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  #201  
Old 10-16-2018, 02:34 PM
Bijou Drains Bijou Drains is offline
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the really liberal people are never going to like who the Dems nominate , last time most were for Sanders. So it's no surprise they complained about Obama and Clintons. But all of 3 of them were left of center in my book.

In 2016 our local liberal weekly paper endorsed Clinton in the primary and some acted like they had endorsed Satan.
  #202  
Old 10-16-2018, 02:41 PM
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the really liberal people are never going to like who the Dems nominate , last time most were for Sanders. So it's no surprise they complained about Obama and Clintons. But all of 3 of them were left of center in my book.
.
Yes, they were moderate liberals. So indeed, left of center. But on a scale of 1-10,they were 4's and Trump is a 9.

So the Dems are running more moderate candidates than the GOP is.
  #203  
Old 10-16-2018, 02:59 PM
Attack from the 3rd dimension Attack from the 3rd dimension is offline
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I'm calling it. (Colorado has the 2nd-fastest growing economy in the Country.)
John Hickenlooper for the Big Job.
Kamala Harris as his V.P.

That's it, the final answer. The next two years will be anticlimax. Remember you heard it here ... second. (I was Ninja'ed by ElvisL1ves.)

@ Mods, close the thread please.

Sounds good to me.
  #204  
Old 10-16-2018, 05:02 PM
Bijou Drains Bijou Drains is offline
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Julian Castro is likely to run in 2020. Former HUD secretary Also was San Antonio mayor

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/former-...wrong-in-2016/
  #205  
Old 10-16-2018, 08:35 PM
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If I were running against Trump and had to debate him, literally the first thing I would say - my opening statement - would be "Donald, how does Melania feel about the fact that you fuck other women?"

This is the time to be audacious. Any Democratic nominee who literally did that, and other things like it, would destroy the election.

What would actually happen if a candidate said that during a debate? Would the moderators shut it down or something? What are they going to do, say "we're going to cancel this whole debate because of that?" The crowd would be howling with laughter (and boos), it would be a madhouse, but what would they actually do?

We need the kind of candidate who would consider all of that...and then say it anyway.
  #206  
Old 10-16-2018, 08:44 PM
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If I were running against Trump and had to debate him, literally the first thing I would say - my opening statement - would be "Donald, how does Melania feel about the fact that you fuck other women?"
You would lose lots of votes if you used "fuck".
  #207  
Old 10-16-2018, 08:58 PM
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Bullshit.

There isn't a single person in this country - who is not already in the bag for Trump - who would see that exchange in the debate and think, "well, I'm not voting for this guy because he said 'fuck.'" That's not how it is. All the old books have been thrown out here. There are no rules anymore. The country would eat that shit up. It would fire up Democratic voters like nobody's business.
  #208  
Old 10-17-2018, 08:42 AM
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Trump didn't lose any votes for his language.
  #209  
Old 10-17-2018, 10:42 AM
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Instead of "fuck", just say "make love" using sarcastic air quotes. A more effective insult and avoids the bannable word.
  #210  
Old 10-17-2018, 10:48 AM
Bijou Drains Bijou Drains is offline
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If I were running against Trump and had to debate him, literally the first thing I would say - my opening statement - would be "Donald, how does Melania feel about the fact that you fuck other women?"

.
She was asked about his affairs the other day and did not deny them. She said she had more important issues to worry about.

Last edited by Bijou Drains; 10-17-2018 at 10:49 AM.
  #211  
Old 10-17-2018, 11:13 AM
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She was asked about his affairs the other day and did not deny them. She said she had more important issues to worry about.
Like how to get around the pre-nup.
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  #212  
Old 10-17-2018, 11:13 AM
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That's very different than putting Trump on the spot with the question RIGHT off the bat at the beginning of the first presidential debate with the entire country watching.

I concede that it could backfire though if Trump's response was "how do you feel about the fact that your wife fucks other men?"

Which is the kind of thing he would do, actually.
  #213  
Old Yesterday, 02:39 PM
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Not Hickenlooper. I disqualified him when he and John Kasich began kicking around the idea of a Kasich/Hickenlooper joint ticket. If Kasich has become a "moderate Republican," then the battle is already lost. (Check his record.) That Hickenlooper would even consider such a joint run disqualifies him in my view based on his bad judgment.

I want to see a Mark Warner/Tammy Duckworth ticket. They're both young and have actual government experience. Both could be safely sacrificed from the Senate by 2020 and replaced by Democrats. They know how things get done. They understand the importance of diplomacy in a global world.

Warner is wealthy, but he has voted against his own personal best interests as a senator (tax bill, e.g.). Duckworth brings the military cred. Plus they're both simply stellar individuals, IMHO.
Cite? I remember hearing people talk about such a ticket, but I never heard that Hickenlooper himself ever expressed strong interest in running. If so, I agree that should disqualify him.
  #214  
Old Yesterday, 02:46 PM
Bijou Drains Bijou Drains is offline
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they would probably find a way to blame Duckworth for her combat wounds.

That's what worked when they ran against Max Cleland for the GA senate seat. He lost both legs above the knees in Vietnam. They said it was his own fault.
  #215  
Old Yesterday, 02:57 PM
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I'm calling it. (Colorado has the 2nd-fastest growing economy in the Country.)
John Hickenlooper for the Big Job.
Kamala Harris as his V.P.

That's it, the final answer. The next two years will be anticlimax. Remember you heard it here ... second. (I was Ninja'ed by ElvisL1ves.)

@ Mods, close the thread please.
I'm liking this ticket, though I would prefer it to be the other way around. Thinking in terms of getting racial, gender, and ideological balance.

Here is 538's list of people who appear to be running for President at the current time (which isn't to say that most of them won't see which way the wind is blowing and drop out before ever formally announcing). Despite the fact that it seems ridiculously early, it takes a long time to ramp up a Presidential campaign these days, so I think it's almost certain that the eventual nominee will be on this list:

Lawyer Michael Avenatti; South Bend, Indiana, Mayor Pete Buttigieg; Montana Gov. Steve Bullock; former Vice President Joe Biden; New Jersey Sen. Cory Booker; former Secretary of Housing and Urban Development Julian Castro; Colorado Gov. John Hickenlooper; Los Angeles Mayor Eric Garcetti; New York Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand; California Sen. Kamala Harris; Former Attorney General Eric Holder; former New Orleans Mayor Mitch Landrieu; Sen. Jeff Merkley of Oregon; former Maryland Gov. Martin O’Malley; Rep. Seth Moulton of Massachusetts; Rep. Tim Ryan of Ohio; Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders; Rep. Eric Swalwell of California; businessman and pro-impeachment activist Tom Steyer; Massachusetts Sen. Elizabeth Warren; Sen. Amy Klobuchar of Minnesota, Washington Gov. Jay Inslee, former Virginia Gov. Terry McAuliffe, Sen. Brian Schatz of Hawaii

Removing everyone whom I don't see a reason to take seriously based on resume:

Montana Gov. Steve Bullock; former Vice President Joe Biden; New Jersey Sen. Cory Booker;Colorado Gov. John Hickenlooper; New York Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand; California Sen. Kamala Harris; Sen. Jeff Merkley of Oregon; former Maryland Gov. Martin O’Malley; Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders; Massachusetts Sen. Elizabeth Warren; Sen. Amy Klobuchar of Minnesota, Washington Gov. Jay Inslee, former Virginia Gov. Terry McAuliffe, Sen. Brian Schatz of Hawaii

Biden, Sanders, and Warren are too old. Merkley represents the progressive wing, and I don't think they particularly want a white guy who isn't Bernie Sanders. McAuliffe is too closely linked to the Clintons. Gillibrand I think is going to be too easy to paint as insincere based on how much her positions have evolved. I don't know anything about O'Malley, Inslee, or Schatz, and O'Malley already ran once.

Montana Gov. Steve Bullock; New Jersey Sen. Cory Booker;Colorado Gov. John Hickenlooper; California Sen. Kamala Harris; Sen. Amy Klobuchar of Minnesota,

Either Bullock/Harris or Hickenlooper/Harris would be a good combo (or the other way around). Likewise Klobuchar/Booker or vice versa. Of course, if Harris is at the top of the ticket, there's no shortage of moderate white guys to pair her with.

Tammy Duckworth would be a good VP choice for Sanders or Merkley, but with anyone else you're going to have either two women, two minorities, or two moderates on the ticket.

Last edited by Thing Fish; Yesterday at 02:59 PM.
  #216  
Old Yesterday, 03:02 PM
Bijou Drains Bijou Drains is offline
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The TV debates normally only allow people who do above a certain level in polls. But I wonder if they might put a few extras for entertainment like Avenatti.

Also recall in 2016 the GOP had the "kids table" debate because they had too many running. I think only Carly Fiorina got moved up to the main debates.
  #217  
Old Yesterday, 04:35 PM
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Back when I was in Montana, one of the gubernatorial debates was on campus, so I figured what the heck, why not go. It was the first debate, before the culling, so there were a couple of Republicans, a couple of Democrats, and about five stark raving loonies. It was entertaining, to be sure.
  #218  
Old Yesterday, 04:57 PM
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Cite? I remember hearing people talk about such a ticket, but I never heard that Hickenlooper himself ever expressed strong interest in running. If so, I agree that should disqualify him.
First reference: ABC News on George Stephanopoulos Report, February 25, 2018.

Another reference: Business Insider, April 2, 2018.

More teasing: CNN, August 25, 2018.

And on the same day -- finally -- Hickenlooper dispels the notion. The Hill, August 25, 2018.

I won't argue that Kasich always seemed more keen than Hickenlooper. But Hickenlooper fueled the speculation and did not affirmatively deny the claim for 6 months. Based on that, I believe he was seriously considering it, only waiting to see if there was any discernible support for such an idea.

Not the guy I want at the top of any ticket. <Trump voice>We'll see what happens, though.</Trump voice>

Last edited by Aspenglow; Yesterday at 04:58 PM.
  #219  
Old Yesterday, 05:16 PM
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Aspenglow, your last link is misdated. Hickenlooper shot the idea down on August 25, 2017.
  #220  
Old Yesterday, 05:18 PM
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Aspenglow, your last link is misdated. Hickenlooper shot the idea down on August 25, 2017.
You're correct. In fact, all dates are incorrect. But the point still stands.

Last edited by Aspenglow; Yesterday at 05:19 PM.
  #221  
Old Yesterday, 08:41 PM
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Biden, Sanders, and Warren are too old.
Either Bullock/Harris or Hickenlooper/Harris would be a good combo (or the other way around). Likewise Klobuchar/Booker or vice versa. Of course, if Harris is at the top of the ticket, there's no shortage of moderate white guys to pair her with.

Tammy Duckworth would be a good VP choice for Sanders or Merkley, but with anyone else you're going to have either two women, two minorities, or two moderates on the ticket.
No, they are not.

Harris doesn't have the chops or the state to be Prez. Coming from CA gets you nuthin. You need to come from a Southern or Rust belt state. Colorado is no biggie but it can be a swing state. The critical states are: Colorado, Florida, Iowa, Michigan, Minnesota, Ohio, Nevada, New Hampshire, North Carolina, Pennsylvania, Virginia, and Wisconsin . Any southern state is also good.

And why Harris? Can you name anything she has done? Any big speeches or bills? Are you in favor just because of her sex, race, and political leanings?


And Harris is super anti-gun, which will cost her the moderate gun owner crowd.

Last edited by DrDeth; Yesterday at 08:42 PM.
  #222  
Old Yesterday, 08:55 PM
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The Dems have a big problem in that the type of candidate they need to actually win is someone like Bill Clinton - a southern governor with a track record of relative moderation from the center left. Someone like Phil Bredesen would work.

The problem is that the Democrats have moved hard left, and a person like that would never get the nomination. So I expect the Democrats to put up someone like Kamala Harris or Cory Booker or Elizabeth Warren - and lose again.

Going after Trump's character is not going to work, since there's not a single Republican out there who isn't aware of Trump's faults. They don't care. You guys keep dredging up scandal after scandal, and it makes no impact on the electorate at all. Trump's character issues have been fully discounted. Unless you can find a dead body, it won't matter.

Democrats have to get back to politics and win by convincing the public that they will be better stewards of the economy. That's what people actually care about. Show them why you are a better choice if you want their vote. Screaming at Republicans, chasing them out of restaraunts, clawing at the Supreme Court doors - these are loser moves that are alienating everyone who isn't already in your base.
  #223  
Old Yesterday, 09:27 PM
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No, they are not.

Harris doesn't have the chops or the state to be Prez. Coming from CA gets you nuthin. You need to come from a Southern or Rust belt state. Colorado is no biggie but it can be a swing state. The critical states are: Colorado, Florida, Iowa, Michigan, Minnesota, Ohio, Nevada, New Hampshire, North Carolina, Pennsylvania, Virginia, and Wisconsin . Any southern state is also good.

And why Harris? Can you name anything she has done? Any big speeches or bills? Are you in favor just because of her sex, race, and political leanings?


And Harris is super anti-gun, which will cost her the moderate gun owner crowd.
So, assuming the list I cited above is correct, we're down to Hickenlooper and Klobuchar. There's a bumper sticker for you. The home state thing is overrated. The last two Democratic nominees were from big blue States, and Trump won without carrying New York.

I like Harris because of her political leanings, and to be perfectly honest I do think it's important for the sake of turning out the base that the ticket not be a couple of old white guys. I also like Booker. I would like Sanders, Merkley or Warren too, but I judge them as too old and/or worse general election candidates than Harris.

And I also think some ideological balance would be good for the ticket. So if you want a centrist white guy for the top of the ticket, which a lot of people here seem to, Harris checks all the balance boxes.
  #224  
Old Yesterday, 09:39 PM
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So, assuming the list I cited above is correct, we're down to Hickenlooper and Klobuchar. There's a bumper sticker for you. The home state thing is overrated. The last two Democratic nominees were from big blue States, and Trump won without carrying New York.

I like Harris because of her political leanings, and to be perfectly honest I do think it's important for the sake of turning out the base that the ticket not be a couple of old white guys. I also like Booker. I would like Sanders, Merkley or Warren too, but I judge them as too old and/or worse general election candidates than Harris.

And I also think some ideological balance would be good for the ticket. So if you want a centrist white guy for the top of the ticket, which a lot of people here seem to, Harris checks all the balance boxes.
I would accept Harris as veep, but not for Prez.

Also Duckworth.

Biden is not too old.
  #225  
Old Yesterday, 09:50 PM
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T

The problem is that the Democrats have moved hard left, and a person like that would never get the nomination. So I expect the Democrats to put up someone like Kamala Harris or Cory Booker or Elizabeth Warren - and lose again.

Going after Trump's character is not going to work, since there's not a single Republican out there who isn't aware of Trump's faults. They don't care. You guys keep dredging up scandal after scandal, and it makes no impact on the electorate at all. Trump's character issues have been fully discounted. Unless you can find a dead body, it won't matter.
We nominated Hillary Clinton, a moderate liberal. So, no the Dems have not moved hard left.

Yes, Kamala Harris or Elizabeth Warren - will result in a Dem loss.

Yes, it will. Sure it wont change his core voter.

But it can change the millions of Independents, progressives, and such that voted 3rd party or stayed home last election. It can also change the votes of a few moderate GOpers. But all the Dems need is for the Independents, progressives, and such... and the Dem moderate stalwarts- to vote dem. The Dems dont need to move a single GOP voter.
  #226  
Old Yesterday, 10:10 PM
Thing Fish Thing Fish is offline
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I would accept Harris as veep, but not for Prez.

Also Duckworth.

Biden is not too old.
Saying that someone is acceptable as VP but not as President seems odd...you know the VP's job description, right? Or do you just mean electability-wise? And if Biden isn't too old, then Sanders isn't, either, so Sanders-Duckworth for the win! But they are.
  #227  
Old Yesterday, 10:22 PM
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Besides, Harris is a former State Attorney General. Who knows how to deal with guys like Trump better than a prosecutor?
  #228  
Old Yesterday, 10:44 PM
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Saying that someone is acceptable as VP but not as President seems odd...you know the VP's job description, right? Or do you just mean electability-wise? And if Biden isn't too old, then Sanders isn't, either, so Sanders-Duckworth for the win! But they are.
Because Harris has not enough experience. Why do you like her- be specific.

Sanders is too leftist and lost the last time. Many Dems are also unhappy with him as he didnt try to curbs his fans and also took too long to concede.

Sanders is a decent guy, and got what he wanted on the platform.
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