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  #101  
Old 06-12-2019, 09:27 AM
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667?
Gasp! The Neighbour of The Beast!
  #102  
Old 06-12-2019, 09:30 AM
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667?
The metric system is so evil, you round down!

I watched a bit: Is this supposed to be satire? Or are Tucker and guests really that stupid? I checked to make sure this clip didn't air on April 1, which is the only other explanation I could come up with.
  #103  
Old 06-12-2019, 10:10 AM
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The metric system is so evil, you round down!

I watched a bit: Is this supposed to be satire? Or are Tucker and guests really that stupid? I checked to make sure this clip didn't air on April 1, which is the only other explanation I could come up with.
Like with all of Tucker's work, its kayfabe acting. For example, Tucker isn't so dense as to not know how to pronounce kilogram ; but breaking performance by acknowledging the idiocy removes all the emotional impact (and primes the audience to think logically/dispassionate).

The last thing Tucker wants is for his audience to be rationally evaluating his ideas. Like a Pro-wrestling audience, he needs them to be emotionally invested and in a state of suspension of disbelief of absurdity.

Last edited by orcenio; 06-12-2019 at 10:14 AM.
  #104  
Old 06-12-2019, 10:12 AM
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Am I correct to say Ford once used tenths of inches in its cars? I seem to recall you need special tools to work on some classic Ford cars.


A Google brings up nothing much.
The measurement standard at a very large aerospace company, sounds something like 'flowing', is also decimal-inches.
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  #105  
Old 06-12-2019, 10:34 AM
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Is this supposed to be satire? Or are Tucker and guests really that stupid?
Not satire or stupidity (on Fox's part, anyway), just keeping the deplorably-ignorant base stirred up. The metric system is just another foreign thing the foreigners are trying to use to take over American culture.


The entire US aerospace industry is based on decimal inches, btw.
  #106  
Old 06-12-2019, 10:40 AM
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On Google news, they show your local weather over on the right. There's options for which temperature scale you want. I sometimes change it to Kelvin (the high today will be 308K). I guess that makes me a commie or something. Definitely un-American, anyway.
  #107  
Old 06-12-2019, 10:43 AM
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I'm going to start using "bits" instead of "cents" in determining amounts of money to protest the adoption of the metric system!
  #108  
Old 06-12-2019, 11:35 AM
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Not shillings and farthings?
  #109  
Old 06-12-2019, 11:45 AM
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Count your money in ha'pennys. Don't forget the exchange rate as well.
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  #110  
Old 06-12-2019, 01:49 PM
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All I'm saying is that a third of a kilometer is just a seemingly harmless 333 meters... But you know what TWO THIRDS make?
Yeah. Maybe coincidence, maybe not.
Is that anything like asking what three toucans make?
  #111  
Old 06-12-2019, 02:51 PM
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Gasp! The Neighbour of The Beast!
BTW, I missed this post since I was posting at nearly the same time. Thanks for the laugh. Even Eddie is laughing.
  #112  
Old 06-12-2019, 04:21 PM
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No: in French, a centimetre is a hundredth of a metre. Promise.

... so for example a facade that was known to be "100m" would become "10057mm" once measured.
Melbourne's slipping a decimal on 'cm' was probably just an editing oversight.
... As was yours with 'mm.'
  #113  
Old 06-12-2019, 06:02 PM
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Let me put it this way: this is one case where "country" does not equal "territory ruled by a specific government or top ruler". France did have its own foot, oh yeah: several of them. And its own pound: several of them. And its own yard: several of them! At the time, Spain was officially still two separate kingdoms, but the larger one also suffered from multiple units of measure with the smaller one also having their own units, helloooo, why would we make things easier for the neighbors? And the Italians, well, on one hand everybody knew where Italy was and on the other there were a ton of different realms and some had their own units and some did not and sometimes they called the unit by the name of another realm but there had been some changes yes, so the two units as used in the original realm and in others might not be quite the same size; the same applies to Germany or to the Low Countries...

The SI was not "a French thing": it was an international effort because it was trying to solve an international problem. For larger domains it could also be an internal problem, but it was a pain in the ass either way.
SI is not, of course, the French metric system on which it was based. And if you think that France had 'several' pound units, you misunderstand the scale of the problem.

Last edited by Melbourne; 06-12-2019 at 06:02 PM.
  #114  
Old 06-12-2019, 07:10 PM
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So, it's much easier to remember that centi- means hundredth- than it is for English speakers.
It should be pretty easy for English speakers, too, given "cents" and all in currency.
  #115  
Old 06-13-2019, 04:00 AM
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Dosing them pigs


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Here's a little something that may amuse you, if you haven't seen it before - the US's resistance to the metric system has some odd effects. Some animal health products are sold as high concentration premixes for addition to animal feed (hey - ever tried to get a pig to take a tablet?). OK, so how do you get around dosing in grams when you're talking to a farmer?

Simple. Like this.j
There are going to be some very unhappy pigs out there. Whoever did the conversions got it seriously wrong.

Having grown up with Imperial measures and converted to metric, I can say that I am happy with both, but calculations in metric are way easier due to the decimal scaling. On the other hand, feet and inches are more intuitive at a more rural level of technology, and you always have the measuring devices to hand.
  #116  
Old 06-13-2019, 04:02 AM
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Yer what?


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Originally Posted by ElvisL1ves View Post
Not satire or stupidity (on Fox's part, anyway), just keeping the deplorably-ignorant base stirred up. The metric system is just another foreign thing the foreigners are trying to use to take over American culture.


The entire US aerospace industry is based on decimal inches, btw.
What is a decimal inch?
  #117  
Old 06-13-2019, 04:22 AM
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What is a decimal inch?

Inches which are graduated in tenths, hundredths, etc.
  #118  
Old 06-13-2019, 04:32 AM
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There are going to be some very unhappy pigs out there. Whoever did the conversions got it seriously wrong.

Having grown up with Imperial measures and converted to metric, I can say that I am happy with both, but calculations in metric are way easier due to the decimal scaling. On the other hand, feet and inches are more intuitive at a more rural level of technology, and you always have the measuring devices to hand.
Which conversion is wrong? I assume Tylan 100 really does contain "Tylosin (as tylosin phosphate) . . . 100 g per lb."

Contrary to a view expressed several months ago in another metric thread, the decimal metric system is clearly best because the entire world now uses decimal arithmetic. If we'd adopted duodecimal arithmetic, we'd want a duodecimal metric system.

It seems too late to change now, but one might wonder what the optimal arithmetic base for humans might be. In addition to base 10, bases 20 and 60 have also been tried. There have been hybrids: the Harrapans used both base 2 and base 10, IIRC; and the English, almost up until modern times, used "hundred" to mean either 100 or 120 depending on what product was being counted!

Anything much less than 10 would be unwieldy, as would — since it is very convenient to use and memorize separate symbols for the digits — anything more than 12 or 16. 12 has obvious advantages over 10, but humans have ten fingers. Ergo base-10 is best.

Last edited by septimus; 06-13-2019 at 04:34 AM.
  #119  
Old 06-13-2019, 05:22 AM
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SI is not, of course, the French metric system on which it was based. And if you think that France had 'several' pound units, you misunderstand the scale of the problem.
They did. They only called it "pound" if they were speaking with those strange people across the Channel, but they did have multiple livres. And multiple other units of weight. And multiple many other things.
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  #120  
Old 06-13-2019, 06:51 AM
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Like a Pro-wrestling audience, he needs them to be emotionally invested and in a state of suspension of disbelief of absurdity.
I like that comparison. The "intentionally mispronouncing something to make it look silly" is exactly the sort of thing that, say, The Miz would do.
  #121  
Old 06-13-2019, 06:56 AM
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Except it's not, really. You know where the number 98.6 degrees comes from? That's not actually the average human body temperature. It was rounded to the nearest degree, because thermometers didn't used to be all that precise. The nearest Celsius degree, which was 37. And then we Americans converted "37 Celsius" to Fahrenheit.
Likewise, when an adjustment was made in converting inches to millimeters so there weren't so many damn numbers after the decimal, it was the inch that was jiggered.
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In 1930, the British Standards Institution adopted an inch of exactly 25.4 mm. The American Standards Association followed suit in 1933. By 1935, industry in 16 countries had adopted the "industrial inch" as it came to be known.
  #122  
Old 06-13-2019, 07:21 AM
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On the subject of different "pounds" it may be interesting to note that during the reign of King Henry VIII, 20 silver shillings made up one "pound" of money, but 60 silver shillings were actually minted from each troy pound of sterling silver. This was not due to any confusion about weights or measures, but because English authorities had found it convenient to gradually devalue their money.

By the death of Queen Elizabeth the Royal Mint was producing 62 shillings per pound.
  #123  
Old 06-13-2019, 10:47 AM
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Likewise, when an adjustment was made in converting inches to millimeters so there weren't so many damn numbers after the decimal, it was the inch that was jiggered.
Nitpick: There are actually TWO standard inches:
  • The International Inch, which is equal to 2.5400000 centimeters.
  • The Survey Inch, insisted on by Guess Who? the United States of America. One meter is equal to 39.370000 of these survey inches.

The Earth's equatorial circumference is something like 1577846357 international inches, if my arithmetic is correct, but 1577843201 American survey inches. The conversion error, exactly 2 parts per million, is enough that accurate or long-distance surveyers will need to be concerned.

Just as U.S.A. throws its weight around all banks all around the world are required to determine whether customers have green card, etc. and file required W-9 forms; countries are not allowed to buy Persian oil without U.S. permission; etc. that I'll bet surveyers all around the world are using the American Inch rather than good old 2.54000000.
  #124  
Old 06-13-2019, 12:30 PM
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How much error is there in measuring the circumference of the Earth, what with mountains and things?
  #125  
Old 06-13-2019, 01:11 PM
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Gasp! The Neighbour of The Beast!
Just across the street in fact, the Next Door Neighbours of The Beast live in 664 and 668.
  #126  
Old 06-13-2019, 04:44 PM
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How much error is there in measuring the circumference of the Earth, what with mountains and things?
I'm not sure what you're asking here. The Earth is not a perfect sphere anyway; it's an oblate spheroid. It bulges more at the equator due to centrifugal force from spinning.

As far as mountains go, if the Earth were reduced to the size of a billiard ball it would meet the international smoothness specification, all the way from Marianna's Trench to Mount Everest.

Last edited by Leaffan; 06-13-2019 at 04:45 PM.
  #127  
Old 06-13-2019, 06:00 PM
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I like that comparison. The "intentionally mispronouncing something to make it look silly" is exactly the sort of thing that, say, The Miz would do.
It's a Fox staple. Gretchen Carlson used to do it too; I recall a late show montage of her mispronouncing words often to show how home-spun she was, real salt-of-the-earth type, just like her viewers, don'cha know... but she was her class valedictorian, went to Stanford and studied at Oxford.

Last edited by Snowboarder Bo; 06-13-2019 at 06:02 PM.
  #128  
Old 06-13-2019, 06:33 PM
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Inches which are graduated in tenths, hundredths, etc.
Due to the embargo, people couldn't import American computers into the Soviet Union. So, if you wanted a good model, what could you do? Reverse-engineer and clone it, of course.

When doing this, the stories go, some manufacturers took an inch to be 2.5 cm (so pins would be placed 2.5 mm apart, etc.), because that's pretty close, right? This worked OK some of the time, but was the cause of some mysterious bugs when they started to increase the clock speed.
  #129  
Old 06-13-2019, 07:20 PM
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Due to the embargo, people couldn't import American computers into the Soviet Union. So, if you wanted a good model, what could you do? Reverse-engineer and clone it, of course.
Or steal one. I was introduced to someone who had worked in a secret lab in the Armenian SSR where they interfaced a stolen IBM 360 or 370 to modern peripherals (which they could buy.) They did this by adding microcode to the mainframe, and he used some of my papers to help do this job.

Back in the '70s and early '80s you'd get postcards from Eastern Europe asking for copies of papers, I guess because they were not allowed Xerox machines. I guess this was why microprogramming was so popular in Eastern Europe.
  #130  
Old 06-13-2019, 07:33 PM
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I'm not sure what you're asking here. The Earth is not a perfect sphere anyway; it's an oblate spheroid. It bulges more at the equator due to centrifugal force from spinning.

As far as mountains go, if the Earth were reduced to the size of a billiard ball it would meet the international smoothness specification, all the way from Marianna's Trench to Mount Everest.
I should think that comparing the diameter in inches vs centimeters would be meaningless.
  #131  
Old 06-13-2019, 08:26 PM
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I'm not sure what you're asking here. The Earth is not a perfect sphere anyway; it's an oblate spheroid. It bulges more at the equator due to centrifugal force from spinning.
I did not explain my question well; an oblate spheroid has an equator.
  #132  
Old 06-14-2019, 01:36 AM
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Except it's not, really. You know where the number 98.6 degrees comes from? That's not actually the average human body temperature. It was rounded to the nearest degree, because thermometers didn't used to be all that precise. The nearest Celsius degree, which was 37. And then we Americans converted "37 Celsius" to Fahrenheit.
I've personally heard a doctor telling to patient her temperature in Farenheit in a NY hospital. Maybe internally they use Celsius but I'm quite convinced that to patients they talk in Farenheits.
  #133  
Old 06-14-2019, 03:02 AM
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I've personally heard a doctor telling to patient her temperature in Farenheit in a NY hospital. Maybe internally they use Celsius but I'm quite convinced that to patients they talk in Farenheits.
At my old hospital we used centigrade, where I work now we use Fahrenheit.
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  #134  
Old 06-14-2019, 09:34 AM
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Or steal one. I was introduced to someone who had worked in a secret lab in the Armenian SSR where they interfaced a stolen IBM 360 or 370 to modern peripherals (which they could buy.) They did this by adding microcode to the mainframe, and he used some of my papers to help do this job.

Back in the '70s and early '80s you'd get postcards from Eastern Europe asking for copies of papers, I guess because they were not allowed Xerox machines. I guess this was why microprogramming was so popular in Eastern Europe.
James Burke -- the Connections guy -- used to show up in San Jose for PBS station KTEH's fundraisers; he loved Silicon Valley. He got his start as the BBC science reporter covering Apollo and later, Apollo-Soyuz flights. He told how he'd had a conversation with the head of the Soviet space program and he asked the guy technologically speaking, what did he fear most about the West. The answer was that if someone were to invent a computer that could fit on a desktop* so all engineers could have one, "With the West's huge talent pool and freedom of information access, I don't see how we could keep up."

That story was told in 1985, a few years before the USSR collapse.

*This was in 1975 when there were hobbyist computers like Altair but before the TRS-80, never mind PCs.
  #135  
Old 06-14-2019, 10:53 AM
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Back when I was in elementary school (late 70s, early 80s), there was a half-assed effort afoot to convert the US to the metric system. I remember, for example, highway signs telling me that St. Louis was both 100 miles and 161 kilometers away. Or my math textbook giving us word problems in kilograms.

The problem, however, is that these efforts at teaching Americans the metric system just resulted in confusion. By teaching Americans, for example, that a kilogram is 2.2 pounds, you're just giving him another layer of information to have to take in. A layer of information complicated by the fact that he already knows a perfectly reasonable way of measuring weights. So instead, those highway signs should have simply said that St. Louis was 161 kilometers away, and get used to thinking in kilometers.

Similarly, rather than teaching me that a kilogram was 2.2 pounds, my textbook should have left pounds out of the equation and simply compared a kilogram to something more relevant; a pair of shoes, for example, or a small watermelon, or something.

Long story short: if the US is going to go metric, over the objections of jingoistic proclamations of American exceptionalism and the system's origins in the anti-Jesus French Revolution, the government MUST go whole-hog, all at once, not gradually, and ditch the imperial system in the process. Put up highway signs (distances, speed limits) in kilometers, and kilometers ONLY. Car manufacturers will follow suit and start putting only metric on the speedometers. Then gas stations will start selling gas by the liter. And so on and so on.

Last edited by HeyHomie; 06-14-2019 at 10:54 AM.
  #136  
Old Yesterday, 11:16 PM
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Put up highway signs (distances, speed limits) in kilometers, and kilometers ONLY. Car manufacturers will follow suit and start putting only metric on the speedometers. Then gas stations will start selling gas by the liter. And so on and so on.
Canada, or Ontario at least, changed all its road signs over one weekend in September 1977. The signs were not replaced; they just put big stickers with new numbers over the existing numbers. There were also little tabs added to the edge of the existing signs that said "km" (for distance signs) or "km/h" (for speed signs) as appropriate, to let people know the sign had been changed.

Later, of course, new signs were made in metric and if necessary placed at appropriate metric distances, but AFAIK they didn't move existing ones. A sign that says "Main St. 500m ↗️" doesn't have to be exactly 500.000 metres from the exit

My father also got little stickers with km/h numbers to stick on the speedometer of his car. (The odometer remained in miles). Newer cars were in km and km/h, of course. For the longest time, Canadian speedometers had km/h prominent and mph as a supplement for crossing the border, but lately I've seen cars (mostly German ones) with km/h only. I'm not sure whether you can flip a switch and put it in mph, or what.

Even now, on back roads, you occasionally find an ancient maximum-speed sign with the sticker wearing thin, letting you see the old 35 (mph) number under the 50 (km/h). But the "km" tabs at the top of distance signs have long gone.

Gas stations and other retailers were mandated to switch to selling in litres (not sure just when). There were some old fossils who protested and set up a "freedom to measure" gas station to sell to you in whatever units you wanted, but that got shut down, because the legal measure had to be in litres. I am not sure why they just couldn't sell you 4.54 L of gasoline and continue to call it an imperial gallon...

It was a few years after this, in 1984, that the Conservative government of Brian Mulroney suspended metric conversion in Canada, and we have been Stuck Between ever since.
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  #137  
Old Yesterday, 11:51 PM
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Generally, I find that YouTube comments are some of the most moronic on the web, but the comments on that video are spot-on.
I actually did wonder if the comments were correct when pointing out that the video was showing 2 liter Coke bottles while his guest was talking about how proud he was that the US stands alone against the world for still using the imperial system... it did! That is weaponized stupidity.

Does that mean that the Coca Cola execs are traitors?*





* Or at least supporters of mickeys , check the end of that 80's 3 liter Coke bottle ad for a now unfortunate cameo..
  #138  
Old Today, 09:50 AM
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Gas stations and other retailers were mandated to switch to selling in litres (not sure just when).
I don't think that would fly in the US, on First Amendment grounds.* Which is why I think the government should start with things it can mandate (like highway signs) and let the private sector follow suit.

*I could very well be wrong though.
  #139  
Old Today, 03:52 PM
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I suspect that the US will be using metric and 'US customary' units mixed together for a long time. The US units aren't going away for a long time, and the metric units aren't ever going away - metric really is the simpler, superior system. Hey, if we can keep up with the English spelling mess, a little confusion with measurement units ain't gonna be much more of a big deal.

But little by little, the metric units will creep in. Automotive parts are mostly now in metric units and engine sizes are mostly (always?) now given in liters. No one bats an eye at buying shampoo in 500 ml bottles. As we get more world-wide news over the internet, we see news reported as mountain climbing accidents at 5,000 meter elevation, and similar things.

And maybe someday, we'll figure out that if electrical power can be measured in kilowatts, there's no good reason why mechanical power should be measured in horsepower. We'll hear a weather report given in Celsius and will fail to riot in the streets on that account. It will likely come, little by little.

But there ain't no way the British will give up on imperial pints of beer. Good on them.
  #140  
Old Today, 04:20 PM
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But there ain't no way the British will give up on imperial pints of beer. Good on them.
You think?

To be fair, you're probably right in re pubs.

j
  #141  
Old Today, 05:16 PM
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It's a Fox staple. Gretchen Carlson used to do it too; I recall a late show montage of her mispronouncing words often to show how home-spun she was, real salt-of-the-earth type, just like her viewers, don'cha know... but she was her class valedictorian, went to Stanford and studied at Oxford.
Fox also consistently mispronounces names of people. For example, Chavez gets changed to Shavez, and Beto is said Bayto. They have to be doing it on purpose.
  #142  
Old Today, 07:24 PM
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Originally Posted by california jobcase View Post
Fox also consistently mispronounces names of people. For example, Chavez gets changed to Shavez, and Beto is said Bayto. They have to be doing it on purpose.
I am not in the US and don't see Fox News, so I have only seen those names in print. How are they supposed to be pronounced?
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  #143  
Old Today, 08:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunspace View Post
I am not in the US and don't see Fox News, so I have only seen those names in print. How are they supposed to be pronounced?
My thoughts too.
  #144  
Old Today, 09:43 PM
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"Chavez" is supposed to be with a "ch" instead of a "sh" sound, but it's not unusual to hear it (mis)pronounced with a "ch" as if it were a French word.

"Beto" as "Bayto" should be more like "Betto," but English pronunciations of Spanish words often change the "e" sound to an "ay" sound (see: Jose, for example, which isn't really hoe-ZAY, but also not quite hoe-ZEH. Many Spanish speakers would say the latter is closer, but English speakers have a tendency to hear that vowel as an "ay," even though it's not a diphthong. If you say "ay" without the "y" ending, you've pretty much got the vowel.)

To me, it's a bit of nitpicking, but some people are particularly about it.

Last edited by pulykamell; Today at 09:44 PM.
  #145  
Old Today, 09:48 PM
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ETA: At any rate, he himself does say it as "Betto", as it really doesn't matter how they say it in the language it's taken from.

Last edited by pulykamell; Today at 09:49 PM.
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