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  #51  
Old 01-11-2020, 09:47 AM
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I sense that the mods, not all, but a few, don't quite get the concept of parody, games, and satire.
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  #52  
Old 01-11-2020, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Patch View Post
I am curious to know if the editing got so out of hand, if in the scene where the Gov wraps his arm around Cleavon and says "Don't you realize that man is a ni-" they bleeped out "ni-".
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Originally Posted by Chief Pedant View Post
When we proscribe or censor words like "nigger" or "faggot," we weaponize those words, and we weaken the groups described by them.
Which begs the question, did they censor Slim Pickens "Kansas City faggots" a song or two after "nigger work songs" or Dom Delouise's "Watch me faggots" in the 'French Mistake' scene? What about "docking the napping chinks" pay? Scoff at slippery slopes all you want, but with offense levels so prevalent and disparate, you almost could imagine a point the audio track starts to resemble and old Emergency Broadcast System test tone.
  #53  
Old 01-11-2020, 03:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Chief Pedant View Post
When we proscribe or censor words like "nigger" or "faggot," we weaponize those words, and we weaken the groups described by them.
What a convenient hypothesis, for people who aren't in those groups and who don't want to be inconvenienced by having to pay attention to whether the language used in their social circles is offensive.

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Originally Posted by Chief Pedant
There is no more potent way to keep "nigger" a powerful weapon for a malignant user than to ban it.
Hmmm. By that reasoning, you'd think that all those decades during which that particular racial slur was accepted in in widespread use would have succeeded in de-powering and de-potenting it as a verbal weapon.

But surprise surprise, turns out that black people still strongly objected to being called "nigger" even when it was no big deal to most white people. How peculiar.

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Originally Posted by Chief Pedant
Banning "nigger" turns its use into An Event.
The malignant use of that word was always An Event for the people targeted by it. Just because most white people back in the day didn't much mind hearing it doesn't mean it was genuinely a trivial thing or no big deal.

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Originally Posted by Chief Pedant
It creates a contest for the Most Offended to step up and be recognized as champions of the downtrodden; protecting blacks who are so weak that even words are enough to beat them down.
Hmmm. Funny how I never hear that insinuation of "weakness" used to deplore, say, prohibitions of slurs like "kike" or "yid" or antisemitic graffiti targeting Jews.

If public rejection of hate speech really had such deleterious "weakening" effects on minorities, you'd think that the anti-"weakness" advocates would be all up in arms about it when some nazi paints a swastika near the local shul.

"What do you mean, it's an intolerable and unacceptable hate crime? Are you trying to turn that congregation into a despised bunch of fragile sissypants by suggesting that they're so weak that even a bit of paint on the sidewalk is enough to beat them down? Why, if you really cared about the Jews, you'd be out there painting more swastikas yourself, just to help them become tough enough to handle it! "

But no, oddly enough, it's only blacks and gays who seem to attract these helpful folks selflessly trying to strengthen their emotional immune systems by warning that they aren't getting sufficient exposure to hateful slurs.
  #54  
Old 01-11-2020, 07:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Kimstu View Post
...

But surprise surprise, turns out that black people still strongly objected to being called "nigger" even when it was no big deal to most white people. How peculiar....
Let's not get into this hijack.

This thread is in no way shape or form about calling black people by that term.

It's all about what is acceptable in works of art.
  #55  
Old 01-11-2020, 10:02 PM
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It's tangentially related, and not really a hijack. Still out of place, but let's not call it what it isn't.
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  #56  
Old 01-13-2020, 02:48 PM
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Because some people are so busy being offended, that they don't have any time for common sense.
And beyond that, the absurd and gratuitous use of the word was part and parcel of that message- it pointed up the racists and their attitudes.

Censoring it is a sort of throwing the baby out with the bathwater, at least in terms of Blazing Saddles in particular.
  #57  
Old 01-13-2020, 03:43 PM
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The original mini-series also didn't have the murder of the gay guy, but it did in the new one.

(Interestingly enough, I read somewhere that the kid who played Henry in the mini-series absolutely hated using the n-word, and after every scene, he'd apologize to the kid playing Mike.)
Something similar happened with Blazing Saddles:

Quote:
While filming, Burton Gilliam (Lyle, the henchman of Taggart (Slim Pickens)) was having a difficult time saying the word "nigger", especially to Cleavon Little, because he really liked him. Finally, after several takes, Little took Gilliam off to the side and told him it was okay because these weren't his words. Little jokingly added, "If I thought you would say those words to me in any other situation we'd go to fist city, but this is all fun. Don't worry about it."

Last edited by Patch; 01-13-2020 at 03:43 PM.
  #58  
Old 01-13-2020, 04:54 PM
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The whole thing about why that word isn't used is because black people have told us that it is offensive. Lately, black people have been saying that they don't like even the mentioning of the word because it feels like white people just want to find an excuse to say it. After that guy lost his job at Netflix, and I didn't see any black people arguing in his defense, I decided that things had moved on and I needed to stop saying it.

I am not black. I don't get to choose to say a word that is offensive to black people on my own. They tell me when it is acceptable. This is so I can also tell people what things are too offensive to say about my minority. And also because I'm against causing unnecessary offense. If I am offensive, it should be intentional. Otherwise it gets in the way.

I concur that nothing is actually lost from Blazing Saddles with the word bleeped. We know what word it is. And the transgressive element of attacking the Innocent Western has passed, so the shock that they would dare say it is unnecessary.

My only requirement is that the original remain available. But if anyone wants to air it without that word, that is fine with me. TV stations censor far less offensive words. People don't complain that "fuck" or "shit" was absolutely necessary.

Last edited by BigT; 01-13-2020 at 04:55 PM.
  #59  
Old 01-14-2020, 06:17 AM
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Lately, black people have been saying that they don't like even the mentioning of the word because it feels like white people just want to find an excuse to say it.
Yeah, I get that feeling too from some white people very carefully not using the word but apparently seizing on any excuse to mention it. Like the kid with his/her finger half an inch away from your face saying "I'm not touching yoooouuuu!"

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigT
My only requirement is that the original remain available. But if anyone wants to air it without that word, that is fine with me. TV stations censor far less offensive words. People don't complain that "fuck" or "shit" was absolutely necessary.
Yup. We are in no danger of actually losing the unredacted original versions of such artworks with the original slurs included, and people can seek out those original versions if they want to.
  #60  
Old 01-14-2020, 04:55 PM
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Did TMC at least have the artistic sense to bleep it out using a church bell?
  #61  
Old 01-14-2020, 10:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Chief Pedant View Post
When we proscribe or censor words like "nigger" or "faggot," we weaponize those words, and we weaken the groups described by them.

There is no more potent way to keep "nigger" a powerful weapon for a malignant user than to ban it. Banning "nigger" turns its use into An Event. It creates a contest for the Most Offended to step up and be recognized as champions of the downtrodden; protecting blacks who are so weak that even words are enough to beat them down.

Censor it in a movie or a book, and instead of cleaning up an insult, you allow the word to retain all of the evil that ever went into it.

We do well to let the audience of language form their own opinions for any word use.
Sticks and stones is a far more powerful approach than is giving those with malicious intent words capable of inflicting maximum pain because the words are so powerful they need to be censored, and the targets of the malice so weak they need White Knights to keep them from being hurt.
I'm pretty sure the word was weaponized long before it was socially proscribed.
  #62  
Old 01-14-2020, 10:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Buck Godot View Post
Did TMC at least have the artistic sense to bleep it out using a church bell?

Well, that was in the original scrip for one scene, which I found really funny.
  #63  
Old 01-14-2020, 11:29 PM
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Perhaps it was censored as it is a comedy and seen as not weighty enough for that - just as nudity in Schindler's List is broadcast uncensored, but not American Pie.

Would they do the same with a drama that has racist dialogue? For instance, is "In the Heat of the Night" censored on TCM? They show that film fairly often
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