Straight Dope Message Board

[Omniscient]

Originally Posted by enalzi

While I agree Brown is a prima donna, here's a really good article from Nate Jackson (TE-Broncos) about how big of a deal changing helmets is:

https://deadspin.com/why-antonio-bro...met-1837234576

I think we're going to have to agree to disagree on how good that article is. 51

[Omniscient]

Originally Posted by Clawdio

Question about these helmets he's trying to find:

Years ago i took a 2 week motorcycle safety course where (if we passed) we got our motorcycle drivers licence at the end of the 2 weeks. One thing they preached was never set your helmet on the seat of your bike, because if it fell from that height and hit the ground it was basically useless (to the point where they wouldn't even let us ride in the class if they saw us drop our helmet).

Yeah, that's a complete line of shit. 52

[asterion]

Dating advice for the 2019 NFL season: Find someone who loves you like Antonio Brown loves his helmet. 53

[Airman Doors, USAF]

Originally Posted by enalzi

While I agree Brown is a prima donna, here's a really good article from Nate Jackson (TE-Broncos) about how big of a deal changing helmets is:

https://deadspin.com/why-antonio-bro...met-1837234576

I’m sure it is. Nevertheless, he has no choice, so suck it up and get on with it. Virtually everybody else manages to adapt and overcome without making it a huge thing of it. 54

[Chronos]

Even if we grant that the new helmets hinder visibility and make it harder to catch the ball, isn't that a handicap that's being applied uniformly to all receivers? It's not like changing the helmet rules creates an uneven playing field. 55

[Atamasama]

Originally Posted by Chronos

Even if we grant that the new helmets hinder visibility and make it harder to catch the ball, isn't that a handicap that's being applied uniformly to all receivers? It's not like changing the helmet rules creates an uneven playing field.

Yes. It’s analogous to a cornerback complaining that DPI rules are too stringent and he can’t provide coverage like he used to, so he refuses to play until they make an exception for him. Except this is worse, because the impetus for this rule is to protect Brown and other players. (Well, cynically you can say it’s to protect the NFL from lawsuits and improve their public image but potato, poh-tah-toe.) 56

[mhendo]

Originally Posted by Hamlet

You're absolutely right, if Bell suffers a career ending injury in the first year of his contract, he made the right decision to sign with the Jets rather than the Steelers. Other than that, he sacrificed money to get guaranteed money. It is, of course, his decision, and I support his ability to get as much money as he can. But I think you really have to ignore history and common sense to conclude a guy who will make less during the time it is highly unlikely he'll be cut, will make less in yearly salary, and skipped out on $14.5 million is better off.

Originally Posted by Hamlet

God forbid I defend the Steelers (good owners, horrible fans)...

I'm no expert on pro football contracts or the workings of the collective bargaining agreement, but it seems pretty clear from reading some articles on this that Bell cost himself money with his holdout.

I'm not interested in criticizing him for it. I think players need to look out for their own interests, and I've got no time for fans who blather on about "the good of the team" and other bullshit like that. That's especially true in a league where the owners hold so many of the cards. It's not like baseball, where all your money is guaranteed no matter what. Bell took a gamble based on his perceived self-interest. It cost him a year, and will probably cost him some money, but I don't really blame him for doing it.

The whole conversation about him (and Brown, for that matter) seems to be all or nothing. Either the Steelers shafted Brown and Bell, or Brown and Bell are disloyal assholes and the team was right to stand up to them. Brown, especially, does seem like a bit of a strange personality, but there are primadonnas all over professional sports. And sure, Bell wanted a lot of money. But can anyone seriously argue that Pittsburgh wouldn't be a better team if they still had two players who, between them, have almost 20,000 yards from scrimmage over a combined 14 NFL seasons?

There's a decent chance the Ravens are going to suck this season, but I'm certainly happier knowing that their biggest rival won't have one of the best running backs and one of the best wide receivers of the last decade in their lineup. As for the fans, I sort of like Drew Magary's take:

The Steelers’ record this year won’t matter at all to these fans, who only want to make sure that Bell and Brown both get their respective comeuppances. For a city that loves to portray itself as blue-collar and industrious they sure do hate collective action by black guys. It’ll just be a four-month stretch of them bleating I TOLD YOU SO anytime AB drops a pass...

They’re a bunch of clammy rubes who just witnessed a historically good offense get disassembled thanks to needless acrimony, and they could not be happier about it. Their team is now an ashen heap of failure and they’re fucking BEAMING with pride. Finally, their boys can get back to Stiller Footbaw!

57

[Isosleepy]

Back to AB: he didn’t pay a chef he engaged, because a fish head reminded him of the horse-head in The Godfather, making the chef a mob killer, whom he kicked out un-paid. I’ve had days almost exactly like that. https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.tmz...chi-fish-head/
Warning: source is TMZ so odds are non-zero this is al bs, which would be tragic. 58

[russian heel]

Brown is going to make $30 million guaranteed. If he can't find the NFL helmet that meets his EXACT needs, then he has to join the other 99.9999% of the rest of the players and accept the helmet given to him.

I can't imagine the displeasure of the first players to have to play with the face mask in the 1960s but they got over it. These were players that made 5 figures.

Surely Antonio Brown can find a way to adjust to slight modification to the new NFL helmet, and if he is such a great talent, will overcome its limitations. Either way he gets paid. Just get on the field and play fucking football, Antonio and stop being such a fucking crybaby.

This from a pro-player v management guy.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk 59

[mhendo]

Originally Posted by Isosleepy

Back to AB: he didn’t pay a chef he engaged, because a fish head reminded him of the horse-head in The Godfather, making the chef a mob killer, whom he kicked out un-paid. I’ve had days almost exactly like that. https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.tmz...chi-fish-head/
Warning: source is TMZ so odds are non-zero this is al bs, which would be tragic.

Well, the lawsuit itself is real. I downloaded the complaint from the Osceola County Courts website. It doesn't talk about the salmon head, or make any Godfather references. It's a fairly standard claim for unpaid services.

I've uploaded the complaint to my Google drive.

Brown really is a bit of a train wreck. 60

[asahi]

I wonder if AB hasn't had his bell rung one too many times. Maybe it really is time for him to retire. 61

[FoieGrasIsEvil]

Almost killing a kid with furniture thrown from a balcony during a tantrum makes AB a colossal douchebag. The helmet thing makes him a laughingstock. Get over it, princess. 62

[asahi]

Originally Posted by FoieGrasIsEvil

Almost killing a kid with furniture thrown from a balcony during a tantrum makes AB a colossal douchebag. The helmet thing makes him a laughingstock. Get over it, princess.

That's the kind of thing I'm talking about: his behavior is erratic and self-destructive. Sure, some of it is probably arrogance, but he's impulsively violent and reckless. That makes me wonder if he isn't already suffering from some form of CTE. Maybe for his sake and the sake of others, retirement is his best option. 63

[Velocity]

If all WRs have to use the same helmet, surely they're at equal disadvantage now? AB wouldn't be any worse off. 64

[Clawdio]

Two funny side notes to this whole debacle:

1. Its funny how Brown finally deciding to PRACTICE basically gets wall-to-wall coverage on ESPN.

2. Kinda funny how this whole thing makes Gruden look like a clown as he bends over backwards while trying to kiss AB's ass at every turn. Though i suppose you could argue Gruden was always a bit of a clown. At least the GM almost tried to be a little stern, or threaten to be stern in the future... or something. 65

[Intergalactic Gladiator]

Some people think this was all a little manufactured drama for Hard Knocks.

https://deadspin.com/the-antonio-bro...hud-1837436272 66

[Velocity]

On a related note, why are so many divas wide receivers? Is it something about the WR position that fosters a diva attitude? 67

[kenobi 65]

Originally Posted by Velocity

On a related note, why are so many divas wide receivers? Is it something about the WR position that fosters a diva attitude?

I've read conjecture that it may have something to do with the concept that wide receivers, moreso than most other positions in football, are solo performers -- they run their routes, without a lot of interaction with their teammates (except, of course, for the quarterback) and they often are engaged in one-to-one battles against single defensive backs. 68

[Atamasama]

Corner backs are frequently divas as well. They interact more with safeties to share coverage but there tend to be quite a few corners who like the spotlight and can be, let’s say they have strong personalities. 69

[kenobi 65]

Originally Posted by Atamasama

Corner backs are frequently divas as well. They interact more with safeties to share coverage but there tend to be quite a few corners who like the spotlight and can be, let’s say they have strong personalities.

That's a good point, and it's they who are most likely to be engaging in those one-on-one matchups against diva wide receivers. 70

[Taber]

Originally Posted by kenobi 65

I've read conjecture that it may have something to do with the concept that wide receivers, moreso than most other positions in football, are solo performers -- they run their routes, without a lot of interaction with their teammates (except, of course, for the quarterback) and they often are engaged in one-to-one battles against single defensive backs.

Another theory I've heard is that a wide receiver's success is very dependent on how often the QB throws them the ball. Acting super confident and arrogant sends a message which might influence the QB to throw them the ball more if the QB believes them. Even if WRs aren't doing it intentionally, if WRs are rewarded for arrogance, then it will select for arrogance in WRs. 71

[Velocity]

Originally Posted by Atamasama

Corner backs are frequently divas as well. They interact more with safeties to share coverage but there tend to be quite a few corners who like the spotlight and can be, let’s say they have strong personalities.

Oh yeah. DeAngelo Hall, Josh Norman, Darrelle Revis, Richard Sherman, Deion Sanders, Cortland Finnegan, etc. 72

[Velocity]

Originally Posted by Taber

Another theory I've heard is that a wide receiver's success is very dependent on how often the QB throws them the ball. Acting super confident and arrogant sends a message which might influence the QB to throw them the ball more if the QB believes them. Even if WRs aren't doing it intentionally, if WRs are rewarded for arrogance, then it will select for arrogance in WRs.

I'm not sure how much that overrides the QB's actual knowledge of the WR's strengths. In Dallas, for instance, Roy Williams had plenty of diva personality, but he played so poorly and dropped so many balls that Tony Romo threw him the ball seldomly, so little so that it was theorized that Romo was deliberately avoiding him. 73

[Atamasama]

Originally Posted by Velocity

I'm not sure how much that overrides the QB's actual knowledge of the WR's strengths. In Dallas, for instance, Roy Williams had plenty of diva personality, but he played so poorly and dropped so many balls that Tony Romo threw him the ball seldomly, so little so that it was theorized that Romo was deliberately avoiding him.

As much as a WR relies on the QB, the opposite is true. If the guy you throw to doesn’t catch the ball, you both look bad. 74

[FoieGrasIsEvil]

Originally Posted by kenobi 65

That's a good point, and it's they who are most likely to be engaging in those one-on-one matchups against diva wide receivers.

The CLEAREST example of this mutual behavior in the current NFL is this (YouTube video follows): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zeBWYwDls1A 75

[Guest-starring: Id!]

AB, who arrived to camp in a hot air balloon, goes off about his circumsized feet.

Warning: uh, yeah, kinda gross. 76

[Jackmannii]

Originally Posted by Clawdio

Its funny how Brown finally deciding to PRACTICE basically gets wall-to-wall coverage on ESPN.

Wasn't that the whole point of his generating this big controversy? 77

[mhendo]

Originally Posted by Jackmannii

Wasn't that the whole point of his generating this big controversy?

Yeah, it's reminiscent of Terrell Owens wearing no shirt and doing sit-ups while surrounded by a media scrum. 78

[ElvisL1ves]

Allen Iverson lives on. 79

[Chisquirrel]

Originally Posted by ElvisL1ves

Allen Iverson lives on.

That's...not exactly equivalent, given that AI was talking about how he felt regarding practice when the trial of his friend's murderer had just started a couple days before. Just after the popular clip ends, Iverson speaks on it:

Originally Posted by Allen Iverson

"I'm upset for one reason: 'Cause I'm in here. I lost. I lost my best friend. I lost him, and I lost this year. Everything is just going downhill for me, as far as just that. You know, as far as my life. And then I'm dealing with this. ... My best friend is dead. Dead. And we lost. And this is what I have to go through for the rest of the summer until the season is all over again."

80

[wolfman]

Today exciting installment in the AB saga.....


https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/...end-ab-tiff-gm
Looks like he is going to be suspended, and the Raider reportedly want to get out of his contract altogether. 81

[Intergalactic Gladiator]

That team is set up to collapse so spectacularly that I will be surprised if they don't create a singularity in the process. 82

[Gray Ghost]

Originally Posted by wolfman

Today exciting installment in the AB saga.....


https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/...end-ab-tiff-gm
Looks like he is going to be suspended, and the Raider reportedly want to get out of his contract altogether.

It's going to depend on his contract, and the arbitrator, but I don't see how getting suspended for arguing with the GM is sufficient willful conduct by Brown to warrant the Raiders clawing back his signing bonus. Then again, I was surprised when the Dolphins were able to do it to Ricky Williams, so what do I know?

On the other, other hand, Williams leaving the Dolphins was entirely his own idea. In Brown's case, the team is suspending him, he isn't leaving. An arbitrator can certainly rule though that voluntary actions by both players caused their separations. It still looks to me that clawing back his guaranteed money after they suspend him seems excessive, but it depends on the text of his contract.

Also, on the one hand, nice move confronting the idiot about his Instagram post, Mayock. Seems like a battle he didn't have to fight. On the other hand, if it wasn't this specific incident, I think Brown would have found some other reason to blow up on the Raiders' staff. What a mess.

Brown's behavior is reminding me a bit of Chris Henry. Just bizarre, and at times violent, irrational outbursts. I hope it ends better for him. 83

[Isosleepy]

I have to believe this is the final “come to Jesus” effort by the Raiders. If AB simmers down, he plays. But if he continues to be furniture-throwing AB, that’s going to be the Raiders cutting their losses to $1M and 2 picks. I still can’t believe what we are watching. This may have been the best Steelers trade since Bettis. 84

[Gray Ghost]

Addendum to the AB blow up with Mayock, that I guess wasn't covered by Hard Knocks: the peacemaker in the 'heated argument' between the two was....Vontaze Burfict. https://twitter.com/VicTafur/status/1169665597581381632

Vontaze Burfict as peacemaker... I like this timeline.

Seriously though, the guy sounds like he needs some serious psychological help. 85

[Atamasama]

Originally Posted by Intergalactic Gladiator

That team is set up to collapse so spectacularly that I will be surprised if they don't create a singularity in the process.

You know, the Raiders’ biggest fan club is a group calling themselves the “Black Hole”, so I think this team is uniquely prepared for that possibility. 86

[Loach]

Originally Posted by Gray Ghost

It's going to depend on his contract, and the arbitrator, but I don't see how getting suspended for arguing with the GM is sufficient willful conduct by Brown to warrant the Raiders clawing back his signing bonus. Then again, I was surprised when the Dolphins were able to do it to Ricky Williams, so what do I know?

On the other, other hand, Williams leaving the Dolphins was entirely his own idea. In Brown's case, the team is suspending him, he isn't leaving. An arbitrator can certainly rule though that voluntary actions by both players caused their separations. It still looks to me that clawing back his guaranteed money after they suspend him seems excessive, but it depends on the text of his contract.

Also, on the one hand, nice move confronting the idiot about his Instagram post, Mayock. Seems like a battle he didn't have to fight. On the other hand, if it wasn't this specific incident, I think Brown would have found some other reason to blow up on the Raiders' staff. What a mess.

Brown's behavior is reminding me a bit of Chris Henry. Just bizarre, and at times violent, irrational outbursts. I hope it ends better for him.

His signing bonus is only $1 mil. They may try to go after that but it’s a hard fight. What they are really looking at is the $30 mil in guaranteed money. If he is on the active roster on Sunday he is owed $14 mil for 2019. To get out of that they can suspend him and then drop him. I’m sure it can be fought but they are in a much better position. Source : Mike Tannenbaum’s twitter.

Personally I think threatening to punch the GM in the face is more than “arguing.” It can also be argued that Brown did not fulfill his part of the contract by refusing to practice. 87

[ElvisL1ves]

I do so enjoy the exceptionally-paranoid conspiracy theory that AB is engineering his way to Foxboro.

They hate us because they ain't us, as the saying goes. 88

[Gray Ghost]

Originally Posted by ElvisL1ves

I do so enjoy the exceptionally-paranoid conspiracy theory that AB is engineering his way to Foxboro.

They hate us because they ain't us, as the saying goes.

I wonder whether he just doesn't want to play football for anyone anymore: Steelers, Raiders, Pats, the local Y flag football league? In hindsight, the cryotherapy foot injury is looking more and more like the scene in so many war movies where guys are shooting themselves in the feet to get out of having to fight.

Not kidding, I'm expecting the next major news blurb about him to be that he's seriously hurt himself and/or other people. I've a real bad feeling about how all this is going to turn out.

OTOH, Terrell Owens is still with us, so I dunno. 89

[mhendo]

Originally Posted by ElvisL1ves

I do so enjoy the exceptionally-paranoid conspiracy theory that AB is engineering his way to Foxboro.

They hate us because they ain't us, as the saying goes.

LOL.

That "article" (I use the quotes, because it's largely a collection of random social media posts) seems more like something written by an attention whore Patriots fan who's looking to feed into the sense of smug superiority that permeates the Boston sporting landscape. Seems like it's working. 90

[ElvisL1ves]

If it's even inducing false-flag into the conspiracy theory, then it's even more enjoyable. 91

[Isosleepy]

Keeps on giving: https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/anto...142810913.html

While this is entertaining as hell, I hope this is just a natural progression from a self-centered twit whom nobody has said “no” to in half a decade, to a full-fledged black hole of prima-donna WR narcissism, rather than evidence of some sort of personality change due to CTE. Because then I would feel bad about my schadenfreude. .

I will root against the Raiders regardless of what they do with AB. Because they still have Vontanze “the peacemaker” Burfict. 92

[Jasmine]

He's an egomaniac, a complete ass, and an insufferable blowhard. He's what I refer to as a "Neo-Aristotelian" because he truly believes the entire universe revolves around him. I can't imagine anyone more damaging to the team mentality. 93

[ElvisL1ves]

That. He isn't the typical "attitude problem", a supremely talented athlete who expresses frustration at wasting his prime with a losing team that has no intent of ever going for it, and is perfectly fine once he gets to a winner. This guy is just a jerk. 94

[kayaker]

Originally Posted by Isosleepy

I will root against the Raiders regardless of what they do with AB. Because they still have Vontanze “the peacemaker” Burfict.

As a Pittsburgher, I'd root against the Raiders if the team cured cancer and brought peace to the Middle East. 95

[ElvisL1ves]

It is the moral duty of any conscious adult to root against the Raiders. That's been true for decades. 96

[Atamasama]

Originally Posted by kayaker

Pittsburgher

No offense but to me that sounds like a very unappealing lunch menu item. 97

[kayaker]

Originally Posted by Atamasama

No offense but to me that sounds like a very unappealing lunch menu item.

I've been in many western Pennsylvania eateries that offer a "PittsBurger", made to fit their idea of what a PittsBurger should be. 98

[Isosleepy]

Originally Posted by kayaker

As a Pittsburgher, I'd root against the Raiders if the team cured cancer and brought peace to the Middle East.

If they do both, I’d have to start reconsidering. 99

[Sir T-Cups]

Aaaaaaaand now he's issued "an emotional apology" and is going to play on Monday .

Can't wait until he's got his money and does the next stupid thing because he's not being thrown to enough or something. Money is all he cares about anyway so...um...good job?

This isn't the thread for this at all, but AB apparently yelled at Mayock and called him a "cracker". Granted, if I was ever called that I'd probably laugh it off, or at least give a " really?", but that's still a racist term and AB is just gonna get away with it scot free. If the shoe was on the other (frostbitten) foot? Hoooooooo boy 100