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  #51  
Old 11-18-2019, 06:07 PM
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I remember listening to Late Registration by Kanye in about 2004, I was blown away by what a great album it was.

I still listen to it and love it.

I just have to forget about what Kanye has now become, he’s mentally ill imo. I also love Kate Bush but found out she’s a Tory :O This almost sent me over the edge, along with finding out that Tracey Emin is also A member of the Blue Party.

I’ve just had to separate my mind from the fact that Bush created beautiful music when young and had no money. She, like Emin, grew rich and forgot their roots. They got rich and became Tory

KW, I think he’s just ill. Mentally ill, no judgement held here upon him.
I still adore listening to Late Registration followed by the Miss Education of Lauren Hill. Ahhh, the beautiful Miss Hill, who never forgot her roots and turned conservative...if only Emin and Bush had been so loyal.

Last edited by Teddie; 11-18-2019 at 06:09 PM.
  #52  
Old 11-18-2019, 08:09 PM
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Wait until they find out he is bipolar and he thinks he is jesus.

The guy is having serious psychiatric problems in public and we just laugh at him. It sucks.
I think they managed to figure that one out in a hurry...they never even commented on the album.
  #53  
Old 11-20-2019, 03:54 AM
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Well, yes, the Kardashians make money for clothed appearances, too, but only because they're famous. And so far as anyone can determine, they're famous for doing porn videos.
Sure, no one had ever heard of Bruce Jenner or Robert Kardashian before Kim made a sex tape.

And characterizing it as a "porn video" is just disingenuous. It was a private sex tape. Just further slut shaming on your part, basically.

And it was just the one tape. "videos" is just wrong.

The audience demographic for KUWTK is undoubtedly not the audience demographic for Kim's sex tape, either. But it is the same audience for reality shows like The Simple Life and the tabloids that Kim was already appearing in.

And what "porn video" has Kylie made? You know, the billionaire of the bunch...

Last edited by MrDibble; 11-20-2019 at 03:56 AM.
  #54  
Old 11-20-2019, 04:50 AM
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And characterizing it as a "porn video" is just disingenuous. It was a private sex tape. Just further slut shaming on your part, basically.
Oh, so you are slut shaming shaming now?
(Ooops, now I'm slut shaming shaming shaming.)
  #55  
Old 11-20-2019, 05:06 AM
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Sure, no one had ever heard of Bruce Jenner or Robert Kardashian before Kim made a sex tape.

And characterizing it as a "porn video" is just disingenuous. It was a private sex tape. Just further slut shaming on your part, basically.

And it was just the one tape. "videos" is just wrong.

The audience demographic for KUWTK is undoubtedly not the audience demographic for Kim's sex tape, either. But it is the same audience for reality shows like The Simple Life and the tabloids that Kim was already appearing in.

And what "porn video" has Kylie made? You know, the billionaire of the bunch...
If you believe that the tape was made for private consumption then you have never heard of Paris Hilton and her fame. And the audience for porn is just about anyone who wants to see famous people fuck.
  #56  
Old 11-20-2019, 08:05 AM
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If you believe that the tape was made for private consumption then you have never heard of Paris Hilton and her fame.
You mean, another private tape that was distributed without consent? How do you think that refutes anything?

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And the audience for porn is just about anyone who wants to see famous people fuck.
That audience may not be as big or varied as you seem to think...
  #57  
Old 11-20-2019, 07:42 PM
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Do you really believe that there's the slightest chance that that tape existed for any purpose but to get Kim Kardashian a lot of publicity?

And what makes you think I'm shaming her? She wanted to be famous, she found a way to become famous, and her plan was successful.
  #58  
Old 11-20-2019, 11:41 PM
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Do you really believe that there's the slightest chance that that tape existed for any purpose but to get Kim Kardashian a lot of publicity?
Yes, I think it was just a private sex tape. Apparently lots of people make them.
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And what makes you think I'm shaming her? She wanted to be famous, she found a way to become famous, and her plan was successful.
Dive into literalism if you have to, but that's a piss-poor defense for characterizing her private activities as porn, or for extending one leaked sex tape into " they're famous for doing porn videos" as though the entire family is just constantly releasing them.

Anyway, slut-shaming needn't be directed at the person themselves, it's what you say to the rest of society that matters too.

And no counter to the fact she was already on the up-and-up as a celebrity, either.
  #59  
Old 11-21-2019, 05:42 AM
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Yes, I think it was just a private sex tape. Apparently lots of people make them.

Dive into literalism if you have to, but that's a piss-poor defense for characterizing her private activities as porn, or for extending one leaked sex tape into " they're famous for doing porn videos" as though the entire family is just constantly releasing them.

Anyway, slut-shaming needn't be directed at the person themselves, it's what you say to the rest of society that matters too.

And no counter to the fact she was already on the up-and-up as a celebrity, either.
So what happened to this?


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And - that's my quota of defending the horrible, for the next 12 months.
Yeah, yeah, we get it--you are Woke.
  #60  
Old 11-21-2019, 06:18 AM
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So what happened to this?
That's a joke, I say, that's a joke, son.
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Yeah, yeah, we get it--you are Woke.
You say it like it's a bad thing.

Go on, call me a SJW next, that always amuses.

Last edited by MrDibble; 11-21-2019 at 06:19 AM.
  #61  
Old 11-21-2019, 06:34 AM
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I won't call you a SJW, but I will say that I don't agree with the nihilistic attitude that any and all actions are equal in worth and value and morality, therefore, you can't express disaproval or distaste for them in any way--which is what the term "slut shaming" implies. I won't call KK a slut--but I will call her that slime of sweat and dead skin that accumulates between your toes when you wear shoes with no socks on a hot day.
  #62  
Old 11-21-2019, 06:44 AM
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I won't call you a SJW, but I will say that I don't agree with the nihilistic attitude that any and all actions are equal in worth and value and morality, therefore, you can't express disaproval or distaste for them in any way--which is what the term "slut shaming" implies
That's preposterous.

All it says is that, of the category of things one can legitimately express disapproval or distaste for, some random woman's level of sexuality should not be one of them. There's nothing "nihilistic" about that, and it does not imply "all actions are equal in worth and value and morality".

I have plenty of actions I have no problem expressing distaste and disapproval for. And if this were a different forum, I'd be starting round about now...
  #63  
Old 11-21-2019, 12:02 PM
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All it says is that, of the category of things one can legitimately express disapproval or distaste for, some random woman's level of sexuality should not be one of them.
Why not? What makes you the arbiter of which moral judgements people are allowed to express and which they aren't? Are people allowed to voice disapproval at male promiscuity, or is that verboten, too?
  #64  
Old 11-21-2019, 01:35 PM
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Why not?
Because it's a shitty thing to do. Can't really help you if you can't see why that is.
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What makes you the arbiter of which moral judgements people are allowed to express and which they aren't?
LOL at the thought that it's just me.
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Are people allowed to voice disapproval at male promiscuity, or is that verboten, too?
Are you asking if men can be slutshamed too? I'd say yes, but there's a different history to it so it doesn't really carry the same weight, now does it?.

Last edited by MrDibble; 11-21-2019 at 01:36 PM.
  #65  
Old 11-21-2019, 04:15 PM
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Again, how is calling the tape porn "shaming"? Did I say that there was anything wrong with porn?

And if she was on the rise as a celebrity before that: For what? The vast majority of people had never heard of her before that tape.
  #66  
Old 11-21-2019, 04:22 PM
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Because it's a shitty thing to do. Can't really help you if you can't see why that is.
If finding the Kardashians repulsive is wrong I don't wanna be right.
  #67  
Old 11-21-2019, 06:12 PM
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In a recent appearance on The Late Show with James Corden, Kanye West said he received a 68 Million tax refund:
Actually the cite you listed didn't say tax refund. It said tax return.

In the article he talks about how he made $115m last year but was $35m in debt.

He's not the most articulate person in the world. It looks like he's saying he's $68 million on the plus side this year. What's the expression for that? Your line 37? I forget.
  #68  
Old 11-21-2019, 07:31 PM
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Yeah! Just because he likes fish sticks??
It's more than that. He likes to put fish sticks in his mouth.
  #69  
Old 11-22-2019, 12:12 AM
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Again, how is calling the tape porn "shaming"? Did I say that there was anything wrong with porn?
Oh, I was unaware that you were so far outside of society that you were completely innocent of the common perceptions of porn in it. My bad.
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And if she was on the rise as a celebrity before that: For what?
For having famous, rich father(s), and wearing nice clothes, and hanging out with other Hollywood socialites, like Paris Hilton and Lindsay Lohan.
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The vast majority of people had never heard of her before that tape.
You're aware her reality show was in production before the tape surfaced, right? Believe me, the Kardashians were going to be a thing, tape or no. That's just the nature of how the TV landscape was changing towards reality shows.
  #70  
Old 11-22-2019, 12:14 AM
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If finding the Kardashians repulsive is wrong I don't wanna be right.
It's possible to find them repulsive and not slutshame them or mischaracterise their activities. Ask me how i know this...
  #71  
Old 11-22-2019, 07:09 AM
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OK, then. Last year, there was a woman who was making the news a lot due to various allegations concerning President Trump. Most of the news stories referred to her as "porn star Stormy Daniels". Were they slut-shaming Ms. Daniels?

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You're aware her reality show was in production before the tape surfaced, right?
Yes, because they knew that she was about to become famous enough to support such a show. Which she wasn't, before the porn tape. That's evidence that the whole thing was orchestrated, not that it wasn't.
  #72  
Old 11-22-2019, 07:31 AM
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OK, then. Last year, there was a woman who was making the news a lot due to various allegations concerning President Trump. Most of the news stories referred to her as "porn star Stormy Daniels". Were they slut-shaming Ms. Daniels?
Are you joking?

Daniels was an actual, professional porn actress.

And note that calling KK a porn star is only part of what makes your posts slutshaming.

But by all means, continue to double down. I'm sure I'm not the only one interested in your views. Certainly throws many an ATMB thread into a new light
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Yes, because they knew that she was about to become famous enough to support such a show.
She had foreknowledge that a leak by someone else was going to happen a year before it did, is what you're saying. With absolutely zero evidence.
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Which she wasn't, before the porn tape.
I think it's obvious you have less than zero understanding of how reality TV works. There are scores of people famous for nothing but being on reality TV shows. They weren't famous before, either. Kim had already been appearing on TV, and in the pap rags.She was not some nobody.
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That's evidence that the whole thing was orchestrated, not that it wasn't.
What, that time travel had to be involved? Sure, whatever you say...*backs away slowly*

Last edited by MrDibble; 11-22-2019 at 07:34 AM.
  #73  
Old 11-22-2019, 07:45 AM
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Stormy Daniels and Kim Kardassian are both women who found it lucrative to deliberately release videos of themselves having sex. Therefore they are both porn actresses. It is no more shameful for one than it is for the other.

And yes, of course she knew that someone else was going to leak the tape, because she arranged with the leaker for it to happen.
  #74  
Old 11-22-2019, 08:03 AM
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But by all means, continue to double down. I'm sure I'm not the only one interested in your views.
And I'm sure that I'm not the only one rolling my eyes at yours.
  #75  
Old 11-22-2019, 08:21 AM
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Stormy Daniels and Kim Kardassian are both women who found it lucrative to deliberately release videos of themselves having sex.
That is not true. Kim Kardashian did not release her own tape.

I don't see why you think it helps your case to be spreading a falsehood like that.
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And yes, of course she knew that someone else was going to leak the tape, because she arranged with the leaker for it to happen
Where's your evidence for this?
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And I'm sure that I'm not the only one rolling my eyes at yours.
Believe me, eyerolls from the likes of you definitely help. Roll them harder!

Last edited by MrDibble; 11-22-2019 at 08:25 AM.
  #76  
Old 11-22-2019, 08:37 AM
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Believe me, eyerolls from the likes of you definitely help. Roll them harder!
Believe me, I am.
  #77  
Old 11-22-2019, 11:58 AM
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I'm trying to understand the logic behind 'she's wildly popular because of her wildly popular sex tape that was wildly popular because she was a nobody.'
  #78  
Old 11-22-2019, 03:32 PM
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As opposed to what other reason she's wildly popular?
  #79  
Old 11-22-2019, 04:02 PM
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Why are any of the Real Housewives of New York, Hollywood, Atlanta and East Bumfuck popular? Or why were the cast of Jersey Shore popular? Or those fake bearded yokels who make duck calls?

Because people saw them on the gogglebox.
  #80  
Old 11-22-2019, 05:00 PM
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And none of them got the show named after them. With those shows, they came up with some premise, then looked around and made casting calls to find people to put on the show. Nobody went to a producer and said "Hey, let's make a show about Dolores!". You only do that if the person is already famous before the show. Or you expect them to become so. Because of, say, a widely-popularized sex tape. The whole thing makes no sense whatsoever if it wasn't all orchestrated.
  #81  
Old 11-22-2019, 09:50 PM
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Wikipedia says the sex tape was filmed in 2002, released in 2007, and then later that year in 2007 they started production on her show.

I dunno, I think I have to go with Chronos on this one. Not a fan of slut-shaming, so I'm with MrDibble on that score, but I think it strains credulity to assert the sex tape didn't play a big factor in her getting a reality show.

However, she did have a level fame years before the sex tape was released. From the wikipedia page on Keeping Up with the Kardashians, it says:

Quote:
The Kardashian sisters began appearing in the media spotlight more often. In the early 2000s Kim worked as a personal assistant for hotel heiress and reality TV star, Paris Hilton.[13] During her employment for Hilton, Kim briefly developed a very close friendship with Hilton during a high point in Hilton's fame. This friendship helped boost Kim's personal fame by allowing her to occasionally appear in episodes of Hilton's TV show The Simple Life. Furthermore, Kim and Hilton's close friendship ensured that Kim would appear in public, notably in paparazzi shots, with Hilton. Kim also worked for several other celebrities in the early 2000s, further boosting her fame and connections.[14] Notably, in 2004, Kim became a personal stylist for singer Brandy Norwood. She eventually developed into a full-time stylist, and was a personal shopper and stylist for actress and singer Lindsay Lohan.[15]
- Paris Hilton's personal assistant, occasionally appearing on Hilton's reality show
- Stylist for Lyndsay Lohan
- Frequently in paparazzi photos with them
- Daughter of one of the lawyers who got OJ off

I gotta say, the above list seems like sufficient grounds to try out a reality show with her. To say she wasn't famous at all until the tape was released is simply not true.

Also, the assertion that you don't name a reality show after a complete nobody is false. Ever hear of "Here Comes Honey Boo Boo"?



In the end, I think it's pretty clear the sex tape helped get the show off the ground, but I don't think having a sex tape was a requirement to greenlight a show based on her.

Last edited by Ellis Dee; 11-22-2019 at 09:52 PM.
  #82  
Old 11-23-2019, 02:13 AM
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Wikipedia says the sex tape was filmed in 2002, released in 2007, and then later that year in 2007 they started production on her show.
Did you miss where they started production/test shooting for KUWTK in 2006?
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I dunno, I think I have to go with Chronos on this one. Not a fan of slut-shaming, so I'm with MrDibble on that score, but I think it strains credulity to assert the sex tape didn't play a big factor in her getting a reality show.
I would not dispute that it contributed greatly to the early popularity of the show. To think different would be stupid.

But that's not the same thing as her getting the show in the first place.

The Kardashians were going to get a reality show, sex tape or no. That's just the way TV was going, and the way the family was already placed to take advantage, and the ambitions of its family members (especially Kim and Kris). Hell, one other sister besides Kim was already in a reality show before KUWTK. The trend was clear.
Quote:
However, she did have a level fame years before the sex tape was released.[...]

I gotta say, the above list seems like sufficient grounds to try out a reality show with her.
That was certainly what Ryan Seacrest thought.

In 2006.

I'm sure in Chronos' mind, Kim showed him the tape then and that's why he wanted to make a show with them. But he'll never admit it, just make up some clearly bullshit story of "Hollywood networking", like that was a real thing.
Quote:
Also, the assertion that you don't name a reality show after a complete nobody is false. Ever hear of "Here Comes Honey Boo Boo"?
Also, KUWTK is modelled on The Osbournes, of course they used a title with the name in it.

And he's wrong about Duck Dynasty in any case, that show was built around the specific family. Sure, it isn't named after them, but it is named after their product.

Last edited by MrDibble; 11-23-2019 at 02:18 AM.
  #83  
Old 11-23-2019, 02:22 AM
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Did you miss where they started production/test shooting for KUWTK in 2006?
Sorry, I meant development, not production, there.
  #84  
Old 11-23-2019, 05:28 AM
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Also, KUWTK is modelled on The Osbournes, of course they used a title with the name in it.
Ozzy Osbourne was already famous. Chronos' point is that you only get a reality show in your name if you're already famous or if you're clearly about to be, like from a sex tape.

Here Comes Honey Boo-Boo refutes that position. The Osbournes and Duck Dynasty do not.

EDIT: And yeah, I only very briefly skimmed that wikipedia page looking for dates, then ran across that paragraph. I didn't look further, so correction noted.

Last edited by Ellis Dee; 11-23-2019 at 05:29 AM.
  #85  
Old 11-23-2019, 06:56 AM
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Ozzy Osbourne was already famous. Chronos' point is that you only get a reality show in your name if you're already famous or if you're clearly about to be, like from a sex tape.
Kim K herself wasn't necessarily famous yet (although on the way up), but the name Kardashian was already rather well known, I'd say.What producer wouldn't use that in naming their show?

Last edited by MrDibble; 11-23-2019 at 06:57 AM.
  #86  
Old 11-23-2019, 07:42 AM
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Agreed completely.
  #87  
Old 11-23-2019, 08:05 AM
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Well, yes, the Kardashians make money for clothed appearances, too, but only because they're famous. And so far as anyone can determine, they're famous for doing porn videos.
Nonsense. They're famous for the reality-TV show Keeping Up with the Kardashians, which even I have heard of although I've never seen it, and if even I have heard of some pop-culture phenomenon then it pretty much has to be famous. And KUWTK does not include porn videos.

You could hypothesize that KUWTK would never have been so successful if Kim Kardashian hadn't been in the public eye due to her sex tape, but that's goalpost-shifting. The Kardashians get most of their attention and money via non-pornographic forms of show business and associated marketing.

I don't have much of an opinion about porn one way or the other, but ISTM that if somebody is deliberately trying to exaggerate the role that porn or porn-like activities play in some (female) celebrity's money and fame, that comes across as a bit misogynistic. It's rather reminiscent of the late-of-this-Board Starving Artist's eternal allusions to Beyonce as a "leg-spreading" pop star: the explicitly sexy stuff that apparently makes up such a large part of your personal perception of her is not actually the major part of her professional activities.

Last edited by Kimstu; 11-23-2019 at 08:06 AM.
  #88  
Old 11-23-2019, 08:53 AM
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Beyonce is famous mostly because she's a really good dancer, along with being a good enough singer. Even if you're not sexually attracted to her, you can watch her performances and see good dancing. There's no comparable talent that Kim Kardashian has, other than her talent at self-promotion.
  #89  
Old 11-23-2019, 09:27 AM
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There's no comparable talent that Kim Kardashian has, other than her talent at self-promotion.
To be famous, nothing more than that is required. It's like I said earlier, you don't seem to grok how fame works nowadays in the reality TV and influencer era.

Last edited by MrDibble; 11-23-2019 at 09:29 AM.
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