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  #701  
Old 05-08-2018, 01:44 PM
YamatoTwinkie YamatoTwinkie is offline
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Nymag article lays out the case for why that other $1.6m payment that Cohn negotiated to cover up for an abortion was likely made on behalf of Trump as well, and not RNC finance chair Elliott Broidy.
  #702  
Old 05-08-2018, 03:15 PM
Bijou Drains Bijou Drains is offline
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he might lose a few voters if he paid for an abortion. But like he said , he could murder someone in broad daylight and it doesn't matter.

Remember John Edwards got his friend to claim he fathered the misstress baby when Edwards was the real dad.

Last edited by Bijou Drains; 05-08-2018 at 03:18 PM.
  #703  
Old 05-08-2018, 04:34 PM
kenobi 65 kenobi 65 is offline
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Remember John Edwards got his friend to claim he fathered the misstress baby when Edwards was the real dad.
Yup, and when Edwards' infidelities (and efforts to conceal them) finally came to light, his political career died. I think you're right; I fear that most of Trump's supporters will continue to either (a) believe that all of this is a lie, or (b) hypocritically insist that it doesn't matter.
  #704  
Old 05-08-2018, 04:53 PM
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Yup, and when Edwards' infidelities (and efforts to conceal them) finally came to light, his political career died. I think you're right; I fear that most of Trump's supporters will continue to either (a) believe that all of this is a lie, or (b) hypocritically insist that it doesn't matter.
Similarly, Schneiderman was an up-and-coming Democrat just 24 hours ago. He is now toxic and will likely never have a political career again. I hold Anthony Weiner up as an example of what happens to Democrats who try to get back into the fold after a horrible sex scandal.

Republicans, on the other hand, nominate their scumbags to Senate or even POTUS.

[Don't tell me a damn thing about Bill Clinton. He hasn't run for elected office since the Lewinsky affair came to light.]
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  #705  
Old 05-08-2018, 05:25 PM
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he might lose a few voters if he paid for an abortion. But like he said , he could murder someone in broad daylight and it doesn't matter.

Remember John Edwards got his friend to claim he fathered the misstress baby when Edwards was the real dad.
If the abortion was performed on fifth avenue then a conservative could literally say that "Trump killed a baby on fifth Avenue and I still support him!"
  #706  
Old 05-08-2018, 05:35 PM
John Mace John Mace is offline
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Yup, and when Edwards' infidelities (and efforts to conceal them) finally came to light, his political career died. I think you're right; I fear that most of Trump's supporters will continue to either (a) believe that all of this is a lie, or (b) hypocritically insist that it doesn't matter.
Edwards' political career died when he did poorly in the presidential primary. He dropped out of the race in January, which tells us how good he thought his chances were early on.

Last edited by John Mace; 05-08-2018 at 05:35 PM.
  #707  
Old 05-16-2018, 01:25 PM
Bijou Drains Bijou Drains is offline
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Trump disclosed he paid back Cohen at least $100k last year

https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/16/polit...ort/index.html
  #708  
Old 05-16-2018, 01:56 PM
Defensive Indifference Defensive Indifference is offline
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Trump disclosed he paid back Cohen at least $100k last year

https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/16/polit...ort/index.html
And the Office of Government Ethics (OGE) sent a letter to Rosenstein saying, in part: "OGE has concluded that the information related to the payment made by Mr. Cohen is required to be reported and that the information provided meets the disclosure requirement for a reportable liability." The former OGE director, Walter Shaub, says:
Quote:
This is tantamount to a criminal referral. OGE has effectively reported the president to DOJ for potentially committing a crime.
AIUI, the argument is that Trump committed a crime by not reporting this last year. Or something. Campaign finance laws are kind of a mystery to me.
  #709  
Old 05-16-2018, 02:09 PM
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I suppose this is as good of a thread to ask as any...

Hypothetical.

Suppose Trump was paying x amount of dollars to Cohen every month to be used as Cohen saw fit to take care of Trumpian legal oppsies.

Trump rights it off as a business expense.

But, that money can't be written off as a business expense if Cohen uses it to pay hush money/bribe or perform illegal acts.

So, if hypothetically Trump did not know what the money was used for, would he still be on the hook for tax evasion if he rights it off as a 'business' expense?
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  #710  
Old 06-06-2018, 02:43 PM
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Stormy's previous lawyer got some 'splainin to do. Apparently, her own was colluding with Cohen and Hannity.
  #711  
Old 06-06-2018, 04:16 PM
Bijou Drains Bijou Drains is offline
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her lawyer is on TV more than ads that say "ask your doctor about ..."
  #712  
Old 06-07-2018, 03:06 PM
Bijou Drains Bijou Drains is offline
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Trump is not happy he can't watch Stormy type videos in the White House.

https://www.rollingstone.com/politic...-house-w521215
  #713  
Old 06-07-2018, 03:07 PM
Procrustus Procrustus is offline
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Trump is not happy he can't watch Stormy type videos in the White House.

https://www.rollingstone.com/politic...-house-w521215
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  #714  
Old 06-07-2018, 03:16 PM
Bijou Drains Bijou Drains is offline
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he doesn't have to use the WH network to watch porn. He can do what a lot of people do when they don't want to be found , use a burner phone.
  #715  
Old 06-07-2018, 04:56 PM
EddyTeddyFreddy EddyTeddyFreddy is offline
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he doesn't have to use the WH network to watch porn. He can do what a lot of people do when they don't want to be found , use a burner phone.
You're assuming he even knows what that is.
  #716  
Old 07-12-2018, 12:22 AM
Measure for Measure Measure for Measure is online now
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Free stormy

Stormy has just been placed under arrest in Ohio.

CNBC: https://www.cnbc.com/2018/07/12/stor...-avenatti.html

Her attorney tweets, "She was arrested for allegedly allowing a customer to touch her while on stage in a non sexual manner! Are you kidding me? They are devoting law enforcement resources to sting operations for this? There has to be higher priorities!!! #SetUp #Basta"

https://twitter.com/MichaelAvenatti/...73930543980544
  #717  
Old 07-12-2018, 12:10 PM
JohnT JohnT is offline
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Charges dropped.

https://twitter.com/AP/status/1017452522943012864?s=19
  #718  
Old 07-12-2018, 12:21 PM
DesertDog DesertDog is offline
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Stormy has just been placed under arrest in Ohio.

CNBC: https://www.cnbc.com/2018/07/12/stor...-avenatti.html
I love it.
Quote:
Police said Daniels was busted after allegedly touching three different undercover vice police officers during her performance at the Sirens club, in violation of state law barring anyone who is not a family member from touching a dancer who is either nude or semi-nude.
S-o-o-o I guess it's okay for a 45 year-old father to touch his naked eighteen year-old daughter so long as she is on a stage?
  #719  
Old 07-12-2018, 01:11 PM
Measure for Measure Measure for Measure is online now
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More details here. Stormy appears to have gotten off on had charges dismissed based upon a technicality. The law applies to regular performers and not guest performers. Stormy was a guest performer at Sirens Gentleman's Club of Columbus, Ohio. So there wasn't probable cause to proceed with the case.
  #720  
Old 07-12-2018, 01:30 PM
manson1972 manson1972 is offline
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Can someone explain the charges better? If the law says you can't touch a stripper, how'd SHE get arrested for it? She's the stripper and she touched other people who I presume were not strippers.
  #721  
Old 07-12-2018, 01:56 PM
Bricker Bricker is offline
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Can someone explain the charges better? If the law says you can't touch a stripper, how'd SHE get arrested for it? She's the stripper and she touched other people who I presume were not strippers.
With the caveat that I am not licensed to practice law in Ohio:

The law in question appears to be Ohio Rev. Code Ann. § 2907.40, which provides in pertinent part at (C):

Quote:
(1) No patron who is not a member of the employee's immediate family shall knowingly touch any employee while that employee is nude or seminude or touch the clothing of any employee while that employee is nude or seminude.

(2) No employee who regularly appears nude or seminude on the premises of a sexually oriented business, while on the premises of that sexually oriented business and while nude or seminude, shall knowingly touch a patron who is not a member of the employee's immediate family or another employee who is not a member of the employee's immediate family or the clothing of a patron who is not a member of the employee's immediate family or another employee who is not a member of the employee's immediate family or allow a patron who is not a member of the employee's immediate family or another employee who is not a member of the employee's immediate family to touch the employee or the clothing of the employee.
I have bolded the portion that would seemingly be violated when a performer touches a patron.
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  #722  
Old 07-12-2018, 02:02 PM
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I presume the law is intended to forbid lap dances and similar services, because that goes beyond stripping and more towards prostitution.
  #723  
Old 07-12-2018, 02:02 PM
manson1972 manson1972 is offline
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Ah ok. Thanks! That (2) wasn't mentioned before.
  #724  
Old 07-12-2018, 02:07 PM
Bricker Bricker is offline
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More details here. Stormy appears to have gotten off on had charges dismissed based upon a technicality. The law applies to regular performers and not guest performers. Stormy was a guest performer at Sirens Gentleman's Club of Columbus, Ohio. So there wasn't probable cause to proceed with the case.
Right -- although there might have been probable cause for the arrest. But when it became clear that Ms. Daniels was not an "employee who regularly appears nude or seminude on the premises" of Siren's, it would have been clear that the prosecution could not prove that element of the crime.
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  #725  
Old 07-12-2018, 02:07 PM
manson1972 manson1972 is offline
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Just wondering how lap dances worked in Ohio, I found this story: Ohio's strip club law rarely cited over the last decade
  #726  
Old 07-12-2018, 02:54 PM
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Apparently Ms. Daniels was one of three dancers arrested, with the other two being Ohio natives and presumably "regular" performers within the meaning of the law.
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  #727  
Old 07-12-2018, 03:40 PM
Measure for Measure Measure for Measure is online now
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Just wondering how lap dances worked in Ohio, I found this story: Ohio's strip club law rarely cited over the last decade
The law was passed some 10 years ago. According to the September 2017 article:
The Franklin County Sherriff’s office found no instances in which the 2007 law had been cited, according to spokesman Marc Gofstein.

“We have not had any complaints or reasons to apply this law. We have gone back as far as we have records for, and nothing has been found,” he said.
Columbus is located in Franklin County.

Now perhaps they started enforcing the law after the 9/2017 article. Or perhaps this is the first time they are enforcing the law ever. If it's the latter, I opine that the Vice Squad should familiarize themselves with laws that they are not accustomed to enforcing. If they do not, that is bad police practice and deserves administrative penalty, e.g. a writeup.

Furthermore, there is the appearance of impropriety: extralegal considerations may have played a role in law enforcement. There is basis for further investigation by journalists and the citizenry.
  #728  
Old 07-12-2018, 04:36 PM
Evil Economist Evil Economist is offline
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Or perhaps this is the first time they are enforcing the law ever.
Well, that would certainly be odd.
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  #729  
Old 07-12-2018, 05:16 PM
Bricker Bricker is offline
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Furthermore, there is the appearance of impropriety: extralegal considerations may have played a role in law enforcement. There is basis for further investigation by journalists and the citizenry.
If, as you suggest, extralegal -- political -- considerations caused law enforcement to begin an investigation, but the investigation revealed legitimate probable cause of a crime, what do you think should happen?
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  #730  
Old 07-12-2018, 06:10 PM
Measure for Measure Measure for Measure is online now
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Consider it a management problem

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Originally Posted by Bricker View Post
If, as you suggest, extralegal -- political -- considerations caused law enforcement to begin an investigation, but the investigation revealed legitimate probable cause of a crime, what do you think should happen?
I'm honestly unsure. I can only provide 1/2 of an answer.

Preamble:
1. Law abiding African Americans must be wary of cross country trips due to unjust legal harassment. This offends my sense of justice.

2. Policework ain't easy.

3. Police reform is a heavy lift. But an important matter given 1) and ongoing LE threads in the Pit.

4. Crime has declined a lot since the early 1990s, probably due to lower levels of lead in the blood of male 16-30 year olds.

Ok, now say that investigation revealed the sting operation was conducted because officers were determined to wreck vengeance on Ms. Daniels. (Other scenarios are plausible - maybe they wanted to see a pr0n show at taxpayer's expense for example.) While they were there they found blue laws being broken. They also trumped up some charges for Stormy that they knew or had reason to know were bogus.

Upon review, their supervisors might

a) respond as they would to any other police officer who enforces nonsense laws. That might vary according to the officer's experience.

b) Penalize them for drawing up false charges for Stormy, as they would if any other sort of false charges were brought up,

c) consider the motives for bringing false charges (personal political preferences) an aggravating factor for b).
----------

Ok, now say the laws they were enforcing were commonly enforced and correctly applied to Stormy, but that the officers were conducting the investigation because they had it in for Stormy. In that case,
a) Well that didn't happen
and
b) I'm honestly unsure at present. I will say that such practices are decidedly non-optimal and should be subject to monitoring and review. I suppose I'd need to work with a better hypothetical to get a grasp on it. Even then...

Last edited by Measure for Measure; 07-12-2018 at 06:12 PM.
  #731  
Old 07-12-2018, 06:22 PM
Bricker Bricker is offline
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I suppose I'd need to work with a better hypothetical to get a grasp on it. Even then...
I'll take a run at crafting one; the issue of pretextual stops is not a new one in the legal world, after all.

So let's imagine that the officers hotly deny any improper motives for their investigation, but some kind of extrinisic evidence shows up -- maybe a voice mail recording or a text message exchange between the officers saying that they should go undercover at the club because "Once a whore, always a whore," and they are confident they'll find something to hang an arrest on that will "teach her to mess with Trump."

Nonetheless, when at the club, they have hidden body cameras that when reviewed clearly reveal Daniels (and other dancers) touching patrons and inviting patrons to touch them, which is (as to the other dancers, if not Daniels) inarguably a violation of Ohio law.

What should happen?
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Last edited by Bricker; 07-12-2018 at 06:22 PM.
  #732  
Old 07-12-2018, 06:28 PM
Chronos Chronos is offline
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It's not hard to imagine a hypothetical where the law applies to all dancers, not only to "regular" dancers. If, in that hypothetical, the police decided to enforce that law specifically against Daniels, even though it's never or almost never enforced against anyone else in its decade-long history, then that still looks like a problem to me. I don't know what the solution is or should be (though a lawyer might know), but a law that's selectively enforced depending on the politics of the offender is worse than no law at all.

EDIT: Oh, and I'm taking it as a given that the police specifically chose to enforce the law in this specific instance because it was Daniels performing. The police could argue that it was just a new commissioner who was determined to crack down on strip joints, or the like, but the fact that the first time this law has ever been enforced just happened to be against the single most politically-significant adult performer in the country (and heck, how often is any adult performer politically significant?) makes that argument very hard to buy.

Last edited by Chronos; 07-12-2018 at 06:33 PM.
  #733  
Old 07-12-2018, 07:12 PM
Bricker Bricker is offline
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It's not hard to imagine a hypothetical where the law applies to all dancers, not only to "regular" dancers. If, in that hypothetical, the police decided to enforce that law specifically against Daniels, even though it's never or almost never enforced against anyone else in its decade-long history, then that still looks like a problem to me. I don't know what the solution is or should be (though a lawyer might know), but a law that's selectively enforced depending on the politics of the offender is worse than no law at all.

EDIT: Oh, and I'm taking it as a given that the police specifically chose to enforce the law in this specific instance because it was Daniels performing. The police could argue that it was just a new commissioner who was determined to crack down on strip joints, or the like, but the fact that the first time this law has ever been enforced just happened to be against the single most politically-significant adult performer in the country (and heck, how often is any adult performer politically significant?) makes that argument very hard to buy.
According to CBS, the police claim to have been at the club as a part of a long-term investigation of illegal activity at city adult clubs.

I have no idea how true that is.
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Last edited by Bricker; 07-12-2018 at 07:12 PM.
  #734  
Old 07-12-2018, 07:20 PM
manson1972 manson1972 is offline
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According to CBS, the police claim to have been at the club as a part of a long-term investigation of illegal activity at city adult clubs.

I have no idea how true that is.
I doubt that an investigation of lap dances at strip clubs would have to be that "long-term"

Seems like quite a coincidence to me, but if the police showed records of busting similar stripper touching since the law was passed, that would definitely sway my opinion. I'm not holding my breath though.
  #735  
Old 07-12-2018, 07:40 PM
Measure for Measure Measure for Measure is online now
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I'm shocked, shocked! to find gambling at this establishment.

Ah. Progress from the SD hivemind.

Wiki on selective enforcement:
In law, selective enforcement occurs when government officials such as police officers, prosecutors, or regulators exercise enforcement discretion, which is the power to choose whether or how to punish a person who has violated the law. The biased use of enforcement discretion, such as that based on racial prejudice or corruption, is usually considered a legal abuse and a threat to the rule of law.
ISTM that selective enforcement by police officers for the purposes of political manipulation compromises the rule of law.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bricker View Post
According to CBS, the police claim to have been at the club as a part of a long-term investigation of illegal activity at city adult clubs.

I have no idea how true that is.
Could be true, in some world. That's why investigation is appropriate. Long term criminal inquiries into city adult clubs (snort) generally produce credible paper trails of one kind or another.

Big picture: I think cops should be paid a professional salary, even if they only have a high school diploma. But this job isn't for everyone, and they should be expected to uphold the law without fear or favor.
  #736  
Old 07-12-2018, 11:45 PM
Lord Feldon Lord Feldon is offline
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The law was passed some 10 years ago. According to the September 2017 article:
The Franklin County Sherriff’s office found no instances in which the 2007 law had been cited, according to spokesman Marc Gofstein.

“We have not had any complaints or reasons to apply this law. We have gone back as far as we have records for, and nothing has been found,” he said.
Columbus is located in Franklin County.
I think that's only records of citations by the sheriff's office. The sheriff's office would normally only deal with things happening in an area without its own police department.

Today's article lists some numbers for the entire county and city:

Quote:
Police said they began enforcing the laws for sexually oriented-business employees touching patrons this past fall. Franklin County Municipal Court records show 25 people have been charged under the illegal touching law so far in 2018, up from 16 in 2017 and seven in 2016.

Last edited by Lord Feldon; 07-12-2018 at 11:49 PM.
  #737  
Old 07-13-2018, 06:23 AM
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I enjoy the Columbus PD saying this arrest was part of a long-term undercover investigation into prostitution and human trafficking.
  #738  
Old 07-13-2018, 07:41 AM
manson1972 manson1972 is offline
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I enjoy the Columbus PD saying this arrest was part of a long-term undercover investigation into prostitution and human trafficking.
And they blew their cover by arresting a stripper who put her boobies on someone? That's some fine police work.
  #739  
Old 07-13-2018, 08:02 AM
Chronos Chronos is offline
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"A long term investigation of illegal activity at city adult clubs" sounds to me a lot like police officers wanting to go to strip clubs on the public dime.
  #740  
Old 07-13-2018, 09:22 AM
Defensive Indifference Defensive Indifference is offline
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If cop movies have taught me anything, it's that every investigation requires a cop to go into a strip club. Those places are the hubs of the underworld.
  #741  
Old 07-13-2018, 08:50 PM
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If cop movies have taught me anything, it's that every investigation requires a cop to go into a strip club. Those places are the hubs of the underworld.
Heck, it's also where you go to find the insurance executive you need to question, or subpoena the minister who's there "undercover".
  #742  
Old 07-14-2018, 03:11 PM
Measure for Measure Measure for Measure is online now
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Originally Posted by Lord Feldon View Post
I think that's only records of citations by the sheriff's office. The sheriff's office would normally only deal with things happening in an area without its own police department.

Today's article lists some numbers for the entire county and city:
That's interesting. Those numbers aren't exactly astronomical though. A full investigation would focus on the particular police department involved, as opposed to county-wide data.

Here's another data point: Ms. Daniel's lawyer Michael Avenatti found that the police officers involved posted a lot of pro-Trump image memes on their Facebook page. Click through for crowdsourced muckraking. https://twitter.com/HeerJeet/status/1018118505093160960

Could this be a case of retaliatory arrest, as in Lozman v. City of Riviera Beach?
https://www.faegrebd.com/en/insights...-beach-florida

https://ballotpedia.org/Lozman_v._City_of_Riviera_Beach "Does the existence of probable cause defeat a First Amendment retaliatory-arrest claim as a matter of law?" Last month, the Supremes voted with an 8-1 majority to punt the issue.
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