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  #51  
Old 07-14-2018, 10:50 AM
Kennedy1960 Kennedy1960 is offline
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Originally Posted by Huey Freeman View Post
Not all whites, just American whites. The British Europeans - the more enlightened version of yourselves - proclaimed today about Trump "You insult our country, attack our NHS, embarrass our Queen, undermine our Ďspecial relationshipí, humiliate our PM...and then smugly pose in Winston Churchillís armchair". The white folks in Britain are in the street. Yes, white folks in the street. Can you believe it?These white folks ain't havin' it, and see right through the bullshit. It must be like having a country filled with 66 million Bill Mahers and John Olivers. I envy Europe now more than ever; I see why Baldwin (and many other African-Americans) fled there soon as they had the means to do so.
Alright, so you're basically trolling. Understood.
  #52  
Old 07-14-2018, 10:53 AM
DCnDC DCnDC is offline
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The Maryland flag? They're all going to assume it's European but wonder which duchy it is.
Exactly. Confusion is good. At the least, it's a conversation starter.
  #53  
Old 07-14-2018, 10:59 AM
asahi asahi is offline
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Not ashamed, no. Our country has a bad leader, but that doesn't make her, or us, bad by association.
Well, it kinda does. I mean, how did he get into office? President Trump is a man-made disaster. And it's a disaster that Americans made, and nobody else.

I'll put it this way: when I lived overseas in the early 2000s, I encountered anti-American sentiments on a somewhat regular basis. This was during the Iraq war era. At that time, I pushed back. I defended our country and countrymen, even though I made it clear that I was no fan of Bush.

But this country has run out of excuses. When it knowingly votes for an anti-immigration platform, knowingly votes for racism, knowingly votes for someone who tells lie after blatant lie, the country can no longer just say "Hey, that's not our country, that's just our government. We can fix it next election." I think *we* are the problem.
  #54  
Old 07-14-2018, 11:15 AM
Kennedy1960 Kennedy1960 is offline
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Well, it kinda does. I mean, how did he get into office? President Trump is a man-made disaster. And it's a disaster that Americans made, and nobody else.

I'll put it this way: when I lived overseas in the early 2000s, I encountered anti-American sentiments on a somewhat regular basis. This was during the Iraq war era. At that time, I pushed back. I defended our country and countrymen, even though I made it clear that I was no fan of Bush.

But this country has run out of excuses. When it knowingly votes for an anti-immigration platform, knowingly votes for racism, knowingly votes for someone who tells lie after blatant lie, the country can no longer just say "Hey, that's not our country, that's just our government. We can fix it next election." I think *we* are the problem.
He didn't win the popular vote. If the raw vote of the majority of Americans counted he would've lost. But if we're being honest there are factors which propelled him into the White House beyond racism and this idea of America being a bad country:

1) Hillary Clinton being a poor campaigner who took certain elements of the electorate for granted; A Democratic campaign that was focused more on winning over moderate Republicans than by appealing to its base

2) A bitterly contested Democratic primary which created a fissure in said party.

3) 8 years of Obama creating incumbent fatigue.

4) The Democratic candidate was under investigation by the FBI during the whole campaign

5) The media focused on Trump, and you had genuine fake news scaring older people against the Dems.

Along with other mitigating factors. The fact is that the election was decided by three states. Another fact is that our populace at large is poorly educated and knows little about politics beyond personalities. Yet another fact is that besides the racism, Trump appealed to a sense of populism, a fatigue with the traditional dogmas of both parties. He ran as a Republican, but not as your traditional Reagan/Bush Republican. A portion of the country I think was tired of dynasties, and also tired of "politics as usual" and saw a guy who was a Washington outsider as a breath of fresh air, especially when contrasted with Hillary Clinton. And you had the Russian influence and Wikileaks to boot.

Basically I look at 2016 as an anomaly, a convergence of very special circumstances, a ratfucked election. I believe also that if the Democratic Party had nominated virtually any other person than Hillary, Trump would not have won.

If this country or its people were bad, we would've had President George Wallace in 1968, President Lyndon LaRouche in 88, President Pat Buchanan in 92, etc. Trump's election is an anomaly. And the fact that over 60% of our people disapprove of him speaks to our goodness as a nation.
  #55  
Old 07-14-2018, 11:38 AM
asahi asahi is offline
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Another fact is that our populace at large is poorly educated and knows little about politics beyond personalities.
I would agree, but this is not an excuse. The 60+ million people who voted for Trump and the millions of others who either voted third party or not at all have access to Google. Americans are just an incurious, intellectually lazy lot.

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Yet another fact is that besides the racism, Trump appealed to a sense of populism,
So what? The racism is what separated Trump from his Republican rivals, save Ted Cruz, who similarly engaged Islamophobia.

This country was essentially founded on white supremacy. Early American capitalism depended on it. It's true that England and European powers once had colonialism and systems of slavery and exploitation, but they have since addressed the issues of social and economic justice better than we have as a society.
  #56  
Old 07-14-2018, 11:45 AM
The Tooth The Tooth is offline
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If this country or its people were bad, we would've had President George Wallace in 1968, President Lyndon LaRouche in 88, President Pat Buchanan in 92, etc. Trump's election is an anomaly. And the fact that over 60% of our people disapprove of him speaks to our goodness as a nation.
You invade countries under false pretenses then have the citizens of that country tortured. You kidnap children and put them in internment camps with no means or intent to return them to their parents. Your cops kill black people with impunity. You shoot each other en masse constantly. Your country is bad.
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  #57  
Old 07-14-2018, 12:57 PM
Kennedy1960 Kennedy1960 is offline
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Originally Posted by asahi View Post
I would agree, but this is not an excuse. The 60+ million people who voted for Trump and the millions of others who either voted third party or not at all have access to Google. Americans are just an incurious, intellectually lazy lot.


So what? The racism is what separated Trump from his Republican rivals, save Ted Cruz, who similarly engaged Islamophobia.

This country was essentially founded on white supremacy. Early American capitalism depended on it. It's true that England and European powers once had colonialism and systems of slavery and exploitation, but they have since addressed the issues of social and economic justice better than we have as a society.
Again, I think the election came down to a myriad of factors that can't just easily be summed up as "America bad." The millions who voted third party I can respect for their moral conviction. But we do have a problem in this country with anti-intellectualism, I agree with that. It's a deep seated problem, too. Americans since at least the 50s have increasingly only looked at superficial qualities in candidates. Part of why we haven't had a bald President since Eisenhower.

The racism, but also the economic populism separated Trump from his peers in the primary. Remember, besides Mexico, a big part of his campaign was centered around how bad the TPP and NAFTA were for the American worker; about the 'forgotten Americans' who were being left behind in a global economy which was becoming increasingly focused on automation; he made promises to the coal miners and other such people that could never be kept, but which they wanted to hear. He talked about having things be manufactured in America again, bringing factories back. There are a lot of people who have been left behind in the last few decades who I believe were reeled in by that. Hillary making gaffes like saying we're gonna put coal miners out of their jobs didn't help (even though this isn't what she meant, it was taken out of context by the media and used against her). Her image as an ivory tower elitist Democrat who only had power because of her husband - an image created and fostered by nearly three decades of right wing media and conspiracies, as well as her own personality, didn't help. The perception that she stole her nomination from Bernie Sanders also didn't help. The perception of Hillary as being in ill health, fed by the right wing but also fueled by her recurring coughing fits and her collapsing on 9/11 didn't help.

Also, Trump was out there, campaigning. Holding rallies. Getting in touch with the people. It seemed like he was holding a rally every week. Hillary went for an entire month without any major speeches. Meanwhile, Trump dominated the news.

And yes, I agree that other countries handled social issues better than we have, but other countries are smaller than us, dealing with a less diverse and more easily focused people, and other countries don't have the handicap we do, which is the South. Also, other countries don't have a rampart right wing media apparatus poisoning the well of debate and twisting facts without penalty; we do ever since the end of the Fairness Doctrine.
  #58  
Old 07-14-2018, 01:03 PM
Kennedy1960 Kennedy1960 is offline
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You invade countries under false pretenses then have the citizens of that country tortured. You kidnap children and put them in internment camps with no means or intent to return them to their parents. Your cops kill black people with impunity. You shoot each other en masse constantly. Your country is bad.
I think you should switch off the news and actually visit here sometime. The way you make it sound, you'd think there's a war going on here. It's actually quite nice here. Yeah, we have problems with racism. But the media blows a lot of it out of proportion for ratings. Sensationalism sells. We also have a leader who has issues with Mexicans. He'll be out in 2 years. I love my country. I won't deny she has more than her share of flaws. But I'm not condemning her either.
  #59  
Old 07-14-2018, 01:26 PM
The Tooth The Tooth is offline
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I am.

Your problems won't go away when Trump does, he's just a symptom. You'll still have the people who voted for him, you'll still have a party full of his enablers who want to see you suffer and poison you for the sake of even more money.
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  #60  
Old 07-14-2018, 02:03 PM
Kennedy1960 Kennedy1960 is offline
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I am.

Your problems won't go away when Trump does, he's just a symptom. You'll still have the people who voted for him, you'll still have a party full of his enablers who want to see you suffer and poison you for the sake of even more money.
His supporters are mainly old people, and all due respect to the elderly, but when they die, a lot of the poison will die with them. Give it ten, twenty years and you'll see a very different GOP. Demographics are changing. Hispanics, and Hispanic/White mixes will make up the new majority. Millenials and Gen Z are projected to be more left wing in both parties. Hispanics aren't going to mistreat Mexicans, nor will they mistreat Whites or Blacks as most Hispanics have a bit of both in them. As such, racism will fade. Trump is not so much a symptom as he is the last, desperate gasp of older WASP people afraid of the future, who want to destroy the country and drink Liberal tears rather than accept the fact that they're losing, that they're dying out, that people are done with Evangelical Christianity and homophobia. They realize they lost the culture wars, and like children having a fit, they'd prefer to burn down this country than accept defeat.

My only wish is that the next generation was more Liberal and less Socialistic. But that's neither here nor there.
  #61  
Old 07-14-2018, 02:17 PM
The Tooth The Tooth is offline
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Stephen Miller is in his mid thirties. Richard Spencer just turned forty. I didn't see a lot of wrinkled faces in the crowd at the nazi bbq in Charlottesville last August either.
  #62  
Old 07-14-2018, 02:21 PM
Kennedy1960 Kennedy1960 is offline
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Stephen Miller is in his mid thirties. Richard Spencer just turned forty. I didn't see a lot of wrinkled faces in the crowd at the nazi bbq in Charlottesville last August either.
And that crowd was, what? 20, 30k out of a population of 300 million.

Gotta have faith man. It's gonna take time. But my generation will solve things.
  #63  
Old 07-14-2018, 02:35 PM
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  #64  
Old 07-14-2018, 02:35 PM
The Tooth The Tooth is offline
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Ha, faith. I have no such faith. Too many Americans think that the problem is just Trump and will go away when he does, or that your system of checks and balances is functional and things will fix themselves, or that It Couldn't Happen There in the first place.
  #65  
Old 07-14-2018, 03:52 PM
asahi asahi is offline
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And that crowd was, what? 20, 30k out of a population of 300 million.

Gotta have faith man. It's gonna take time. But my generation will solve things.
There are times to have faith, but this is not one of those times. Not when people in power are trying to destroy the institutions that make democracy work. Action and vigilance are more productive than faith.
  #66  
Old 07-14-2018, 05:11 PM
Guinastasia Guinastasia is offline
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Am I ashamed of my country? No. PARTS of it? Yes. Over all, no. Trump is an embarassment, but we've been through worse, we'll survive.

(And as for Nixon, the guy was a paranoid narcissist. He was just smarter, sneakier and had more experience than Trump. Don't kid yourselves that he was merely a "flawed man". This is the dude who said, "If the president does it, it is not illegal." He was also a serious racist and an anti-semite to boot.)

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I love these British white folk.
While Churchill was indeed a great leader, he was quite the racist himself. Not to mention a major imperialist. Mind you, he was a product of his time, but don't pretend Churchill was this raging progressive.

And while I won't deny that Britain is right about Trump, they aren't any better. They have just as many skeletons in their closet as we do.
  #67  
Old 07-14-2018, 07:28 PM
Warm blood Warm blood is offline
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And the fact that over 60% of our people disapprove of him speaks to our goodness as a nation.
Meaning that at least a third of your population think heís doing a fine job. Thatís a disturbingly high amount of supporters for a disturbingly bad president.

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Originally Posted by Kennedy1960 View Post
His supporters are mainly old people, and all due respect to the elderly, but when they die, a lot of the poison will die with them. Give it ten, twenty years and you'll see a very different GOP. Demographics are changing. Hispanics, and Hispanic/White mixes will make up the new majority. Millenials and Gen Z are projected to be more left wing in both parties. Hispanics aren't going to mistreat Mexicans, nor will they mistreat Whites or Blacks as most Hispanics have a bit of both in them. As such, racism will fade. Trump is not so much a symptom as he is the last, desperate gasp of older WASP people afraid of the future, who want to destroy the country and drink Liberal tears rather than accept the fact that they're losing, that they're dying out, that people are done with Evangelical Christianity and homophobia. They realize they lost the culture wars, and like children having a fit, they'd prefer to burn down this country than accept defeat.

My only wish is that the next generation was more Liberal and less Socialistic. But that's neither here nor there.

You seriously believe bigotry is the sole province of the Boomers? Do you have any idea how many generations before you have espoused that same idea, that when old people die out, so will their ideas? This is a stunningly naive and ahistorical take. Bigots raise children and pass down their bigoted beliefs to them. Some will reject their parents' teachings and become champions of the progressive causes their elders warned them about, but many more will simply carry on their ancestors' hateful legacy. Millennial white men by and large still lean conservative: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.dd900186068c

White supremacy doesnít have an age or generational limit, unfortunately.
  #68  
Old 07-14-2018, 08:07 PM
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To the OP.

Why do you even ask?

What do you hope to read?

Yeah, maybe some college students are going around ranting how they hate being americans but for the most part Americans are still proud of their country and most things about it. If this country was truly the shit hole some think it is we wouldnt be having to build walls to keep people out. We'd be building walls to keep people in.

So would you prefer to live in China? How about Russia?
  #69  
Old Yesterday, 12:34 AM
The Tooth The Tooth is offline
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Why don't you "love it or leave it types" ever mention countries like Canada or Germany or Holland or Norway or something? It's always Russia or China with you guys.
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  #70  
Old Yesterday, 02:23 AM
AK84 AK84 is online now
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To
So would you prefer to live in China? How about Russia?
The Chinese have pulled nearly a billion people out of abject poverty in the last 3 decades and are now the center of world trade and finance.

Dude, you can love your own country and be proud of her, without shitting on others. You do know that?
  #71  
Old Yesterday, 03:15 AM
Jonathan Chance Jonathan Chance is online now
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Alright, so you're basically trolling. Understood.
Kennedy, irs against the rules here to accuse another poster of trolling. If you must do so please do it in the BBQ Pit.

This is an official warning. Please donít do so again.
  #72  
Old Yesterday, 04:24 AM
Mijin Mijin is online now
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IMO either only those who voted for (or defend) Trump should be ashamed, or all humans should be. I don't understand apportioning blame by birth location.

And, as much as I want to lean towards the former, psychologically-speaking I do feel a little ashamed actually, despite being a Brit living in China. I belong to a species capable of hella dumb.
  #73  
Old Yesterday, 05:18 AM
Hiker Hiker is offline
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To the OP.

Why do you even ask?

What do you hope to read?

Yeah, maybe some college students are going around ranting how they hate being americans but for the most part Americans are still proud of their country and most things about it. If this country was truly the shit hole some think it is we wouldnt be having to build walls to keep people out. We'd be building walls to keep people in.

So would you prefer to live in China? How about Russia?
Your post would be more to the point if the OP had asked "Are you glad to be an American?". People in America still do - on average - enjoy more freedom and wealth than people in most other parts of the world. That is the reason why many want to come to your country, and it would be a valid reason to be glad to already be there. But is it also a reason to be proud? To me that sounds like someone being proud of the fortune he entirely inherited from daddy.
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  #74  
Old Yesterday, 06:10 AM
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If this country was truly the shit hole some think it is we wouldnt be having to build walls to keep people out.
You don't have to build walls to keep people out. You want to, there is a difference, hence the shithole.
  #75  
Old Yesterday, 06:56 AM
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Iím ashamed. Our country is evil. I canít even try to defend it anymore.
Evil? No, we're not an evil country.

Currently, we made a huge mistake that we'll have to correct in 2020. There is a problem in the Republican party that we'll have to work through, and overcome somehow.

But we're not evil. Nazi Germany was evil, as was Stalinist Russia, and China under Mao. I think we're still fundamentally a good country that is working through some issues.
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  #76  
Old Yesterday, 10:10 AM
MyFootsZZZ MyFootsZZZ is offline
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To the OP.

Why do you even ask?

What do you hope to read?

Yeah, maybe some college students are going around ranting how they hate being americans but for the most part Americans are still proud of their country and most things about it. If this country was truly the shit hole some think it is we wouldnt be having to build walls to keep people out. We'd be building walls to keep people in.

So would you prefer to live in China? How about Russia?
I'm very comfortable here in the US, but I'm a white male. With only a high school education and poor at the moment... but I'm safe and have a roof over my head. I can talk to you fine folks with my wi-fi and play my Nintendo afterwards.

What The Tooth said about America hurts me almost, (because their perspective seems valid). I'm a social democrat, (I think that's the technical term,) and it frightened me to read that our youth's boys are swinging more conservative. I went to Bernie rallies and saw all types of people there.

I think, as a white male, they feel threatened. I mean, especially since YouTube is probably more popular than TV these days; You get a lot of content creators cherry picking crazy people on the left, usually on college campuses, saying things that are a little extreme. And their egos think that every leftist is wrapped up in hating white males because they were born that way...

I actually asked because of privilege. I THINK I was born innocent, but the society I grew up in gave me privilege. I guess we need to change that.
  #77  
Old Yesterday, 10:18 AM
MyFootsZZZ MyFootsZZZ is offline
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Ugh...

What I just posted was a rough draft of my thoughts... I was going to build, add and possibly cut some of it. I posted it by mistake.

I asked because this is Straight Dope, and I don't want people to sugar-coat the answer. I also would love to hear how we can make ourselves better. Finding a way of making our own energy would be helpful.
  #78  
Old Yesterday, 10:53 AM
JB99 JB99 is offline
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Evil? No, we're not an evil country.

Currently, we made a huge mistake that we'll have to correct in 2020. There is a problem in the Republican party that we'll have to work through, and overcome somehow.

But we're not evil. Nazi Germany was evil, as was Stalinist Russia, and China under Mao. I think we're still fundamentally a good country that is working through some issues.

61 million Americans heard this:

Quote:
Yeah, that’s her. With the gold. I better use some Tic Tacs just in case I start kissing her. You know, I’m automatically attracted to beautiful — I just start kissing them. It’s like a magnet. Just kiss. I don’t even wait. And when you’re a star, they let you do it. You can do anything... Grab ’em by the pussy. You can do anything.


And said, "Yes, this is the man I want leading our country."

Last edited by JB99; Yesterday at 10:56 AM.
  #79  
Old Yesterday, 10:55 AM
The Tooth The Tooth is offline
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You do them too much credit assuming they know about historical events other than the Northern War of Aggression.
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  #80  
Old Yesterday, 02:47 PM
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Originally Posted by MyFootsZZZ View Post
We're in bed with some sketchy people, we're spying on our own citizens, and... Trump and his backers.

Anyone not particularly proud to be an American? Anyone ashamed? How long have you felt that way?
Speak for yourself. Unless you are a Democrat. In which case, you are forgiven. Still, it is a shame, if not shameful.
  #81  
Old Yesterday, 02:52 PM
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https://www.ihatethemedia.com/obama-...ngland-an-ipod
  #82  
Old Yesterday, 02:55 PM
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I like your husband. But EU Liberal seem just as violent as ours. And, you will have no way to protect yourselves! Best to be the "quiet" American when abroad. MAGA
  #83  
Old Yesterday, 03:14 PM
Parkerized Parkerized is offline
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http://newsfeed.time.com/2012/09/27/...ed-country-is/
  #84  
Old Yesterday, 03:22 PM
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https://www.washingtontimes.com/news...e-point-presi/
  #85  
Old Yesterday, 03:25 PM
Parkerized Parkerized is offline
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You mean Hillary, Strzok and Comey?
  #86  
Old Yesterday, 03:28 PM
Parkerized Parkerized is offline
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Socialist/Liberal. How many can distinguish between them. As for the old Conservatives dying off. I think of Hillary, Pelosi, Schumer. Duplicitous handringers of the "people" will be gone too. Racism is an obsolete word. Dead from overuse.
  #87  
Old Yesterday, 03:35 PM
Parkerized Parkerized is offline
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Mature adults, men and women of all colors "lean conservative". Regardless of how they vote.

https://theconversation.com/hard-evi...with-age-47910
  #88  
Old Yesterday, 03:41 PM
Parkerized Parkerized is offline
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"No. We just can't trust the American people to make those types of choices ... Government has to make those choices for people." – Hillary Clinton

Hillary definately is better qualified...

Or even Bill..."I did not have sexual relations with that woman."

If sexual deviation is the standard for political office.

You either a Liberal or you aren't. Only a Democrat can use one standard and two meanings.
  #89  
Old Yesterday, 03:46 PM
k9bfriender k9bfriender is offline
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Originally Posted by puddleglum View Post
This is like being ashamed of your wife because she got a bad haircut. The US has done so much for the world and humanity in general that it is crazy to be ashamed of the country because of a bad person is president. We have had worse presidents and yet managed to still be a force for good in the world.
It would be more like being ashamed of your wife because she wasn't the one that you proposed to, but she was the one the electoral college made you marry.

Then, even before you have had a chance to carry her across the threshold, she is out on your lawn with a megaphone yelling racial epithets at your neighbors, and even at a few of your children.
  #90  
Old Yesterday, 06:53 PM
tomndebb tomndebb is offline
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Moderating

Parkerized, this is a debate forum, not a fling-shit-at-the-wall rant forum.

Posting multiple one-liners is not a debate. If you need to rant, take it to The BBQ Pit.

[ /Moderating ]
  #91  
Old Yesterday, 06:55 PM
tomndebb tomndebb is offline
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That said, this thread seems to be more suited to IMHO than to Great Debates.
The thread is being moved, (although the instructions to Parkerized apply equally in IMHO).
  #92  
Old Yesterday, 07:51 PM
DigitalC DigitalC is offline
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It's just as dumb as being proud of it.
  #93  
Old Yesterday, 07:53 PM
Siam Sam Siam Sam is offline
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Ashamed of many of my fellow Americans including some Board members here, but no, certainly not ashamed to be an American.
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Everything happens for a reason. But sometimes the reason is you are stupid and make bad decisions.

Last edited by Siam Sam; Yesterday at 07:53 PM.
  #94  
Old Yesterday, 09:08 PM
Der Trihs Der Trihs is online now
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I haven't been proud to be an American since I was a kid. And I haven't felt that I was really an American for decades now, except in the purely geographic sense. I'm just somebody who happens to live here, surrounded by a nation that hates me and will always hate me.
  #95  
Old Yesterday, 09:56 PM
betterlifethroughchemistry betterlifethroughchemistry is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightnin' View Post
In about two weeks, I'm going to Europe. It's my first trip across the ocean, and it's something I've wanted to do all my life.

I really wish I'd done it back when Obama was President. I'm not really looking forward to being an American over there, right now.
I traveled extensively for business while Reagan, Bush 41, Clinton, Bush 43 and Obama were POTUS, and have taken several trips while Trump has been in office, to include Canada, China, Japan, Taiwan, England, Spain, France, Switzerland, Mexico and Germany...I've found the VAST majority of people don't judge you for your nationality, but how you treat them, be nice, they're pretty much willing to be nice to you...if politics come up, just be honest, explain your feelings, it's fine...

I'm amazed that people feel like they have targets on their backs when they travel internationally, most people you'll encounter don't care...the worst things I've had happen to me are to be called 'gringo' (which can be bad) in Mexico and 'gweilo' in Hong Kong and, 'laowei' in China...it was at times derogatory, but mostly observational, and it's fine, so, you are American, so what, the vast majority of people you will encounter are intelligent enough to understand you are a person and not a representative of the Trump administration...

Last year, my 84-year old mother went on a three-week trip throughout China, I first traveled to China in 1985, she kept saying, "I guess I'll eat rice for three weeks, I'm too worried to eat anything", I kept telling her, "Mom, the food is awesome, it's fresh, it's diverse, it's not mall food court Chinese", she'd say, "I just don't know"...she came back, I asked, "How was the food?", she said, "It was fantastic", I said, "Yup..."

Don't worry about it, don't project your concerns upon people who just want to be treated the same as you do, being a private citizen is fine, the worst that will happen is someone will say something about you (or America) in their native language, and if you don't speak it, so what? The more common and better thing is conversing with people of other cultures and getting an understanding of each of your lives, that is the cooler and far more meaningful thing that can happen...

Some of the really fun things that have happened to me was to bar hop with a couple of Aussies in Shanghai, my boss and I being dragged into a wedding party in Frankfurt, black market shopping in Stanley Bay, impromptu tours of southern England with people I met at the BnB I was staying in, getting dragged into an Irish foursome to play golf in Wales, just too many to list...be open minded, people are generally nice...
  #96  
Old Yesterday, 10:33 PM
betterlifethroughchemistry betterlifethroughchemistry is offline
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I know the majority of the SDMB membership leans to the left, and at the risk of being pitted (which I don't care about), I find the OP's question to be a bit superfluous...it's a First World question, we live in a time and place where I would have believe the vast majority of the members of the SDMB have cell phones, cars, internet access, all the trappings of a modern world, they are not worried about where their next meal comes from, and GENERALLY (OK, this one might be an issue) have access to decent medical care...the point is, we have the time and place to entertain such a question because others before us have sacrificed to create this nation...

Is it perfect? No, of course not...Does it have a tainted past? Absolutely...Is it the place that others outside of this country aspire to live in - yes, absolutely...America still offers the life, liberty and pursuit of happiness other nations do not...

I'm am proud of America as my great-great Grandfather came over from Scotland in 1859 at the age of 14, and not being able to find a job (the Scottish got lumped in the Irish bucket, i.e., "Irish Need Not Apply"), joined the 95th PA Infantry in 1861, was shot through the neck at Spotsylvania, recovered in two months and finally mustered out in July 1865 in DC...

I'm proud because my grandfather flew combat missions in the South Pacific in WWII...I'm proud because my father flew four years in the USAF and 27 years in the MDANG...I'm proud that my oldest son serves as a 35G in the US Army...all of which they have done as volunteers to help protect and serve our country...

I'm proud of this country because we offer excellent opportunity, that we've survived bad presidents, that administrations come and go, but the resolve to keep America the freest nation in the world continues...why else would people want to come here and not stay in their country?

In my lifetime, we've survived Johnson (who ramped up Vietnam), Nixon (Watergate, et al) Reagan, (which many of my undergrad friends were CONVINCED would cause WWIII), Carter, Bush 41, Clinton, Bush 43, Obama, and you know what? We'll survive Trump...stop it...look around...we're OK...
  #97  
Old Yesterday, 11:43 PM
betterlifethroughchemistry betterlifethroughchemistry is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Der Trihs View Post
I haven't been proud to be an American since I was a kid. And I haven't felt that I was really an American for decades now, except in the purely geographic sense. I'm just somebody who happens to live here, surrounded by a nation that hates me and will always hate me.
Please expand upon that statement. As someone who does feel proud to be an American, it really upsets me to see you feel that way...'surrounded by a nation that hates me and will always hate me' is a really powerful thing to say and I would hope we could discuss this further to understand your feelings...

I worked 10 years in an area of Baltimore which was predominately black...I had graduated from undergrad and was working on a grad degree...so I landed at a company that was all black as far as the workforce, but owned by a white guy...I got along great with everyone - the guys were great, I got to be good friends with the foreman, they teased me about being the 'white guy', yes, they called me, 'honkey' at times in jest...

But there were times when I was driving through the area to go home where I was verbally attacked, "What the fuck you doing here, white boy??", The the women were the worst, banging on my car window, "Get the fuck out of here!!"

I would tell the guys my experiences, they laughed, they felt bad, but they also would say, "Sorry, get used to it..."

It always upset me, I was raised by very rational parents to never be racist, so I had no understanding how to respond when I was attacked racially, I just looked forward and hit the gas when the light changed...

I am sure nobody on the SDMB can understand or believe me, but it did happen...

Our company was a little specialty chemical company, one evening, I had flown on a Friday evening, I needed to return the instrumentation I had brought on the trip, I was was pulled over by some Baltimore PD officers, they searched my car, they only let me go when I convinced them I was clean as they thought the only reason a white boy would be in that area was to get drugs or a prostitute...
  #98  
Old Today, 12:48 AM
Tim R. Mortiss Tim R. Mortiss is offline
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My government is not my country. They are two very different things.

I was proud to be an American when Obama was president, even though I loathed Obama and all he stood for.

I'm proud to be an American now that Trump is president, and even though I support Trump, it has nothing to do with him. I love my country, it's principles, its Constitution, its philosophy, and its dedication to freedom. I don't agree with Trump; he agrees with me.

God bless the USA.
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