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  #251  
Old 01-20-2019, 10:53 AM
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Regarding the most recent episode, I thought Ed should learn to duck or at least crouch when he's in a shootout with blaster-wielding trolls.
I wondered why it didn't occur to him to surrender to them. He's obviously not a Krill (though this episode somewhat clumsily establishes that Krill can disguise themselves) so the trolls shouldn't be after him, and this could be a valuable opportunity to make contact with a new space-faring and clearly advanced species who is a potential ally against the Krill. At it is, by engaging in a firefight with them and escaping in a recognizable Union shuttle, he may have just made the Union another enemy.

It's also somewhat annoying that the trolls (whose species name I clearly can't recall) take such a plot-convenient amount of time to find Mercer and whats-her-face. This race has interstellar tech, but then engage in inefficient foot-patrols though the jungle at night? No aerial surveillance, no infra-red, no sci-fi "bioscanners" or whatever? They seem strangely determined to hunt down every survivor of her ship, but little ability to cross the finish line.
  #252  
Old 01-20-2019, 11:03 AM
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I wondered why it didn't occur to him to surrender to them. He's obviously not a Krill (though this episode somewhat clumsily establishes that Krill can disguise themselves) so the trolls shouldn't be after him, and this could be a valuable opportunity to make contact with a new space-faring and clearly advanced species who is a potential ally against the Krill. At it is, by engaging in a firefight with them and escaping in a recognizable Union shuttle, he may have just made the Union another enemy.

It's also somewhat annoying that the trolls (whose species name I clearly can't recall) take such a plot-convenient amount of time to find Mercer and whats-her-face. This race has interstellar tech, but then engage in inefficient foot-patrols though the jungle at night? No aerial surveillance, no infra-red, no sci-fi "bioscanners" or whatever? They seem strangely determined to hunt down every survivor of her ship, but little ability to cross the finish line.
The valley they were in had some kind of thing that prevented the thing from doing the thing - which is why Mercer had to climb the hill and do the stuff.

Why did Mercer leave whatshername with the gun when he woke up before her?
  #253  
Old 01-20-2019, 11:37 AM
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The valley they were in had some kind of thing that prevented the thing from doing the thing - which is why Mercer had to climb the hill and do the stuff.
Even infra-red? That's some dark valley, I tells ya!

Besides, if the Orville is nearby and presumably the troll's ship is also nearby... why not establish contact? The ending of this was really really rushed and Mercer was so determined to protect and establish a rapport with the woman (who had had very clearly betrayed him, don't forget) that he completely forgot his overall duty to the Union.

Last edited by Bryan Ekers; 01-20-2019 at 11:42 AM.
  #254  
Old 01-20-2019, 11:41 AM
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I wondered why it didn't occur to him to surrender to them. He's obviously not a Krill (though this episode somewhat clumsily establishes that Krill can disguise themselves) so the trolls shouldn't be after him, and this could be a valuable opportunity to make contact with a new space-faring and clearly advanced species who is a potential ally against the Krill. At it is, by engaging in a firefight with them and escaping in a recognizable Union shuttle, he may have just made the Union another enemy.
Someone with a Krill, having escaped in a Krill shuttle from a Krill starship is probably going to be assumed to be Krill-affiliated. Also, I think Ed suspected that even if he survived surrendering Telaya would not, and he is still working towards her being a bridge to some sort of accommodation with the Krill
  #255  
Old 01-20-2019, 12:37 PM
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Why did Mercer leave whatshername with the gun when he woke up before her?
She fell asleep with her finger on the trigger, and when she woke up she was still firmly gripping the gun. One might reasonably assume that Mercer decided it was too risky to try wresting the weapon from her.
  #256  
Old 01-20-2019, 12:51 PM
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She fell asleep with her finger on the trigger, and when she woke up she was still firmly gripping the gun. One might reasonably assume that Mercer decided it was too risky to try wresting the weapon from her.
Yeah. And it's not a particularly trust-building move to get caught trying to swipe the gun.
  #257  
Old 01-20-2019, 01:01 PM
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Someone with a Krill, having escaped in a Krill shuttle from a Krill starship is probably going to be assumed to be Krill-affiliated. Also, I think Ed suspected that even if he survived surrendering Telaya would not, and he is still working towards her being a bridge to some sort of accommodation with the Krill
We don't know what the reaction of the troll species would be. I gather we are supposed to assume their reaction would be hostile based on their ugly appearance. As for the woman, frankly, fuck her. There are reasonable limits to how accommodating Mercer can be and should be.
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  #258  
Old 01-20-2019, 01:38 PM
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Maybe he did give the real codes, and the very existence of decoy codes was itself a decoy, so that the Krill will be skeptical of any data they obtain from stolen or coerced codes in the future.

My favorite part of the episode was that after they made a big deal about how Telaya will die if she goes out in the sun, they managed to get around this by putting a jacket over her head. So the Krill have never figured out that a piece of cloth will protect them from this mortal danger?
  #259  
Old 01-20-2019, 01:38 PM
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We don't know what the reaction of the troll species would be. I gather we are supposed to assume their reaction would be hostile based on their ugly appearance. As for the woman, frankly, fuck her. There are reasonable limits to how accommodating Mercer can be and should be.
I'd wonder what they eat if I thought of surrendering to them. Mercer knows he will be rescued. Perhaps stun a couple of them to take back to the Union.
  #260  
Old 01-20-2019, 01:43 PM
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We don't know what the reaction of the troll species would be. I gather we are supposed to assume their reaction would be hostile based on their ugly appearance. As for the woman, frankly, fuck her. There are reasonable limits to how accommodating Mercer can be and should be.
True. I'm explaining Ed's likely reasons for what he did, not what he could or should have done. He could have
run away from Teleya as soon as she was asleep and gone to find the other aliens, in hope that they would treat him well. Whether or not that's what he should have done depends on a lot of factors, including being able to survive on the planet alone until he could surrender.
  #261  
Old 01-20-2019, 01:46 PM
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Maybe he did give the real codes, and the very existence of decoy codes was itself a decoy, so that the Krill will be skeptical of any data they obtain from stolen or coerced codes in the future.

My favorite part of the episode was that after they made a big deal about how Telaya will die if she goes out in the sun, they managed to get around this by putting a jacket over her head. So the Krill have never figured out that a piece of cloth will protect them from this mortal danger?
If it is just the frequency of sunlight, sure a covering will protect her. How do they move about in daylight in previous episodes, environmental suits?
  #262  
Old 01-20-2019, 01:52 PM
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My favorite part of the episode was that after they made a big deal about how Telaya will die if she goes out in the sun, they managed to get around this by putting a jacket over her head. So the Krill have never figured out that a piece of cloth will protect them from this mortal danger?
They probably have advanced technology that will keep them safe from the effects of sunlight - but she just escaped from a ship that was blowing up, and perhaps didn't think to bring that technology along. Absent a real solution, a jacket over the head will at least make the situation tolerable.

(it's analogous to cold weather - being outside in 0 degree weather will kill me in a matter of hours. There's technology (jackets, etc.) that will prevent this, but if my house just blew up, I might not think to grab a jacket. Stuffing my shirt with fallen leaves would be better than nothing, but it's not what I would prefer under optimal circumstances.
  #263  
Old 01-20-2019, 02:07 PM
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If it is just the frequency of sunlight, sure a covering will protect her. How do they move about in daylight in previous episodes, environmental suits?
Invisible sombreros. You could tell, from the inaudible mariachi music.
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  #264  
Old 01-20-2019, 02:35 PM
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If it is just the frequency of sunlight, sure a covering will protect her. How do they move about in daylight in previous episodes, environmental suits?
Yeah. CGI push button helmets, check out the season 1 trailer.

they're not as consistent with the light levels as they should be -- I'm having trouble figuring it all out. They killed the Krill by programming a massive burst of UV from the Krill ship's lighting system. Thing is, the ship wasn't that dark when Kryss and De'von were walking around. But whenever she's a prisoner, they dim The Orville lights down to half-way moody sci-fi levels. The Krill must know that, without encounter suits, they're one "tanning booth" burst away from being killed, the extra dimness isn't adding anything. Just so long as the light's aren't on at "burn Gordon" level, all the Krill are fine. In fact, does anyone want the ship at that high UV level? It will at least cause most of the crew to be really uncomfortable. Unless, they're all secretly, possibly, Krill.

So with massive cellular and tissue replacement, they can pass for human. But with only moderate tissue replacement, they should survive UV for a little while. Yeah direct sunlight is pretty bad, but if a cloth cover is all that's needed, they the Krill aren't really in danger from less than weaponized light levels.

The vibe I'm getting is low light is just to be accommodating, polite, or friendly. Like when Mercer asks how uncomfortable it was, working on the Orville with the brightness. They replaced all her tissues, so she's fine, health and safety-wise. But they still suggest shielding her from the light, but not for a really compelling reason -- on the Orville, or on a sunny day.
  #265  
Old 01-20-2019, 02:55 PM
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Arguably, shielding her from stuff was the running theme in this episode.
  #266  
Old 01-20-2019, 03:02 PM
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As much as she hates Mercer, as kind as he was to her, and her plan failed, she must be immensely pissed off. She is probably making plans to destroy the quadrant Sol occupies.

Why can the Krill ship lights produce that much UV? It is as though Terran ships had x-ray emitters through out the decks.

Last edited by carnivorousplant; 01-20-2019 at 03:04 PM. Reason: To add verisimilitude to an otherwise bland and uninteresting narrative.
  #267  
Old 01-20-2019, 03:31 PM
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They evacuate those decks and then use strong UV to disinfect them periodically

[/fanwank]
  #268  
Old 01-20-2019, 03:49 PM
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They evacuate those decks and then use strong UV to disinfect them periodically

[/fanwank]
That is the best I could come up with, and thought they would set up some UV generating devices rather than have it built into the lighting system.
Perhaps they have some lice or bedbugs that breed very quickly, and the UVs are built in.
I don't recall how difficult it was for Gordon to make it work. Perhaps he did something to the circuitry that is not usually done, like feed more power to UV generators that usually run on a small amount of current. Yeah, I'm going for the last, just as you could drive humans nuts by running high frequencies through the comm system.
  #269  
Old 01-20-2019, 09:08 PM
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I think she was incapacitated by the sunlight.

Blinded by the Light?


You know, I have a theory. Obviously, nothing cultural has occurred in the last 400 years- no movies no films, nothing. Clearly once you invent the Holodeck/Simulator, you dont bother with such, you do porno, live D&D, other fun fantasies. No one makes any new music or film.
  #270  
Old 01-20-2019, 09:11 PM
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That is the best I could come up with, and thought they would set up some UV generating devices rather than have it built into the lighting system.
Perhaps they have some lice or bedbugs that breed very quickly, and the UVs are built in.
I don't recall how difficult it was for Gordon to make it work. Perhaps he did something to the circuitry that is not usually done, like feed more power to UV generators that usually run on a small amount of current. Yeah, I'm going for the last, just as you could drive humans nuts by running high frequencies through the comm system.
They have simulator rooms also, and as a Theocracy, clearly everybody uses those for sex. Thus, UV to sterilize.
  #271  
Old 01-21-2019, 03:14 AM
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Favorite line: "I liked you a lot better when you were using contractions". I had to think for a moment before I got it, then laughed.

I didn't guess the twist. I didn't see the resemblence, and still don't.
  #272  
Old 01-24-2019, 09:26 PM
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Re: S2 E5 "All the World is Birthday Cake"


OK, so we've got yet another new security officer. I know this was hinted at in the previous ep, but what happens to Patrick Warburton? He just disappears, never to be heard from again?

Also, hope we get a bit more of Ted Danson than tonight's cameo.

Meanwhile, I found the premise of tonight's ep...problematic. A civilization that clearly understands and, in most cases practices the scientific method completely ignores science in favor of astrology when it comes to government policies on social behavior?

*contemplates some recent actions of our own government*

Oookay. Still, might have been more plausible with a less-technologically-advanced civilization, but in this universe, the Union apparently doesn't show up unless they're invited, and that seems to require some sort of electronic transmission tech, at minimum.

Then there was the denouement:

SPOILER:
Setting aside the highly convenient timing for Kelley and Bortis of the appearance of the fake star, that's one mighty forgiving civilization to just let them go after they wiped out half a platoon of camp guards. Were they all as Nazi-like as the commander? Did none of them have families?


OH well, I'll quit bitchin'. A somewhat intriguing premise, just think it could have been taken a bit further, I guess.

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  #273  
Old 01-24-2019, 10:52 PM
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And nobody pointing out the obvious fact that Kelly and Bortas are from different freakin' planets, with different month and year lengths and different constellations in the sky.
  #274  
Old 01-25-2019, 12:55 AM
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This is The Bad Place!
  #275  
Old 01-25-2019, 12:56 AM
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And nobody pointing out the obvious fact that Kelly and Bortas are from different freakin' planets, with different month and year lengths and different constellations in the sky.
Came here to express my aggravation that this never came up. Thought this would be a good argument against their whole astrology system entirely. How can astrology be accurate when there are so many other worlds so far apart, and the stars are all in different positions?
  #276  
Old 01-25-2019, 07:16 AM
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I would have liked the astrology episode a lot better if they hadn't shown the exact same episode last season.
  #277  
Old 01-25-2019, 08:06 AM
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This season isn't working for me. The last two episodes were an improvement on the first two, but they've gone from "what if you had star trek TNG but with a c+ crew and lots of humor" to "what if you had star trek TNG again"

A lot of what Star Trek TNG could get away with in the 80s was simply due to our lower expectation of what we found acceptable out of a TV show back then, and because it was a little more groundbreaking and unique within that period of time. But being served up Star Trek TNG episodes, played almost entirely straight, is not compelling in 2019. Especially when they're the not so interesting "human looking aliens with a slight twist of the week" format. And this episode was targeted at my sensibilities - being able to mock a culture based on pseudo-scientific beliefs should be very satisfying to me, but I couldn't get into it.

Unfortunately this is apparently what the show was meant to be, since McFarlane said that he had to work more humor into the first season to please the network but this season is closer to his vision. I was on board with his fantasy of getting to play a star trek captain himself so long as I found the episodes amusing, but not so much now.
  #278  
Old 01-25-2019, 09:40 AM
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T... But being served up Star Trek TNG episodes, played almost entirely straight, is not compelling in 2019. ...
These wouldn't have worked so well back then either.

A C+ crew doping First Contact would still have had some protocols in place to research the culture by observation more before the meet, there would be established norms for what to do if things went south for whatever reason, including inexcusable ignorance of native belief systems. Officers killing a bunch of the natives when understood policy was that extraction was too intrusive also would never have made the script.

This show can get away with very inferior TNG plots by buffering it with decent funny. Short shrift the amount and more so the quality of the funny and it does not work so well.

Maybe the only line that worked for funny this time was the Bortus line of it is easier with an egg. And as played that only worked a little. Not sure why, maybe just not good comic timing.

Also Mercer's smiles creep me out.
  #279  
Old 01-25-2019, 10:31 AM
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Meanwhile, I found the premise of tonight's ep...problematic. A civilization that clearly understands and, in most cases practices the scientific method completely ignores science in favor of astrology when it comes to government policies on social behavior?

*contemplates some recent actions of our own government*

Oookay. Still, might have been more plausible with a less-technologically-advanced civilization, but in this universe, the Union apparently doesn't show up unless they're invited, and that seems to require some sort of electronic transmission tech, at minimum.
Earth sent out its first purposeful interstellar message in the 70s and I'm sure you'll agree that not all our policies on social behaviour were science based at the time. This planet was basically a theocracy with a caste system. The twist in the caste system, being birthday based rather than ancestry, seems to me would be less vulnerable to social change for that reason. You're clearly allowed to game the system so your children don't get put in the untouchables caste.

Can't say I loved the episode but I did like the first officer's justification for the break out attempt: "hey, they think we're bad so being bad doesn't break first contact principles. We're giving them what they want".
  #280  
Old 01-25-2019, 10:39 AM
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This is The Bad Place!
Hah. Literally my reaction when seeing MichaelAdmiral Perry.
  #281  
Old 01-25-2019, 11:20 AM
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I thought the obvious thing to say would have been "Oh you're right, they're Jiliacs. Well, no need to trouble yourselves, we have prison facilities on our ship".
Also, when you land in the first place surely you have some kind of protection from attack (although I can handwave it; maybe they let their guard down after a time because the Rigorians seemed so hospitable).

But overall, as SenorBeef said: a TNG episode played straight. 2 ways diverged slightly:

1. How excited everyone got about first contact. Even if it was a bit silly, it was cute.
2. Bortus and Kelly capping punks was not something that would have happened on TNG. Even if Picard killed plenty of mooks they rarely (ever?) used regular guns because it just seems too real to 21st century humans.

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  #282  
Old 01-25-2019, 12:07 PM
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I thought the obvious thing to say would have been "Oh you're right, they're Jiliacs. Well, no need to trouble yourselves, we have prison facilities on our ship".
Also, when you land in the first place surely you have some kind of protection from attack (although I can handwave it; maybe they let their guard down after a time because the Rigorians seemed so hospitable).

But overall, as SenorBeef said: a TNG episode played straight. 2 ways diverged slightly:

1. How excited everyone got about first contact. Even if it was a bit silly, it was cute.
2. Bortus and Kelly capping punks was not something that would have happened on TNG. Even if Picard killed plenty of mooks they rarely (ever?) used regular guns because it just seems too real to 21st century humans.
They certainly seemed to handle alien projectile weapons fairly well. Kudos to Union training!
  #283  
Old 01-25-2019, 01:16 PM
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Even if Picard killed plenty of mooks they rarely (ever?) used regular guns because it just seems too real to 21st century humans.
Sometimes.
  #284  
Old 01-25-2019, 01:24 PM
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Favorite line: "I liked you a lot better when you were using contractions". I had to think for a moment before I got it, then laughed.

I didn't guess the twist. I didn't see the resemblence, and still don't.
Just watched this episode. As soon as the Krill ships showed up, I guessed it half-way (maybe 3/4 way, didn't predict the throwback, mostly because I didn't remember).

I so much want to like this show, but the crew is just so unprofessional that it breaks my suspension of disbelief. I'm trying, but I don't know if I'll last all season.
  #285  
Old 01-25-2019, 03:03 PM
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That mirror was placed awfully close to the planet. Ground-based telescopes would be able to easily tell that it wasn't near as far away as it should be.
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  #286  
Old 01-25-2019, 03:11 PM
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I so want to like this series, injecting some humor into a starship is a refreshing change from the norm. I must aggree that the lack of professionalism is off-putting.

It will be interesting to see how the captain avoids a court martial for allowing his girlfriend to escape. In a real world I suspect such a move would, at a minimum, result in him being relieved of command.

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  #287  
Old 01-25-2019, 03:15 PM
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I like it better without comedy, but "Remember, if you do not eat, you will die" was pretty nice.
  #288  
Old 01-25-2019, 03:17 PM
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Anyone else notice that Peter Macon (LCDR Bortus) played a submarine's COB on "SEAL Team" last night?

Apparently that's how he speaks; my wife and I were watching, and looked at each other, and commented that he sounded really familiar and has a unique pattern of speaking and diction.

It finally dawned on me that it was Bortus I was hearing about five minutes later.
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Old 01-25-2019, 05:14 PM
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Came here to express my aggravation that this never came up. Thought this would be a good argument against their whole astrology system entirely. How can astrology be accurate when there are so many other worlds so far apart, and the stars are all in different positions?
This is their world, the center of the universe. Of course the alignment of stars around their planet controls everything in the universe.
  #290  
Old 01-25-2019, 05:17 PM
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I guess I'm still stuck on Prime Directive. No reason to make contact after just a transmission. Wait until they've established faster than light travel.

I found the prison break surprising. They killed many guards and managed to time it when the sail was deployed? Which was another Prime Directive violation, which doesn't exist, so I'm having problems disassociating that.

The episode was directed by Lt. Paris. Anyone catch that?

So does the new security chief get the gravity treatment they designed for Alara? And how many pregnancies are artificially extended in order for the child to be born under the lucky sign?
  #291  
Old 01-25-2019, 05:26 PM
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I thought replacing Alara with a very similar Xelayan seemed like kind of a weird choice. We've already established that Alara is very unusual for her race - being interested in security, being interested in exploring space, and being mentally retarded by her race's standards. So, then, this new brunette young Xalayan girl either also has to be retarded by Xalayan standards, or she has to be the smartest one of the biological bridge crew and generate her own ideas and plans, and either way is a weird fit. If she does, it's obviously it's just an exact 1:1 swap of actors without really changing the character (even though the character does change), or it's a continuous plothole.

Feels like they should've gone in another direction, but I guess they have a million "girl lifts a shuttle over her head" gags they feel the need to push forward through.
  #292  
Old 01-25-2019, 05:32 PM
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Originally Posted by SenorBeef View Post
...being mentally retarded by her race's standards. ugh.
Do we have any evidence of her being unintelligent other than her Father's nasty remarks?
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Old 01-25-2019, 05:44 PM
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I don't think it's meant to be controversial or unclear that she's dumb by Xalayan standards. Her mom also tried to pitch coming home to her gently and basically disapproved of her out there trying to do her own thing. I think other characters also made reference to how much smarter Xalayans are.

I suspect they'll just sort of forget about that whole thing and let the new security officer be of normal average human level of intelligence with no explanation.
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Old 01-25-2019, 07:02 PM
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SPOILER:
Setting aside the highly convenient timing for Kelley and Bortis of the appearance of the fake star, that's one mighty forgiving civilization to just let them go after they wiped out half a platoon of camp guards. Were they all as Nazi-like as the commander? Did none of them have families?

.

Yeah so being a geliac is a crime, but killing a dozen camps guards is OK?
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Old 01-25-2019, 07:04 PM
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And nobody pointing out the obvious fact that Kelly and Bortas are from different freakin' planets, with different month and year lengths and different constellations in the sky.
First thing I thought of. "No, Tribune, they are not Geliacs, they are Leos, look see..."

Well,the second thing after "give us our crew back or we vaporize your planet".
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Old 01-25-2019, 07:05 PM
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I would have liked the astrology episode a lot better if they hadn't shown the exact same episode last season.
No, they didnt.
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Old 01-25-2019, 07:20 PM
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Originally Posted by DrDeth View Post
First thing I thought of. "No, Tribune, they are not Geliacs, they are Leos, look see..."

Well,the second thing after "give us our crew back or we vaporize your planet".
That was my problem with Star Trek.
Things should have gone this way:

Picard: "Wesley is an obnoxious little shit, and we will pay for the things he broke; but if you execute him, we will phaser your planet into a cinder. Observe your moon. Mr. Worf, fire."
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Old 01-25-2019, 07:24 PM
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Originally Posted by carnivorousplant View Post
That was my problem with Star Trek.
Things should have gone this way:

Picard: "Wesley is an obnoxious little shit, and we will pay for the things he broke; but if you execute him, we will phaser your planet into a cinder. Observe your moon. Mr. Worf, fire."
Not with Wesley, I would just expect a The Ransom of Red Chief ending.
https://learningenglish.voanews.com/...77/117086.html
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Old 01-25-2019, 07:26 PM
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Yes, I know, the Prime Directive.
"Those people are killing and eating each other down there, and all we can do is watch it on the view screen. 256 channels, and there is nothing on!"
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Old 01-25-2019, 07:34 PM
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I actually looked it up. Apparently Geliac = Aquarius if we go by the airdate of the show and that their birthdays were "next week."

Last edited by ivylass; 01-25-2019 at 07:37 PM.
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