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Old 01-13-2020, 05:01 PM
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The Vegan Tuna Taste Conundrum


Or the Vegan Sausage Taste Conundrum for that matter. Here's the story - Mrs Trep and I walked past a restaurant today which had a board outside advertising it's latest thing, Vegan Tuna. Well, okay, it must be vegetable something or other processed in such a way as to approximate to tuna - but that begs the question: how do they know?

Let's presume that there had to be a testing process; and that a panel of tasting experts must have concluded that it tastes like tuna. The only way of doing that is by comparing it's taste to, well, tuna. And that means tasting tuna; and that requires the killing of tuna. On the face of it, you have to conclude that tuna died in the development of the product.

Can that really be vegan?

Are there vegans on the board who can put me right on this?

j

Full disclosure: I ate a vegan sausage on boxing day. Based on its similarity to an actual sausage in terms of taste and texture, I would estimate that approximately zero real sausages died in the development of that product. I'll be willing to mark that one down as truly vegan, no argument.
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Old 01-13-2020, 05:06 PM
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Maybe it was roadkill tuna.

Or, maybe they were assuming that it could just taste like whatever, so long as it smelled OK, because the vegans who could tell it didn't taste like tuna wouldn't admit it.
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Old 01-13-2020, 05:39 PM
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When The Daughter decided to become Vegetarian, I took her to Loma Linda Market* and we picked up a huge variety of things!

LL brand fake proteins have cutesy-poo names: Veg Stakes, Soyettes, etc etc.

I picked up a can of (wait for it!) "TUNO."

Some things she liked, some were so-so. Her father considers tuna sandwiches to be the foundation of any healthy diet. And when he slaps bacon on them, even unhealthy diet! The kid was raised on tuna.

She opened the can one day, mixed the contents with mayo, pickle and onion, and made a sandwich. Almost immediately thereafter, she was stuffing the sandwich and the rest of the "tuno" salad down the garbage disposer. She said not only was it horrible, she didn't want anyone else in the house to eat it by mistake.

Perhaps the problem was not having a taste-tester to evaluate the product?


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*Loma Linda, California, has a huge population of Seventh-Day Adventists
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Old 01-13-2020, 05:58 PM
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You make a good point if one is vegan for ethical reasons. It would be unethical to have a vegan dish that was created by slaughtering animals for testing. Many of ethical vegans also forgo products that have had animal testing in their development. However a out may be a new vegan who has tasted animal before but vows not to again.

It also seems to exist with the issue with should we use medical research done by Nazi Germany if it can help people today and even can save lives?

We can get into counter arguments where now more people can go vegan because they have food options more people can live with, thus less animal deaths overall.

I don't have a answer to any of these arguments - except that one 'out' I mentioned, and until a revelation or a conclusion, I will stick with the words of Paul "
Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All food is clean, but it is wrong for a person to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble."

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Old 01-13-2020, 06:02 PM
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They just got a non vegan to taste test.
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Old 01-13-2020, 06:27 PM
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They just got a non vegan to taste test.
This would seem to be the obvious solution to the problem.

Those of us who are omnivores are not necessarily averse to eating 'vegan substitutes' for meat products...we just don't tend to seek them out, unless it's out of curiosity.
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Old 01-13-2020, 07:37 PM
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This would seem to be the obvious solution to the problem.

Those of us who are omnivores are not necessarily averse to eating 'vegan substitutes' for meat products...we just don't tend to seek them out, unless it's out of curiosity.
Probably a nonvegan taste testing was how they did some of the better products, the worse products probably winged it [and i did try tuno, and it was that dire ... blargh.] Some of the scrambled tofu fake eggs are pretty decent, and there are some recipes for vegan breakfast burritos are pretty good. I regularly eat tofu based General Tso and it is just fine.

I am more than willing to have vegetarian and vegan foods, for my sister and brother in law I am willing to play with recipes to come up with vegetarian stuff with no alliums [garlic, onions, shallots] because they follow some practice where they are forbidden [working on a seitan roll with stuffing as a mock turkey. I want to find a roast chicken looking and sized mold I can use to bake it in to shape it =) ] I have figured out how to use egg white to emulate a fish fillet [cook the whites in a jelly roll pan, cut into slices and use more raw egg white to glue the strips together so they look like the flakes of fish in a steak, then dip in more whites or whites and yolks beaten as an egg wash to hold breading onto the mock fillet. Looks pretty much just liek a breaded fish slab =) ] Funky fake foods were a mainstay of fancy medieval and rennaisance banquets so the idea of making fake foods is fine with me. Maybe I will figure out a way to turn bread sticks into bones =)
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Old 01-13-2020, 08:28 PM
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I've had vegan "tuna" salad sandwiches made with mashed-up chickpeas mixed with the other ingredients you'd ordinarily use in tuna salad. It was quite good. Many, if not most vegans, didn't start out that way, and fully remember what a tuna sandwich tastes like.
https://simple-veganista.com/chickpe...salad-sandwic/

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Old 01-13-2020, 09:36 PM
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I still don't understand why vegans have to make fake food. Why don't they appreciate the flavors of the foods they eat rather than make a poor approximation of foods they don't eat?
That said, this thread reminds me of a discussion I once had with an orthodox Jewish colleague. He was stating that he didn't miss shellfish since he could eat surimi which was a crab substitute. I wasn't sure whether to tell him that surimi is not crab, doesn't resemble good crab in either taste or texture and IMNSHO is only useful in cheap California rolls where the real thing is either not available or too expensive.
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Old 01-13-2020, 09:41 PM
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They just got a non vegan to taste test.
I think the point for some vegans is that no animals be harmed at any point in the production of their food. So if real fish had to be killed in order to perform the taste tests used in developing this tuna substitute, then the tuna substitute that resulted cannot be described as vegan.
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Old 01-13-2020, 09:51 PM
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You don't need a side-by-side test. No one expects "vegan tuna" to taste exactly like tuna. You just need someone familiar with tuna, either a non-vegan or a vegan who used to eat tuna, and have them taste it. Does it tastes good? Does it remind one of tuna? That's probably all you should expect.
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Old 01-13-2020, 10:32 PM
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How many vegans have been vegan their whole lives? I'm guessing there are plenty of vegans who remember what tuna tastes like from their non-vegan days.
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Old 01-13-2020, 10:40 PM
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The sort of vegans who are that pedantically purist generally also are the types who avoid processed foods anyway, so it's rarely going to be a practical issue.
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Old 01-13-2020, 10:58 PM
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I'd guess the fakey stuff is more suited for the newly-Vegan.

Young adults who "don't want to eat anything with a face" often end up eating bread, French fries and a garden salad when they eat out with friends. It truly isn't enough to become a righteously indignant Vegan. You have to educate yourself about all types of foods, understand essential amino acids, and learn how to get enough protein in your diet.

Young adults are often still building brains and muscles, and they NEED protein. It isn't quite as complicated as Diet for a Small Planet would have you believe. You don't need to protein-balance for every meal. But you do need a balanced diet, with many nutrients. Until you are ready to do the research and reorganize your pantry, the protein analogs will keep you from starving.

Since the fakey meats are hideously expensive, the research will have to be done eventually.


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Old 01-14-2020, 06:09 AM
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Same way my 100% kosher grandma just KNEW when she accidentally took a bite of ham. Sometimes the palate knows what the palate knows.
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Old 01-14-2020, 07:00 AM
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It seems to me that purists who want to avoid causing any animal deaths are fooling themselves.

Agriculture is going to involve the destruction of natural habitats. It's going to involve the elimination of pests. Mechanical harvesting of things like soybeans will likely kill some ground nesting birds.

I'm not preaching against vegetarianism or veganism. There are sound ecological and health reasons to eliminate or at least reduce our consumption of meat. But living on planet Earth involves competition with other living things and unless you're willing to lose that competition you will, at least indirectly, cause deaths of animals.
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Old 01-14-2020, 07:00 AM
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I still don't understand why vegans have to make fake food. Why don't they appreciate the flavors of the foods they eat rather than make a poor approximation of foods they don't eat?
I think most vegans probably do just cook vegan food, rather than fake meat food. These products exist largely as 'entry-level' options, perhaps to help persuade non-vegans that they don't have to give up everything.

Here's the thing: KFC is currently selling a vegan 'no chicken' sandwich in UK restaurants. It would have been much easier for them to create a vegan menu option in the form of a ricebox or burrito with some beans and pulses, but that would have very little market impact. I went to KFC to try out the no chicken sandwich last week, and *everybody* was buying it.

Quorn (cultured fungal protein), quite apart from the way it can be made to resemble meat, is an interesting technical solution to the sustainable production of quality protein for feeding humans - it has a lower carbon footprint than tofu, for example.

Last edited by Mangetout; 01-14-2020 at 07:01 AM.
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Old 01-14-2020, 08:18 AM
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Full disclosure: I ate a vegan sausage on boxing day. Based on its similarity to an actual sausage in terms of taste and texture, I would estimate that approximately zero real sausages died in the development of that product. I'll be willing to mark that one down as truly vegan, no argument.
What variety of sausage? In my exploration of the market, sausages are the thing where I'd say the approximation to meat-based recipes has come closest - perhaps because sausages are so processed anyway.
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Old 01-14-2020, 08:39 AM
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You don't need a side-by-side test. No one expects "vegan tuna" to taste exactly like tuna. You just need someone familiar with tuna, either a non-vegan or a vegan who used to eat tuna, and have them taste it. Does it tastes good? Does it remind one of tuna? That's probably all you should expect.
Maybe they just came up with something that smelled like Gwyneth Paltrow's vagina and called it good enough.
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Old 01-14-2020, 09:05 AM
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When The Daughter decided to become Vegetarian, I took her to Loma Linda Market* and we picked up a huge variety of things!

LL brand fake proteins have cutesy-poo names: Veg Stakes, Soyettes, etc etc.

I picked up a can of (wait for it!) "TUNO."...
I am not a vegetarian, but I am very curious about all kinds of food - I once (on the recommendation of a veggie friend, who said it would be awesome) tried some vegetarian 'fish free king prawns'.
The sort of looked OK, but the flavour and texture was bizarre - they somehow managed to be simultaneously rubbery, crisp, mushy and spongy - sort of like chewing a mouthful of wet rubber bands. The flavour was also very odd - it was what could honestly be described as 'fishy', but not in any kind of good way - like 'this fish has gone off' sort of smell, not 'mmmm, fish!'

I guess meat flavours are probably easier to fake than seafood flavours.
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Old 01-14-2020, 09:07 AM
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I still don't understand why vegans have to make fake food. Why don't they appreciate the flavors of the foods they eat rather than make a poor approximation of foods they don't eat?
They don't all, and I can also understand wanting to address the taste-void of meat and cheese etc dishes that one might miss if one had not always been a vegan. But at the same time, yeah, there does seem to be a lot of that and I find it annoying too. There's a lot of good recipes for vegan food (much of which is incidentally rather than intentionally vegan, btw) and it's delicious; I'm not a vegan and I seek it out because I love the stuff! (Ethiopian and Indian vegan items in particular, yumm!) But stuff like that doesn't get touted anywhere near as much as fake meat, fake cheese, fake ice cream, etc.
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Old 01-14-2020, 09:10 AM
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Or the Vegan Sausage Taste Conundrum for that matter. Here's the story - Mrs Trep and I walked past a restaurant today which had a board outside advertising it's latest thing, Vegan Tuna. Well, okay, it must be vegetable something or other processed in such a way as to approximate to tuna - but that begs the question: how do they know?

Let's presume that there had to be a testing process; and that a panel of tasting experts must have concluded that it tastes like tuna. The only way of doing that is by comparing it's taste to, well, tuna. And that means tasting tuna; and that requires the killing of tuna. On the face of it, you have to conclude that tuna died in the development of the product.

Can that really be vegan?
That's like saying: If the person serving you your vegan food in a reastaurant ate bacon and eggs for breakfast, the energy expended in carrying the plate to your table came from the exploitation of animals. How can that food be vegan?

It's a silly concern. Unless the companies manufacturing these products are routinely exploiting animals in the ongoing manufacture of their products, it's silly to consider the whole product line poisoned by the development process - there are enough people who know what meat tastes like to serve on tasting panels.

At some future point, if the consumption of meat is so vanishingly rare that nobody is available to verify if FakeSteak(tm) really tastes like real steak, it won't matter anyway.
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Old 01-14-2020, 09:18 AM
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They don't all, and I can also understand wanting to address the taste-void of meat and cheese etc dishes that one might miss if one had not always been a vegan. But at the same time, yeah, there does seem to be a lot of that and I find it annoying too. There's a lot of good recipes for vegan food (much of which is incidentally rather than intentionally vegan, btw) and it's delicious; I'm not a vegan and I seek it out because I love the stuff! (Ethiopian and Indian vegan items in particular, yumm!) But stuff like that doesn't get touted anywhere near as much as fake meat, fake cheese, fake ice cream, etc.
The market is accustomed to meat. If you want to invite them through the door, offering them something familiar just makes sense. Small steps are a very effective way to deliver change.

Another good thing about these mainsteam vegan offerings is: They are automatically OK for lactose intolerant people; they also offer an option to people on Halal or Kosher diets.

Don't get me wrong - I actually welcome the idea of fast food restaurants selling menu offerings that are nutritionally balanced, and aren't trying to be meat, but I feel like the fake meat thing is a logical step toward that - open people's minds to the idea that it's possible to enjoy a meal that contains no meat, and once that barrier is broken, other things become possible.
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Old 01-14-2020, 09:27 AM
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TVP-based sausages should be able to get quite close to the real thing. Certainly TVP can match the texture of ground meat, and for the flavor, you just choose a target sausage that's heavily spiced, like chorizo, so the flavor doesn't depend as much on the meat itself.
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Old 01-14-2020, 10:07 AM
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I still don't understand why vegans have to make fake food. Why don't they appreciate the flavors of the foods they eat rather than make a poor approximation of foods they don't eat?
A lot actually don't. A number of the ethical vegans I know don't like fake meat at all, as it does remind them of animal flesh. It's certainly not a majority, but certainly not all vegans feel the need to eat faux animal products.

And a lot of the people buying fake meat are actually not vegetarian or vegan. They're meat-eaters just like me.

Like see here:

Quote:
A significant number of meat-eaters are opening up to plant-based eating; January data revealed 70 percent of people purchasing the vegan Beyond Burger are meat-eaters.
From here.

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Old 01-14-2020, 10:15 AM
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What variety of sausage? In my exploration of the market, sausages are the thing where I'd say the approximation to meat-based recipes has come closest - perhaps because sausages are so processed anyway.
What happened is this: it was boxing day, we were at a party thrown by friends, and one of their extended family is vegan, I have dietary restrictions (no red meat) which have pushed me towards more vegetarian eating, and I was chatting with this vegan lady about the food that had been specially prepped for her. “Have one of the sausages”, she said, “You can hardly tell that they’re not meat”. That’s all I know about their provenance.

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How many vegans have been vegan their whole lives? I'm guessing there are plenty of vegans who remember what tuna tastes like from their non-vegan days.
So far as the development of the sausages goes, distant and fading memory is a possible explanation for their flavour (and texture).

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Maybe it was roadkill tuna……
Use of roadkill in the sausage flavour testing program is perhaps the more likely explanation. By the way, Roadkill Tuna is an Australian punk band.*

j

* - no it isn’t, I made that up. But it should be, and if we all wish hard enough, maybe we can make it happen. If you’re wise, Filbert, you’ll register the name yourself, right now.

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Old 01-14-2020, 10:17 AM
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Or the Vegan Sausage Taste Conundrum for that matter. Here's the story - Mrs Trep and I walked past a restaurant today which had a board outside advertising it's latest thing, Vegan Tuna.
Are you sure it wasn't supposed to taste like the other tuna?
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Old 01-14-2020, 10:37 AM
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A lot actually don't. A number of the ethical vegans I know don't like fake meat at all, as it does remind them of animal flesh. It's certainly not a majority, but certainly not all vegans feel the need to eat faux animal products.

And a lot of the people buying fake meat are actually not vegetarian or vegan. They're meat-eaters just like me.
One thing I have noticed a tiny bit (not so it's a big problem) is a tone of slight annoyance from some vegans (or from people who say they're vegans anyway) - I guess there's a small but vocal contingent who liked to use their ethical choice as one-up on meat eaters, and are perhaps a bit miffed that meat eaters can just switch pretty easily now.
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Old 01-14-2020, 10:48 AM
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Are you sure it wasn't supposed to taste like the other tuna?
You had me going for a moment there - and hey, ignorance fought, I've learned something today. I now feel like I know more about the world than I did when I woke up. But in answer to your question, it was a branch of Wagamama, and I googled it and yes I am sure.

Quote:
The vegan fish is made with dehydrated watermelon which is then sliced, seared and served hot, which apparently gives it the look and texture of tuna sashimi....
HOWEVER - this just in (same article):

Quote:
....Although the restaurant say the flavour remains like that of watermelon, rather than fish. It will also cost you almost as much as the real meat and fish equivalent dishes at the restaurant.
So I have answered my own question - actually, they know for a fact that it DOESN'T taste like tuna. That's why they call it vegan tuna. Obviously.

I now feel like I know LESS about the world than I did when I woke up. OK - as I alluded to in the OP, let's talk about the taste testing of vegan sausages instead......

j
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Old 01-14-2020, 10:49 AM
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One thing I have noticed a tiny bit (not so it's a big problem) is a tone of slight annoyance from some vegans (or from people who say they're vegans anyway) - I guess there's a small but vocal contingent who liked to use their ethical choice as one-up on meat eaters, and are perhaps a bit miffed that meat eaters can just switch pretty easily now.
Like Former Smoker Syndrome?

j
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Old 01-14-2020, 10:55 AM
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Like Former Smoker Syndrome?
Could be, and it's understandable - if you go to any great effort to make a lifestyle change, I guess it can be really annoying to see someone else do it more easily.

(I found quitting smoking to be a pretty simple thing to do, BTW)
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Old 01-14-2020, 11:12 AM
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That's like saying: If the person serving you your vegan food in a reastaurant ate bacon and eggs for breakfast, the energy expended in carrying the plate to your table came from the exploitation of animals. How can that food be vegan?
More along the lines, I would say, of people who wonít buy make-up that has been developed using animals. My question relates to how an honest attempt to match a flavour, by using animals in development, sits with vegans. I would say itís a reasonable thing to ponder. Not in a too serious way, though Ė itís not Great Debates material.

That said, Iím beginning to wonder if any attempt is made to pitch for that authentic meat (or fish) flavour. We may be edging towards an understanding here.

j
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Old 01-14-2020, 11:45 AM
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More along the lines, I would say, of people who wonít buy make-up that has been developed using animals. My question relates to how an honest attempt to match a flavour, by using animals in development, sits with vegans. I would say itís a reasonable thing to ponder. Not in a too serious way, though Ė itís not Great Debates material.

That said, Iím beginning to wonder if any attempt is made to pitch for that authentic meat (or fish) flavour. We may be edging towards an understanding here.

j
I'd say possibly the most clear example is going to be the 'impossible' products - in order to formulate their products, they had to empirically analyse meat to determine what makes it taste, smell and behave like meat; this will inevitably have required some meat products to analyse.
Some other meat-style products may not have needed to do this - they may just have designed the product based on generalised desired properties.
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Old 01-14-2020, 12:33 PM
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At some future point, if the consumption of meat is so vanishingly rare that nobody is available to verify if FakeSteak(tm) really tastes like real steak, it won't matter anyway.

There was a SF book I read one summer back in the early 1970s [which I would love to reread but I have no idea of title or author] where a bunch of people lived in a dome city surrounded by wilderness, one gathers after some sort of world catastrophy, The protagonist is a flavor synthesizer who was particularly proud of developing a very popular ;strawberries and cream' flavor for their synthetic foods, until he somehow ends up outside the dome and gets to taste real strawberries and real cream ...


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TVP-based sausages should be able to get quite close to the real thing. Certainly TVP can match the texture of ground meat, and for the flavor, you just choose a target sausage that's heavily spiced, like chorizo, so the flavor doesn't depend as much on the meat itself.

Back in the mid 70s we ate a fair amount of TVP in 'meat' sauces [lasagne, spaghetti] and I remember the people who ran the food coop out of their house also had beef, ham and chicken chunks, ground beef and ground sausage TVP. THe ham was smoke and salt, the sausage was salt and sausage seasoning, no idea what the beef and chicken chunks were flavored with, I don't really remember Mom every really doing anything except the beef crumbles in sauces. I think she also subbed out some regular ground beef in meatloaf with TVP.


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More along the lines, I would say, of people who wonít buy make-up that has been developed using animals.

j
And they get so testy when one points out they are using a formulary that *was* previously animal tested. THE FDA when it comes to makeup and cosmetic products don't make you test if you use GRAS [generally regarded as safe] products in your new spiffy "not animal tested" products.
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  #35  
Old 01-14-2020, 11:04 PM
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I still don't understand why vegans have to make fake food. Why don't they appreciate the flavors of the foods they eat rather than make a poor approximation of foods they don't eat?
That said, this thread reminds me of a discussion I once had with an orthodox Jewish colleague. He was stating that he didn't miss shellfish since he could eat surimi which was a crab substitute. I wasn't sure whether to tell him that surimi is not crab, doesn't resemble good crab in either taste or texture and IMNSHO is only useful in cheap California rolls where the real thing is either not available or too expensive.
Not to mention, my understanding is that you shouldn't eat something that even resembles a forbidden food. Given that surimi is explicitly designed to mimic crab (visually, at least), this seems like a no-no.
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Old 01-15-2020, 10:17 AM
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Hardcore Vegans don't want anything even resembling meat. One type of meat analog is made with wheat protein, and it's called SEITAN. With a helluva lot of work, you can make it at home. It's essentially flavorless, so you gotta doctor it up to imitate meat.

The thing is, Seitan has a grain to it, like meat. Flavored and slathered with sauces, it can bear more than a passing resemblance to meat.

And the hardcore Vegans reject it.


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  #37  
Old 01-16-2020, 12:25 AM
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Source?

I know a few vegans. They all enjoy seitan. My SIL is a pretty hard core vegan. Her email address is along the lines of "veganlove@isp.com". She's happy to eat seitan. When I eat with her at vegan restaurants she usually has a dish with seitan.
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Old 01-16-2020, 01:13 AM
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I know a few vegans. They all enjoy seitan. My SIL is a pretty hard core vegan. Her email address is along the lines of "veganlove@isp.com". She's happy to eat seitan. When I eat with her at vegan restaurants she usually has a dish with seitan.

Anecdotal info I picked up doing research when I became Vegan in...hmmmm...2003? I bought books, I read stuff all over the internet, and I participated in several message boards. It would probably take ten years to dig it all up again.

I didn't say all Vegans reject Seitan. And there are devout Vegans and then you get to the hardcore ones. I've made Seitan. I even once made tofu. I had a soymilk maker, and I made soymilk often.

I met some wonderful people who have a webzine called "Vegetarians in Paradise." I was newly-diagnosed with Diabetes, and I was exploring Veganism for health. I had so many questions, and so many ideas, those kind people offered me a column as a guest contributor!

http://www.vegparadise.com

Go down the page and look for the index. You should find, "Using Your Bean." By VOW, of course!


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Last edited by VOW; 01-16-2020 at 01:14 AM.
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Old 01-16-2020, 07:39 AM
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The more you learn...

And, of course, seitan can be made into dishes where it doesn't particularly look like meat. I don't eat "fake meat" but I'll eat seitan in a stir fry or something.
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Old 01-16-2020, 08:38 AM
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Hardcore Vegans don't want anything even resembling meat.
I get this.

Let's say, hypothetically, I'm a person who rejects eating human flesh, for ethical reasons. Let's then posit that some company creates a product called Hooman Flesh, which is made out of pork but modified to taste exactly like human flesh. Why would I want to eat this? I find the idea of eating human flesh abhorrent, why strive to mimic the experience?
  #41  
Old 01-16-2020, 09:47 AM
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Not to mention, my understanding is that you shouldn't eat something that even resembles a forbidden food. Given that surimi is explicitly designed to mimic crab (visually, at least), this seems like a no-no.
Surimi is a no-no because itís not vegan. Itís made from fish. Mr. Crab may rejoice using it, but Mr. Pollack is not so happy.

Both of my daughters turned into ethical vegans in their early teens. They read ingredient lists like hawks and give me grief if I mess up.

Examples: Iím not vegan, but Iíve been making breakfast sausage biscuits with Morning Star Farms Veggie Breakfast Sausage Patties since before the girls were born because I like the taste of the patties (introduced to me by a former vegetarian girlfriend). So, I innocently made these tasty biscuits for my daughters...and the shit hit the fan. ďDad, these patties have egg and milk in them, how dare you serve them to us!Ē

The Brits are rather silly and didnít do so well in the Revolutionary War, but they do make excellent gravy granules in the form of Bisto. I read the ingredient list of their beef gravy granulesóvegan! Yay, I serve it to my kids and they love it. Another day, I wanted to make gravy for some godawful veggie-chick nuggets I fabricated, so I whipped up some Bisto Chicken Granule gravy. ďHell's bells, dad, this gravy has chicken in it! You can forget about us visiting you when we put you in the old folks home next year!Ē Who knew? Bisto beef gravy is vegan; Bisto chicken gravy is not.

My youngest kid is particularly hard to cook for. Not only is she hard-core vegan (no meat, no dairy, no honey...), but she canít stand 99% of vegetables!

Tofu and seitan (made from wheat) are good vegan products to work with, but lately Iíve been experimenting with tempeh (fermented soy). It has a nice firm texture and nutty flavor. It spices up well.
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Old 01-16-2020, 10:43 AM
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Tibby, for future gravy and other culinary delights, check out a product called "Better than Buillon." They offer several versions which are Vegan!

I got so excited when I discovered this stuff, I gave it as Christmas presents to my friends! Honestly, a spoonful can make spaghetti sauce or chilimtaste like you cooked it all day!


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  #43  
Old 01-16-2020, 10:45 AM
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Also, Tibby, since your daughters are Vegan, the nifty product "Quorn" is not to be on your shopping list. It's got egg in it.


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  #44  
Old 01-16-2020, 11:24 AM
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Also, Tibby, since your daughters are Vegan, the nifty product "Quorn" is not to be on your shopping list. It's got egg in it.


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Not necessarily. They have a vegan range.
  #45  
Old 01-16-2020, 11:33 AM
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The Brits are rather silly and didnít do so well in the Revolutionary War, but they do make excellent gravy granules in the form of Bisto. I read the ingredient list of their beef gravy granulesóvegan! Yay, I serve it to my kids and they love it. Another day, I wanted to make gravy for some godawful veggie-chick nuggets I fabricated, so I whipped up some Bisto Chicken Granule gravy. ďHell's bells, dad, this gravy has chicken in it! You can forget about us visiting you when we put you in the old folks home next year!Ē Who knew? Bisto beef gravy is vegan; Bisto chicken gravy is not.
You have to watch out for this - Bisto, Bovril (not the same company though) and other products kept switching back between including vs excluding animal products in their formulations - they dropped the animal ingredients during the BSE scare, for example, but later reintroduced them when people complained. I had to stop buying Bovril chicken because they suddenly introduced dairy products into the recipe (my daughter is lactose intolerant) - check the label every time you buy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bovril#Recipe_changes
  #46  
Old 01-16-2020, 11:48 AM
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n/m figured it out.

Last edited by pulykamell; 01-16-2020 at 11:49 AM.
  #47  
Old 01-16-2020, 02:59 PM
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Not necessarily. They have a vegan range.

That's an excellent addition. I was familiar only with the original Quorn.


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  #48  
Old 01-16-2020, 03:30 PM
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Not to mention, my understanding is that you shouldn't eat something that even resembles a forbidden food. Given that surimi is explicitly designed to mimic crab (visually, at least), this seems like a no-no.
Two Jews, three opinions. What you say is certainly true for some Orthodox.
  #49  
Old 01-16-2020, 03:43 PM
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Maybe it was roadkill tuna.
"Boatkill"?

Just test the stuff on meat eaters, and they can guide you.
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Last edited by Jasmine; 01-16-2020 at 03:44 PM.
  #50  
Old 01-18-2020, 12:25 PM
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I don’t know why, but “Tuno” strikes me as the funniest product name ever.


It’s understandable that those switching to vegan diets might look for things to fill certain “niches.” I’m a meat-eater myself, but I often get the black bean burger for lunch from a vegan place near my work. It fills the same niche as a regular burger - it’s savory and satisfying and a little messy. It doesn’t taste like beef, but provides the same sort of satisfaction. Most of their customers aren’t even vegan.* It’s just good food, and healthy too.

I can definitely see how a vegan would want something that fills the same niche as a tuna sandwich. If I became a vegan, I know I would because I sure do love tuna sandwiches. But trying to replicate an actual tuna sandwich seems like a fool’s errand. Maybe the mashed chickpea salad mentioned above could work. Maybe I’ll try it out.


*ETA - testing on meat-eaters is a good idea, even if it might seem unethical to some. The vegan place I go to judges recipes largely on whether non-vegans like the item. (Which is good business sense anyway. They couldn’t survive only on vegan customers. There aren’t enough of them.)

Last edited by Green Bean; 01-18-2020 at 12:30 PM.
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