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  #5851  
Old 09-15-2015, 11:40 PM
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Gun maker Spike's Tactical is selling a Christian rifle.
http://www.dw.com/en/gun-maker-slamm...fle/a-18716538
Quote:
US arms maker Spike's Tactical has produced an assault rifle with Christian symbols to prevent "Muslim terrorists" from using it.
...
The company said the "Cruzado" or "Crusader" assault rifle used Christian iconography in order to deter Muslims from using it.

"We wanted to make sure we built a weapon that would never be able to be used by Muslim terrorists to kill innocent people or advance their radical agenda," said company spokesperson Ben Thomas, an Iraq and Afghanistan war veteran.
The rifle is engraved with Psalm 144:1.
Blessed be the Lord
my rock, who trains
my hands for war,
my fingers for battle
This is stupid on a number of levels.

In the first place, would the iconography and Bible verse stop Muslims from using it? Is there some sort of Islamic prohibition against using weapons with Bible verses? I'm skeptical.

In the second place, even if the engravings would prevent Muslims from using it, this outfit manufactures all kinds of weapons other than this rifle and which apparently have no such engravings; any of which a Muslim could presumably purchase. So what exactly is this rifle preventing?

In the third place, how does it stop crazy gun wielding non-Muslim killers, which currently seem to be a bigger problem in this country? Does Spike's tactical have a plan for preventing those murders? Are you less dead if your killer wasn't a Muslim?
  #5852  
Old 09-16-2015, 12:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Projammer View Post
Even if it were the only shot he's ever fired in his life, he's still miles ahead of the "trained, professional, police officers" mentioned in the other thread who shot at a fleeing suspect 38 times and hit him exactly once. In the leg. Therefore being an accident because LEOs are 'trained' to aim for the center of mass.
Are you implying it was okay for him to endanger other tenants by shooting in his apartment? To shoot someone who was fleeing? And to resort to a gun without securing his door better?
  #5853  
Old 09-16-2015, 12:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Esox Lucius View Post
I'm claiming that a no-guns rule in an apartment building is a no-brainer. The landlord has to consider the safety of all tenants. It shouldn't need to be pointed out to you that he can't depend on random people to use good sense in handling weapons in their apartments.

Let's see if this was legitimate use of a gun:
--The article doesn't say, but it looks like Harvey Lembo didn't take a course in gun safety, something that's promoted regularly by gun owners as a prerequisite for responsible gun use. Instead of knocking this guy for irresponsibly neglecting to take a course, you're lauding him as a good example. What makes him different?

--With no threat of death or injury to himself, he shot at a moving target in an apartment without considering the danger of accidentally shooting someone next door. Hitting the intruder sounded more like dumb luck than anything. Lembo himself said, "Just barely missed the side of the wall." Explain that as responsible gun use.

--Lembo's frustration is understandable, but there's no mention in the article that he took any measures to prevent break-ins other than getting a gun. What about the maxim that guns should only be used as a last line of defence? That's one of the few statements from gun owners that I wholeheartedly agree with because it acknowledges the serious consequences of using guns. Lembo was oblivious to those consequences.
He didn't show himself to be responsible at all. I can't believe that you, who presumably advocates responsible gun use, are supporting him.
Do you normally cry crocodile tears when thugs get shot like the animals they are, or only when the potential victim is in a wheelchair?
  #5854  
Old 09-16-2015, 01:32 AM
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Thugs? I swear you guys are all living in 1930s movies, pretending to be Humphrey Bogart.
  #5855  
Old 09-16-2015, 06:55 AM
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Do you normally cry crocodile tears when thugs get shot like the animals they are, or only when the potential victim is in a wheelchair?
I thought the potential victim was in a pill bottle.
  #5856  
Old 09-16-2015, 08:44 AM
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Thugs? I swear you guys are all living in 1930s movies, pretending to be Humphrey Bogart.
It's the new N-word, nothing more.
  #5857  
Old 09-16-2015, 09:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Esox Lucius View Post
I'm claiming that a no-guns rule in an apartment building is a no-brainer. The landlord has to consider the safety of all tenants. It shouldn't need to be pointed out to you that he can't depend on random people to use good sense in handling weapons in their apartments.

Let's see if this was legitimate use of a gun:
[INDENT]--The article doesn't say, but it looks like Harvey Lembo didn't take a course in gun safety, something that's promoted regularly by gun owners as a prerequisite for responsible gun use. Instead of knocking this guy for irresponsibly neglecting to take a course, you're lauding him as a good example. What makes him different?
He's a former police officer.

Quote:
--With no threat of death or injury to himself, he shot at a moving target in an apartment without considering the danger of accidentally shooting someone next door. Hitting the intruder sounded more like dumb luck than anything. Lembo himself said, "Just barely missed the side of the wall." Explain that as responsible gun use.
Lembo ordered the intruder to remain still; the intruder bolted. Lembo was in fear of injury or death, by his own words. Moreover, on those facts support the inference.
  #5858  
Old 09-16-2015, 10:17 AM
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Shhh! Don't confuse him with facts. They only make him whine.
  #5859  
Old 09-16-2015, 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Bricker View Post
He's a former police officer.



Lembo ordered the intruder to remain still; the intruder bolted. Lembo was in fear of injury or death, by his own words. Moreover, on those facts support the inference.
Does the apartment complex have the legal right to restrict the use of firearms within it confines?

Is that right voided because a bad guy was hit rather than say a three year old watching TV in the apartment next door?

Last edited by Buck Godot; 09-16-2015 at 11:03 AM.
  #5860  
Old 09-16-2015, 12:07 PM
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Does the apartment complex have the legal right to restrict the use of firearms within it confines?
I don't know about Maine but in Minnesota the answer is "no". Landlords have no right to forbid tenants from owning guns or even having guests with guns. As for the use of firearms, that falls under the general laws covering property damage, assault, self-defense, etc.

Quote:
Is that right voided because a bad guy was hit rather than say a three year old watching TV in the apartment next door?
It would be criminally irresponsible to fire a high-penetrating round in an apartment building with thin walls. The article only identifies the gun used as a 7mm revolver so I don't know the specifics, but that's roughly equivalent to a .32 caliber- not exactly a cannon.

You don't really believe anyone not on active duty is competent to own a firearm, do you?
  #5861  
Old 09-16-2015, 12:09 PM
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You don't really believe anyone not on active duty is competent to own a firearm, do you?
I don't know. But the least we could do is make them prove it before we sell them guns, don't you think?
  #5862  
Old 09-16-2015, 02:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Bricker View Post
He's a former police officer.

Lembo ordered the intruder to remain still; the intruder bolted. Lembo was in fear of injury or death, by his own words. Moreover, on those facts support the inference.
He was a police officer 49 years ago, who violated his lease agreement, discharged his gun dangerously in an apartment building, and broke state law. If that's any indication of how much he retained of his police training, I wouldn't put much stock in his firearms expertise.

Gun owners are so quick to proclaim their responsibility with guns as justification for having them, yet that flies out the window with this guy. That's the disconnect I don't get.

Lembo shot the intruder after he "bolted", in his own words. That is not self-defence. For very good reason, the law makes a distinction between vengeance and justice. You, as a lawyer IIRC, should know that. Lembo didn't make that distinction and now he's being investigated for possible charges, rightfully according to state law.
  #5863  
Old 09-16-2015, 02:30 PM
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Does the apartment complex have the legal right to restrict the use of firearms within it confines?

Is that right voided because a bad guy was hit rather than say a three year old watching TV in the apartment next door?
I read somewhere yesterday that a state-run housing complex can't impose gun restrictions, but a private landlord, as the one in this case is, is allowed to. As a WAG, liability insurance rates might have some influence on their decision.
  #5864  
Old 09-16-2015, 02:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Esox Lucius View Post
<...>, discharged his gun dangerously in an apartment building,
How do you discharge a gun safely in an apartment building? And if you say "you can't", then does that mean that a narcotics task force executing a no-knock warrant wouldn't perforate the walls, floor and ceiling if they thought they saw me reach for a gun?

The fact that he chose a small-caliber revolver seems to me to indicate he was aware of the need to avoid over-penetration

Last edited by Lumpy; 09-16-2015 at 02:43 PM.
  #5865  
Old 09-16-2015, 04:49 PM
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You probably can't discharge a gun safely in an apartment. I imagine it's possible for a .22 calibre bullet to go through a wall. The landlord's policy was no guns, not ".32 calibre and under allowed". As for the police, of course they should be held accountable if they needlessly endanger other lives. So what?

Neither you nor anyone else has commented on the lack of wisdom in not securing his door better. His place was broken into four times and he didn't do anything about the door. What better way to prevent threats to your property and yourself than by keeping burglars out, rather than resorting to a gun once they're inside.

Last edited by Esox Lucius; 09-16-2015 at 04:50 PM.
  #5866  
Old 09-16-2015, 06:25 PM
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I'm unaware of any report indicating his door wasn't secured. Cite? (serious, not snark)

Last edited by Lumpy; 09-16-2015 at 06:28 PM.
  #5867  
Old 09-16-2015, 06:58 PM
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Neither you nor anyone else has commented on the lack of wisdom in not securing his door better. His place was broken into four times and he didn't do anything about the door. What better way to prevent threats to your property and yourself than by keeping burglars out, rather than resorting to a gun once they're inside.
I've read all the linked articles. I didn't see anything addressing how his door was secured. Where are you getting your information such that you feel confident criticizing his door security?

There is no 7mm Russian revolver of which I am aware. One presumes the reporter(s) meant this antique. They can be found for around $100. I have a specimen in my own collection. The cartridge is anemic and any kind of dramatic overpenetration is unlikely. The fact that he hit the burglar is, in fact, a testament to the old boy's shooting skills. There is no recoil to speak of, but Nagants are incredibly unergonomic. The grip is skinny and poorly shaped. The sights are difficult to pick up in dim light. Most importantly, Nagants are famous for insanely heavy DA trigger pulls which are due, in part, to all that is going on mechanically in these curious old guns.

Last edited by Scumpup; 09-16-2015 at 06:59 PM.
  #5868  
Old 09-17-2015, 02:21 PM
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I'm unaware of any report indicating his door wasn't secured. Cite? (serious, not snark)
Securing his door better, I said. To repeat from post #5850:

Quote:
"Lembo, asked how he planned to protect himself against potential burglars without his gun, said, Im going to have to bolt myself in.
So, after multiple burglaries, his door still didn't have a bolt lock, just the lock on the doorknob (there was a close-up of it in one of the news videos). I've opened a locked door like that myself with a credit card a couple of times when I locked myself out of the house. It's easy, quick and quiet, a burglar's dream. It looks like Harvey Lembo was an easy target not because he's in a wheelchair, but because his apartment was so easy to break into. Go ahead and explain how that justifies getting a gun.

You can quibble all you want about the size of Lembo's gun and the ammo, but shooting inside an apartment building is just plain dangerous, period, no matter what gun it is. If you really cared about responsible gun use, you'd condemn idiocy like that instead of twisting yourself into a pretzel to justify it.

No doubt, the NRA will praise Harvey Lembo for his courage in not having the brains to put better locks on his door, and will add his story to their statistics on defensive gun use. And gun owners across the country will applaud him without thinking twice about it, just like you did. Right?

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I've read all the linked articles. I didn't see anything addressing how his door was secured.
You didn't look closely enough. All of the above applies to you, too.
  #5869  
Old 09-17-2015, 02:35 PM
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You are assuming that his reference to bolting himself in means he has no bolt. That is an unwarranted assumption on your part that you aretreating as a fact.

Here's a fact: I posted all that stuff about the revolver mostly because I know technical and historical information about guns tends to give a certain subset of people redass. They know little to nothing about firearms as mechanical objects, though they are prone to imagine things and make WAGs, and they just HATE being reminded that they hold really strong opinions on something they don't actually understand.
  #5870  
Old 09-17-2015, 03:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Esox Lucius View Post
You can quibble all you want about the size of Lembo's gun and the ammo, but shooting inside an apartment building is just plain dangerous, period, no matter what gun it is. If you really cared about responsible gun use, you'd condemn idiocy like that instead of twisting yourself into a pretzel to justify it.
I repeat my question about the no-knock narcotics raid: why are ten men prepared to fire full-auto M4s in my apartment if it's unacceptably dangerous to the other tenants?
  #5871  
Old 09-17-2015, 09:46 PM
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You are assuming that his reference to bolting himself in means he has no bolt. That is an unwarranted assumption on your part that you aretreating as a fact.
I hope you're not defending him because he might have had a bolt lock all along and still didn't use it.

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Originally Posted by Scumpup View Post
Here's a fact: I posted all that stuff about the revolver mostly because I know technical and historical information about guns tends to give a certain subset of people redass. They know little to nothing about firearms as mechanical objects, though they are prone to imagine things and make WAGs, and they just HATE being reminded that they hold really strong opinions on something they don't actually understand.
Got it. You know guns so you know everything. I shall darken your posts no more.
  #5872  
Old 09-17-2015, 09:49 PM
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I repeat my question about the no-knock narcotics raid: why are ten men prepared to fire full-auto M4s in my apartment if it's unacceptably dangerous to the other tenants?
Let's get this tedium over with in one post. Because police have more authority by necessity but that doesn't mean they can abuse that authority recklessly, etc. etc. Now you say police are a hired warrior class with excessive power, then I say that's an unfair characterization, then you say no it isn't cuz guns yada yada yada. There, that was quicker and just as productive.

Got anything to say about Lembo not having a bolt lock on his door, or not using it if he had one?
  #5873  
Old 09-17-2015, 10:51 PM
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Got anything to say about Lembo not having a bolt lock on his door, or not using it if he had one?
TBCF, he lived in an apartment: landlords/managers typically have double-keyed locks so that they can enter any apartment at will with a master key or open the door if the tenant has bugged out and left it locked. Because of that, they tend to be a bit restrictive wrt how you can modify your locks.

Last edited by eschereal; 09-17-2015 at 10:52 PM.
  #5874  
Old 09-18-2015, 08:10 AM
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I posted all that stuff about the revolver mostly because I know technical and historical information about guns tends to give a certain subset of people redass. They know little to nothing about firearms as mechanical objects, though they are prone to imagine things and make WAGs, and they just HATE being reminded that they hold really strong opinions on something they don't actually understand.
And yet you know absolutely nothing about what is important. You reject the notion that it even exists.
  #5875  
Old 09-18-2015, 10:42 AM
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What if the burglar junkies came in through the window?
  #5876  
Old 09-18-2015, 11:56 AM
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What if the burglar junkies had themselves been armed with something packing a bit more punch than a small caliber revolver? What if they panicked at the sight of Oldfart McSlowdraw's gun and shot him dead before he could react?

Why would anyone encourage people to try and defend themselves with underpowered, unergonomic, small caliber revolvers with dodgy sights and a heavy trigger pull? (Thanks for the information Scumpup! Truly appreciate an opportunity to learn, always.)
  #5877  
Old 09-18-2015, 12:14 PM
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I wouldn't encourage anyone to pick a Nagant revolver for self-defense. I seldom fire mine even for fun. Why the old guy had one is anybody's guess. IMO, he probably had one because they can be purchased cheaply. Typically, they sell for around $100 and come with a mil-surp flap holster and a cleaning rod. It might have seemed like an affordable option to him and he did use it successfully.
FWIW, my low opinion of the Nagant is not universally held. A very good friend of mine was a cop in Kursk and was issued a Nagant revolver. He preferred it over the Makarov, Tokarev, and Stechkin pistols that he encountered while in the military. He likes shooting my Nagant when he accompanies me to the range. Shoots it well too. He's a stonemason now, though, and has Godzilla-level grip strength.
  #5878  
Old 09-18-2015, 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Esox Lucius View Post
Let's get this tedium over with in one post. Because police have more authority by necessity but that doesn't mean they can abuse that authority recklessly, etc. etc.
So in other words, if Lembo had shot through a wall and killed that 3-year old watching t.v., he would be a murderer, a criminally irresponsible yahoo, etc. etc. But if the narcotics task force had opened fire because Lembo was reaching for his glasses in the dark, then the dead 3-year old would just be a tragic accident incident to the War On Drugs. You were saying that it's impossible to safely and responsibly fire a gun in an apartment building; so just what do the police think they're going to do with those guns? Are they there for show as a bluff? Or are the task force members all descendants of Annie Oakley and can be trusted to fire with superhuman accuracy, unlike your typical troglodyte gun owner?

Quote:
Got anything to say about Lembo not having a bolt lock on his door, or not using it if he had one?
He is in a wheelchair; also I don't know if he meant a simple sliding bolt or if by "bolt myself in" he meant something more elaborate like barring the door.

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What if the burglar junkies had themselves been armed with something packing a bit more punch than a small caliber revolver? What if they panicked at the sight of Oldfart McSlowdraw's gun and shot him dead before he could react?
Ah yes, the old "if we arm ourselves the criminals will just escalate" argument. AKA, blaming the victim for forcing those poor criminals to have to resort to desperate measures. The answer, posted multiple times before, is that fortunately not too many people will resort to first-degree murder just to commit a robbery; and if they do, they need to be hunted down like mad dogs and shot dead, hopefully by their next would-be victim.
  #5879  
Old 09-18-2015, 12:41 PM
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fortunately not too many people will resort to first-degree murder just to commit a robbery
This, of course, is a great argument for sitting there and just letting them take your stuff, which I'd pretty much agree with.

The real question is how many people would resort to first degree murder to avoid getting shot to death? Because that's the calculus once the homeowner pulls a gun.
  #5880  
Old 09-18-2015, 12:52 PM
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This, of course, is a great argument for sitting there and just letting them take your stuff, which I'd pretty much agree with.
It could be, if you have some way of knowing with absolute certainty that all they want is "your stuff."
  #5881  
Old 09-18-2015, 12:53 PM
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It could be, if you have some way of knowing with absolute certainty that all they want is "your stuff."
Natch. It's lose-lose, ain't it.

If only there were studies that could tell us which side loses more, houses with guns or houses without guns....
  #5882  
Old 09-18-2015, 01:01 PM
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TBCF, he lived in an apartment: landlords/managers typically have double-keyed locks so that they can enter any apartment at will with a master key or open the door if the tenant has bugged out and left it locked. Because of that, they tend to be a bit restrictive wrt how you can modify your locks.
Going by what he said, he was able to do use a bolt lock if he wanted to. Maybe there's more to it, but that's what he said.
  #5883  
Old 09-18-2015, 01:32 PM
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What if the burglar junkies came in through the window?
What if they came down the chimney? But they didn't. They used the path of least resistance. That's what this about, not hypotheticals.
  #5884  
Old 09-18-2015, 01:38 PM
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He is in a wheelchair; also I don't know if he meant a simple sliding bolt or if by "bolt myself in" he meant something more elaborate like barring the door.
Whatever he meant, he didn't do it and instead got a gun that didn't make his door any more secure than it was the first four times he was broken into.
  #5885  
Old 09-18-2015, 01:57 PM
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So in other words, if Lembo had shot through a wall and killed that 3-year old watching t.v., he would be a murderer, a criminally irresponsible yahoo, etc. etc. But if the narcotics task force had opened fire because Lembo was reaching for his glasses in the dark, then the dead 3-year old would just be a tragic accident incident to the War On Drugs. You were saying that it's impossible to safely and responsibly fire a gun in an apartment building; so just what do the police think they're going to do with those guns? Are they there for show as a bluff? Or are the task force members all descendants of Annie Oakley and can be trusted to fire with superhuman accuracy, unlike your typical troglodyte gun owner?
The answer is in my quote that you used. That's why going down this road will just be tedious. Whatever I post won't mean anything to you.
  #5886  
Old 09-18-2015, 02:38 PM
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Natch. It's lose-lose, ain't it.

If only there were studies that could tell us which side loses more, houses with guns or houses without guns....
If only it were about the odds rather than the stakes....
  #5887  
Old 09-18-2015, 03:51 PM
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(Added bolding mine)

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Originally Posted by Esox Lucius View Post
You can quibble all you want about the size of Lembo's gun and the ammo, but shooting inside an apartment building is just plain dangerous, period, no matter what gun it is. If you really cared about responsible gun use, you'd condemn idiocy like that instead of twisting yourself into a pretzel to justify it.
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Originally Posted by Lumpy View Post
I repeat my question about the no-knock narcotics raid: why are ten men prepared to fire full-auto M4s in my apartment if it's unacceptably dangerous to the other tenants?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Esox Lucius View Post
Let's get this tedium over with in one post. Because police have more authority by necessity but that doesn't mean they can abuse that authority recklessly, etc. etc. Now you say police are a hired warrior class with excessive power, then I say that's an unfair characterization, then you say no it isn't cuz guns yada yada yada. There, that was quicker and just as productive.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lumpy View Post
So in other words, if Lembo had shot through a wall and killed that 3-year old watching t.v., he would be a murderer, a criminally irresponsible yahoo, etc. etc. But if the narcotics task force had opened fire because Lembo was reaching for his glasses in the dark, then the dead 3-year old would just be a tragic accident incident to the War On Drugs. You were saying that it's impossible to safely and responsibly fire a gun in an apartment building; so just what do the police think they're going to do with those guns? Are they there for show as a bluff? Or are the task force members all descendants of Annie Oakley and can be trusted to fire with superhuman accuracy, unlike your typical troglodyte gun owner?
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Originally Posted by Esox Lucius View Post
The answer is in my quote that you used. That's why going down this road will just be tedious. Whatever I post won't mean anything to you.
What answer? I ask in all seriousness. All I can see that you said is essentially "because they're the police". I asked how does that make the situation qualitatively different, and I still don't have an answer beyond "read my post". Tell you what, Scumpup, please tell me if you see an answer to my question, because I don't.
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Old 09-18-2015, 06:27 PM
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He seems to consider "the police have more authority" to be a sufficient answer. YMMV. Mine certainly does.
  #5889  
Old 09-18-2015, 08:52 PM
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The police use magic bullets that don't penetrate sheetrock or paneling. Duh.
  #5890  
Old 09-19-2015, 02:09 PM
Esox Lucius is offline
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Originally Posted by Projammer View Post
The police use magic bullets that don't penetrate sheetrock or paneling. Duh.
There's your answer, Lumpy.
  #5891  
Old 09-21-2015, 11:25 AM
Damuri Ajashi is offline
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Originally Posted by Scumpup View Post
If they are like a lot of cops, that heavy trigger is compounded by not practicing enough to overcome it. Are NY cops required to take any post-academy firearms training or practice? Qualification once every 6 or 12 months doesn't count. It is neither training nor practice. It isn't even proof of minimal competency IMO.
The average NYC cop get less range time in a year than I do in a month. I think they have to fire something like 50 rounds a year and hit a man sized target 37 times from 7 yards away. Seriously, I could teach you to shoot that well in a weekend.
  #5892  
Old 09-21-2015, 11:35 AM
Damuri Ajashi is offline
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Originally Posted by davidm View Post
Gun maker Spike's Tactical is selling a Christian rifle.
http://www.dw.com/en/gun-maker-slamm...fle/a-18716538
The rifle is engraved with Psalm 144:1.
Blessed be the Lord
my rock, who trains
my hands for war,
my fingers for battle
This is stupid on a number of levels.

In the first place, would the iconography and Bible verse stop Muslims from using it? Is there some sort of Islamic prohibition against using weapons with Bible verses? I'm skeptical.

In the second place, even if the engravings would prevent Muslims from using it, this outfit manufactures all kinds of weapons other than this rifle and which apparently have no such engravings; any of which a Muslim could presumably purchase. So what exactly is this rifle preventing?

In the third place, how does it stop crazy gun wielding non-Muslim killers, which currently seem to be a bigger problem in this country? Does Spike's tactical have a plan for preventing those murders? Are you less dead if your killer wasn't a Muslim?
Spikes has had engraved lower receivers for a long time. Everything from comic book characters to military unit emblems to bible verses.

This bigotry is new.

They make mostly AR-15s and had a good reputation for making good quality guns for a very reasonable price. They have been losing that reputation as their prices have crept up and their quality has crept down. I suspect this is a marketing gimmick but maybe they ARE that stupid.
  #5893  
Old 09-21-2015, 12:13 PM
Damuri Ajashi is offline
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http://thehill.com/regulation/court-...me-dc-gun-laws

It really looks like intermediate scrutiny is the way things seem to be going.
  #5894  
Old 09-21-2015, 04:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Damuri Ajashi View Post
http://thehill.com/regulation/court-...me-dc-gun-laws

It really looks like intermediate scrutiny is the way things seem to be going.
The anti-registration people won't like it, but on the face of it, it doesn't actually infringe on keeping and bearing arms. I could live with it.
  #5895  
Old 09-28-2015, 08:24 AM
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Here's a good one: man injured in car jacking. Two men took this poor guys truck at a gas station. A witness to the crime pulled out his gun and started shooting. Missed the criminals, but shot the car jacking victim in the head. He then picked up all the bullet casings and fled the scene.
  #5896  
Old 09-28-2015, 10:24 AM
Esox Lucius is offline
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That must be the well-trained militia the founding fathers had in mind, the rugged upstanding patriot who takes responsibility for himself.
  #5897  
Old 09-28-2015, 10:39 AM
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Of course. Can't be littering - that would be wrong.
  #5898  
Old 09-28-2015, 01:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy Fun Ball View Post
Here's a good one: man injured in car jacking. Two men took this poor guys truck at a gas station. A witness to the crime pulled out his gun and started shooting. Missed the criminals, but shot the car jacking victim in the head. He then picked up all the bullet casings and fled the scene.
Maybe he was an off-duty cop.
  #5899  
Old 09-29-2015, 08:21 AM
Hentor the Barbarian is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy Fun Ball View Post
Here's a good one: man injured in car jacking. Two men took this poor guys truck at a gas station. A witness to the crime pulled out his gun and started shooting. Missed the criminals, but shot the car jacking victim in the head. He then picked up all the bullet casings and fled the scene.
Thank god for good guys with guns.
  #5900  
Old 09-29-2015, 12:45 PM
Truman Burbank is offline
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Just another poorly-trained outlier. Nothing to see here.
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