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Old 05-27-2018, 02:01 PM
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But I see the second half of the phrase, “a crazy person who had a gun” and want to know how that happened and what we can do to make it happen less.
I believe we can all agree on that.
  #1352  
Old 05-27-2018, 02:53 PM
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Are you advocating tranquilizer darts used by policemen in body armor?
I don't see what else to do. It is tragic for a life to be lost, but he could kill several people if not stopped.
1. I didn't see "tranquilizer darts"mentioned.
1. I really dislike the euphemism "stopped" used instead of "killed".
  #1353  
Old 05-27-2018, 03:22 PM
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1. I didn't see "tranquilizer darts"mentioned.
1. I really dislike the euphemism "stopped" used instead of "killed".
Regarding your second #1, I don't understand. Whether it's a cop or a private citizen, the goal is to stop the criminal, not kill him. End the immediate threat. I realize there is a little semantics and even some legal awareness at play, but when someone is protecting themselves or others, they want to stop the threat, not kill someone.
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Old 05-27-2018, 03:33 PM
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"Stopped" is more accurate, because you don't shoot to kill, you shoot to stop the threat.

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Last edited by Shodan; 05-27-2018 at 03:33 PM. Reason: ninja'd
  #1355  
Old 05-27-2018, 03:57 PM
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"Stopped" is more accurate, because you don't shoot to kill, you shoot to stop the threat.
Who shoots to injure? Police don't.

Quote:
Police are trained to stop dangerous, life-threatening or murderous behavior, Kelly said. This holds true for all police departments across the country, he added.

Anytime a firearm is discharged, it's considered deadly force, said David Klinger, professor of Criminology and Criminal Justice at the University of Missouri-St. Louis. Shooting to injure or maim someone wouldn't stop an aggressive subject, Klinger said, and officers are trying to stop the threat to their life, or the life of their partner or a citizen.

"Why would we want to injure or maim people?" he said. "It doesn't stop them."

Because of the potential risks, it would be "very difficult" to train officers to shoot to wound instead, Kelly said. If someone's life is in jeopardy, shooting to maim or injure will have little effect on the actions of the individual who is trying to kill, Klinger added.

Additionally, if an officer aims at anything other than the torso area, the odds that he or she will miss increase greatly, Klinger said. But aiming for the chest means that the type of wounds suspects usually sustain are likely to be fatal, he added.

SOURCE: https://abcnews.go.com/US/police-tra...ry?id=40402933
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Old 05-27-2018, 04:01 PM
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The sentence "he could kill several people if not killed" sounded awkward to me.
I guess "he could kill several people if not killed himself" is a little better.

He was standing there shooting people; I don't see any other way than to shoot him. Stun guns just seemed to annoy Rodney King, for example.
  #1357  
Old 05-29-2018, 10:12 AM
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Who shoots to injure? Police don't.
Correct. They don't shoot to injure, they don't shoot to kill. They shoot to stop the threat.

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  #1358  
Old 05-29-2018, 10:21 AM
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Correct. They don't shoot to injure, they don't shoot to kill. They shoot to stop the threat.
And the "threat" is considered effectively stopped when...?
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Old 05-29-2018, 10:35 AM
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And the "threat" is considered effectively stopped when...?
When the guy is dead, meaning that he can no longer be a threat.
I believe that law enforcement is generally to quick to shoot, but the idea is that the dead guy was going to injure or kill other people, not that he is running away or speeding.
  #1360  
Old 05-29-2018, 10:51 AM
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Bringing us back on topic. In other news, Homeowner shoots burglary suspect inside Lake Worth house:

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A homeowner, who said he woke up to a flash of light, shot an unknown man last week inside his Lake Worth home, Palm Beach County Sheriff’s Office deputies say.
...
The homeowner said he saw Mouassite holding a flashlight on the second floor of his home. He then shot Mouassite to “defend himself as well as his wife and daughter,” a deputy wrote in the report.
...
Court records show Mouassite was out on bond from a March arrest on drug-related charges.
DGU with no deaths. I'd not recommend giving chase outside the home, but these are tactical decisions. The intruder appears to have claimed he went to the wrong house. Indeed.
  #1361  
Old 05-29-2018, 11:15 AM
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From the Washington Post, "An attacker in a terrifying mask fatally shot after jumping a Little Caesars employee". In Holly Hill, Florida, a man in some kind of Nosferatu-mask reportedly jumped Heriberto Feliciano, an employee at a Little Caesars restaurant who was locking up for the night; beat Mr. Feliciano with a board (until the board broke), then tried to stab him with a pair of scissors. Mr. Feliciano, who has a concealed carry permit, drew his gun and shot the assailant multiple times, fatally wounding him. Mr. Feliciano suffered some "injuries to his face and shoulders" and is reportedly also (understandably) pretty emotionally traumatized by the whole thing. The local police have indicated that the shooting appears to have been justified.
  #1362  
Old 05-29-2018, 12:03 PM
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<post doorhinged>

Anyone else wonder about that mask being described as a "clown mask"? I mean, I hate clowns as much as the next guy, but that mask does not look "clowny" to me.
  #1363  
Old 05-29-2018, 12:39 PM
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Never mind the clown mask - I was hoping he was wearing big floppy shoes and jumped out of a little car.

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Shodan
  #1364  
Old 05-29-2018, 12:52 PM
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Bringing us back on topic. In other news, Homeowner shoots burglary suspect inside Lake Worth house:


DGU with no deaths. I'd not recommend giving chase outside the home, but these are tactical decisions. The intruder appears to have claimed he went to the wrong house. Indeed.
Is it actually just a tactical decision, or is it a legal decision to continue to pursue an attack against someone who is in retreat?
  #1365  
Old 05-29-2018, 01:06 PM
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Is it actually just a tactical decision, or is it a legal decision to continue to pursue an attack against someone who is in retreat?
If you don't chase the person down, they might get away before you are able to kill them.
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Old 05-29-2018, 01:23 PM
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And if you don't kill them, they can testify against you.

"Tactical decisions" are best left to the cops who are trained to make and implement them, not to self-styled vigilantes - er, 'scuse me, The Good Guys.

Last edited by ElvisL1ves; 05-29-2018 at 01:24 PM.
  #1367  
Old 05-29-2018, 02:07 PM
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If you don't chase the person down, they might get away before you are able to kill them.
This, and many other of these type of comments seem out of place in this thread, to me. As a result, no response from me here.

Continuing with the nature of the thread, and my habit of including a new item every time I reply, in other news, Joelton gas station clerk fights back, shoots robbery suspect:

Quote:
According to police, 58-year-old Zane Friend was outside taking a break when the armed men reportedly started running at him.

Friend was armed with a pistol. He told police one of the suspects pointed a gun at him, so he shot the suspect in the stomach.

The two other suspects reportedly ditched their friend who had just been shot.

According to police, Friend then ran inside, grabbed towels and tried to help the man who had just tried to rob him. Friend said he performed CPR on the suspect and called 911.
DGU with no deaths. 3vs1 and the 1 prevailed, and even attempted to render aid to the injured attacker. I'd also recommend against the attempt to render aid - no idea if the injured attacker is being genuine - again a tactical choice in the heat of the moment.

Last edited by Bone; 05-29-2018 at 02:07 PM.
  #1368  
Old 05-29-2018, 02:28 PM
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This, and many other of these type of comments seem out of place in this thread, to me. As a result, no response from me here.
They only seem out of place to someone who thinks chasing a guy down to shoot him again is a "tactical decision" instead of a "bad idea"
  #1369  
Old 05-29-2018, 03:17 PM
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DGU with no deaths. 3vs1 and the 1 prevailed, and even attempted to render aid to the injured attacker.
We even have the shooter's own word that the robber pointed a gun at him. That's certainly good enough, right?

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I'd also recommend against the attempt to render aid
Seriously?
  #1370  
Old 05-29-2018, 03:24 PM
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Seriously?
If the bad guy threatened the good guy, and being helped by the good guy means going to prison, the bad guy might rethreaten the good guy.
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Old 05-29-2018, 03:32 PM
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Seriously?
If you render aid, the guy might live to testify against you. Plus, you wouldn't be able to say you killed a guy.

lose/lose really.
  #1372  
Old 05-29-2018, 03:42 PM
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We even have the shooter's own word that the robber pointed a gun at him. That's certainly good enough, right?
Well, that, and
Quote:
Police said Gonzales had a shotgun with him that was reported stolen in Clarksville.
Of course we don't know for certain - maybe this felon in possession of a stolen firearm was collecting for the United Way. It was probably all just a misunderstanding!

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  #1373  
Old 05-29-2018, 06:57 PM
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They only seem out of place to someone who thinks chasing a guy down to shoot him again is a "tactical decision" instead of a "bad idea"
If you're infatuated with living out the fantasy world of "making tactical decisions", go join a laser tag league, or maybe play Call of Duty. Real life involves real lives and real consequences.

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This, and many other of these type of comments seem out of place in this thread, to me. As a result, no response from me here.
How are you defining "out of place"? Comments that challenge your worldview, perhaps? Refusing to respond says all it needs to say, though.

Last edited by ElvisL1ves; 05-29-2018 at 06:59 PM.
  #1374  
Old 05-30-2018, 02:40 PM
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<post doorhinged>
Meaning what?
  #1375  
Old 05-30-2018, 04:00 PM
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Meaning what?
doorhinge has a habit of deleting the parts of a quote that he is not replying to and putting “[post shortened]” under it like that.
  #1376  
Old 05-30-2018, 05:09 PM
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If you render aid, the guy might live to testify against you. Plus, you wouldn't be able to say you killed a guy.

lose/lose really.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElvisL1ves View Post
If you're infatuated with living out the fantasy world of "making tactical decisions", go join a laser tag league, or maybe play Call of Duty. Real life involves real lives and real consequences.

How are you defining "out of place"? Comments that challenge your worldview, perhaps? Refusing to respond says all it needs to say, though.
Maybe you should go back and read through some of the many moderator instructions in this thread. If you continue to disregard them you will start getting warnings.
  #1377  
Old 05-30-2018, 06:36 PM
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doorhinge has a habit
<post doorhinged>

.
  #1378  
Old 05-30-2018, 06:52 PM
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Apparently the Positive Gun News thread is for the purpose of posting anecdotes and running away, not for actually discussing how or if they're positive. Seems odd, but there ya go.
  #1379  
Old 05-30-2018, 07:00 PM
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In other news, Madison man identified as alleged intruder fatally shot in Trinity

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“Decatur police believe Taylor is the sole suspect and acted alone,” according to a DPD statement.

Officials say that as police responded, multiple shots were fired inside the house and when officers arrived on the scene, they learned that the intruder broke into the back of the home and armed himself with a knife.

Two residents were injured in the struggle and Taylor was shot and passed away from injuries on the scene according to authorities.
...
WHNT has learned Taylor was released from jail charged with serious crimes three days before police say he broke into the home. He was arrested on May 9 for kidnapping and domestic violence and released the next day on a $31,500 bond.
Didn't even bring a knife to a gun fight, had to get one at the house he broke into. DGU with one death. And what with the charges of kidnapping and domestic violence, that bond didn't seem to work very well.
  #1380  
Old 05-30-2018, 07:15 PM
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<post doorhinged>
We'll be having nun of that.
  #1381  
Old 05-30-2018, 07:44 PM
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doorhinge has a habit of deleting the parts of a quote that he is not replying to and putting “[post shortened]” under it like that.
Thank you. Back in the old days we would just -----8<------- snip.
  #1382  
Old 05-31-2018, 09:37 AM
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One gang member killed and two others wounded.

One less gang member in the area, and two that might think twice about gang activity.

Hopefully, this will act as a deterrent to keep other people from joining a gang.
  #1383  
Old 05-31-2018, 10:01 AM
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This is an old one, I believe in 2005, but my wife and I saw it on See No Evil, a true crime show that highlights CCTV footage.

Johnny Williams kidnapped, raped, and murdered a cashier at Wal-Mart and stole her truck. He headed west, attempted to rob a store in an RV park, and the clerk shot and wounded him. Williams was later arrested in the hospital where he sought treatment.

So, DGU with injuries to the perp. And also leading to the arrest and conviction of a murderous criminal.

Regards,
Shodan
  #1384  
Old 05-31-2018, 10:29 AM
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This is an old one, I believe in 2005, but my wife and I saw it on See No Evil, a true crime show that highlights CCTV footage.

Johnny Williams kidnapped, raped, and murdered a cashier at Wal-Mart and stole her truck. He headed west, attempted to rob a store in an RV park, and the clerk shot and wounded him. Williams was later arrested in the hospital where he sought treatment.

So, DGU with injuries to the perp. And also leading to the arrest and conviction of a murderous criminal.
Is there any way to find out if the event happened as reenacted for dramatic purposes on this entertainment program?
edited to add: Withdrawn-did not notice the link at the beginning of the post.

Last edited by Czarcasm; 05-31-2018 at 10:33 AM.
  #1385  
Old 05-31-2018, 10:41 AM
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One gang member killed and two others wounded.

One less gang member in the area, and two that might think twice about gang activity.

Hopefully, this will act as a deterrent to keep other people from joining a gang.
Trying to find the "positive" news here. Not clear from the article who was in a gang, or whether all three were. It also says nothing at all about the shooter except to refer once to a "gunman." Police say the shooting was "gang related" which may be true but is rather thin analysis.

Unfortunately incidents like this tend not to deter gang members, but rather lead to an endless cycle of revenge killings.
  #1386  
Old 05-31-2018, 11:21 AM
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Gang members are a renewable resource. There are always more willing to take their place, and there is zero evidence that gang violence is a deterrent, nor that gun control has an effect on gang violence. Making their neighborhoods less shitty so that they have more opportunities besides the drug and sex trades appears to be the main, solvable solution. Unless a civilian has saved lives in legal SD I see no DGU.
  #1387  
Old 05-31-2018, 01:28 PM
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Gang members are a renewable resource. There are always more willing to take their place, and there is zero evidence that gang violence is a deterrent, nor that gun control has an effect on gang violence. Making their neighborhoods less shitty so that they have more opportunities besides the drug and sex trades appears to be the main, solvable solution. Unless a civilian has saved lives in legal SD I see no DGU.
Luckily, I read the OP, which stated "people can add their own positive news items relating to firearms". There doesn't have to be a civilian DGU story. Just a positive news story. Gang members being killed is positive, isn't it?
  #1388  
Old 05-31-2018, 01:35 PM
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This thread is packed with examples of people using a gun to stop a crime or save lives.

This recent article gives 12 examples with links to the original news article. Most of these examples weren't lethal encounters.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dai...ved-lives/amp/

Last edited by aceplace57; 05-31-2018 at 01:38 PM.
  #1389  
Old 05-31-2018, 01:42 PM
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Gang members being killed is positive, isn't it?
I would say so, although I understand how many would think that any life lost, no matter whose, is tragic. From experience I believe some crooks will be crooks no matter what, and it is better that they lose their lives than they take the life of someone else.
  #1390  
Old 05-31-2018, 02:10 PM
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Luckily, I read the OP, which stated "people can add their own positive news items relating to firearms". There doesn't have to be a civilian DGU story. Just a positive news story. Gang members being killed is positive, isn't it?
Gang violence of any kind is never good news. That a gang member was killed during gang violence does not make it any better. I think the spirit of the thread is to show events where guns were used by law-abiding citizens for an outcome that is positive for law-abiding citizens. Examples of criminals killing each other with guns doesn't make the point.
  #1391  
Old 05-31-2018, 03:33 PM
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Gang members being killed is positive, isn't it?
Somehow I don't think your statement is really looking for an answer.
  #1392  
Old 05-31-2018, 03:48 PM
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Gang members being killed is positive, isn't it?
Abraham Lincoln in his late teens was a soldier in the East Side Maulers, a violent street gang of the time. It is speculated that he may have slit the throat of Dolly Madison's (of snack cake fame) niece. Lincoln went on to be elected president and currently graces our five dollar bill.

ETA: and the penny as well. The only man ever to be portrayed on pennies and fives. #themoreyouknow

/history lesson

Last edited by kayaker; 05-31-2018 at 03:48 PM.
  #1393  
Old 05-31-2018, 04:34 PM
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I would say so, although I understand how many would think that any life lost, no matter whose, is tragic. From experience I believe some crooks will be crooks no matter what, and it is better that they lose their lives than they take the life of someone else.
I agree. With the statement "some crooks will be crooks no matter what", with the emphasis on "some".

The problem is, you never know which crooks will be crook no matter what, until you give them realistic better options. It is a waste for someone who was born into a situation where they are highly likely to engage in crime then engages in crime, and is never given a chance to try something else before being killed for doing what they were set up from birth to do.
  #1394  
Old 06-01-2018, 09:29 AM
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Gang violence of any kind is never good news. That a gang member was killed during gang violence does not make it any better. I think the spirit of the thread is to show events where guns were used by law-abiding citizens for an outcome that is positive for law-abiding citizens. Examples of criminals killing each other with guns doesn't make the point.
I don't think a gun-owner chasing a guy down to shoot him again is positive either. But we were warned not to make those types of judgements.
  #1395  
Old 06-01-2018, 10:53 AM
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Abraham Lincoln in his late teens was a soldier in the East Side Maulers, a violent street gang of the time. It is speculated that he may have slit the throat of Dolly Madison's (of snack cake fame) niece. Lincoln went on to be elected president and currently graces our five dollar bill.

ETA: and the penny as well. The only man ever to be portrayed on pennies and fives. #themoreyouknow

/history lesson
If I haven't been whooshed - cite?

Lincoln won a wrestling match with a local leader of a sort of gang, but that is not really the same thing.

Regards,
Shodan
  #1396  
Old 06-01-2018, 10:55 AM
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In other news, Alleged burglar shot at by local business owner
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Peter Marquez, 48, was arrested Thursday in the 1800 block of South Chester Avenue in South Bakersfield. A deputy in the area for an unrelated reason heard a gunshot around 8:10 p.m., and investigated, finding Marquez, who was wearing a face mask, KCSO said.

Marquez is accused of breaking into a business in the area. The business owner was in the building when Marquez allegedly broke in, and fired a single shot, according to KCSO. No one was wounded.
DGU with no injuries. Not very wise to keep the mask on after fleeing the scene. Then again, engaging in criminal activity isn't very wise either.

***

In other news, Suspected robber shot and killed by victim with concealed carry weapon
Quote:
Officers say the victim was coming home from a movie theater with family members, and while they were parked Arkeem Bennett approached them with a handgun in an attempt to rob them.

The victim who holds a concealed carry permit took out his gun and shot at Arkeem in self-defense, one of the bullets struck Arkeem but he was able to get away in his car with another person driving.

According to Detective Goeckel The victim informed 911 about the incident, and they later found Bennett dead.
...
His mother says he didn't deserve to be killed.
DGU with 1 death. Even in a parked car the victim was able to draw and fire avoiding any injuries to himself or his family.
  #1397  
Old 06-01-2018, 11:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Shodan View Post
If I haven't been whooshed - cite?

Lincoln won a wrestling match with a local leader of a sort of gang, but that is not really the same thing.

Regards,
Shodan
Do you have a penny? Can you ask someone to show you a five? I promise you; same, same.

ETA: From Wikipedia (I know):
Quote:
Abraham Lincoln (February 12, 1809 – April 15, 1865) was an American statesman and lawyer who served as the 16th President of the United States from March 1861 until his assassination in April 1865.

Last edited by kayaker; 06-01-2018 at 11:10 AM.
  #1398  
Old 06-01-2018, 11:52 AM
Shodan is offline
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If I may inquire without offense, WTF are you talking about?

On preview - never mind. I am afraid if you explain it, I will understand it, and then I would be tempted to make a DGU against the voices in my head, and someone could get hurt.

Regards,
Shodan
  #1399  
Old 06-01-2018, 11:58 AM
manson1972's Avatar
manson1972 is offline
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Yeah, I thought it was common knowledge that Lincoln was on the penny and the $5 bill. And that he was the 16th President. I can't understand what the confusion is about.
  #1400  
Old 06-01-2018, 06:00 PM
ElvisL1ves is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manson1972 View Post
There doesn't have to be a civilian DGU story. Just a positive news story. Gang members being killed is positive, isn't it?
We are not allowed to discuss why someone would think so.
Reply

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