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  #5601  
Old 02-11-2019, 01:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Jophiel View Post
Well, whatever that red ward thing is over the doors and windows, it doesn't seem to be up for the task.
Maybe the smoke snuck in though an unwarded crack or crevice. Or the vamp was teleported in before going misty.
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  #5602  
Old 02-11-2019, 02:04 PM
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It's likely that the orange (looks more orange than red to me) field is like the one at the Godsmoot: it keeps any required participants from leaving but not others from entering.
  #5603  
Old 02-11-2019, 04:29 PM
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In that final panel in episode 1154, just what is that thing Durkon is holding in his right fork hand?
  #5604  
Old 02-11-2019, 04:31 PM
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A gauntlet. They go with the hammer.
  #5605  
Old 02-11-2019, 04:43 PM
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Notice also that he's wearing one on his left hand.
  #5606  
Old 02-11-2019, 04:56 PM
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Assuming it's a Hammer of Thunderbolts, he'll need Gaulets of Ogre Power and a Belt of Giant Strength to get the maximum possible benefit. So we'll assume that those are the gauntlets (he's wearing the left one) and that the belt is still in the drawer. The suggestion that he borrow Roy's Belt is unlikely, since that would weaken Roy. This is supposed to be an upgrade, but not at someone else's expense.
  #5607  
Old 02-11-2019, 05:05 PM
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The suggestion that he borrow Roy's Belt is unlikely, since that would weaken Roy.
V can cast Bull's Strength so Roy would not be significantly weakened.
  #5608  
Old 02-11-2019, 05:39 PM
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V can cast Bull's Strength so Roy would not be significantly weakened.
But it uses a spell slot - and Thor isn't likely to gift an artifact weapon without leaving the necessary items to fully employ it. Since the gauntlets appear to be there, it is reasonable to assume the belt is also.
  #5609  
Old 02-11-2019, 06:22 PM
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Actually, even if Roy's Belt is a +6 belt he only loses 3 to hit and damage without it and given his high level and other bonuses, he doesn't actually need it. So he could easily give it up.
  #5610  
Old 02-11-2019, 06:33 PM
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The fact that he has a bunch of other bonuses is precisely why Roy benefits so much from the belt. Even if that really is a Hammer of Thunderbolts and it really doesn't come with its own belt, and even with the full-set bonuses, the belt would probably still be more use to Roy than to Durkon.
  #5611  
Old 02-12-2019, 12:16 AM
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  #5612  
Old 02-12-2019, 12:37 AM
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Guess it doesn't hurt to have it repeated on the new page, for convenience.

Also, for future reference: you need to put the color tags inside the URL tags for it to show,
like this
  #5613  
Old 02-19-2019, 10:37 AM
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1156 is up

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  #5614  
Old 02-19-2019, 02:29 PM
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So much for robbing their final moments of dignity- Unnamed Dwarf Daughter is now one of my favorite characters. Up yours, Ex-arch!
  #5615  
Old 02-19-2019, 11:52 PM
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So, why didn't they use their vampiric gaze on Unnamed Dwarf Daughter? Could they only use it on so many people at a time? Or was she strong enough to resist it?

Last edited by ekedolphin; 02-19-2019 at 11:53 PM.
  #5616  
Old 02-20-2019, 12:46 AM
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My guess is she made her saving throw. There doesn't seem to any limit to how many beings can be dominated. At least none are mentioned in d20srd.
  #5617  
Old 02-21-2019, 09:21 AM
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It looks like the right vampire (halfling?) was busy Dominating the guards and the left (dwarf woman?) one was dominating the matriarch and Daughter wasn't looking directly at either. Given how terrible everyone seems to roll their Will saves in this strip, I can't imagine that Daughter just casually resisted without even a "Errr... no!" or something to show it.

Last edited by Jophiel; 02-21-2019 at 09:22 AM.
  #5618  
Old 02-21-2019, 01:57 PM
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It looks like the right vampire (halfling?) was busy Dominating the guards and the left (dwarf woman?) one was dominating the matriarch and Daughter wasn't looking directly at either. Given how terrible everyone seems to roll their Will saves in this strip, I can't imagine that Daughter just casually resisted without even a "Errr... no!" or something to show it.
Halfling?

Since when do halflings wear boots?
  #5619  
Old 02-21-2019, 02:51 PM
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Tell 'im to grow a beard or wear a funny hat if he doesn't want to be confused.
  #5620  
Old 03-01-2019, 01:28 PM
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1157: Holes and Walls
  #5621  
Old 03-01-2019, 02:00 PM
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The barrier is going to keep out everyone but Durkon and Minrah out. Looks like this is their time to shine. Although if there's a fight in the middle chamber, Roy and Haley could contribute with ranged weapons.

A couple possibilities: 1) Durkon impersonates a vampire and countermands the order about voting. 2) One of them brings up another issue for the Council to vote on, and thus makes that the main proposal, or at least confuses them about what is the main proposal.

Last edited by dtilque; 03-01-2019 at 02:00 PM.
  #5622  
Old 03-01-2019, 02:04 PM
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If Hilgya is staying with the group (reasonable since Loki didn't want the world to end), she'll be able to assist as well.
  #5623  
Old 03-01-2019, 02:42 PM
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So most of the group will stand on the other side of the orange barrier and try to mess up the vampires with range, right? Or better yet, get them to the other side of the barrier. The dwarves will go on through, and convince the dominated people to do something unvampire-friendly.

Idea: Elan creates an illusion of a vampire, saying, "Smack a dwarf upside the head!" Everyone dominated does so, and gets turned to stone until the meeting adjourns.
  #5624  
Old 03-01-2019, 04:09 PM
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I wonder if the OotS could find a way to invert the proposal being voted on? So instead of voting "Yes" on ending the world, they vote "Yes" on maintaining the world?

Or change the "main" proposal to something irrelevant and harmless, and then vote on the whole ending the world thing.
  #5625  
Old 03-01-2019, 05:12 PM
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Wow, I cannot wait to see how Burlew gets himself out of this corner it looks like he's painted himself into. This is good writing.
  #5626  
Old 03-01-2019, 06:14 PM
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So most of the group will stand on the other side of the orange barrier and try to mess up the vampires with range, right?
But the vampires will probably be in mistform, as they were when the woman counselor arrived. They could retreat to the inner chamber as soon as they see the Order. So there'll just be dominated guards left who will attempt to prevent Durkon, Minrah and Hilgya, if she's there, from entering. I expect the three casters could handle the dozen or so low-level guards.

Quote:
Idea: Elan creates an illusion of a vampire, saying, "Smack a dwarf upside the head!" Everyone dominated does so, and gets turned to stone until the meeting adjourns.
Doesn't the illusion have to stay within sight of the caster? I don't think one can see into the inner chamber from beyond the orange barrier. Possibly this illusion could order the guards to do something, though, but getting them turned into stone doesn't really help.

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Wow, I cannot wait to see how Burlew gets himself out of this corner it looks like he's painted himself into. This is good writing.
The way to do that, of course, is to only seemingly paint oneself into a corner, but have a way out thought up beforehand. The good writing part is to make the corner seem to have no secret doors.
  #5627  
Old 03-01-2019, 08:13 PM
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Idea: Elan creates an illusion of a vampire, saying, "Smack a dwarf upside the head!" Everyone dominated does so, and gets turned to stone until the meeting adjourns.
How would he know to do that? The Order has no way of knowing what specific orders the vampires gave -- all they have to go on is general knowledge of the security setup (from Durkon, etc) and what they can see when they arrive.
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  #5628  
Old 03-01-2019, 09:16 PM
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OK, for starters, there are two Dominated guards just inside the orange barrier. Anything that pulls them through that barrier will mean two additional allies.

And precisely how is "attacking" defined, for purposes of dwarven law? Would a grapple, for instance, be an "attack"?
  #5629  
Old 03-01-2019, 09:53 PM
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Dispel Magic has a range of 100' +10' per level of caster. So we're looking at a minimum of 220' for Durkon even with lost levels, etc. Maybe there isn't any line of sight between the chambers because otherwise it would be trivial to Dispel from outside the blue zone.

Of course it won't be that easy. But I don't have the advantage of deciding the answer before writing the puzzle

Last edited by Jophiel; 03-01-2019 at 09:54 PM.
  #5630  
Old 03-01-2019, 09:55 PM
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Can't somebody just cast Dispel Magic, and accept the penalty that they will temporarily be turned to stone? Perhaps Haley has a wand that will do it.
  #5631  
Old 03-02-2019, 07:50 AM
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I'm guessing that a barrier that dispels magic also won't allow any spells (such as Dispel Magic) to be cast through it.
  #5632  
Old 03-02-2019, 07:54 AM
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I just want to say I love the final panel. The kid has obviously read up on advice for Evil Overlords.
  #5633  
Old 03-02-2019, 08:00 AM
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Can't somebody just cast Dispel Magic, and accept the penalty that they will temporarily be turned to stone? Perhaps Haley has a wand that will do it.
The orange barrier prevents non-Dwarves from entering, so Haley can't be there to do it.

Also note it says "instantly turned to stone". That makes me think it may happen before any castings are completed. Just the act of starting to cast may trigger it. So a Dispel is likely to fail.

On the other forums, it's been suggested that Durkon use that fancy new hammer to break the ceiling of the chamber and let in sunlight. Which the vampires are vulnerable to, of course. In strip 1131, it looks like Hilgya was released from domination when Durkon* was destroyed. So this may be a way to release all the dominated councillors at once. However, I expect that destroying property is against Dwarven law, so that would result in an instant petrification. So maybe he gets one swing. Better make it a good one.

I also had the thought that, since Roy can't enter the chamber, he'll go outside and be ready to assist in breaking the roof, perhaps with the assistance of the Bandana and the Mechane. That is, once Durkon smacks the ceiling, Roy finishes the job with his star-metal sword. Or possibly Durkon goes outside too. He'll be outside the blue barrier, so he won't be turned to stone. But that would mean Durkon doesn't get a showdown with his former subordinate.
  #5634  
Old 03-02-2019, 09:39 AM
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I also had the thought that, since Roy can't enter the chamber, he'll go outside and be ready to assist in breaking the roof, perhaps with the assistance of the Bandana and the Mechane.
Or this is the excuse for Roy temporarily handing over his belt for Super Thor Hammer Action without the "But what about Roy's melee?" concerns.
  #5635  
Old 03-02-2019, 09:47 AM
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I'm guessing that a barrier that dispels magic also won't allow any spells (such as Dispel Magic) to be cast through it.
I wouldn't assume that by the spell effect (I'm guessing a field that dispels magic uses Dispel Magic). It's not an anti-magic field. At best, I would assume it might act (as the spell description) as a weaker Counterspell, giving the caster a chance to power through it. But that's supposed to be a targeted effect of Dispel Magic and this is a static field.

Obviously though, it's going to do whatever the story says it does and I doubt the story says "Casters shrug and just cast 200' range spell with an area-of-effect into the room ending all the Dominations"

Last edited by Jophiel; 03-02-2019 at 09:48 AM.
  #5636  
Old 03-02-2019, 10:41 AM
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Well, there is actually a spell in one of the books that makes a wall that dispells anything that passes through, and it does in fact also block spells cast through it. Of course, it's an open question whether Burlew based his orange-barrier effect on that spell, or if he used the same sort of reasoning as that spell's designer.
  #5637  
Old 03-02-2019, 11:48 AM
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Or this is the excuse for Roy temporarily handing over his belt for Super Thor Hammer Action without the "But what about Roy's melee?" concerns.
Well, maybe, but I still expect Durkon has his own belt and doesn't need to borrow Roy's.
  #5638  
Old 03-04-2019, 04:36 AM
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On the other forums, it's been suggested that Durkon use that fancy new hammer to break the ceiling of the chamber and let in sunlight. Which the vampires are vulnerable to, of course. In strip 1131, it looks like Hilgya was released from domination when Durkon* was destroyed. So this may be a way to release all the dominated councillors at once. However, I expect that destroying property is against Dwarven law, so that would result in an instant petrification. So maybe he gets one swing. Better make it a good one.
He'd only get petrified if he was in the chamber at the time. Presumably he could break it from above. However, Chekhov's Petrification says that we're going to see somebody turned to stone via this rule, so perhaps it will be Durkon.
  #5639  
Old 03-04-2019, 08:16 AM
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However, Chekhov's Petrification says that we're going to see somebody turned to stone via this rule, so perhaps it will be Durkon.
True that. Otherwise it would be a "You get killed" like the Godsmoot, but this is too specific plus has the "Until the end of the meeting" rider so there's not even a question of how to de-petrify anyone*. Somebody's turning into a statue for a while.

*Granted, with a couple high level clerics (assuming Hilgya is there) it's no question anyway, but still.

Last edited by Jophiel; 03-04-2019 at 08:18 AM.
  #5640  
Old 03-04-2019, 08:33 AM
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So a plausible pathway out of this is:
SPOILER:
1) Durkon and Minrah and/or Hilgya enter and confront the vamps.
2) Realizing he can't attack them directly, he breaks the ceiling.
3) The vamps get fried but Durkon gets turned to stone.
4) Minrah and/or Hilgya explain what's going on and convince the council to vote No.
5) The council votes, the meeting ends, Durkon gets unstoned, everyone's happy, beer all around!
I know I didn't need to spoiler rampant speculation but just in case.
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Old 03-04-2019, 08:45 AM
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Sounds reasonable. Only obvious hitch would be if the chamber is deeper than we suspect. The only exterior view of it is ambiguous.
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Old 03-04-2019, 09:23 AM
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As an aside, Elan is also able to reverse petrification, and Vaarsuvius might be, if e has the appropriate spell in es book and prepared it.
  #5643  
Old 03-04-2019, 09:28 AM
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It may be something like that as an overall plot, Gyrate, but there'll be more going on. The breaking the ceiling, if that happens, will be a last ditch effort, so it won't be that simple.

And yeah, it could be he goes outside and breaks the wall from there. No doubt with the help from the Roy, Bandana and the Mechane.

A further possibility: Durkon breaks the ceiling and lets in sunshine, but the three vampires have Protection from Daylight prepared and they cast it immediately. However, Haley has also gone outside and she's at the edge of the hole. She then nails the vampires with the arrows that she prepared here. I don't think she's used any yet. All the arrows we see during the various fights have arrowheads on them. That may have just been an oversight by Burlew, though. Roy may also be out there and gets one of them by throwing his sword.
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Old 03-04-2019, 10:09 AM
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I doubt the other vampires would have Protection from Daylight at their disposal. They're all just a day or two old at best and Hayley made the argument that all of Durkon's time supposedly spent learning the spell from the staff was actually spent learning the "Quick Raise Vampire" trick. Chances are, Durkon didn't even know the spell and it was lost when the staff broke.

Which brings up a theoretical question of whether Live Durkon still has access to the Quick Raise Vamp spell researched by Vamp Durkon.
  #5645  
Old 03-04-2019, 10:19 AM
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Sounds reasonable. Only obvious hitch would be if the chamber is deeper than we suspect. The only exterior view of it is ambiguous.
In panel 5 of that strip, the councillor does complain about being near the surface.

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As an aside, Elan is also able to reverse petrification, and Vaarsuvius might be, if e has the appropriate spell in es book and prepared it.
Elan wasn't able to reverse Haley's petrification during the fight with Z at the Gladiator Colliseum. Well, I think he should have been able to with Song of Freedom, but didn't. At any rate, Elan and V can't enter the chamber because of the orange barrier and the Song takes a full minute to have an effect.

How about this: Durkon attacks the ceiling, is petrified, and then that is dispelled by Hilgya or Minrah. Casting any spell on a creature results in petrification, but does casting on what is basically a statue count as that?
  #5646  
Old 03-04-2019, 10:35 AM
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In panel 5 of that strip, the councillor does complain about being near the surface.
Heh, I was too busy looking at the artwork and missed, you know, reading it
  #5647  
Old 03-04-2019, 10:41 AM
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As an aside, Elan is also able to reverse petrification, and Vaarsuvius might be, if e has the appropriate spell in es book and prepared it.
When did Elan learn to reverse petrification? He couldn't do so when Haley was turned to stone. It was Durkon that broke the enchantment.

The strip implies that V knows stone to flesh, but didn't prepare it that day.
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Old 03-04-2019, 10:51 AM
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How about this: Durkon attacks the ceiling, is petrified, and then that is dispelled by Hilgya or Minrah. Casting any spell on a creature results in petrification, but does casting on what is basically a statue count as that?
It isn't casting a spell that results in petrification, it's breaking dwarf law. Destroying the walls or ceiling is probably against their law, and would probably result in petrification. Casting a spell may or may not be specifically against their laws. There might be a specific rule forbidding trying to help a petrified person, otherwise it would be fine.
  #5649  
Old 03-04-2019, 11:26 AM
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Casting a spell may or may not be specifically against their laws. There might be a specific rule forbidding trying to help a petrified person, otherwise it would be fine.
You're forbidden from casting any spell (or using a supernatural effect) on a creature. Whether or not a petrified statue of a creature counts as a creature, who knows.

Last edited by Jophiel; 03-04-2019 at 11:26 AM.
  #5650  
Old 03-04-2019, 11:45 AM
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You're forbidden from casting any spell (or using a supernatural effect) on a creature.
(re-reads the strip)

Okay, fair point.
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