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Old 01-17-2020, 09:59 PM
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Thread for Richmond Gun Rally Mon. Jan. 20


Figured the pit would be the likliest forum for this potato, given that things could get really sketchy. Lots of militia groups and a number of hate groups will be descending on the the city, and Virginia Gov. Ralph Northam declared a state of emergency for that day.


Already some scary related shenanigans

Quote:
The unease increased after the F.B.I. announced the arrest on Thursday of three armed men suspected of being members of a neo-Nazi hate group, including a former Canadian Army reservist, who had obtained weapons and discussed participating in the Richmond rally. The men were linked to the Base, a group that aims to create a white ethnostate, according to the F.B.I.
Quote:
The Base's members use encrypted chat rooms to discuss their supremacist agenda, the FBI says. According to court documents, the extremists frequently discuss topics such as "recruitment, creating a white ethno-state, committing acts of violence against minority communities (including African-Americans and Jewish-Americans), the organization's military-style training camps, and ways to make improvised explosive devices."
my bold

Quote:
Additionally, three other men associated with the Base being tracked by the F.B.I. were arrested on Thursday by the authorities in Georgia. Officials said they were plotting to kill a couple belonging to the loose affiliation of radical activists known as antifa.
Hey what could go wrong with this thing, right?
  #2  
Old 01-17-2020, 10:15 PM
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Trump is urging everyone to remain calm and reasonable about this.



Okay, kidding. Trump is egging them on.
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Old 01-17-2020, 11:03 PM
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It's worth noting that "The Base" is the English translation of Al Qaeda.
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Old 01-17-2020, 11:08 PM
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So, what should we do?
Root for all reasonable Virginians to take to their basements as the state government melts down to their socks all Alt-Right gun-toting NAZIs by low yield atmospheric nuclear weapons?

( Effective in exterminating vermin, true, but is it worth the radioactive half-life? )
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Old 01-18-2020, 01:19 AM
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So, what should we do?
Have police monitor the event. Arrest anyone who breaks the law but allow those who assemble peacefully to do so. And use it as an opportunity to identify members of these organizations.
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Old 01-18-2020, 01:26 AM
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Might as well put a face(s) to scumbaggery.

Quote:
Tabb said the three men arrested in Delaware and Maryland on Thursday "definitely had an intent" to travel and attack the Richmond rally. He did not specify the Georgia men's intent regarding Richmond, and the [Base raid] Wisconsin case had not yet been made public when he spoke Friday.
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Old 01-18-2020, 05:17 AM
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Have police monitor the event. Arrest anyone who breaks the law but allow those who assemble peacefully to do so. And use it as an opportunity to identify members of these organizations.
I look forward to mass arrests. Maybe a good knock-down all-out riot but hopefully without any shootings or murders (I know, implausible for this particular rally). Tear gas all around and pepper spray galore! Just like our beloved Vietnam War riots on college campuses in the late 1960's and early 1970's!

I look forward to mass convictions on various felony counts. Every one of them will then become ineligible to own or possess firearms ever again!
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Old 01-18-2020, 08:52 AM
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A gun rally on MLK Jr. day! What a happy racist coincidence!
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Old 01-18-2020, 09:46 AM
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Trump is urging everyone to remain calm and reasonable about this.



Okay, kidding. Trump is egging them on.
From the quoted tweet in the link above -

Quote:
Your 2nd Amendment is under very serious attack in the Great Commonwealth of Virginia. That’s what happens when you vote for Democrats, they will take your guns away. Republicans will win Virginia in 2020. Thank you Dems!

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) January 17, 2020
Spelling, punctuation and sentence structure looks... ok. Commonwealth of Virginia? I wonder who wrote that for him? Maybe Miller.
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Old 01-18-2020, 11:14 AM
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Here's an explainer on the rally: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/17/u...explainer.html (not paywalled for me, but maybe I'm still under my limit for free views this month)

I haven't heard much about large scale counter protests. I assume there will be some. Does anybody have any information on numbers of people expected, on either side?
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Old 01-18-2020, 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Defensive Indifference View Post
I haven't heard much about large scale counter protests. I assume there will be some. Does anybody have any information on numbers of people expected, on either side?

I can’t find a link other than tweets about it, but the head of Moms Demand has asked their members to stay away and “focus on phone banking” that day. I’m guessing there won’t be many organized groups counter protesting.




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Old 01-18-2020, 11:56 AM
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I wonder what effect having no one show up for this protest other than the protesters have? No bystanders, no counter-protesters, just empty streets and no news coverage other than, "no one thought these people were important enough to pay attention to".

Except, come to think of it, they'd probably start crowing that everyone was so scared of them they didn't dare show their faces.

Maybe use the same tactics that the anti-fox hunters do. Air horns and the like. Maybe toss glitter bombs and salt-water balloons at them. (Salt water to ensure the water in the balloons doesn't freeze, since ice-filled balloons could cause harm and the whole point would be to harass without actual harm.)
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Old 01-18-2020, 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by bobot View Post
A gun rally on MLK Jr. day! What a happy racist coincidence!
They probably wanted to schedule the rally on a holiday so they could all take a day off from their jobs.

No...wait...none of these losers has a job.
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Old 01-18-2020, 02:22 PM
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I can’t find a link other than tweets about it, but the head of Moms Demand has asked their members to stay away and “focus on phone banking” that day. I’m guessing there won’t be many organized groups counter protesting.
Thanks. On the one hand, I'd like to see a huge turnout by counter protesters so the gun nuts don't get to claim their opposition was too scared to come out. On the other hand, I think they're itching for a fight, and I don't want another Charlottesville.

I read that some right wing extremists are hoping this march will provide the "boogaloo", i.e., an event that sparks a civil war. How serious or influential those people are, I have no idea.

A Democratic governor who survived a blackface scandal might end up having to fend off a violent attack from a right wing mob egged on by the President. What a time to be alive.
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Old 01-18-2020, 04:29 PM
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Not usually one to commend the FBI, but kudos to them so far. I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that the more and more the FBI shows successful efforts at heading off at the pass any potential far right threats, the more and more I could see President Golightly tweetstorming about about SAD FBI CRUSH CITIZEN'S RIGHTS TO FREE SPEECH or CORRUPT FBI OUT TO TAKE AWAY OUR GUNS.

I dunno, a fair-minded chap can always cynically speculate now and then.

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Old 01-18-2020, 06:11 PM
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Good to hear those rat turds got arrested. Who calls themselves "the base" anyway? What do they think they are anyway, a kilo of sodium hydroxide?
-Egomaniacal Dumbasses. They deserve what they got, and then some.
Maybe they can join Trump's illustrious defense team..
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Old 01-18-2020, 06:34 PM
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Who calls themselves "the base" anyway? What do they think they are anyway, a kilo of sodium hydroxide?
When I was taking organic chemistry, I also worked at a restaurant and heard the manager say he was pouring some acid down the drain. The bottle was clearly marked "SODIUM HYDROXIDE" and I decided not to tell him that he was wrong, and why.

But you'd think people would WANT to be there, since it will be the safest place on earth with all the guns around!
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Old 01-18-2020, 09:31 PM
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As has been pointed out, "The Base" is the English translation of "Al Qaeda".
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Old 01-18-2020, 10:22 PM
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A gun rally on MLK Jr. day! What a happy racist coincidence!
It's Lobby Day in Virginia, when Virginians traditionally go to Richmond to lobby their legislators.
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Old 01-18-2020, 10:32 PM
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I wonder what effect having no one show up for this protest other than the protesters have? No bystanders, no counter-protesters, just empty streets and no news coverage other than, "no one thought these people were important enough to pay attention to".

Except, come to think of it, they'd probably start crowing that everyone was so scared of them they didn't dare show their faces.

Maybe use the same tactics that the anti-fox hunters do. Air horns and the like. Maybe toss glitter bombs and salt-water balloons at them. (Salt water to ensure the water in the balloons doesn't freeze, since ice-filled balloons could cause harm and the whole point would be to harass without actual harm.)
Making them play to no audience does sound appealing, but I really would get a kick out of having that tuba player from the white supremacists’ march show up...
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Old 01-18-2020, 10:34 PM
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It's Lobby Day in Virginia, when Virginians traditionally go to Richmond to lobby their legislators.
That's interesting, I did not know that. What other groups are lobbying that day, do you know?

Last edited by bobot; 01-18-2020 at 10:34 PM.
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Old 01-18-2020, 10:41 PM
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That's interesting, I did not know that. What other groups are lobbying that day, do you know?
No, I haven't seen a list of events.
  #23  
Old 01-18-2020, 11:43 PM
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It's Lobby Day in Virginia, when Virginians traditionally go to Richmond to lobby their legislators.
That weekend also coincides with Lee-Jackson Day. It is no longer an official holiday, but it used to be a Virginian holiday to celebrate Robert E. Lee and Stonewall Jackson and pinned to MLK weekend. Some people (you can imagine the type) still celebrate it.
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Old 01-18-2020, 11:49 PM
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They probably wanted to schedule the rally on a holiday so they could all take a day off from their jobs.

No...wait...none of these losers has a job.
They probably all (or mostly) live as far off the grid as possible.

This is one rally where I wouldn't mind seeing the Phelps family do a protest. (Do they still do that?)
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Old 01-19-2020, 03:57 AM
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They probably all (or mostly) live as far off the grid as possible...
Not really. One of the reasons those guys in Georgia were plotting to kill a couple was because the couple kept outing white nationalists and they keep getting fired from their jobs.
  #26  
Old 01-19-2020, 12:39 PM
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Following article goes into chilling detail on what the suspects planned.

(make sure to click on "story continues" at bottom of link)
  #27  
Old 01-19-2020, 12:58 PM
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From the article:

Quote:
The arrests came just one day after three alleged members of The Base were arrested in Delaware and Maryland — including 27-year-old Patrik Mathews. The Manitoba man had been missing for nearly five months, ever since he was accused of recruiting for a global neo-Nazi group, while at the same time serving in Canada's army reserves.

Mathews is believed to be connected to the group arrested in Georgia, based on an affidavit used to secure the arrest warrants, which was released by the Floyd County police.

It describes an unnamed member of The Base who "crossed into the United States illegally."
Apparently, Canada is not sending us their best people. Can we build a wall?
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Old 01-19-2020, 06:09 PM
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Great, now they're breathing down the cops' necks.

Quote:
There have been threats on law enforcement posted on their official social media sites in the last 24 hours, according to an official with the Virginia State Police. The threats have appeared on social media pages of the Richmond Police Department as well as the Virginia State Police.
The threats, which are considered credible by law enforcement, come from mainstream channels and alternative dark web ones used by violent groups and white nationalists from outside of Virginia, according to Northam. The governor added "the conversations are fueled by misinformation and conspiracy theories."
  #29  
Old 01-19-2020, 06:25 PM
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I find myself thinking about a big ole Nazi type rally a while back that involved those of politically extreme views and Tiki torches.

A number of these individuals wound up being photographed, videoed, filmed, and suchlike, and as a result suffered unpleasant consequences... lost jobs, social ostracism, and suchlike.

I wonder if any of them will wear masks this time?
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Old 01-19-2020, 06:37 PM
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I find myself thinking about a big ole Nazi type rally a while back that involved those of politically extreme views and Tiki torches.

A number of these individuals wound up being photographed, videoed, filmed, and suchlike, and as a result suffered unpleasant consequences... lost jobs, social ostracism, and suchlike.

I wonder if any of them will wear masks this time?
Dunno, but apparently the conspiracy to commit murder dudes were doing so because the planned victims had a habit of video taping white supremacist rallies, figuring out who the participants were, and outing them, leading to many of the idiots getting fired.
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Old 01-19-2020, 06:40 PM
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Dunno, but apparently the conspiracy to commit murder dudes were doing so because the planned victims had a habit of video taping white supremacist rallies, figuring out who the participants were, and outing them, leading to many of the idiots getting fired.
That seems counterintuitive. If they don't want attention, why are they holding a rally? Are they not expecting the news media to be there? Photographers? Videographers? Cameramen?

Or is everyone just supposed to be awed and frightened and then go home? I don't get it.
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Old 01-19-2020, 07:02 PM
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Maybe not so racist after all:

Antifa Group Marches with 2nd Amendment Protestors

Quote:
While Antifa groups are most famous for sometimes-violent protests against right-wing groups, the Richmond-based Antifa Seven Hills is joining 2nd Amendment supporters in support of gun rights.

“I think it’s been pretty important for us to focus on the fact that gun control in America has a legacy of racist enforcement,” Seven Hills spokesperson James told Vice, requesting that his last name be withheld from publication. “Like taking guns away from black people, because black people were perceived as a threat to property and the sanctity of the state.”
Lots of black people have noticed the historically racist intent of many gun laws. From prohibition against blacks owning guns post-reconstruction to 'Saturday Night Special' laws that kept guns out of the hands of poor black people while allowing rich white people to keep their expensive guns, there has often been racist intent in gun laws.

And smart people notice that it's oppressed minorities who need the right to self-defense the most.
  #33  
Old 01-19-2020, 07:18 PM
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Trump is desperate for a big story that will distract from his impeachment trial---and perhaps more importantly, from the impressive stream of new information about his 'let's keep this secret' activities and those of his henchmen.

Being so desperate for a big distraction, he is bound to have communicated this priority to many in his circle. In coming hours he may become ever more explicit about this desire, to his Twitter followers. Someone is going to want to provide him with what he craves so anxiously.

I fear significant violence tomorrow, which is likely to include loss of life.
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Old 01-19-2020, 07:35 PM
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Trump is desperate for a big story that will distract from his impeachment trial---and perhaps more importantly, from the impressive stream of new information about his 'let's keep this secret' activities and those of his henchmen.

Being so desperate for a big distraction, he is bound to have communicated this priority to many in his circle. In coming hours he may become ever more explicit about this desire, to his Twitter followers. Someone is going to want to provide him with what he craves so anxiously.

I fear significant violence tomorrow, which is likely to include loss of life.
Don't know that you're wrong. But the stink clung to him from the LAST rally, as well as his "very fine people on both sides" quote.

Don't know that this one will be any different, aside from making it clear that the lives of his believers and unbelievers alike are disposable to him as long as his purposes are served.
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Old 01-19-2020, 08:01 PM
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Maybe not so racist after all:

Antifa Group Marches with 2nd Amendment Protestors



Lots of black people have noticed the historically racist intent of many gun laws. From prohibition against blacks owning guns post-reconstruction to 'Saturday Night Special' laws that kept guns out of the hands of poor black people while allowing rich white people to keep their expensive guns, there has often been racist intent in gun laws.

And smart people notice that it's oppressed minorities who need the right to self-defense the most.

White supremacists, antifa, and minorities all marching at a gun rally.

I cannot see any way this could go badly.
  #36  
Old 01-19-2020, 08:03 PM
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  #37  
Old 01-19-2020, 08:07 PM
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Maybe not so racist after all:

Antifa Group Marches with 2nd Amendment Protestors



Lots of black people have noticed the historically racist intent of many gun laws. From prohibition against blacks owning guns post-reconstruction to 'Saturday Night Special' laws that kept guns out of the hands of poor black people while allowing rich white people to keep their expensive guns, there has often been racist intent in gun laws.

And smart people notice that it's oppressed minorities who need the right to self-defense the most.
Your link provides no evidence that black people will be marching with these Charlottesville Nazi-types.
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Old 01-19-2020, 08:43 PM
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Antifa activists advise supporters to stay away from the rally, citing serious safety concerns
  #39  
Old 01-19-2020, 09:25 PM
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If Antifa Seven Hills trumpet the following (in boldface) in their website ...

Quote:
We do not want to provide nazi cops with paid vacation. But one less pig on the streets is one less murderer patrolling around flashing their badge and gun.
...then plonk they kinda get the dunk tank with the other assholes. Gee, so reassuring that this slightest fucking sliver* of this probable debacle, tomorrow, will be technically "not so racist", in some quite likely misguidedly firearm-fuelled manner, I'll beh-eh-eh-et.

Granted, I obviously hope to turn out to be completely dead wrong in this view, and that even this somewhat niche, here, (if it really does materlize) will comport themselves in a civil manner tomorrow, but, you know what?
Doubt it!

*No - no idea, at all, what their exact numbers will be, but safe to say that (after it all comes out in the wash Tue. morn.) that there's no gaurantee, at all, that they'll be big players, there.
  #40  
Old 01-19-2020, 09:47 PM
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Seven Hills Antifa responds:
Quote:
There has been some understandable confusion and concern raised by an article published by Vice News yesterday. We are releasing this statement now to clarify our intentions for the interview.

We have spent the past day attempting to get the author and editors to amend the article to more accurately reflect what was discussed. They took great liberties in the piece that do not accurately portray our intentions. Their response has been poor and shows a lack of understanding or care for the seriousness of what is at hand.

Many folks have read this article, or possibly just the headline, and come to the conclusion that we are choosing to march with Neo-Nazis and Klansmen on Monday. This was and never will be the case. We are forever in opposition to these groups.

It is our group’s stated mission to keep these groups from having footholds in Richmond and beyond. There are many racists and fascists planning on attending “2A lobby day rally” on January 20th, at a steadily increasing rate since this bill emerged in November. We anticipated their efforts to recruit from the 2A movement, as has already been happening, and saw this as an important point to intervene since we oppose this legislation. We recognize how many in the movement, especially due to the projections of law enforcement, bear extreme prejudice towards Richmond and its residents, in the equation of “Democratic strongholds.” We understand the many racist, homophobic, transphobic, and misogynistic remarks that abound in the river of online comments on these issues. Reading through and digesting these conversations is a reality of the work we engage in. We see it as our place to endure this, to be able to peer further into the void. In no way does this mean we seek to make alliances with those who wish violence and terror upon those most vulnerable.
I know it's a body-blow to even imagine that National Review might misrepresent both Antifa and a bunch of white supremacists in order to prop up a gun rights rally, but I trust you'll be able to recover in time, Sam.
  #41  
Old 01-19-2020, 09:51 PM
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Maybe not so racist after all:

Antifa Group Marches with 2nd Amendment Protestors



Lots of black people have noticed the historically racist intent of many gun laws. From prohibition against blacks owning guns post-reconstruction to 'Saturday Night Special' laws that kept guns out of the hands of poor black people while allowing rich white people to keep their expensive guns, there has often been racist intent in gun laws.

And smart people notice that it's oppressed minorities who need the right to self-defense the most.
The Antifa group mentioned in that article does support gun rights, but they have issued a statement that their position on this March was mischaracterized.

Quote:
We never indicated we were attending as a group, nor did we make any call to action for folks to engage in the way that is being purported. We have monitored this situation closely for weeks and found it to be increasingly dangerous. We spoke to the fact that several leftist gun groups are coming as they’ve stated so publicly. We only spoke to opportunities of counter-recruitment for libertarian and rural folks who don’t normally have access to leftist armed positions and of which the far right intends to recruit from. Many of these same folks have been disgusted to hear of white nationalist planned attendance and vowed to help us get rid of that element. We never announced what capacity we planned on attending and wouldn’t readily make statements like that for an extremely tense situation where the terrain changes daily. We certainly never said we would march with the far right, nor did we ever say we would march at all.
https://antifa7hills.blackblogs.org/

I'd never heard of this group before. But about 6 seconds of Googling revealed that the National Review, predictably, didn't do a good job reporting this.

::shakes fist at LHOD::

Last edited by Defensive Indifference; 01-19-2020 at 09:54 PM.
  #42  
Old 01-19-2020, 09:52 PM
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On the bloody morning after, how many tin soldiers will ride away?
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Old 01-19-2020, 11:06 PM
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To go a bit against the grain here, I think while there will be a turnout, it will not be as many as they think, and while there will be much bold talk and flourishing of weapons, there will be no significant violence in Richmond tomorrow.

For one, there has been so much forewarning that the cops will be prepared and in large numbers and most of these guys (and it is, IMHO, mostly guys) really are not looking for a confrontation with armed officers; they want to yell and shout and act rowdy but not too rowdy...

Because in the end they do not have what it takes to be revolutionaries. They are not that smart, they are not as organized as one thinks (despite the advantages of twitter and other social media), and despite their talk, they are not going to start an uprising where a large number of them are likely to be shot.

Best I can describe them is that they are the modern version of the Copperheads. To give a very brief history (you can google for much more), this was a movement to end the Civil War by taking over the Northern government or splitting the Western states (in this case Ohio, Indiana, Michigan, etc., into an independent nation itself). They held mass rallies, elected Congressmen (see Clement Vallandigham) and took over state legislatures, and talked pretty big at the time....but never steeled themselves to do something that the ruthless men in Washington (and Lincoln, for all his whimsy, was one of the most ruthless men ever in the White House when it came to reaching his goals) would react to violently.

I could be wrong. But there has been actions before (Ruby Ridge, Oklahoma City, those nuts in the Park out west) that called for mass support--and got virtually nada.

My prediction is the same as those. Much sound and fury, but in the end signifying nothing.

IMHO as always. YMMV.

Last edited by The Stainless Steel Rat; 01-19-2020 at 11:08 PM.
  #44  
Old 01-19-2020, 11:21 PM
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Not to overly detract from the ongoing conversation or its real-world seriousness, I found this paragraph from the news link in Post 26 of this thread to be darkly hilarious, particularly the final sentence:

"Although the document suggests the group member believed to be Mathews stayed with a Georgia cell member for months, he is later reportedly characterized as "incompetent" and "stupid" and is seen as a liability to the local group. In fact, he eventually becomes a new potential murder target."
  #45  
Old 01-20-2020, 12:19 AM
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I think that now there have been some arrests, the would-be militia are probably going to play it safe and either not show or show but keep themselves in check. But had it not been for law enforcement apprehension of these homegrown traitors, this could have been ugly. We're lucky in the sense that these guys were stupid: they wanted attention. I worry about the rabid ideologue who isn't just talking shit to get his mug spread on the internet but actually wants to wreck people and doesn't care whether he's famous or not.
  #46  
Old 01-20-2020, 01:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sherrerd View Post
Trump is desperate for a big story that will distract from his impeachment trial---and perhaps more importantly, from the impressive stream of new information about his 'let's keep this secret' activities and those of his henchmen.

Being so desperate for a big distraction, he is bound to have communicated this priority to many in his circle. In coming hours he may become ever more explicit about this desire, to his Twitter followers. Someone is going to want to provide him with what he craves so anxiously.

I fear significant violence tomorrow, which is likely to include loss of life.
I gotta tell you, I don't think this is true. Trump is an idiot. He doesn't want distractions from the impeachment. He wants to crush those who dare impeach him, or at least, tweet a bunch of schoolboy taunts. Inevitably, a different news story comes along at some point and gets our attention because that's how news works. Then people endow Trump with a caginess his pea brain doesn't have and claim he found a clever way to distract from the impeachment or whatever we're all ticked about.
  #47  
Old 01-20-2020, 03:51 AM
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Making them play to no audience does sound appealing, but I really would get a kick out of having that tuba player from the white supremacists’ march show up...
Alternate camera angle:

https://youtu.be/XZvWvfCSZ8M
__________________
It's chaos. Be kind.
  #48  
Old 01-20-2020, 09:19 AM
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https://wtvr.com/2020/01/20/gun-righ...mond-virginia/

A lot of people there.
  #49  
Old 01-20-2020, 09:44 AM
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God look at those little weirdos playing dress up.
  #50  
Old 01-20-2020, 09:58 AM
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But Alex Jones is there, I'm sure he'll provide a calming influence. (He's also in the gun free zone, maybe he's a bit concerned?)
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