked only after the accident, I would say Rules 3.g and 14 definitely come into play, and that she should be disqualified. IMHO.
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Old 01-18-2018, 12:52 PM
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Give it up, folks! She's a celebrity.
  #326  
Old 01-18-2018, 01:02 PM
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I tend to think rather liberally when it comes to "celebrities" and the death pool. Since there is no money involved, we are left with pride and honor. If a Connecticut weatherman with cancer is allowed to "count", I think a young but obscure Australian actress can count. I am just mad that I didn't find and include her.

It's not like Team Dirt, basset hound, GIGObuster are actually going to win this thing...
  #327  
Old 01-18-2018, 01:12 PM
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But he won't die!
  #328  
Old 01-18-2018, 01:36 PM
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I tend to think rather liberally when it comes to "celebrities" and the death pool. Since there is no money involved, we are left with pride and honor. If a Connecticut weatherman with cancer is allowed to "count", I think a young but obscure Australian actress can count. I am just mad that I didn't find and include her.

It's not like Team Dirt, basset hound, GIGObuster are actually going to win this thing...
Yeah it’s stretching it but he’s a guy who was on TV almost daily for 30 years even if it was local.

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Give it up, folks! She's a celebrity.
I am too!
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Old 01-18-2018, 02:40 PM
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Kamala was a well known figure in the 80s. I remember joking with my friends that one of our teachers had the same body shape. It’s pretty easy to see that he qualifies by his internet mentions prior to being sick. He was a celebrity in the pro wrestling world for decades.
Yes, but that is missing the point, while you did know Kamala, he was a big unknown in other countries, when I was in El Salvador I only got to know Hulk Hogan and other big names because they appeared in other media.

Point being that if there had been a pool back then I would not had been mad but impressed for the ones that had him on the list, no mean feat before the internet age.

For the Australians there were other articles about or mentioning FalkHolt before the crash:

http://www.digitalspy.com/soaps/home...rrington-exit/

https://www.if.com.au/filming-begins...-eamon-farren/

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz...Home-Away.html

In any case, as the Umpire phungi ruled, it stays.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2l6mgg
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Statue of Liberty [comes to life, replying to the Gorilla] "That's what the man said, you heard what he said, he said that, you...!")

Bugs Bunny: "That's what the man said, you heard what he said!"...

Last edited by GIGObuster; 01-18-2018 at 02:41 PM.
  #330  
Old 01-18-2018, 04:40 PM
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Yes, but that is missing the point, while you did know Kamala, he was a big unknown in other countries, when I was in El Salvador I only got to know Hulk Hogan and other big names because they appeared in other media.

Point being that if there had been a pool back then I would not had been mad but impressed for the ones that had him on the list, no mean feat before the internet age.

For the Australians there were other articles about or mentioning FalkHolt before the crash:

http://www.digitalspy.com/soaps/home...rrington-exit/

https://www.if.com.au/filming-begins...-eamon-farren/

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz...Home-Away.html

In any case, as the Umpire phungi ruled, it stays.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2l6mgg
Like I said upthread there are always going to be picks like this. It’s why I’ll never be in the top 10 at the end of the year. I too find non-celebrities that are about to bite it but if I don’t find enough independent information about them to make me believe they have some level of celebrity I won’t play them. I’ve discarded quite a few because of that. I understand that others will chose to not do that. My choice is to play or not and I chose to play. I don’t pick over other people’s lists either but if the subject comes up I’ll give my opinion.

And I wasn’t missing the point with Kamala. I understand the someone not following American pro wrestling would but know him. But using Google it would be easy to see he was famous within that world and was on tv quite a bit. One of the minimum requirements mentioned in the past was for the celebrity to have a Wikipedia page. That is a very low bar. Kamala certainly has a page and had one before he got sick. It was mentioned upthread that this actress did not until her accident.

Last edited by Loach; 01-18-2018 at 04:45 PM.
  #331  
Old 01-18-2018, 05:09 PM
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One of the minimum requirements mentioned in the past was for the celebrity to have a Wikipedia page. That is a very low bar. Kamala certainly has a page and had one before he got sick. It was mentioned upthread that this actress did not until her accident.
I would change my opinion if there is no Wikipedia page. It is a low bar, but one must have some standards. However, that is why we have a death master guy. I posted my candidates rather than submitting by email so that other players could post objections.
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Old 01-18-2018, 05:19 PM
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Had the three who picked her posted their lists prior to the end of 2017? Because this discussion should have taken place, it seems to me, after their picks were announced and before the lady died. Complaining now that they have the points seems like sour grapes to me. And no, I don't think she was a celebrity, but yes I think they get the points.
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Old 01-18-2018, 05:47 PM
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I was making the point that while they are indeed an interest group
They're a group of insiders. They are not the subset of the general public that cares about some particular thing. 'Australian fans of Australian movies' would be a subset of the general public that could regard as a celebrity an Australian actress that wasn't known internationally. 'Producers and directors of Australian movies' isn't the general public of anything.
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they also had to look at the recognition an actress got among the public, that of course was mostly Australian, but that was not an issue that prevented consideration before AFAICR.
The problem with this is that it essentially defines fame - or even the prospect of fame - as retroactive: if a director thinks an actor has been reacted to positively by some sliver of the general public, and gives them a shot at a bigger role, they're already a celebrity by this metric. But if they're already a celebrity, then when they got the minuscule role that gave them the shot at the bigger role, a director had to have seen how they were reacted to positively at some earlier point - maybe on stage in a college production. So they were famous back then. And so forth, until they were a celebrity in preschool.

There's not necessarily any point at which one can say nobody "look[ed] at the recognition an actress got among the public" before then. Yet there had to be some point in a celeb's career at which one has to say, few people have noticed this person yet, they've yet to become a celeb.
  #334  
Old 01-18-2018, 06:50 PM
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They're a group of insiders. They are not the subset of the general public that cares about some particular thing. 'Australian fans of Australian movies' would be a subset of the general public that could regard as a celebrity an Australian actress that wasn't known internationally. 'Producers and directors of Australian movies' isn't the general public of anything.
And that is why I was not making that the whole point. I was mentioning because I do think that they also do take into account the public when choosing an actress. But yes, not a very important reason.

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The problem with this is that it essentially defines fame - or even the prospect of fame - as retroactive:
Only that it was not just that. As I pointed before she would not had qualified if that had been just the sad history of a family dying. It would had been notorious only in Australia if there had not been a claim to fame too. If there had been a lot of news and fame solely because of the accident she would not had pinned the radar. She was recognized for something else, not solely for getting into a comma.

Last edited by GIGObuster; 01-18-2018 at 06:52 PM.
  #335  
Old 01-18-2018, 07:12 PM
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Only that it was not just that. As I pointed before she would not had qualified if that had been just the sad history of a family dying. It would had been notorious only in Australia if there had not been a claim to fame too.
Retroactive again, this time in the sense that there was this horrible accident, and they found something in her background to make it look like she was more notable than she actually was.
Quote:
If there had been a lot of news and fame solely because of the accident she would not had pinned the radar.
'Pinned the radar'? The words are English, but that doesn't mean the concatenation has meaning.
Quote:
She was recognized for something else, not solely for getting into a comma.
Punctuation jokes aside, retroactive. Like I said.

Her fame prior to the accident was negligible. It's like the old saw about death being a good career move.
  #336  
Old 01-18-2018, 07:26 PM
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Had the three who picked her posted their lists prior to the end of 2017? Because this discussion should have taken place, it seems to me, after their picks were announced and before the lady died. Complaining now that they have the points seems like sour grapes to me. And no, I don't think she was a celebrity, but yes I think they get the points.
Well, we've got a problem there. You can post your list in for a year (e.g. 2018) right up to the deadline, when there's no time to challenge the picks in the preceding year (2017). Which is why our Death Shroom, in his wisdom, put the following in the rules:
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Questions may be raised about the appropriateness of a pick at any point after a list is posted, even after 1/1/18. Alternates picks play an important role, as "questionable" picks may be disqualified post-posting.
Note the absence of any end date for questioning the appropriateness of a pick. I tend to think there should be some deadline for doing so - perhaps a week or two into the new year - so that those of us who've been raising questions over the past day or so would have had a 'put up or shut up' date to examine picks by. In the absence of such a deadline, the precipitating event for raising such questions is naturally going to be the death of such a borderline celebrity.

But that's a suggestion for the 2019 Death Pool. For the 2018 DP, the rules are what they are.
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Old 01-18-2018, 07:28 PM
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Retroactive again, this time in the sense that there was this horrible accident, and they found something in her background to make it look like she was more notable than she actually was.'Pinned the radar'? The words are English, but that doesn't mean the concatenation has meaning.Punctuation jokes aside, retroactive. Like I said.

Her fame prior to the accident was negligible. It's like the old saw about death being a good career move.
Sorry, that was supposed to be "Ping the radar". Again, nothing would had been reported if it was just a fiery crash. It seems to me that the retroactive thing is to refuse to notice that it was not solely because of the crash.
  #338  
Old 01-18-2018, 07:30 PM
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Old 01-18-2018, 07:54 PM
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Had the three who picked her posted their lists prior to the end of 2017? Because this discussion should have taken place, it seems to me, after their picks were announced and before the lady died. Complaining now that they have the points seems like sour grapes to me. And no, I don't think she was a celebrity, but yes I think they get the points.
Team Dirt posted his picks about 9+ hours to the deadline. basset hound posted with about 20 minutes to go. And GIGObuster used the online form, so we did not see his picks until after the game was underway. There was really not opportunity for discussion.
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Old 01-18-2018, 07:58 PM
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I said I thought they should get the points. I know what the rules say. I just think all this on-and-on SDMB-style argument is sour grapes.
I stand by that.

Last edited by kayT; 01-18-2018 at 07:58 PM.
  #341  
Old 01-18-2018, 08:38 PM
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Meanwhile in other dead guy news, John Barton the co-founder and director of the Royal Shakespeare Company has died.


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Barton_(director)
  #342  
Old 01-18-2018, 10:16 PM
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Meanwhile in other dead guy news, John Barton the co-founder and director of the Royal Shakespeare Company has died.


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Barton_(director)
The link doesn't work for me. Does he still count?
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Old 01-18-2018, 11:56 PM
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The link doesn't work for me. Does he still count?
Try this?
  #344  
Old 01-19-2018, 12:10 AM
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  #345  
Old 01-19-2018, 07:38 AM
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I said I thought they should get the points. I know what the rules say. I just think all this on-and-on SDMB-style argument is sour grapes.
I stand by that.
C'mon, you're a 99er like me! You know full well that "all this on-and-on SDMB-style argument" is what we DO here, it's what we live for!
  #346  
Old 01-19-2018, 07:55 AM
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It's not like Team Dirt, basset hound, GIGObuster are actually going to win this thing...
I'm guessing there was a smiley missing there, because basset hound finished a pretty close 3rd in 2017 with 303 points, and got the award for most corpses. The other two didn't do badly either - GIGObuster finished 11th and Team Dirt was 18th.
  #347  
Old 01-19-2018, 08:06 AM
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Three did. All picked after the accident. Which makes sense because there are no articles about her before the accident.
Ahh, the ambulance chasers. Thanks. Smart move.

Jessica Falkholt dies, and there’s a ton of news articles about it, and her? Give them the points. If a non-celebrity dies in an accident there isn’t much written.

She’s a celebrity.

ETA: if you accept this statement as true, “If a non-celebrity dies in an accident there isn’t much written”, then its logical contrapositive is also true: if there are many articles written, then a celebrity has died.

QED

Last edited by Bullitt; 01-19-2018 at 08:10 AM.
  #348  
Old 01-19-2018, 08:33 AM
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Perhaps rules 4 and 14 need revising:
Rule 4: If you have any questions about who is or is not a celebrity, feel free to post to the thread or PM me. This is why we include 3 alternates, so if a pick is designated to be invalid, your first alternate will be elevated to your list.

Rule 14: Determination of who is a celebrity will remain a subjective matter, but generally defined as "the person has some known presence in the form of a Wikipedia Page and/or notoriety in the news or such" and their fame or celebrity cannot be based solely on their having a terminal illness". Sole possession of a Wikipedia page will not constitute "celebrity". If questioned, the person who posted that individual may be required provide such evidence.

Questions may be raised about the appropriateness of a pick at any point after a list is posted, even after 1/1/18. Alternates picks play an important role, as "questionable" picks may be disqualified post-posting.
First (minor) suggestion is to group those rules together since they address who is/not a celebrity. Further, I suggest revising the rules to give a deadline, say 15 Jan, for anyone to question a submitted name, and then another deadline, perhaps three days after questioning or 15 Jan, whichever is later, to make the final determination.

That gives at least 15 days for this community to review, question, and determine celebrity status of any name on anyone’s list. Hopefully before said person dies, but that may not be avoidable.

I call it the Jessica Falkholt corollary.
  #349  
Old 01-19-2018, 09:42 AM
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Ahh, the ambulance chasers. Thanks. Smart move.

Jessica Falkholt dies, and there’s a ton of news articles about it, and her? Give them the points. If a non-celebrity dies in an accident there isn’t much written.

She’s a celebrity.

ETA: if you accept this statement as true, “If a non-celebrity dies in an accident there isn’t much written”, then its logical contrapositive is also true: if there are many articles written, then a celebrity has died.

QED
Actually no. Otherwise there would be no need for a rule stating that no one famous for being sick can be picked. If non- famous people who become sick or die never get an article written about them then there wouldn’t have been a need for the rule. QED

From all appearances this was a case of the media picking up on it because it was a horrificly tragic event and by the way one of them was a pretty young actress who was on a soap for a few episodes. It wasn’t “famous actress dies.”

Myca Dinh Le and Renee Shin-Yi Chen’s names were in hundreds of articles after their deaths on the set of the Twight Zone. They were both actors. By your logic that would make them celebrities.
  #350  
Old 01-19-2018, 10:00 AM
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Perhaps rules 4 and 14 need revising:
Rule 4: If you have any questions about who is or is not a celebrity, feel free to post to the thread or PM me. This is why we include 3 alternates, so if a pick is designated to be invalid, your first alternate will be elevated to your list.

Rule 14: Determination of who is a celebrity will remain a subjective matter, but generally defined as "the person has some known presence in the form of a Wikipedia Page and/or notoriety in the news or such" and their fame or celebrity cannot be based solely on their having a terminal illness". Sole possession of a Wikipedia page will not constitute "celebrity". If questioned, the person who posted that individual may be required provide such evidence.

Questions may be raised about the appropriateness of a pick at any point after a list is posted, even after 1/1/18. Alternates picks play an important role, as "questionable" picks may be disqualified post-posting.
First (minor) suggestion is to group those rules together since they address who is/not a celebrity. Further, I suggest revising the rules to give a deadline, say 15 Jan, for anyone to question a submitted name, and then another deadline, perhaps three days after questioning or 15 Jan, whichever is later, to make the final determination.

That gives at least 15 days for this community to review, question, and determine celebrity status of any name on anyone’s list. Hopefully before said person dies, but that may not be avoidable.

I call it the Jessica Falkholt corollary.
Unfortunately that means some random poster will have to pour over every entry and research them. It may be the best solution but it’s not a good one. In the case random poster would see that this actress had a bunch of articles written about her. He would have to know to look to see that she didn’t have a wiki page before her accident. Who is going to do that?

Notice I haven’t brought up an objection to Spanky Manikan? Unless you speak Tagalog he is hardly a celebrity. But in his own country he was so by our rules he counts. We don’t have a huge Philippine readership so chances are anyone who picked him only knew him from articles saying he was sick. But the way we’ve played the game he counts.
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