Straight Dope Message Board

[wolfman]

I logged in today for the first time in a couple months, but it looks like my camp was disappeared, along with my power armor. 251

[Dr. Strangelove]

Originally Posted by Raza

And the new (optional, of course) battle royale mode is being very well received, even by people not particularly a fan of PVP.

I wish I could summon up the tiniest bit of motivation to even launch F76 again, but I can't.

I'm with Balance for the most part, but I'll add another thing: F76 makes it virtually impossible to actually roleplay, except perhaps as a psychotic raider or a religious fanatic (say, a Child of Atom). All of the end-game content is centered around lobbing nukes around the landscape. How the hell am I supposed to roleplay as even a character with the stated backstory--that is, a vault dweller chosen to be "the best of the best" and then released to help rebuild civilization? Nothing I do has a permanent effect at all, and even overlooking that fact, the only thing to do in the long run is the exact opposite of what my character is sworn to do.

Not that it matters anyway, because Bethesda has done exactly nothing to enhance the solo or co-op experience. The best I can say is that (apparently--I haven't actually checked), the new PVP modes have attracted some of the griefers away from the "adventure" servers. That would be great if there were any actual content.

The F76 subreddit seems to consist of moaning about game balance, grinding, farming, optimal builds, and other metagaming crap. In short, all of the reasons I now hate MMOs and haven't played one for a decade or so. Balance is irrelevant if I'm going to be the biggest badass in the Wasteland anyway. Same thing for optimizing my character, and a huge negative impact to roleplay when I have to minmax the characteristics instead of just building the character that I want.

But hey, at least they finally shipped the canvas bags. 252

[Atamasama]

Originally Posted by bobot

https://ogn.theonion.com/e3-attendee...ion-1835376911

"Wow, OGN readers, we’ve seen some rough E3 shows in the past, but it looks like Bethesda has taken the cake with a major technical breakdown during their Sunday evening presentation. Attendees actually ended up fleeing the L.A. Convention Center in droves after a glitch in the company’s presentation resulted in a high-level deathclaw spawning right on the conference’s main floor."

“Most attendees managed to escape after the deathclaw glitched back to its original spawn point and it’s poor pathfinding caused it to get stuck behind a metal door.”

Priceless. 253

[wolfman]

Originally Posted by wolfman

I logged in today for the first time in a couple months, but it looks like my camp was disappeared, along with my power armor.

whew, I logged in again today and my camp was available as "stored", along with my power armor. 254

[Ike Witt]

Originally Posted by Miller

I opened it up to play with the helmet and marvel at how incredible crappy the nylon bag was.

You should be getting a canvas bag soon. They are supposed to ship this week. 255

[Skywatcher]

This isn't grabbing me like 4 did, which I kinda figured would happen. Still haven't found a need to build a camp yet.

I'll come back to explore from time to time. 256

[And his buzzer goes ...]

Same here, I was close to buying it after trying the free week, but didn't follow through.


The emptiness and futility of it put me off. 257

[Dr. Strangelove]

I loaded F:NV up this weekend and started a new playthrough. I had forgotten just how much was lost going from F:NV to F4, let alone F4 to F76. F4 wasn't bad, but for every improvement (graphics, base building) a few things were lost (role playability, meaningful dialogue, complex character building). Never mind that F76 is worse than F4 in just about every way. Also, Old World Blues may be my favorite DLC expansion of any game, ever. 258

[Gray Ghost]

Originally Posted by Dr. Strangelove

I loaded F:NV up this weekend and started a new playthrough. I had forgotten just how much was lost going from F:NV to F4, let alone F4 to F76. F4 wasn't bad, but for every improvement (graphics, base building) a few things were lost (role playability, meaningful dialogue, complex character building). Never mind that F76 is worse than F4 in just about every way. Also, Old World Blues may be my favorite DLC expansion of any game, ever.

I'm sure most of you have already played it, but if not, Dust is an awesome mod for New Vegas. It's a grim dark survival mod, set 20 ish years after the 2nd Battle of Hoover Dam. Hair-yankingly hard, but well thought-out, and I found the lore interesting. Of course, if you haven't played Tale of Two Wastelands, give it a try.

FO4 has an equivalent, called Frost.

New California is supposed to be a decent mod, though I've not played it.

I've still never played 4. The plot seemed silly and the roleplaying opportunities miniscule. I don't care about settlement building---if I wanted to play Minecraft, I would---and I've had enough of radiant quests since the various STALKER games. 259

[Skywatcher]

Originally Posted by Gray Ghost

I don't care about settlement building---if I wanted to play Minecraft, I would---and I've had enough of radiant quests since the various STALKER games.

None of which is required to complete the game, unless you want the Minuteman ending.

There is a mod which turns settlement building into a first-person post-apocalyptic Sim City in which you place plots and the settlers build on their own but I've never been able to get it to work right on the PC and my console version is full of other mods. 260

[gnoitall]

Originally Posted by Dr. Strangelove

I loaded F:NV up this weekend and started a new playthrough. I had forgotten just how much was lost going from F:NV to F4, let alone F4 to F76. F4 wasn't bad, but for every improvement (graphics, base building) a few things were lost (role playability, meaningful dialogue, complex character building). Never mind that F76 is worse than F4 in just about every way. Also, Old World Blues may be my favorite DLC expansion of any game, ever.

I can't make myself re-install and play FO:NV. I'm afraid it'll destroy my fondness for FO4 after I'm forcibly reminded of how badly it suffers in comparison in most RPG playability aspects. Bethesda can't write their way out of a cheap nylon bag.

The only good FO games were written by Obsidian. Which is why (slight off-topic diversion) the next Fallout title I'm buying isn't a Fallout title at all. 261

[Miller]

Originally Posted by Ike Witt

You should be getting a canvas bag soon. They are supposed to ship this week.

Nope, not for me. The bag replacement thing required you to have a receipt for the collector's edition. Since I got my copy free through work, I don't have a receipt, so I'm stuck with the crappy nylon bag.

Which, ironically enough, I've used more than the actual game. I still haven't so much as launched the game, but I did use the nylon bag as a gym bag for a couple days as a goof. 262

[Hoopy Frood]

Originally Posted by gnoitall

The only good FO games were written by Obsidian. [/URL].

Not true. The original Fallout was made by the guys who would go on to form Troika after they left Interplay. Even though FO2 had better mechanics (no more getting trapped on bridges), FO1 had a better storyline and fewer gratuitous pop-culture references. 263

[Sicks Ate]

Originally Posted by gnoitall

I can't make myself re-install and play FO:NV. I'm afraid it'll destroy my fondness for FO4 after I'm forcibly reminded of how badly it suffers in comparison in most RPG playability aspects. Bethesda can't write their way out of a cheap nylon bag.



The only good FO games were written by Obsidian. Which is why (slight off-topic diversion) the next Fallout title I'm buying isn't a Fallout title at all.

Oh man, I hadn't seen that before......can't wait to play it. 264

[Skywatcher]

Originally Posted by Sicks Ate

Oh man, I hadn't seen that before......can't wait to play it.

Likewise. Added to Steam wishlist. 265

[SenorBeef]

Originally Posted by Skywatcher

Likewise. Added to Steam wishlist.

Huh. I was going to say - it's an epic store (timed) exclusive, it shouldn't be available to put on your steam wishlist.

But it is. Using a platform to advertise a game that it won't even be available on at launch, that feels pretty scummy to me. I'm surprised steam allows it. 266

[thelurkinghorror]

Originally Posted by Hoopy Frood

Not true. The original Fallout was made by the guys who would go on to form Troika after they left Interplay. Even though FO2 had better mechanics (no more getting trapped on bridges), FO1 had a better storyline and fewer gratuitous pop-culture references.

How do you mean? Interplay published them both, they just started their new internal development studio for the second one. Same dudes were involved in whole or part: Cain, Urquhart, Boyarsky, Taylor. Avellone was new for 2.

I like 2 better in almost every way. The plot for the first game was completely missed if you spend too long dicking around (Ron Perlman: "The town of X was destroyed. The town of Y is no more. The town of Z..."), and that's par for the course in these types of games. Companion AI wasn't great in either game, but at least they didn't try to kill you as much in the second one. 267

[Sicks Ate]

Originally Posted by SenorBeef

Huh. I was going to say - it's an epic store (timed) exclusive, it shouldn't be available to put on your steam wishlist.

But it is. Using a platform to advertise a game that it won't even be available on at launch, that feels pretty scummy to me. I'm surprised steam allows it.

Um, not to start an entire hijack, but.

It will be available on Steam when it's available on Steam. You can wishlist it for when it is available. I don't see what the problem is. 268

[Gray Ghost]

Originally Posted by thelurkinghorror

How do you mean? Interplay published them both, they just started their new internal development studio for the second one. Same dudes were involved in whole or part: Cain, Urquhart, Boyarsky, Taylor. Avellone was new for 2.

I like 2 better in almost every way. The plot for the first game was completely missed if you spend too long dicking around (Ron Perlman: "The town of X was destroyed. The town of Y is no more. The town of Z..."), and that's par for the course in these types of games. Companion AI wasn't great in either game, but at least they didn't try to kill you as much in the second one.

It's been mentioned here before, but Fallout: Resurrection is a decent mod on the FO2 engine, but much more in line with FO for mood. Actually a bit grim, as many Eastern European-built mods tend to be. Worth your time though, and a neat take on the story.

I liked 2 better as well. Certainly a lot more to do. 269

[thelurkinghorror]

Originally Posted by Sicks Ate

Um, not to start an entire hijack, but.

It will be available on Steam when it's available on Steam. You can wishlist it for when it is available. I don't see what the problem is.

I'm seeing stuff that it will be Epic for ~1 year, then back on Steam in 2020 some time.

Originally Posted by Gray Ghost

It's been mentioned here before, but Fallout: Resurrection is a decent mod on the FO2 engine, but much more in line with FO for mood. Actually a bit grim, as many Eastern European-built mods tend to be. Worth your time though, and a neat take on the story.

I liked 2 better as well. Certainly a lot more to do.

Interesting. Have you played it? Is the plotting content all original, or is there some canon background lore (e.g. Caesar's Legion stuff that happened in the southwest before FNV)? 270

[Sicks Ate]

Originally Posted by thelurkinghorror

Interesting. Have you played it? Is the plotting content all original, or is there some canon background lore (e.g. Caesar's Legion stuff that happened in the southwest before FNV)?

I started to play it over the winter, didn't get very far due to no fault of the game. I think I got busy for a bit, and then I always have a hard time picking games like that back up after a break. Have to remember what's what and who's who etc.

Anyway, the icon is still on my desktop and it's been catching my eye lately. Maybe time to look at it again. 271

[Gray Ghost]

Originally Posted by thelurkinghorror

...Interesting. Have you played it? Is the plotting content all original, or is there some canon background lore (e.g. Caesar's Legion stuff that happened in the southwest before FNV)?

Played it and finished it. Set in New Mexico, between the events of FO and FO2. You are the typical guy in a cave with amnesia, but you don't have anything to do with the Vault Dweller or Chosen One. Scope is about the size of FO, a bit fewer quests. Original plot and lore. Very dingy morality throughout. Language English first not, for the writers. Ball-breakingly hard in early and mid game. 272

[Gray Ghost]

Got cut off in mid post. Anyway, it's almost adventure-game esque in how it forces you to save resources. The quests and gatekeepers for a quest chain could use more information about what you're supposed to be doing, where you can find what you need. and which quests will annoy other factions. Take notes. There's a quest guide on steam that's a lifesaver for avoiding getting stuck.

Still a neat mod, and recommended for fans of FO1 and 2. 273

[Hoopy Frood]

Originally Posted by thelurkinghorror

How do you mean? Interplay published them both, they just started their new internal development studio for the second one. Same dudes were involved in whole or part: Cain, Urquhart, Boyarsky, Taylor. Avellone was new for 2.

I was under the impression that most of FO2 was completed after Cain, Boyarsky, and Anderson left Interplay, but it seems I was mistaken. I looked into it a bit more and most of the main quests, characters, and settings were already in place by the time they had a falling out with Interplay over team structure and where the company was heading. Urquhart, Avellone, and the rest of the team who stayed with Interplay/Black Isle Studios (and would later form Obsidian when BIS was shut down) pretty much just put the finishing on the game. So it appears the game for the most part was the exact same team that did FO1.

Edit: I still think FO2 could have been a bit more streamlined, though. It seemed that there was a lot of "let's add a quest to make the game longer" stuff going on there. I felt NV actually pared that aspect down. Then again, many of the Troika guys had joined Obsidian again after Troika folded, so maybe there was a better sense of editing with the original team mostly back together.

Don't get me wrong, I've got nothing against long games and getting my money's worth, but tacking thing on for length's sake interferes with the narrative. 274

[Skywatcher]

I'm still playing 4 way more than 76. Just went into VATS to shoot three raiders through a hole in a wall, one shot per raider. Turned out they were all lined up and I took 'em all with a single .308.

Had no idea that could happen. 275

[Merneith]

Heads up -

If you bought the red power armor helmet in the Nuka-Cola branding, which was sold separately at GameStop, you should know that it's been recalled because it's full of killer mold.

The silver version of the helmet that came with the collector's edition of the game is fine. It's just this red Gamestop one that is the problem.

Here's an article about it from Polygon. They have photos of the helmets if you want to compare it to your own:
https://www.polygon.com/2019/9/24/20...et-recall-mold


Here's the product recall page at the US Consumer Safety Commission

https://www.cpsc.gov/Recalls/2019/Ch...e-Recall-Alert


And here's a quote from the Polygon article:

Originally Posted by Polygon

The helmet, produced by Chronicle Collectibles and sold online by GameStop, originally retailed for $149.99. According to unboxing videos on YouTube, the Nuka Cola-themed helmet is nearly identical to the standard gray helmet included with the Fallout 76 collector’s edition. An announcement made on the United States Consumer Product Safety Commission website warned that the inner liner of the helmet can contain dangerous levels of mold.

“Mold can be present on the fabric insert inside the helmet, posing a risk of respiratory or other infections in individuals with compromised immune systems, damaged lungs or an allergy to mold,” states the recall notice. Around 20,000 units were made.

276

[Ike Witt]

Man, I am so glad I did not buy this on-going disaster.

However, the squatted domain of Fallout First is comedy gold. 277

[Miller]

Originally Posted by Merneith

Heads up -

If you bought the red power armor helmet in the Nuka-Cola branding, which was sold separately at GameStop, you should know that it's been recalled because it's full of killer mold.

The silver version of the helmet that came with the collector's edition of the game is fine. It's just this red Gamestop one that is the problem.

Here's an article about it from Polygon. They have photos of the helmets if you want to compare it to your own:
https://www.polygon.com/2019/9/24/20...et-recall-mold

From the article, bolding mine:

Update (Sept. 25): After our article was published, a representative from Chronicle Collectibles reached out to let us know that of the 20,000 Nuka Cola-themed helmets that were manufactured, only 32 were sold. It says that all of those customers were directly notified about the recall. All 20,000 units have been recalled.

Ouch. 278

[Dr. Strangelove]

The domain squat was hilarious.

That said, the whole debacle could not be a better selling point for The Outer Worlds, which could be described approximately as "Fallout in Space," is by the maker (Obsidian) of Fallout: New Vegas, and comes out today.

The Outer Worlds comes with the Xbox Game Pass, which is $1 for the first month on the PC. Hard to beat that. 279

[Ike Witt]

Originally Posted by Dr. Strangelove

The domain squat was hilarious.

That said, the whole debacle could not be a better selling point for The Outer Worlds, which could be described approximately as "Fallout in Space," is by the maker (Obsidian) of Fallout: New Vegas, and comes out today.

The Outer Worlds comes with the Xbox Game Pass, which is $1 for the first month on the PC. Hard to beat that.

I'm waiting to download it. Both The Outer Worlds and Red Dead Redemption 2. 280

[Palooka]

The Outer Worlds is a shameless Fallout clone, but better in like every way. 281

[SenorBeef]

This game is the biggest pile of shit I can remember. There were bigger launch disappointments (No Man's Sky, for example), but at least in NMS they tried to make the game a better product as time went on.

With this game, Bethesda seems to be seeing how far they can go to fuck their customers and make something worse. Every time I hear something about this game it's some new disaster.

First, they sell a $13/mo subscription like it's an MMO. But of course there's no persistent world you're paying for, you're just getting the ability to run a private instanced server. Oh, so it's a server rental? No, it's not - the world only exists when you're around. It's not persistent. Your friends can't play when you're not around. If you leave, the whole thing shuts down. So you're paying $13 a month to be able to run what is effectively a local host (not sure if it's actually hosted in this way technically) and to expand your backpack, which is apparently a big deal in terms of convenience.

The latter part is especially disgusting - they give you an inconvenience (a fixed amount of backpack space) and then want $100+ a year to expand that limit they put on you. That's so arbitrary and such a horrible incentive system.

Okay, so that's bad enough, and greedy as shit, but of course the bad doesn't stop there with Fallout 76. Not only are they gouging their players with this ridiculousness, it doesn't even work anyway. From a reddit post:

List of issues from the article that have also been reported on the fallout 76 subreddit:

The private worlds are not private or new. Users have reported loading these new worlds to find half of the stuff has been looted already and NPC's are dead suggesting these are re-used worlds.

You cannot lock your private world so if somebody sees you are online and active they can just join your instance

Multiple players are reporting that they have deposited hundreds of units of scrap in these new boxes, only to find that the box has eaten it. The scrap disappears from the instance, and can’t be found again from re-logging or anything. It’s just gone.

The rates for scrap collection have been nerfed too

It almost feels like this game is the result of a bet between billionaires about how bad you can mistreat your player base and still get players. Whoever bet the "you can be comically shitty and still keep players" side of that bet looks like they won. 282

[And his buzzer goes ...]

I forgot I had setup an alert on isthereanydeal.com, so when it triggered I had another look and a sniff and removed it from the waitlist.

Outer Worlds doesn't grip me as much, too cartoony for my taste. One of the reviews I saw yesterday mentioned that it does not really give you the chance to just wander about the map and see what you encounter. It's a more guided experience.

Still I have 3 months of Xbox gamepass from my new PC, so I'll probably play it when I activate the gamepass. 283

[galen ubal]

Okay, embarrassingly stupid question.
We've got an Xbox One, that we use as a media center. It's (usually) signed in under my account. Both my wife and I are intrigued by a couple of single-player games coming up. If I bought one copy of The Outer Worlds, for example, would we both be able to play our own campaigns, without messing up the other person's game? 284

[Miller]

Originally Posted by galen ubal

Okay, embarrassingly stupid question.
We've got an Xbox One, that we use as a media center. It's (usually) signed in under my account. Both my wife and I are intrigued by a couple of single-player games coming up. If I bought one copy of The Outer Worlds, for example, would we both be able to play our own campaigns, without messing up the other person's game?

If you play using different Xbox accounts, you can both play without effecting the other player's game.

If you both play using the same Xbox account... it really depends on the game. Most games allow you multiple, independent save files, but a few use a model where you only get one save file per account, and if you want to start a new game, you necessarily must erase your previous game.

I don't know for a fact which way Outer Worlds works, but I'd be very surprised if it didn't allow multiple, independent save files. Every other title from these developers has, and the kind of games they make (heavy character customization from the start of the game, branching storylines where different player choices lead to different endings) kind of demands it, so player can try out all the different options without losing all their progress. 285

[Sicks Ate]

Now I have to decide which to play...Outer Worlds or Borderlands 3. 286

[XT]

Originally Posted by Sicks Ate

Now I have to decide which to play...Outer Worlds or Borderlands 3.

Well, for me, the problem with Outer Worlds is the decision they made to go exclusive for Epic's launcher site...which, frankly, sucks. I'll probably wait until (or if I guess) it comes out on Steam. 287

[Miller]

Originally Posted by XT

Well, for me, the problem with Outer Worlds is the decision they made to go exclusive for Epic's launcher site...which, frankly, sucks. I'll probably wait until (or if I guess) it comes out on Steam.

It's a one year exclusive on Epic, then it comes out on Steam. 288

[Skywatcher]

Outer Worlds has been on my Steam wishlist for just over four months. 289

[Johnny Bravo]

Originally Posted by Dr. Strangelove

The Outer Worlds comes with the Xbox Game Pass, which is $1 for the first month on the PC. Hard to beat that.

Thanks for this - I just signed up for my month.

There's actually a lot of impressive content on their service and quite a few games I've been waffling over getting or not. I may keep it for a few months and play through some of what's there. 290

[wolfman]

I signed up for it when it was only a buck, and haven't had a reason to cancel yet, so I am currently downloading Outer Worlds. 291

[wolfman]

Interestingly, I am getting 22Mb/s download,on a weekday afternoon, from the Microsoft store. Steam has never gotten above 2.7, even in the middle of the night. I guess maybe M$ is investing in serious bandwidth for the possibility of cloud gaming. 292

[Sicks Ate]

Originally Posted by wolfman

I signed up for it when it was only a buck, and haven't had a reason to cancel yet, so I am currently downloading Outer Worlds.

Pulled the trigger and it's downloaded while I took a nap. Getting ready to play

I think the last game I purchased at release was Fallout 4. Interesting. 293

[Dr. Strangelove]

Originally Posted by Johnny Bravo

There's actually a lot of impressive content on their service and quite a few games I've been waffling over getting or not. I may keep it for a few months and play through some of what's there.

Same here. I had a friend raving about the service but I don't have an Xbox and so it didn't seem like a good fit for me. But now they have a PC-only version and the game selection looks great. Dishonored 2 is probably next on my playlist after TOW. 294

[wolfman]

Originally Posted by Sicks Ate

Pulled the trigger and it's downloaded while I took a nap. Getting ready to play

I think the last game I purchased at release was Fallout 4. Interesting.

I still got 7GB to go 295

[Jophiel]

Originally Posted by Johnny Bravo

There's actually a lot of impressive content on their service and quite a few games I've been waffling over getting or not. I may keep it for a few months and play through some of what's there.

Originally Posted by Dr. Strangelove

Same here. I had a friend raving about the service but I don't have an Xbox and so it didn't seem like a good fit for me. But now they have a PC-only version and the game selection looks great. Dishonored 2 is probably next on my playlist after TOW.

If you can find a decent price on Xbox Gold Live, you can currently have it converted for free to Game Pass Ultimate, which works on both Xbox and PC. Only works once but will work on an existing account where you haven't converted time yet. 296

[Ike Witt]

Originally Posted by And his buzzer goes ...

Outer Worlds doesn't grip me as much, too cartoony for my taste. One of the reviews I saw yesterday mentioned that it does not really give you the chance to just wander about the map and see what you encounter. It's a more guided experience.

I just want to say that I don't find the game cartoony at all. I hope that you are not mistaking a broad colour pallette for cartoony. 297

[galen ubal]

Back to Fallout 76 for a moment...
Australia Allows Some Fallout 76 Refunds After Consumers Were "Misled".

Originally Posted by article linked

The Australian Competition & Consumer Commission—a government body that basically looks after customer’s rights in the country—announced today that some refunds will be handed out for purchases of Fallout 76 after ruling that Bethesda was “likely to have contravened the Australian Consumer Law”.

The ruling—technically against Bethesda’s parent company Zenimax—came after folks buying Fallout 76 complained that they weren’t actually able to play the game, or that it had “problems with the servers, lagging, graphic and visual problems” and asked for a refund, only to be told by Bethesda that they weren’t entitled to one.

298

[Raza]

I don't like the move to a subscription model (Fallout 1st), even if optional, and I don't like how an increasing number of things that are greater-than-cosmetic are purchasable.

But I don't see what they are doing is any different than Elder Scrolls Online, which also has an optional subscription, where said subscription gives you additional credits each month and what amounts to a "stash box" where all crafting materials are automatically placed in this bottomless container. That plus other benefits like faster progression (leveling).

Yet the community loves ESO. I think the rage on Reddit and other places about the recent F076 moves represent a small fraction of players. Actual player numbers have apparently not gone down since the release of Fallout 1st. 299

[Atamasama]

I think ESO is just a better game, that’s what it boils down to.

I mean, I played it from the beginning and it was okay, not good enough to keep my interest though. It has always had a problem with balance, where there are few decent builds, so you either had a slight variation on a cookie cutter setup or played something substandard. 300