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  #11701  
Old 06-08-2019, 11:28 PM
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too late to edit. The Idiot is a good-hearted man, change it to The Baboon.
  #11702  
Old 06-09-2019, 12:10 AM
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Yep. Keep building the case. And keep letting him self-destruct. The Idiot can't answer any question now without starting to rail against Mueller, Pelosi, the angry Democrats. He can't even make a D-Day speech without doing so. I would like to see the motherfucker in jail tomorrow, but I would rather see him in the pit as the pendulum slowly comes down.
Yes, my point exactly. He's clearly rattled, and Pelosi knows it. She just has to make sure she doesn't overshoot because many of the House majority come from districts that are pretty centrist, and some even lean right.
  #11703  
Old 06-09-2019, 09:11 AM
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Yep. Keep building the case. And keep letting him self-destruct. The Idiot can't answer any question now without starting to rail against Mueller, Pelosi, the angry Democrats. He can't even make a D-Day speech without doing so. I would like to see the motherfucker in jail tomorrow, but I would rather see him in the pit as the pendulum slowly comes down.
I said more than a year ago I was picturing that scene in The Ten Commandments where the old lady greasing the skids gets her robe caught under the stone. Maybe it's because it made a big impression on me (I was six at the time) but I find it a lot more satisfying than John Kerr strapped to that damned table (where I was eleven).

Last edited by DesertDog; 06-09-2019 at 09:12 AM.
  #11704  
Old 06-09-2019, 09:21 AM
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Yes, my point exactly. He's clearly rattled, and Pelosi knows it. She just has to make sure she doesn't overshoot because many of the House majority come from districts that are pretty centrist, and some even lean right.
Yes. But.

He's been rattled since he won. Claiming that Clinton got a lot of illegal votes, and claiming that he had a bigger inauguration crowd than Obama.

Pelosi may hope that something finally sets him over the edge. My question is - "What edge"? His supporters (including senate republicans) don't care how big of a fuck up he is. Hell, they APPLAUDE it.

If he came out of his residence wearing nothing but underwear on his head, they would claim he was sleep walking. Or it's a new fashion style.
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  #11705  
Old 06-09-2019, 10:33 AM
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Here comes the aftermath!


Case opened: Democrats begin public airing of Mueller report!
Quote:
President Donald Trump says it’s “case closed.” But Democrats are just getting started with Robert Mueller .

House Democrats have scheduled a series of hearings this coming week on the special counsel’s report as they intensify their focus on the Russia probe and pick up the pace on an investigative “path” — in the words of Speaker Nancy Pelosi — that some of them hope leads to impeachment of the president.

In doing so, they are trying to draw the public’s attention on the allegations that Trump sought to obstruct a federal investigation and they want highlight his campaign’s contacts with Russia in the 2016 election.
Quote:
The House Judiciary Committee plans to cover the first topic at a Monday hearing on “presidential obstruction and other crimes.” The House Intelligence Committee on Wednesday intends to review the counterintelligence implications of the Russian meddling. Mueller said there was not enough evidence to establish a conspiracy between the Trump campaign and Russia, but he said he could not exonerate Trump on obstruction.

On Tuesday, the House has scheduled a vote to authorize contempt cases against Attorney General William Barr and former White House counsel Donald McGahn for failing to comply with subpoenas from the Democratic-controlled House.
I just hope enough of the US public is paying attention.
  #11706  
Old 06-09-2019, 10:38 AM
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Case opened: Democrats begin public airing of Mueller report!I just hope enough of the US public is paying attention.
This will actually be a very good impeachment barometer. They don't have to impeach yet; they can find out a lot just by talking about what's actually in the effing report that the effing media, for whatever reason, can't be bothered to discuss. Call it the Mueller Report book club. Televise it. Invite people to testify, if for no other reason than to verbally corroborate what's in the report.

If the polls shift in favor of impeachment, then we'll know it's time for impeachment. If not, well, then we'll know it might be time to move on.
  #11707  
Old 06-09-2019, 02:25 PM
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If he came out of his residence wearing nothing but underwear on his head, they would claim he was sleep walking. Or it's a new fashion style.
Or that he was fully clothed, and his nudity was FAKE NEWS from Crooked Hillary.
  #11708  
Old 06-09-2019, 02:43 PM
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...If he came out of his residence wearing nothing but underwear on his head, they would claim he was sleep walking. Or it's a new fashion style.
Here ya go.

If he ever does wear ONLY his underwear on his head and nothing else ... ... I will probably have to gouge my eyes out.
  #11709  
Old 06-09-2019, 02:48 PM
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According to The Guardian (and Michael Wolff...), Mueller's team had an indictment against Trump written up and ready to go:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...e_iOSApp_Other

Wolff says that Mueller wrote it up.

Obviously, there's the question of whether it's a real thing at all - the fact that someone other than Wolff has seen it is certainly encouraging, though it's strange that it's a British source. Conceivably, they're just saying it because they don't have to care about America's libel laws.

If it is real, though, then my assumption would be that it either predates Mueller (e.g., having been written by McCabe or Comey or someone) or was done up by someone on his team, without being asked to. So, it probably is true that Mueller didn't write one up.

Last edited by Sage Rat; 06-09-2019 at 02:49 PM.
  #11710  
Old 06-09-2019, 02:56 PM
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Didn't we go through this already?
  #11711  
Old 06-09-2019, 03:09 PM
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If so, I missed it. Sorry, it was new to me and I'm pretty good at checking the thread usually.
  #11712  
Old 06-09-2019, 06:28 PM
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Quite the opposite. Failure to impeach gives Trump all the proof he needs to claim total exoneration. "The Democrats couldn't prove a thing!" will be his campaign centerpiece.
Trump will repeatedly crow 'the Democrats couldn't prove a thing!' whether or not an impeachment vote is taken.

(Anyone want to bet actual money on the contrary?)

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No impeachment guarantees a Trump reelection.
Well, we are speculating. For my money, a Senate acquittal guarantees a Trump reelection. And the Senate can provide him that glorious moment of Vindication/Exoneration/Exaltation only if the House votes to impeach.

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Anything short of a conviction and he'll say that ...
Yep.

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I'm not saying we can't impeach, just not now. ...
I have repeatedly said (in Elections if not in this thread) that impeachment must remain on the table. Trump definitely has earned an impeachment.

The question is, what are the likely consequences of impeaching? Right now: the aforementioned Senate acquittal, an end to investigation of Trump's wrongdoing (how can the House hold hearings on a guy who's been declared innocent?), and a magnificently-large margin of victory in the 2020 election.

What are the likely consequences of impeaching six months from now? We don't know. It's entirely possible that enough GOP Senators will have heard from enough constituents that they are Sick and Tired, and that a vote to exonerate Trump will mean that Senator will lose his-or-her seat.

If that happens, an impeachment vote might be appropriate. Why hesitate at that point? Because Americans have a history of 'giving people a fair chance:'

If Pence is untarnished by any Russian connections or other issues, and becomes President after a Senate vote to convict Trump (sometime between now and November 2020), then there is likely to be a preponderance of voters who take the position 'none of this is Pence's fault---we should give him a fair chance as President---vote Pence 2020. Jeez, the guy has earned it!'

So despite all the eagerness to see a vote to impeach Trump, it might be smart to wait on that vote until....later.

Vote to censure him, now. He's earned that, too.
  #11713  
Old 06-09-2019, 06:37 PM
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The Mueller report is over. It's over. The Republicans have successfully muffled its findings, and even congress people haven't read it. It's all done. It required an AG willing to whitewash the findings, and deliver his summary, and that's what stuck. Mueller himself, out of frustration, held a press conference telling congress that it was up to them to do something about it. Democrats are too worried about the results of the next election to actually do anything about it, so the Mueler report is over. There will be no further Trump ramifications whie he's in office, and possibly not when he's out.
  #11714  
Old 06-09-2019, 07:51 PM
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Yes. But.

He's been rattled since he won. Claiming that Clinton got a lot of illegal votes, and claiming that he had a bigger inauguration crowd than Obama.

Pelosi may hope that something finally sets him over the edge. My question is - "What edge"? His supporters (including senate republicans) don't care how big of a fuck up he is. Hell, they APPLAUDE it.

If he came out of his residence wearing nothing but underwear on his head, they would claim he was sleep walking. Or it's a new fashion style.
As we learned with Falstaff, people like a funny man, until people begin to understand that his bullshittery has a price. It's all fun and entertainment until people start paying a price for his fuck-ups.

President Trump is President Falstaff, minus the intoxication.
  #11715  
Old 06-10-2019, 03:31 AM
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Case opened: Democrats begin public airing of Mueller report!I just hope enough of the US public is paying attention.
“Hope” is such an inspiring attitude...
  #11716  
Old 06-10-2019, 01:47 PM
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John Dean on in fifteen...
  #11717  
Old 06-10-2019, 02:04 PM
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I can't believe I'm about to see John Dean testify before Congress on Presidential improprieties AGAIN.
  #11718  
Old 06-10-2019, 02:06 PM
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I can't believe I'm about to see John Dean testify before Congress on Presidential improprieties AGAIN.
No fucking joke. But we can't be any more surprised than he is to be doing it.
  #11719  
Old 06-10-2019, 02:12 PM
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"171 contacts"?! I hadn't heard that number before.
  #11720  
Old 06-10-2019, 03:15 PM
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And we're questioning John Dean because.....? Mueller gave us 400 pages of possible miscreants to testify, shouldn't the House committee be grilling some of those folks?
  #11721  
Old 06-10-2019, 03:28 PM
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And we're questioning John Dean because.....? Mueller gave us 400 pages of possible miscreants to testify, shouldn't the House committee be grilling some of those folks?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Humphrey
What's wrong with a kiss, boy? Hmm? Why not start her off with a nice kiss? ... You don't have to go leaping straight for the clitoris like a bull at a gate.
Prelims, dude. Gotta warm the crowd up.

Is it just me or does Mr. Gohmert sound scared/nervous? His voice is cracking and wavering like crazy.
  #11722  
Old 06-10-2019, 03:29 PM
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And we're questioning John Dean because.....? Mueller gave us 400 pages of possible miscreants to testify, shouldn't the House committee be grilling some of those folks?
It's not just him. It's a panel of people (including former federal prosecutors Barbara McQuade and Joyce Vance, who will be familiar to MSNBC watchers) discussing various aspects of Mueller's report.

Last edited by Walken After Midnight; 06-10-2019 at 03:32 PM.
  #11723  
Old 06-10-2019, 03:34 PM
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It's not just him. It's a panel of people (including former federal prosecutors Barbara McQuade and Joyce Vance, who will be familiar to MSNBC watchers) discussing various aspects of Mueller's report.
... and not even being broadcast on MSNBC. CSPAN had the hearing on briefly, but even they cut away. No one is broadcasting it, which completely sucks.
  #11724  
Old 06-10-2019, 03:38 PM
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It's pantomime time! Heeere's Jim Jordan...
  #11725  
Old 06-10-2019, 03:39 PM
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Ddamn! Mr. Dean just caught out Mr. Jordan in a lie! That was pretty sweet.
  #11726  
Old 06-10-2019, 03:40 PM
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... and not even being broadcast on MSNBC. CSPAN had the hearing on briefly, but even they cut away. No one is broadcasting it, which completely sucks.
It's all over YouTube. I'm watching CNBC's live stream right now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8p6B4qqUOmI
  #11727  
Old 06-10-2019, 03:41 PM
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A Republican Congressman Just Proudly Declared, on National Television, That He Hasn't Read the Mueller Report

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Rep. Rob Woodall joined MSNBC's Kasie Hunt and declared he has not read the report, he will not read the report, and na-na-na-na-na I can't hear you.
  #11728  
Old 06-10-2019, 03:46 PM
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Wheres that guy who kept talking about Kilimnik?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehill...partment%3famp

Lol. Turns out the guy was working for the FBI informing on Yanukovych.

“State officials told the FBI that although Kilimnik had Ukrainian and Russian residences, he did not appear to hold any allegiance to Moscow and was critical of Russia's invasion of the Crimean territory of Ukraine.

"Most sources of information in Ukraine were slanted in one direction or another," Kasanof told agents. "Kilimnik came across as less slanted than others."

"Kilimnik was flabbergasted at the Russian invasion of Crimea," the FBI added, summarizing Kasanof's interview with agents.”
  #11729  
Old 06-10-2019, 04:01 PM
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It's all over YouTube. I'm watching CNBC's live stream right now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8p6B4qqUOmI
How I wish this were an option for me. Severely limited bandwidth restrictions due to too-rural living.

Love hearing that John Dean caught out Jim Jordan, Turd Extraordinaire, in a lie, though!
  #11730  
Old 06-10-2019, 04:23 PM
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Wheres that guy who kept talking about Kilimnik?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehill...partment%3famp

Lol. Turns out the guy was working for the FBI informing on Yanukovych.

“State officials told the FBI that although Kilimnik had Ukrainian and Russian residences, he did not appear to hold any allegiance to Moscow and was critical of Russia's invasion of the Crimean territory of Ukraine.

"Most sources of information in Ukraine were slanted in one direction or another," Kasanof told agents. "Kilimnik came across as less slanted than others."

"Kilimnik was flabbergasted at the Russian invasion of Crimea," the FBI added, summarizing Kasanof's interview with agents.”
Thank you for that breaking news from a 4-day-old opinion column. Keep up the great work, comrade!
  #11731  
Old 06-10-2019, 04:32 PM
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I appreciate the honesty coming from showing us the Google Search which brought about this Vast Wealth of Knowledge on Farnaby's part. Usually, I just link to the article directly, but he's helping us know his foundational knowledge of this is seconds, maybe minutes deep.
  #11732  
Old 06-10-2019, 04:36 PM
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Yes the pleas continue to be copped openly and unabashedly.
  #11733  
Old 06-10-2019, 04:45 PM
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Wheres that guy who kept talking about Kilimnik?
I'm that guy.

Even if everything John Solomon wrote in that opinion piece is true ("He is known for biased reporting in favor of conservatives, and of repeatedly manufacturing faux scandals"), it doesn't change the fact that interactions between Kilimnik and Manafort are plainly and straightforwardly collusion.
  #11734  
Old 06-10-2019, 05:19 PM
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It's kind of funny listening to the Republicans recite the same exact phrase about how cooperative Trump was in allowing people to testify and in how many documents they provided. The exact same phrase. It's clearly a pre-arranged thing; I hope that somebody at The Daily Show or something sees it too and does a montage.
  #11735  
Old 06-10-2019, 05:35 PM
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How I wish this were an option for me. Severely limited bandwidth restrictions due to too-rural living.
Some Twitter updates here.
  #11736  
Old 06-10-2019, 05:45 PM
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Ddamn! Mr. Dean just caught out Mr. Jordan in a lie! That was pretty sweet.
In case it's not all over the evening news, would you mind giving us a recap?
  #11737  
Old 06-10-2019, 05:58 PM
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It was small but significant, IMO.

Mr. Jordan was characterizingdemonizing John Dean he said, "you're a convicted felon, convicted of obstruction of justice; you served time in prison-"

John Dean: I did not serve time in prison.

Long pause as Mr. Jordan looks at Mr. Dean, eventually acknowledging getting caught.
  #11738  
Old 06-10-2019, 06:07 PM
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Hah! Cool.

That does appear to be the Republican MO, when confronted with facts they don't want to hear - ad hominem attacks on the messenger. You've done something unsavory in the past, therefore we shan't hear a word you say lalalalallalala.
  #11739  
Old 06-10-2019, 06:54 PM
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Hah! Cool.

That does appear to be the Republican MO, when confronted with facts they don't want to hear - ad hominem attacks on the messenger. You've done something unsavory in the past, therefore we shan't hear a word you say lalalalallalala.
It also serves the purpose of intimidating potential witnesses.

You think you want to provide the American people with information about the Trump Administration's doings? You really think you want to? Watch Matt Gaetz spend ten minutes hurling the nastiest of insults at John Dean, and think again!
  #11740  
Old 06-10-2019, 08:04 PM
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... and not even being broadcast on MSNBC. CSPAN had the hearing on briefly, but even they cut away. No one is broadcasting it, which completely sucks.
...a cautionary tale to those who believe that impeachment hearings in 2019 are going to have the same impact as they did in 1974.
  #11741  
Old 06-10-2019, 09:01 PM
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Some Twitter updates here.
Thank you. I took a friend to the Amtrak station to see her off home, so missed whatever may have been live broadcast from about 1:30 PDT till now. She has Verizon internet access on her iPhone, so we did watch a little over a late lunch. McQuade and Vance were masterful, and John Dean was surprisingly fresh and sharp. Takes a lot to rattle him.
  #11742  
Old 06-10-2019, 09:08 PM
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Just saw a twitter clip of the Gaetz - Dean exchange. Holy crap, did Gaetz get owned.

Kinda reminded me of this:

https://imgur.com/6c2uiu8
  #11743  
Old 06-11-2019, 12:04 AM
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I didn't see all four hours of the proceedings, but Dean seemed to consistently get the better of his Republican attackers from what I saw. He, Vance and McQuade did a great job.

Today's hearing doesn't appear to have received a high level of attention in the news, so I'm not sure how much it's going to push the needle with the general public. It's good that Vance and McQuade's high-quality analysis has now been put down on record with the committee, though, and essentially preserved for history, as MSNBC videos on Youtube might not last forever.

I wonder if the biggest potential effect might perhaps even be on the Republican members of the committee. Having had to listen to Dean, Vance and McQuade for hours, they should now at least have a better understanding of what this committee's investigation is about, especially if they haven't read the Mueller report and/or are only aware of the Barr/Fox News version of things.
  #11744  
Old 06-11-2019, 01:40 AM
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Wheres that guy who kept talking about Kilimnik?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehill...partment%3famp

Lol. Turns out the guy was working for the FBI informing on Yanukovych.

“State officials told the FBI that although Kilimnik had Ukrainian and Russian residences, he did not appear to hold any allegiance to Moscow and was critical of Russia's invasion of the Crimean territory of Ukraine.

"Most sources of information in Ukraine were slanted in one direction or another," Kasanof told agents. "Kilimnik came across as less slanted than others."

"Kilimnik was flabbergasted at the Russian invasion of Crimea," the FBI added, summarizing Kasanof's interview with agents.”
I'm Kirill guy not Kilimnik guy, but I'd be curious to know what you see in that that's exonerating of anyone?

Are you under the impression that people who work for anyone who gives them some money are more or less reliable and trustworthy than those who choose a master and stick to them?
  #11745  
Old 06-11-2019, 03:50 AM
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...a cautionary tale to those who believe that impeachment hearings in 2019 are going to have the same impact as they did in 1974.
That's no doubt true, but there were no principals involved today, it's not that surprising that a helicopter crash in Manhattan trumped it.

I'm also guessing CNN and MSNBC might have had some qualms about showing the testimony of their pundits live, notwithstanding their qualifications credentials-wise.

Dean missed a great chance when the Repub asked him if they should get out some candles and a Ouija board to summon up Nixon, or whatever exactly he said. Dean shoulda said, "Well, we can try it if you want."

If I have to, I will buy the PPV to see Jim The Wrestling Goon Jordan vs. Mueller.
  #11746  
Old 06-11-2019, 05:52 AM
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That's no doubt true, but there were no principals involved today, it's not that surprising that a helicopter crash in Manhattan trumped it.

I'm also guessing CNN and MSNBC might have had some qualms about showing the testimony of their pundits live, notwithstanding their qualifications credentials-wise.
In 1973-74, there were a handful of major networks that all wanted to get the same story. In 2019, there are hundreds of networks, and there are millions of websites. People use computers more than they watch TV. It's harder to keep our attention these days, which is why I think that comparisons to Watergate are simply not that valid.

The way to get Americans' attention is to hand them a pink slip, or to make them worry they might get one soon.
  #11747  
Old 06-11-2019, 07:55 AM
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Even the Washington Post today had just a mention of it about 1/3 of the way down their home page.
  #11748  
Old 06-11-2019, 08:06 AM
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Originally Posted by bobot View Post
Even the Washington Post today had just a mention of it about 1/3 of the way down their home page.
Think about what the Washington Post was in the early 1970s. It was one of the most widely-read and respected newspapers in the country, and while it's still a good source of information, there's a generation today that has grown up with daily newspapers mostly free and online. The pace of news moves so much faster. The volume of news is so much greater. We live in a different world. Teenagers today aren't going to come home, turn on the news, and watch hours of live hearings with mom, dad, and crazy Uncle Bob shouting at the screen with his can of Schaeffer's in hand - they're just not. Sorry. They'll probably come home and whip out the Playstation instead while the parents watch Netflix and crazy Uncle Bob types in all caps on Facebook.
  #11749  
Old 06-11-2019, 08:42 PM
John_Stamos'_Left_Ear is offline
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Why are you all comparing actual impeachment hearings with... whatever is happening in Congress now?

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  #11750  
Old 06-11-2019, 08:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UnwittingAmericans View Post
... If I have to, I will buy the PPV to see Jim The Wrestling Goon Jordan vs. Mueller.
Oh, man, that would be epic.

A face-off of any of the modern-day Three Stooges (Jordan, Gaetz, and Gohmert) versus Mueller, would set a pay-per-view sales record. (Well, among politics nerds, anyway.)
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