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  #51  
Old 01-08-2020, 06:38 PM
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Meh. Y'all know perfectly well that if Hillary had been elected and had done exactly what Trump did, the SDMB would be applauding her courage and statesmanship.

Regards,
Shodan
But she wouldn't have done exactly what Trump did, so there's that.

All this bullshit about "They attacked our drone" or "They commandeered our allies' vessels" or "They fired missiles at a Saudi oil field" is nonsense. Except for the attack on KSA's oil field, I can say with a fairly high degree of certainty that none what we've been using as a pretext for war with Iran would have happened had we simply honored a nuclear agreement that was working.

As I've said many times before, Iran and the US had a face-saving way to move toward a new stage in relations. But there are highly special interests in the US, Israel, and KSA, who don't want Iran to become a regional power. I won't say I completely blame them, but Iran still is still entitled to sovereignty last time I checked.
  #52  
Old 01-08-2020, 06:47 PM
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What aggravates me about this whole situation is: Trump rolled the dice with American lives and he won BIG.

Trump killed a powerful Iranian leader, and all Iran got was a damaged military base.

Ugh!
I wouldn't be so sure of that - like at all. Colibri's right: we're just getting started. Whether Iran purposely tipped their pitch or not or whether it was just a poorly planned attack is still unclear. I suspect it might be the former, but only because they haven't thought about their longer term strategy.

There's no question that Trump caught them by surprise when he whacked Soleimani. Iran occasionally miscalculates just like we do, and attempting to overrun a US embassy was a miscalculation on their part. And I suspect that Trump and those who supported the attack probably used the fact that American diplomats were endangered as a pretext to counter cries foul that we killed a foreign official -- hard to cry about a dead guy in a uniform if that guy was threatening our embassy.

Still, actually killing him as opposed to sending him a signal in some other fashion was another overreaction on our part, and there will be consequences - and like Colibri, I don't think we know yet what those consequences will be exactly.

But, if I were to put myself in Iran's shoes, my goal wouldn't be to strike the American homeland - that would be the end of the regime and Iran knows it. What Iran really wants, as they've said, is to drive the US out of the region. And by the region I don't mean just Iraq, but the entire Arab/Persian world. They won't stop when we leave Iraq. They'll strike us anywhere they can as long as we're close enough to strike them.
  #53  
Old 01-08-2020, 06:58 PM
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Meh. Y'all know perfectly well that if Hillary had been elected and had done exactly what Trump did, the SDMB would be applauding her courage and statesmanship.

Regards,
Shodan
The ground you are staking out to defend in this debate only exists in a fantasy world of your own creation.

Sad.
  #54  
Old 01-08-2020, 07:06 PM
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"...I will make a statement in the morning."
Did that have anyone else on edge last night? Like, I was hoping it would just take him that long to learn the words in the prepared speech. But turning Tehran into a fireball would also make a statement that would impress the hell out of his knuckledragging supporters. And he could call himself The Savior of Dubai.
You're not the only one to have worried about that. But the likelier explanation is that Donald didn't want to say anything until he know how the FoxNews prime time hosts felt about the situation. He wouldn't want to contradict them, after all. So he watched TV all last night to be sure he'd get his message in line with Hannity et al.

Also, there could have been concerns about his sundowning, if he'd tried to address the nation at night.
  #55  
Old 01-08-2020, 08:01 PM
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I wouldn't be so sure of that - like at all. Colibri's right: we're just getting started. Whether Iran purposely tipped their pitch or not or whether it was just a poorly planned attack is still unclear. I suspect it might be the former, but only because they haven't thought about their longer term strategy.

There's no question that Trump caught them by surprise when he whacked Soleimani. Iran occasionally miscalculates just like we do, and attempting to overrun a US embassy was a miscalculation on their part. And I suspect that Trump and those who supported the attack probably used the fact that American diplomats were endangered as a pretext to counter cries foul that we killed a foreign official -- hard to cry about a dead guy in a uniform if that guy was threatening our embassy.

Still, actually killing him as opposed to sending him a signal in some other fashion was another overreaction on our part, and there will be consequences - and like Colibri, I don't think we know yet what those consequences will be exactly.

But, if I were to put myself in Iran's shoes, my goal wouldn't be to strike the American homeland - that would be the end of the regime and Iran knows it. What Iran really wants, as they've said, is to drive the US out of the region. And by the region I don't mean just Iraq, but the entire Arab/Persian world. They won't stop when we leave Iraq. They'll strike us anywhere they can as long as we're close enough to strike them.
I think the smarter play for Iran is to exacerbate America’s divide. They would be stupid to attack US civilians, it would push some people into supporting Trump who wouldn’t normally do so. By letting Trump be the unhinged lunatic, Iran keeps America divided and has world public opinion on their side. They should keep it that way, make this a conflict with Trump, not America.
  #56  
Old 01-08-2020, 10:39 PM
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You're not the only one to have worried about that. But the likelier explanation is that Donald didn't want to say anything until he know how the FoxNews prime time hosts felt about the situation. He wouldn't want to contradict them, after all. So he watched TV all last night to be sure he'd get his message in line with Hannity et al.

Also, there could have been concerns about his sundowning, if he'd tried to address the nation at night.
I honestly think that Trump was sedated by his doctors last night to prevent him from doing anything insane.
  #57  
Old 01-09-2020, 12:44 AM
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Credit where credit is due, given the current situation,
The current situation wouldn't have come to be without the Orange Toddler.
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  #58  
Old 01-09-2020, 12:45 AM
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I'm in Afghanistan, so I blessedly didn't see the ramblings of a madman backed by religious fanatics, but several of the articles I read mentioned that he was "subdued." He is obviously becoming more unhinged each day; imagine him at the end of his second term.
  #59  
Old 01-09-2020, 01:19 AM
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Did the articles mention who subdued him? Or at least how many guys leapt at the opportunity?
  #60  
Old 01-09-2020, 01:32 AM
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You libtards are at it again with your Fake News and Fake Facts.

Hillary would have cackled her way into War, trying to enrich her friends who speculate in commodity futures — lead and even uranium. Thousands of children would have been swept up in Iran and sent to the dungeons of pizza parlors all over the U.S. for her husband to play with. Our brave soldiers would have had to do all this with their bare hands because "Gunz are so very very bad!"

Donald Trump, OTOH, is an unselfish and noble patriot sent, like Cyrus the Great, by The Almighty. He is being Commanded by the Voice of God to rid the world of un-Christian heathens, and of would-be baby-killers who shriek their wrongness with foreign tongues and foreign skin tones.

You all would understand this if you could get out of your CNN-MSNBC bubble and stop masturbating each other in this echo chamber.

#MAGA

I'm sure I've misspelled a word or misplaced a comma above, and the hive mind will jump on that. But by God somebody has to defend our Glorious President!
  #61  
Old 01-09-2020, 03:23 AM
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Did the articles mention who subdued him? Or at least how many guys leapt at the opportunity?
I assume they get Ivanka to distract him with a low cut top and Jared puts something in his Big Mac.
  #62  
Old 01-09-2020, 04:55 AM
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I think the smarter play for Iran is to exacerbate America’s divide. They would be stupid to attack US civilians, it would push some people into supporting Trump who wouldn’t normally do so. By letting Trump be the unhinged lunatic, Iran keeps America divided and has world public opinion on their side. They should keep it that way, make this a conflict with Trump, not America.
They could go after a building outside the US with Trump's name on it, one that isn't actually owned by Trump. Do something non-violent like rip the Trump logo off or graffiti over it. Just to see if Trump is unhinged enough to use government resources to avenge a personal slight.
  #63  
Old 01-09-2020, 05:33 AM
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I thought that too, in fact I thought for sure that Trump branded buildings would become targets for anti-American protestors everywhere. Mostly though, I see people in DC flipping off his hotel downtown, me included. I have a pic of my wife on the way to the women's march giving it the finger with her elderly mother.
  #64  
Old 01-09-2020, 06:05 AM
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Meh. Y'all know perfectly well that if Hillary had been elected and had done exactly what Trump did, the SDMB would be applauding her courage and statesmanship.

Regards,
Shodan
Yeah, like the way we applauded when the Obama Administration targeted U.S. citizens with drones.

We left-of-center folks criticize our own when they do wrong things. The criticism of Obama by liberals began practically before he was inaugurated, while the stimulus bill was coming together. I remember, because I was very much part of that. We don't fall in line the way Republicans do. We don't do duckspeak. We don't hand our brains over to Dear Leader and agree that whatever he did was the right thing, regardless of what we've said about similar actions in the past.

We're not your mirror image, whatever you may want to believe.
  #65  
Old 01-09-2020, 06:15 AM
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But, if I were to put myself in Iran's shoes, my goal wouldn't be to strike the American homeland - that would be the end of the regime and Iran knows it. What Iran really wants, as they've said, is to drive the US out of the region. And by the region I don't mean just Iraq, but the entire Arab/Persian world. They won't stop when we leave Iraq. They'll strike us anywhere they can as long as we're close enough to strike them.
I don't know about that, but it's looking like almost a given that we'll be kicked out of Iraq, and once that happens, Iraq will be basically a satellite of Iran. And given Syria's unsettled state and Iran's role there, this will give Iran a zone of implicit control stretching almost to the Mediterranean.

Winning!
  #66  
Old 01-09-2020, 06:22 AM
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No. I can't speak for everyone, but I am fucking tired of being in fucking wars without explicit authorization by fucking Congress. Fuck this shit.
Very well put.
  #67  
Old 01-09-2020, 09:25 AM
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I don't know about that, but it's looking like almost a given that we'll be kicked out of Iraq, and once that happens, Iraq will be basically a satellite of Iran. And given Syria's unsettled state and Iran's role there, this will give Iran a zone of implicit control stretching almost to the Mediterranean.
Not "almost" to the Mediterranean. All the way to the Mediterranean. Syria has a coast, as does Lebanon.
  #68  
Old 01-09-2020, 02:50 PM
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Meh. Y'all know perfectly well that if Hillary had been elected and had done exactly what Trump did, the SDMB would be applauding her courage and statesmanship.

Regards,
Shodan
Hillary wouldn't have done what Trump did, exactly or otherwise, because despite being perceived as being hawkish she isn't fucking stupid, ignorant of the world, its cultures, or how they interact, nor is she driven by a Jupiter-sized ego with the impulse control of a spoilt two-year old and the thin-skinned sensitivity of the princess on a pea.
  #69  
Old 01-09-2020, 03:28 PM
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I thought that too, in fact I thought for sure that Trump branded buildings would become targets for anti-American protestors everywhere. Mostly though, I see people in DC flipping off his hotel downtown, me included. I have a pic of my wife on the way to the women's march giving it the finger with her elderly mother.
I had this fantasy that maybe Iran would target Trump buildings around the world, and that Trump’s insurers would refuse to cover the damages due to an “act of war” clause in the contracts. Win Win!

Last edited by Ann Hedonia; 01-09-2020 at 03:28 PM.
  #70  
Old 01-09-2020, 03:36 PM
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Hillary wouldn't have done what Trump did, exactly or otherwise, because despite being perceived as being hawkish she isn't fucking stupid, ignorant of the world, its cultures, or how they interact, nor is she driven by a Jupiter-sized ego with the impulse control of a spoilt two-year old and the thin-skinned sensitivity of the princess on a pea.
Trump apologists have very tiny brains. That's why they so frequently find Hillary and Obama living in their heads, rent free, for years now.
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  #71  
Old 01-09-2020, 04:01 PM
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I wouldn't be so sure of that - like at all. Colibri's right: we're just getting started. Whether Iran purposely tipped their pitch or not or whether it was just a poorly planned attack is still unclear. I suspect it might be the former, but only because they haven't thought about their longer term strategy.
The attack was the exact opposite of both of these. It was like intentionally throwing close to the batter. Iran coolly planned a massive warning shot. If nothing else, they want to avoid hitting Iraqis, especially after the vote to expel the US military, to show that they know they're caught in the middle.
  #72  
Old 01-09-2020, 05:34 PM
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I had this fantasy that maybe Iran would target Trump buildings around the world, and that Trump’s insurers would refuse to cover the damages due to an “act of war” clause in the contracts. Win Win!
Really? AIUI, in many instances, he has no financial interest in the buildings bearing his name, and he’s already been paid for the use of his name. A karmic lesson to anyone with the poor judgement to do business with him, to be sure, but not necessarily the painful hit he deserves.
  #73  
Old 01-09-2020, 07:06 PM
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Really? AIUI, in many instances, he has no financial interest in the buildings bearing his name, and he’s already been paid for the use of his name. A karmic lesson to anyone with the poor judgement to do business with him, to be sure, but not necessarily the painful hit he deserves.
I have this fantasy about a team of skilled vandalists, in the dark of night, transforming the 50-foot-high TRUMP sign on Chicago's tower to read TRAITOR.
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Old 01-09-2020, 08:01 PM
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I have this fantasy about a team of skilled vandalists, in the dark of night, transforming the 50-foot-high TRUMP sign on Chicago's tower to read TRAITOR.
<mutters to self> Where's the fucking LIKE button? </mts>

OK, fine. LIKE!!!
  #75  
Old 01-09-2020, 08:22 PM
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I have this fantasy about a team of skilled vandalists, in the dark of night, transforming the 50-foot-high TRUMP sign on Chicago's tower to read TRAITOR.
Logistically speaking, I must concede that it seems more doable than changing it to my preferred appellation of AMERICA-HATING FUCKSTICK (even if mine would be more impressive).
  #76  
Old 01-09-2020, 08:29 PM
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I have this fantasy about a team of skilled vandalists, in the dark of night, transforming the 50-foot-high TRUMP sign on Chicago's tower to read TRAITOR.
You know that here in DC, an artist routinely projects things onto his hotel? My favorite was “pay bribes here.” https://edition.cnn.com/2017/05/16/p...ion/index.html

Last edited by madmonk28; 01-09-2020 at 08:30 PM.
  #77  
Old 01-09-2020, 10:12 PM
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I have this fantasy about a team of skilled vandalists, in the dark of night, transforming the 50-foot-high TRUMP sign on Chicago's tower to read TRAITOR.
I think LOSER would be more likely to trigger Trump, not sure if that'd be a good thing. I suspect that's the epithet he most loathes.
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  #78  
Old 01-09-2020, 11:17 PM
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I think LOSER would be more likely to trigger Trump, not sure if that'd be a good thing. I suspect that's the epithet he most loathes.
How about FIRED?
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Old 01-09-2020, 11:18 PM
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Just take away the T, leave RUMP. Fitting for the ass he's always been.
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  #80  
Old 01-10-2020, 08:55 AM
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Maybe he want the US out of Iraq


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With all due respect, this seems rather short-sighted of you.

Iran's real retaliation will be in pushing the Americans out of Iraq in humiliating fashion. It's a long-term goal of theirs which, in the light of what has happened, now seems far more likely to succeed than ever before.
Maybe Mr. Trump does not believe he has the popularity to tackle the Military Industrial complex and the only way to get shut of US involvement in Iraq is to get pushed out by the elected Iraqi government. That is assuming he had a long term view
  #81  
Old 01-10-2020, 10:00 AM
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I think LOSER would be more likely to trigger Trump, not sure if that'd be a good thing. I suspect that's the epithet he most loathes.
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How about FIRED?
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Just take away the T, leave RUMP. Fitting for the ass he's always been.
It's all about making the building less desirable to live or work in, thus lowering its value and making the Trump brand even less valuable to his Russian creditors. And once they turn on him he's finished.
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  #82  
Old 01-10-2020, 10:37 AM
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Meh. Y'all know perfectly well that if Hillary had been elected and had done exactly what Trump did, the SDMB would be applauding her courage and statesmanship.

Regards,
Shodan
You should change the "regards" to "*zoom* *zoom*" to better epitomize your drive-by posting style. What happened to you? You used to be a pretty decent Republican poster, but now you've been reduced to stuff like this. Did Trump break you that hard?
  #83  
Old 01-10-2020, 01:37 PM
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Shodan at least had enough entertainment value, for a unrepentant reactionary, to keep him off the Ignore list.

He can't even manage that anymore.
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  #84  
Old 01-10-2020, 02:17 PM
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Shodan at least had enough entertainment value, for a unrepentant reactionary, to keep him off the Ignore list.
He did?
  #85  
Old 01-10-2020, 02:28 PM
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Shodan at least had enough entertainment value, for a unrepentant reactionary, to keep him off the Ignore list.

He can't even manage that anymore.
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He did?
You don't enjoy watching a contortionist?
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Old 01-10-2020, 02:29 PM
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<snip>
Nice username/post combo!
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Old 01-13-2020, 09:55 AM
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Like if it's a fight between his stupidity and cowardice, are you sure you can pick the winner?
Yup. I predict a dead heat.
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Old 01-13-2020, 10:07 AM
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It's all about making the building less desirable to live or work in, thus lowering its value and making the Trump brand even less valuable to his Russian creditors. And once they turn on him he's finished.
In more ways than one. Both Flynn and Manafort had nice plea deals in place, but they both basically ripped them to shreds and started trying to get themselves some serious jail time? Why? Putin has a long reach. If he can poison someone with polonium in London, getting somebody whacked in an American jail is no big challenge. He's among the world's richest men.
  #89  
Old 01-13-2020, 11:25 AM
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You don't enjoy watching a contortionist?
Contortionist, maybe.

Watching Shodan eat dogshit and try to convince everybody it's lobster Neuberg? Not so much.
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  #90  
Old 01-13-2020, 12:19 PM
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Contortionist, maybe.

Watching Shodan eat dogshit and try to convince everybody it's lobster Neuberg? Not so much.
Then he gets angry and enraged at people eating tuna sandwiches, but he's the one who made those choices.

Doesn't matter how much chocolate frosting you layer on a dog turd, it's still a dog turd, and Trumpies are the ones doing it to themselves. Ain't my fault you didn't want to bake a frickin' cake yourself and believed Trump because he said he'd give you all the "big, beautiful, piece(s) of chocolate cake," you wanted.

It's not like Trump has a history of this shit or anything.
  #91  
Old 01-13-2020, 12:59 PM
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I had this fantasy that maybe Iran would target Trump buildings around the world, and that Trump’s insurers would refuse to cover the damages due to an “act of war” clause in the contracts. Win Win!
You think people around the world dying in buildings that have "Trump" on them is somehow a win for anybody?

Strange.
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