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Old 06-09-2019, 12:26 PM
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The Metric system is the tool of the devil!


The global tyranny of the metric system rears its head on Tucker Carlson tonight.
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Old 06-09-2019, 12:32 PM
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Ignorance knows no bounds.
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Old 06-09-2019, 03:37 PM
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Ignorance knows no bounds.
We certainly couldn't measure the bounds with no metric system, that's for damn sure.
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Old 06-09-2019, 02:32 PM
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Will all Tucker's viewers immediately ditch their 9mm handguns for a good American .45cal? Tune in tonight!
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Old 06-09-2019, 03:09 PM
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Is it a requirement to watch the entire video to participate in this thread? I tried, I really did, twice. I just couldn't take it though and never made it further than "new world orders" before I had to shut off the clip.

QuickSilver summed it up nicely
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Old 06-09-2019, 04:40 PM
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Is it a requirement to watch the entire video to participate in this thread? I tried, I really did, twice. I just couldn't take it though and never made it further than "new world orders" before I had to shut off the clip.
You should have stuck it out a little longer - to the bit where the interviewee appears to claim that America put men on the moon without interference from the metric system. Part of me hopes that's true.

Here's a little something that may amuse you, if you haven't seen it before - the US's resistance to the metric system has some odd effects. Some animal health products are sold as high concentration premixes for addition to animal feed (hey - ever tried to get a pig to take a tablet?). OK, so how do you get around dosing in grams when you're talking to a farmer?

Simple. Like this.

Quote:
Active Drug Ingredient Tylosin (as tylosin phosphate) . . . 100 g per lb
Makes designing a rocket in foot-poundals seem logical.

j
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Old 06-09-2019, 04:44 PM
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Old 06-09-2019, 06:26 PM
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You should have stuck it out a little longer - to the bit where the interviewee appears to claim that America put men on the moon without interference from the metric system. Part of me hopes that's true.
This Reddit post suggests that NASA used both metric and Imperial units in the Apollo program; scientific data, in particular, apparently was more likely to use metric.

The Reddit post contains a link to another article, written by an engineer who worked on the Lunar Module Guidance Computer; he states:

Quote:
With respect to units, the LGC was eclectic. Inside the computer we used metric units, at least in the case of powered-flight navigation and guidance. At the operational level NASA, and especially the astronauts, preferred English units. This meant that before being displayed, altitude and altitude-rate (for example) were calculated from the metric state vector maintained by navigation, and then were converted to feet and ft/sec.
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Old 06-10-2019, 06:50 AM
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This Reddit post suggests that NASA used both metric and Imperial units in the Apollo program; scientific data, in particular, apparently was more likely to use metric.

The Reddit post contains a link to another article, written by an engineer who worked on the Lunar Module Guidance Computer; he states:
Thanks for that, Kenobi, those links were fascinating. I now have a mental picture of that old Nazi Werner von Braun, having been hustled back to the USA after the war, being brought before military officials to be "deprogrammed" - not of Nazism, but of SI units. Jesus.

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Old 06-09-2019, 09:54 PM
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Here's a little something that may amuse you, if you haven't seen it before - the US's resistance to the metric system has some odd effects. Some animal health products are sold as high concentration premixes for addition to animal feed (hey - ever tried to get a pig to take a tablet?). OK, so how do you get around dosing in grams when you're talking to a farmer?

Simple. Like this.
Sadly, I've encountered it before, in the form of an American lab manager who claimed that "everybody measures density in kilograms per quart!" The out-of-the-US factories had previously used either kg/l or specific gravity (identical numbers, different units); we'd all moved to specific gravity as part of a company-wide project (a tiny, tiny, tiny part of it).

There was a moment of silence while we processed the horror of that American unit. Then the one Englishman present said "excuse me, I would like to take this response" and the rest of us agreed. It's a pity it was before telephone cameras, because damn that was one of the most beautiful rants I've ever witnessed.


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Doesn't the U.S. military use the metric system, what with "klicks" and shit? Does Tucker Carlson not Support the Troops?
I thought shit was customarily measured in bovine units.
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Last edited by Nava; 06-09-2019 at 09:57 PM.
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Old 06-09-2019, 10:46 PM
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I work for a supplier to the automotive oems, we use SI exclusively. But it never fails, anytime I hire a contractor They tell me the old saying theres only 2 types of countries, those that have been to the moon, and those that use the metric system. Its usually just meant as a funny down home trope (is trope correct?) but evidently Tucker Carlson wants to use it as a serious talking point to keep dipshits voting for idiots.
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Old 06-10-2019, 08:14 AM
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Sadly, I've encountered it before, in the form of an American lab manager who claimed that "everybody measures density in kilograms per quart!" The out-of-the-US factories had previously used either kg/l or specific gravity (identical numbers, different units); we'd all moved to specific gravity as part of a company-wide project (a tiny, tiny, tiny part of it).

There was a moment of silence while we processed the horror of that American unit. Then the one Englishman present said "excuse me, I would like to take this response" and the rest of us agreed. It's a pity it was before telephone cameras, because damn that was one of the most beautiful rants I've ever witnessed.
I have to ask: did your English colleague address the additional layer of complication caused by the fact that a US quart is not the same as an Imperial quart?

(In the days before you could instantly resolve such questions by googling them on your phone, I once had an absurd cyclical argument with a US friend about gallons which were not the same as gallons because the pints they were made up of were not the same as pints because....)

j
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Old 06-10-2019, 11:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Treppenwitz View Post
Here's a little something that may amuse you, if you haven't seen it before - the US's resistance to the metric system has some odd effects. Some animal health products are sold as high concentration premixes for addition to animal feed (hey - ever tried to get a pig to take a tablet?). OK, so how do you get around dosing in grams when you're talking to a farmer?

Simple. Like this.



Makes designing a rocket in foot-poundals seem logical.

j
I don't know about animal health products, but you get a somewhat similar thing with children's medicines, too. Dosing is given in metric (mL), based on weight in US customary units. It actually never occurred to me that it's odd to mix units like that, because I'm used to medicines being dispensed in metric weight and volume units, but most people only know their weights in US customary units. I'm all for standardizing in metric, but it really isn't that hard to reconcile the two in situations like these.

Last edited by pulykamell; 06-10-2019 at 11:14 AM.
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Old 06-10-2019, 11:53 AM
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I don't know about animal health products, but you get a somewhat similar thing with children's medicines, too. Dosing is given in metric (mL), based on weight in US customary units. It actually never occurred to me that it's odd to mix units like that, because I'm used to medicines being dispensed in metric weight and volume units, but most people only know their weights in US customary units. I'm all for standardizing in metric, but it really isn't that hard to reconcile the two in situations like these.
I take your point, but the two situations are not quite the same. Measuring a child in pounds and then dosing is mL based on the weight is one thing*; actually making a medicine and expressing the strength in grams per pound - to make to a final concentration of grams per gallon or ton - is that not weird? A medicine - one of those high tech, highly regulated things?

Anyways, if that doesn't do it for you, Nava's stories should.

j

* - and you created a moment of self doubt for me as to whether in Britain, with one foot still entrenched in Imperial, we do the same; but seemingly not, eg: https://www.medicines.org.uk/emc/pro.../smpc#POSOLOGY
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Old 06-13-2019, 04:00 AM
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Dosing them pigs


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Originally Posted by Treppenwitz View Post
Here's a little something that may amuse you, if you haven't seen it before - the US's resistance to the metric system has some odd effects. Some animal health products are sold as high concentration premixes for addition to animal feed (hey - ever tried to get a pig to take a tablet?). OK, so how do you get around dosing in grams when you're talking to a farmer?

Simple. Like this.j
There are going to be some very unhappy pigs out there. Whoever did the conversions got it seriously wrong.

Having grown up with Imperial measures and converted to metric, I can say that I am happy with both, but calculations in metric are way easier due to the decimal scaling. On the other hand, feet and inches are more intuitive at a more rural level of technology, and you always have the measuring devices to hand.
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Old 06-13-2019, 04:32 AM
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There are going to be some very unhappy pigs out there. Whoever did the conversions got it seriously wrong.

Having grown up with Imperial measures and converted to metric, I can say that I am happy with both, but calculations in metric are way easier due to the decimal scaling. On the other hand, feet and inches are more intuitive at a more rural level of technology, and you always have the measuring devices to hand.
Which conversion is wrong? I assume Tylan 100 really does contain "Tylosin (as tylosin phosphate) . . . 100 g per lb."

Contrary to a view expressed several months ago in another metric thread, the decimal metric system is clearly best because the entire world now uses decimal arithmetic. If we'd adopted duodecimal arithmetic, we'd want a duodecimal metric system.

It seems too late to change now, but one might wonder what the optimal arithmetic base for humans might be. In addition to base 10, bases 20 and 60 have also been tried. There have been hybrids: the Harrapans used both base 2 and base 10, IIRC; and the English, almost up until modern times, used "hundred" to mean either 100 or 120 depending on what product was being counted!

Anything much less than 10 would be unwieldy, as would — since it is very convenient to use and memorize separate symbols for the digits — anything more than 12 or 16. 12 has obvious advantages over 10, but humans have ten fingers. Ergo base-10 is best.

Last edited by septimus; 06-13-2019 at 04:34 AM.
  #17  
Old 06-09-2019, 03:15 PM
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Will all Tucker's viewers immediately ditch their 9mm handguns for a good American .45cal? Tune in tonight!
No, a .357.

See how hard the metric system is?
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Old 06-10-2019, 02:26 PM
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No, a .357.

See how hard the metric system is?
It's always struck me as really weird that people would make bullets with a three fifty-sevenths of an inch diameter cross-section. Also not that pragmatic.

No, I don't own any firearms. Why do you ask?

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Old 06-09-2019, 03:19 PM
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Generally, I find that YouTube comments are some of the most moronic on the web, but the comments on that video are spot-on.
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Old 06-10-2019, 09:15 AM
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Generally, I find that YouTube comments are some of the most moronic on the web, but the comments on that video are spot-on.
The video is from Buffy Browncoat, not from FoxNews.

Their big argument for "customary" units is that a third of a foot is 4 inches nice and simple. I think a reason that anti-Metricism hasn't caught on among FoxPotatoes is that many of them couldn't correctly answer "How many inches in a third of a foot?" anyway.
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Old 06-10-2019, 06:23 PM
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Their big argument for "customary" units is that a third of a foot is 4 inches nice and simple. I think a reason that anti-Metricism hasn't caught on among FoxPotatoes is that many of them couldn't correctly answer "How many inches in a third of a foot?" anyway.
The only reason a FoxPotato knows what a third of a foot is is that that's how long his dick is.
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Old 06-10-2019, 06:34 PM
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The only reason a FoxPotato knows what a third of a foot is is that that's how long his dick is.
Wait till he finds out that's a 10 in metric.

Last edited by running coach; 06-10-2019 at 06:35 PM.
  #23  
Old 06-10-2019, 10:05 PM
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I worked on an archaeological dig once. The director wanted to use feet and inches for measurement. I urged that he switch to metric. His compromise was to excavate levels in tenths of feet!

I remember in drafting class, I had to use a nifty ruler with six scales on it, an engineer's scale. One of the scales is marked in tenths of an inch. The link shows you the other divisions.

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Sadly, I've encountered it before, in the form of an American lab manager who claimed that "everybody measures density in kilograms per quart!" The out-of-the-US factories had previously used either kg/l or specific gravity (identical numbers, different units); we'd all moved to specific gravity as part of a company-wide project (a tiny, tiny, tiny part of it).

There was a moment of silence while we processed the horror of that American unit. Then the one Englishman present said "excuse me, I would like to take this response" and the rest of us agreed. It's a pity it was before telephone cameras, because damn that was one of the most beautiful rants I've ever witnessed.

You wouldn't perhaps be able to summarize it here, would you?


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I thought shit was customarily measured in bovine units.

Bovine units would be an indicator of quality, not quantity.

Last edited by Monty; 06-10-2019 at 10:09 PM.
  #24  
Old 06-11-2019, 11:17 AM
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Their big argument for "customary" units is that a third of a foot is 4 inches — nice and simple.
Yes, I can't even count the number of times every day when I need to divide a foot into three parts and thank God that it comes out to a nice even number of inches. Just think of how often that happens in your life.

Also, it's so great that I only need to divide a foot into thirds and never have to do that with quarts or pints or pounds or tons or acres.

But don't even get me started on how often I need to divide a meter into fifths. Good thing I never need to do that with a foot.

Last edited by markn+; 06-11-2019 at 11:20 AM.
  #25  
Old Yesterday, 11:51 PM
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Generally, I find that YouTube comments are some of the most moronic on the web, but the comments on that video are spot-on.
I actually did wonder if the comments were correct when pointing out that the video was showing 2 liter Coke bottles while his guest was talking about how proud he was that the US stands alone against the world for still using the imperial system... it did! That is weaponized stupidity.

Does that mean that the Coca Cola execs are traitors?*





* Or at least supporters of mickeys , check the end of that 80's 3 liter Coke bottle ad for a now unfortunate cameo..
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Old 06-09-2019, 06:02 PM
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Some gems:
  • Tucker correctly pronouncing Buenos Aires, Lusaka, Esperanto, and Criterion but faking ignorance of Kilometer.
  • Guest calling himself an "anti-Metrite"
  • A surprising focus on French revolutionary history
  • Terms like "ancient knowledge" and "global tyranny"
  • Tucker briefly contemplating replacing the Dollar for the Euro

Last edited by orcenio; 06-09-2019 at 06:04 PM.
  #27  
Old 06-10-2019, 09:43 AM
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Some gems:
  • Tucker correctly pronouncing Buenos Aires, Lusaka, Esperanto, and Criterion but faking ignorance of Kilometer.
He even threw in a gratuitous reference to Robespierre (which he also pronounced correctly).

Last edited by Snowboarder Bo; 06-10-2019 at 09:43 AM.
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Old 06-10-2019, 02:37 PM
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He even threw in a gratuitous reference to Robespierre (which he also pronounced correctly).
But the closed captioning got it as "rogue spears"...
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Old 06-09-2019, 06:09 PM
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Doesn't the U.S. military use the metric system, what with "klicks" and shit? Does Tucker Carlson not Support the Troops?
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Old 06-09-2019, 08:07 PM
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This is hilarious. All automotive oems use the metric system now.
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Old 06-09-2019, 09:27 PM
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Doesn't the U.S. military use the metric system, what with "klicks" and shit? Does Tucker Carlson not Support the Troops?

When I was in Basic Combat Training, one Drill Sergeant constantly repeated "Keep three meters apart; keep three meters apart" when we were on cross-country marches. Oddly enough, he was from Mexico and what he thought was three meters was actually three feet.

And, yes, the US military does use SI. Of course there are some unusual terms in the US. For example, my unit conversion app does not have a measure termed shit, but it does have both assload (1 assload = 3 kg) and shit-ton (1 shit-ton = 4,000,000 pounds).
  #32  
Old 06-09-2019, 08:32 PM
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A mile is a thousand paces @ 5' each. I wonder if anyone has the legs for a 5' stride.
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Old 06-09-2019, 08:35 PM
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A mile is a thousand paces @ 5' each. I wonder if anyone has the legs for a 5' stride.
Romans counted a pace as two steps - the distance between where your right foot hits the ground to where your right foot next hits the ground.
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Old 06-10-2019, 09:25 AM
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A mile is a thousand paces @ 5' each. I wonder if anyone has the legs for a 5' stride.
Easy, if you're wearing your 7-league boots.
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Old 06-10-2019, 09:31 AM
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Easy, if you're wearing your 7-league boots.
Unfathomable.
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Old 06-10-2019, 11:42 AM
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A mile is a thousand paces @ 5' each. I wonder if anyone has the legs for a 5' stride.


My pace per chain is 14 which works out 4.7 feet but I measure mine on uneven terrain which is more realistic but probably shortens it a bit.
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Old 06-10-2019, 02:33 PM
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A mile is a thousand paces @ 5' each. I wonder if anyone has the legs for a 5' stride.
If you consider a stride to be from left footfall to the next left footfall (or right, if that's the way you roll), it seems a bit less implausible.

The fact that very few soldiers had identically-sized legs does complicate things a bit.
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Old 06-10-2019, 03:03 PM
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If you consider a stride to be from left footfall to the next left footfall (or right, if that's the way you roll), it seems a bit less implausible.

The fact that very few soldiers had identically-sized legs does complicate things a bit.
Wouldn't the parameters of formation movement have required them to train their soldiers to march with the same stride despite any differences in leg length?
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Old 06-10-2019, 11:07 PM
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Wouldn't the parameters of formation movement have required them to train their soldiers to march with the same stride despite any differences in leg length?
Not necessarily the exact same stride, specially if your roads are crappy, but close enough to make the sergeant happy; when the sergeant is unhappy, everybody is unhappy. And now I'm wondering if archeologists know any cadences from the Roman or Macedonian armies
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Old 06-11-2019, 01:33 AM
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The U.S. was a leader in the metricization of currency for its own sake! The original American standard was that a silver dollar had the average weight of worn-down Spanish pieces of eight reales, so the base unit was a reale, called a "bit" in the States, and worth 12 cents. However no one-bit coin was ever minted: the first coin minted by the U.S. Treasury was the silver half-disme; it took 2 half-dismes to make a bit. No wonder that when pries are quoted in bits, it's almost always an even number of bits.

The silver half-disme was a short-lived coin. Nickel mines wanted in on the action and named the replacement for the half-disme after themselves.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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Decimal inches are common in electronics.
Traditionally, IC pin spacing was in .1 or .05 inch increments.
Back in the Triassic Era, most of the ICs I worked with had two rows of 8 pins each with 0.1 inch spacing. However IIRC, IBM's MST-2 IC's had four rows of 4 pins (arranged in a square) with ⅛ inch spacing. IBM did everything differently from The.Rest.of.the.World. Allegedly this was to make it harder for IBM technicians and engineers to find work at other companies.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Thais are lovers, not fighters and have an ecumenical system for quoting the dimensions of wooden boards. Thickness is given in inches, width in centimeters, length in sok (the Traditional Thai measure).
  #41  
Old 06-12-2019, 04:49 AM
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And now I'm wondering if archeologists know any cadences from the Roman or Macedonian armies
This is more the realm of historians, not archaeologists. AFAIK, we only have the lyrics of one genuine Roman marching song, Urbani, recorded by Seutonius. But no tune:
Urbani, servate uxores, moechum calvum adducimus.
Aurum in gallia effutuisti, hic sumpsisti mutuum.
Gallias caesar subegit, nicomedes caesarem, ecce caesar nunc triumphat qui subegit gallias.
Nicomedes non triumphat, qui subegit caesarem.
Gallos caesar in triumphum ducit, idem in curiam, galli bracas deposuerunt, latum clavum sumperunt.
Rough Translation
Citizens, keep an eye on your wives, were bringing back the bald adulterer. Hes stashed away the gold in Gaul that you loaned him here in Rome.
Caesar vanquished the Gauls, Nicomedes Caesar, Caesar who vanquished the Gauls now triumphs. Nicomedes does not triumph, who vanquished Caesar.
Caesar leads the Gauls in triumph, likewise into the Senate House. The Gauls have laid aside their trousers and put on the broad purple stripe.
  #42  
Old 06-10-2019, 03:03 PM
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The fact that very few soldiers had identically-sized legs does complicate things a bit.
It seems like a soldier without identically sized legs wouldn't be very effective. I'm glad we've made that a requirement in modern armies.
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Old 06-10-2019, 03:33 PM
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If you consider a stride to be from left footfall to the next left footfall (or right, if that's the way you roll), it seems a bit less implausible.

The fact that very few soldiers had identically-sized legs does complicate things a bit.
For nighttime land navigation, we were taught to measure how many double strides (right foot to right foot), on average, it took us to advance 100 meters. The average for a male soldier was 60, I think, although I'm fairly long-legged myself, so I remember doing it in 57.

That makes a kilometer 600 double paces or so, which is fairly close to 1000 per mile. YMMV (literally), but the math checks out.
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Old 06-10-2019, 03:55 PM
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Tucker must not be aware that those revolutionary founding fathers imposed decimal currency on us, not those pounds, shillings and pence as was traditional. So Tucker is unAmerican, but we knew that.

Anyhow, all measurements should be based on cubits, as God intended, so Tucker must be an atheist too.

Communist atheists are infiltrating Fox News! Write the Trump to warn him!
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Old 06-12-2019, 06:41 AM
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Doesn't the U.S. military use the metric system, what with "klicks" and shit? Does Tucker Carlson not Support the Troops?
I hope no one tells him that US Army tanks have been sporting metric cannon since WWII.

Oh, wait --- they've sekritly been part of the NWO since then.
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Surely that is satire. No one is that dumb.
Oh, grasshopper...
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Originally Posted by Voyager View Post
Tucker must not be aware that those revolutionary founding fathers imposed decimal currency on us, not those pounds, shillings and pence as was traditional. So Tucker is unAmerican, but we knew that.
The founding fathers were so annoyed at Britain they not only would have adopted decimal currency but also the metric system, only it hadn't been invented yet.

Last edited by DesertDog; 06-12-2019 at 06:42 AM.
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Old 06-10-2019, 02:19 AM
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I worked on an archaeological dig once. The director wanted to use feet and inches for measurement. I urged that he switch to metric. His compromise was to excavate levels in tenths of feet!
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Old 06-10-2019, 05:45 AM
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I worked on an archaeological dig once. The director wanted to use feet and inches for measurement. I urged that he switch to metric. His compromise was to excavate levels in tenths of feet!
Am I correct to say Ford once used tenths of inches in its cars? I seem to recall you need special tools to work on some classic Ford cars.


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Old 06-10-2019, 08:22 PM
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Am I correct to say Ford once used tenths of inches in its cars? I seem to recall you need special tools to work on some classic Ford cars.
The Model A Ford had wood-on-leather bearings. Several of the tools used to work on classic Ford cars would look unusual to you. Others, like the adjustable wrench, would look usual to you, but looked odd to farmers at the time.

The bolts and nuts were mostly ordinary 1/8ths, 16ths, 32nds. I don't know how the dimensions of the car were measured: I'd guess feet, inches, fractions, as ordinary things were at the time. Later, car manufacturers moved to having /all/ dimensions in 1/1000s of an inch ('thou' or 'mil'). If Ford was using 'tenths', that would have been a tenth of a thou, about 2.5 μm, and that would have been a tolerance, not a dimension. Nothing on the model T would have been toleranced that accurately.

In Aus, dimensions moved to /all/ mm, due to manufacturing workers being unable to handle decimal fractions and metric conversions like mm/cm/m/km.
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Old 06-10-2019, 10:24 PM
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In Aus, dimensions moved to /all/ mm, due to manufacturing workers being unable to handle decimal fractions and metric conversions like mm/cm/m/km.

What? That's the actual beauty and key to the utility of the metric system, the incredibly simple conversion factor, IMHO. Here's a fun way to remember the order/value of the SI prefixes: make your own lyrics to the tune of [url=https://www.lyricsbox.com/royal-guardsmen-snoopy-vs.-the-red-baron-lyrics-xsxjrz8.html]Snoopy Vs. The Red Baron.
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Old 06-12-2019, 05:18 AM
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What? That's the actual beauty and key to the utility of the metric system, the incredibly simple conversion factor, IMHO.
Well if that's the beauty and key to the utility of the metric system, we might as well all go home, because people don't do metric conversions, and many if not most people can't really handle decimal fractions. Which is why car lengths are given in mm, as are any other manufacturing dimensions.

I've often wondered if, in French, metric conversions are effortless: if in French, a centimetre is a tenth of a metre instead of a learned value like 'inch', and if strangeness like "100 mm" disappears.

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Originally Posted by Hari Seldon View Post
And before the metric system became nearly general, every country had its own foot, and its own pound.
Actually, the empire had pretty much switched to "imperial" measures. And in any case, the major benefit of the metric system to France was that France, unlike England, had not already switched to a National system of measurement. France did not have its own foot, and its own pound: that was the problem.

Last edited by Melbourne; 06-12-2019 at 05:18 AM.
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