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Old 03-23-2020, 12:48 AM
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...from the President of the United States: WE CANNOT LET THE CURE BE WORSE THAN THE PROBLEM ITSELF


...I think this deserves its own thread, because the implications are pretty fucking terrifying.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The President of the United States
WE CANNOT LET THE CURE BE WORSE THAN THE PROBLEM ITSELF. AT THE END OF THE 15 DAY PERIOD, WE WILL MAKE A DECISION AS TO WHICH WAY WE WANT TO GO!
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...35285916782593

Posted an hour ago.

There is nobody steering the ship. I'm honestly at a loss as to what to say here. The chaos merchants like Steve Bannon and the believers in the rapture like Mike Pompeo must be rubbing their hands with glee.
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Old 03-23-2020, 01:08 AM
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He sure knows how to drive down the market. Look for more chaos ahead.
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Old 03-23-2020, 01:16 AM
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It's much worse than nobody steering the ship. We have a deranged, arrogantly ignorant captain who's determined to ram us into every iceberg in the ocean.
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Old 03-25-2020, 11:14 AM
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It's much worse than nobody steering the ship. We have a deranged, arrogantly ignorant captain who's determined to ram us into every iceberg in the ocean.
More like he's saying "We have to steer close to those icebergs, because the penalty for steering further away and taking longer is too high!"
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Old 03-23-2020, 01:19 AM
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WTF is that even supposed to mean, "which way to go"? At the end of two weeks he'll decide whether or not to make the cure worse than the disease?

I guess if the country doesn't kiss his butt enough in the next two weeks, he'll make a decision to kill us all. Although he's pretty much been doing that anyway so how can we tell the difference?
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Old 03-23-2020, 01:50 AM
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WTF is that even supposed to mean, "which way to go"? At the end of two weeks he'll decide whether or not to make the cure worse than the disease?
...I think this was all prompted by this Fox News story. He's just parroting what he saw on TV because that is what he does. Fox New literally has the ability to manipulate the most powerful man in the world. Its all really fucking terrifying to be honest.
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Old 03-23-2020, 02:37 AM
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He's just parroting what he saw on TV because that is what he does.
It's not what he does--it's all he does. He doesn't have a clue--his head is completely up his ass, and the only thing he can see there is Fox News.
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Old 03-23-2020, 02:43 AM
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And what exactly is this "15 day" period he is talking about? When is the fateful Drop-Dead Day on which he will make his fateful decision?

Apparently this refers to March 16 through March 30.

Trump Says U.S. to Make a Decision on Coronavirus at End of 15-Day Plan, Reuters, March 23, 2020.

Quote:
Trump issued new guidelines on March 16 aimed at slowing the spread of the disease over 15 days.
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Old 03-23-2020, 06:47 AM
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...I think this was all prompted by this Fox News story. He's just parroting what he saw on TV because that is what he does. Fox New literally has the ability to manipulate the most powerful man in the world. Its all really fucking terrifying to be honest.
Fox News has the ability to manipulate the Republican base. I'm sure you've seen those interviews of people standing in line to get into Trump rallies: They get their news exclusively from Fox and say things similar to "thank goodness we have one news channel that tells it like it is and not that lame-stream media."

He knows he has to follow their lead because they are leading the voters that will keep him in power.
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Old 03-24-2020, 12:24 AM
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Fox News has the ability to manipulate the Republican base. I'm sure you've seen those interviews of people standing in line to get into Trump rallies: They get their news exclusively from Fox and say things similar to "thank goodness we have one news channel that tells it like it is and not that lame-stream media."

He knows he has to follow their lead because they are leading the voters that will keep him in power.
Trump puts the "rob" in Ouroboros.
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Old 03-23-2020, 05:02 AM
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WTF is that even supposed to mean, "which way to go"? At the end of two weeks he'll decide whether or not to make the cure worse than the disease?
...

He is at heart a con man. You'll notice that just like a ponzi criminal he is always promising that something is going to happen. Soon. Believe me.
But when it comes to demonstrable acions and results... eh, soon, OK? Soon.
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Old 03-23-2020, 05:13 AM
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It's like he doesn't even realise he's a near-80-year-old in bad shape
Maybe the virus will end his presidency one way or another.
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Old 03-23-2020, 05:53 AM
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We're fucked, y'all.
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Old 03-23-2020, 06:38 AM
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WTF is that even supposed to mean, "which way to go"? At the end of two weeks he'll decide whether or not to make the cure worse than the disease?
It means that he has no idea what to do. He is just saying something to make it look like he is in charge.
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Old 03-23-2020, 06:45 AM
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It means get ready for more polarization. If you thought the country was bitterly divided already...you haven't seen shit yet.

This is going to get very, very ugly, and the republican party has been telegraphing this all along in subtle and not-so-subtle ways. They tried to jam corporate goodies in through a 'stimulus' bill, and democrats have called them on it.

Unfortunately, the real underlying problem in all of this, the thing that enables republicans to get away with their blatant corruption is that Americans - people generally - are dumb. We're too dumb for democracy. We're dumb. We're incurious. We're apathetic. But now, worst of all, we're dumb, incurious, politically apathetic - and scared shitless. Scared shitless about what happens to our finances, and our health.

And that makes "us" (them) dangerous.
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Old 03-24-2020, 06:39 AM
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It means that he has no idea what to do. He is just saying something to make it look like he is in charge.
That's pretty much been the situation since he took office.
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Old 03-23-2020, 12:41 PM
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WTF is that even supposed to mean, "which way to go"? At the end of two weeks he'll decide whether or not to make the cure worse than the disease?
It means that he's giving the illegal alien Chinese virus until the end of the week to vacate the premises. If it hasn't by then, he'll send in ICE to arrest and deport it.
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Old 03-23-2020, 04:12 PM
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WTF is that even supposed to mean, "which way to go"? At the end of two weeks he'll decide whether or not to make the cure worse than the disease?

I guess if the country doesn't kiss his butt enough in the next two weeks, he'll make a decision to kill us all. Although he's pretty much been doing that anyway so how can we tell the difference?
He means that he's going to tell everyone to forget saving grandma, the stock market is more important, "get back to work y'all lazy bums".

Trump needs the economy to be good, to win his re-election.

Of course, his core voting base is older so he seems to be forgetting the flip side of the coin.

Last edited by Sage Rat; 03-23-2020 at 04:12 PM.
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Old 03-24-2020, 03:00 AM
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WTF is that even supposed to mean, "which way to go"? At the end of two weeks he'll decide whether or not to make the cure worse than the disease?
It means Trump considers this a trial period. After two weeks of kicking the tires and taking it for a spin the president will decide if we keep it or not.

Personally I'm still torn between Covid-19 and the Marburg virus. But I think Donnie is leaning towards Covid. Partly because it sounds like Covfefe, but also because it's the new thing. It's fresh. It's hot. Shiny. Sexy.

I guess either one of those or even a boring old chestnut like smallpox will do the trick so... meh.
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Old 03-23-2020, 01:23 AM
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It's like he doesn't even realise he's a near-80-year-old in bad shape
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Old 03-23-2020, 05:09 PM
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It's like he doesn't even realise he's a near-80-year-old in bad shape
He needs to show us how he's fixed the problem by going to a treatment center and giving hugs to all the patients.
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Old 03-23-2020, 01:30 AM
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Is there an emergency measure someone can invoke that relieves the president of his duties for abandoned recklessness endangering hundreds of thousands if not millions of lives? Like Queeg in "The Caine Mutiny," that on a lesser scale? The 2016 voters are now stewing in their own soup.
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Old 03-23-2020, 05:34 PM
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Is there an emergency measure someone can invoke that relieves the president of his duties for abandoned recklessness endangering hundreds of thousands if not millions of lives? Like Queeg in "The Caine Mutiny," that on a lesser scale? The 2016 voters are now stewing in their own soup.
God help my liberal, democracy-loving soul, I started wondering today if a military coup would be all that bad.
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Old 03-23-2020, 02:57 AM
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...

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Old 03-23-2020, 04:54 AM
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Is there an emergency measure someone can invoke that relieves the president of his duties for abandoned recklessness endangering hundreds of thousands if not millions of lives? Like Queeg in "The Caine Mutiny," that on a lesser scale? The 2016 voters are now stewing in their own soup.
Yes, the 25th amendment to the Constitution has just such a procedure. Unfortunately, it requires the VP and the cabinet members to initiate the process and I don't see that happening unless Trump becomes physically disabled to the point where he can't even talk.

Last edited by dtilque; 03-23-2020 at 04:56 AM.
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Old 03-23-2020, 10:02 PM
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Yes, the 25th amendment to the Constitution has just such a procedure. Unfortunately, it requires the VP and the cabinet members to initiate the process and I don't see that happening unless Trump becomes physically disabled to the point where he can't even talk.
Yeah, I'm aware of the 25th Amendment, but that's not what I was talking about, because it's a process and might take too long, and, as you say, requires action from his own party members. That will never happen. I was more wondering about exigent circumstances, like hundreds of thousands of lives are imminently in danger due to the president's reckless actions, which would allow someone to walk into the oval office tomorrow and say to the president, "Please come with us, sir." My inquiry was pretty much in jest.
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Old 03-24-2020, 02:09 PM
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104 posts over 15 years and you waste it on this shit?
Putin is playing a very long game.
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Old 03-23-2020, 07:30 AM
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You Can’t Gaslight a Pandemic, Donald!
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Old 03-23-2020, 07:51 AM
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I'm still trying to wrap my mind around this.

He advocated widespread use of medication that is not yet thoroughly tested, with side effects that could well be worse than the disease, and is tweeting this?!
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Old 03-23-2020, 08:03 AM
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We're about to see how the "Suck it up, buttercup" and "Get over it, snowflake" crowd handles COVID-19. I don't expect them to take it well, but I don't expect any reflection or introspection, either. My forecast instead calls for right winger nutters to advocate for more projection, racism, and calls to put liberal commies in jail - or worse.
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Old 03-23-2020, 07:45 PM
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I'm still trying to wrap my mind around this.

He advocated widespread use of medication that is not yet thoroughly tested, with side effects that could well be worse than the disease, and is tweeting this?!
Donald Trump has no plan. He never really has a plan; he has a general idea for how he should act, which worked for him in limited arenas like being a conman, but in a big, complicated problem he is just reacting literally by the minute. Trump understands nothing at all about what's happening.

So his affinity to the malaria drug could end on Thursday. His hinting that they might lift lockdown restrictions on March 30 might be forgotten by 10 PM tonight, or might change five times between now and March 30. All that matters to Trump is

1. Does it make money for me?
2. Does it make people impressed with me?

That's it. If you told Trump that there was a pandemic strategy that would kill twenty million Americans, but that he would make money and get re-elected, he would absolutely choose that over a strategy that killed no one and caused him to lose the election. I am not exaggerating by even a little bit. He himself could not formulate that strategy, or any real strategy, but he'd choose to kill his countrymen for his own benefit every single time.

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I'm unclear on why we still need a multi trillion dollar stimulus package if we are opening everything back up again though.
So rich people can loot the treasury. The moment this started getting bad, the rich people were getting in line to steal as much as they could. No fucking wonder socialism is back in vogue. If the state will not deliver justice, the mob will.
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Old 03-23-2020, 07:47 PM
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If the state will not deliver justice, the mob will.
Aye.
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Old 03-23-2020, 10:08 PM
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Donald Trump has no plan. All that matters to Trump is

1. Does it make money for me?
2. Does it make people impressed with me?

That's it.
This is what I've been saying over and over for the past three years, and it hasn't changed with a pandemic.

However, there is another matter for Trump that is tangential to #2: How can he keep the economy from tanking, and if he can't, how can he spin it so that he can claim it's not his fault? Because he knows his re-election depends on that.

If the economy gets so bad that no one will believe his bullshit, then he's doomed, so right now he's freaking out.
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Old 03-23-2020, 08:10 AM
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IF we had competent leadership something like that statement could be acceptable. Public health actions SHOULD be adjusted based on changing information. Ramp up or down in response to quality data assuming you have it and qualified experts are analyzing it and advising on the nationally coordinated adjustments.

Unfortunately that is not what we have.
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Old 03-23-2020, 09:55 AM
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You can dislike the messenger all you want, and you can reasonably disagree on what the implications of such an approach would be, but it's hard to objectively argue against the message itself. Something about a house and a mouse, I once heard...
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Old 03-23-2020, 10:08 AM
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You can dislike the messenger all you want, and you can reasonably disagree on what the implications of such an approach would be, but it's hard to objectively argue against the message itself.
No, it's really not.

It's hard to argue against the abstraction... naturally, cures shouldn't do more harm than diseases.

Speaking objectively and concretely, Trump is arguing that the problem itself (millions of people getting infected and dying) cannot be worse than the cure (a stock market that makes Trump look bad).

Only a sociopath like Trump or his supporters would find this confusing in any way, shape, or form.
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Old 03-23-2020, 11:02 AM
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Speaking objectively and concretely, Trump is arguing that the problem itself (millions of people getting infected and dying) cannot be worse than the cure (a stock market that makes Trump look bad).
That's what you think it means, a bad stock market? Gosh, what a narrow (and telling) perspective.
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Old 03-23-2020, 11:07 AM
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Since the main purpose of this thread seems to be to express outrage, it's more appropriate to the Pit.

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Old 03-23-2020, 12:00 PM
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Quote:
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Speaking objectively and concretely, Trump is arguing that the problem itself (millions of people getting infected and dying) cannot be worse than the cure (a stock market that makes Trump look bad).
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That's what you think it means, a bad stock market? Gosh, what a narrow (and telling) perspective.
Actually, HMS isn't far off. What's the worst thing Trump believes can happen to him? Anything which makes him look bad, including a bear market.

Last edited by Skywatcher; 03-23-2020 at 12:01 PM.
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Old 03-23-2020, 01:59 PM
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That's what you think it means, a bad stock market? Gosh, what a narrow (and telling) perspective.
It sounds like you have better information than I do. Would you care to share it?
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Old 03-23-2020, 02:15 PM
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That's what you think it means, a bad stock market? Gosh, what a narrow (and telling) perspective.
104 posts over 15 years and you waste it on this shit?
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Old 03-23-2020, 02:19 PM
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IF we had competent leadership something like that statement could be acceptable. Public health actions SHOULD be adjusted based on changing information. Ramp up or down in response to quality data assuming you have it and qualified experts are analyzing it and advising on the nationally coordinated adjustments.

Unfortunately that is not what we have.
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You can dislike the messenger all you want, and you can reasonably disagree on what the implications of such an approach would be, but it's hard to objectively argue against the message itself. Something about a house and a mouse, I once heard...
Your post is refuted by the post right before yours. It's not that I don't like the messenger, I don't trust the messenger. He's said innumerable stupid things about this issue already. From claiming that it would be over in a flash, that it was overblown by his political opponents, that he's done a great job of leading us... I don't believe he is capable of weighing the impact of his decisions to make a reasoned choice.

He's just going to pick something, he's not REALLY going to understand the implications, so this "message" is meaningless because it depends on having an understanding of the scope of the COVID pandemic and the far reaching implications of social distancing, and he doesn't.
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Old 03-23-2020, 02:37 PM
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The second part isn't bad. It's basically what every other world leader has been saying - we take measures now, we reassess whether to continue those measures, later. (Since they're based on scientific recommendations, the answer is likely going to be 'yes, we will', at least for the next several months.)

The problem is the first line. It tells us that he's biased against whatever helps contain the outbreak (ie: the cure), if it's inconvenient.

Last edited by Kamino Neko; 03-23-2020 at 02:38 PM. Reason: accidentally a word.
  #44  
Old 03-23-2020, 01:10 PM
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IF we had competent leadership something like that statement could be acceptable. Public health actions SHOULD be adjusted based on changing information. Ramp up or down in response to quality data assuming you have it and qualified experts are analyzing it and advising on the nationally coordinated adjustments.

Unfortunately that is not what we have.
True. And heís right that in theory we could take actions in the name of a cure that would be worse than the disease. Thatís why weíve accepted the increased risk caused by keeping grocery stores and pharmacies and the businesses that supply them open, because the likely outcome of shutting down the food supply chain WOULD be worse than the disease.

But Trump wont be capable of striking the proper balance because still doesnít understand the dynamics of exponential growth and heís too stupid to grasp it. I could probably negotiate a good deal with him by offering to work for a dollar the first day if he doubled my pay every day for a month.

HE JUST DOESNíT GET IT.

I called this a few days ago, even though Iím not going to hunt down the post. It was based on seeing Pence constantly showing that 15 Days to Slow The Spread pamphlet. He didnít talk about it that much but he always held it in camera view.
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Old 03-23-2020, 09:59 AM
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"Everyone dies" is a lot worse that "the made-up way we trade goods and services isn't functioning as well as we'd like", IMO. YMMV.
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Old 03-23-2020, 09:11 PM
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I know I'm going to catch fire and brimstone for this but...I sort of agree with Trump. He's still a moron and he only tweeted this because he has (likely) lost million$ in the markets but I am concerned that we are overreacting. We've got posts like this:

Quote:
"Everyone dies" is a lot worse that "the made-up way we trade goods and services isn't functioning as well as we'd like", IMO. YMMV.
C'mon, not everyone is going to die. I know it's hyperbole but even still it's over the top.

We've so politicized the response to COVID that we can no longer have a rational discussion. People are comparing this to the Spanish Flu and we already know that the mortality rate of COVID is not the same.

My fear is that when when this finally dies down and we are able to examine the results it'll end up being similar to a bad flu. Which is still bad--80k people have died in a year from the flu--but in the end Trump would look like the sane one who didn't go into hysterics.

Just because Trump says something doesn't mean we have to fly in the opposite direction.
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Old 03-23-2020, 09:36 PM
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C'mon, not everyone is going to die. I know it's hyperbole but even still it's over the top.

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We've so politicized the response to COVID that we can no longer have a rational discussion.
Bullshit
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People are comparing this to the Spanish Flu
Bullshit.
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My fear is that when when this finally dies down and we are able to examine the results it'll end up being similar to a bad flu.
You're clearly a fucking moron. That's your fear?
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Which is still bad--80k people have died in a year from the flu--but in the end Trump would look like the sane one who didn't go into hysterics.
Then why did he declare a state of emergency? Why did he close borders?

Take your uninformed, stupid-ass opinions, your partisan opinions, and swallow them whole.

Then go volunteer at a hospital without PPE, if you think it isn't a big deal.

You won't.

Last edited by Snowboarder Bo; 03-23-2020 at 09:40 PM.
  #48  
Old 03-23-2020, 10:32 PM
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People are comparing this to the Spanish Flu
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Bullshit.
No, that one's spot on. Those people are idiots for making the comparison but they are making it.
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Old 03-24-2020, 02:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Deeg View Post
We've so politicized the response to COVID that we can no longer have a rational discussion. People are comparing this to the Spanish Flu and we already know that the mortality rate of COVID is not the same.
How do you know that?

Actual experts - people who have medical degrees and spent a lifetime working in public health and related fields - will not commit to a definitive mortality rate for covid. On what do YOU base your conclusion and what are your credentials for making that determination?

Also, there's a difference between the mortality rate for a disease when the healthcare system is intact and when it's overwhelmed.

First, we saw Italy's hospitals overrun, with gurneys lining the hallways gasping desperately for breath, dying because there weren't enough respirators to go around. Now we have video of patients lying not in beds but on the floors of Spanish hospitals because their system is overwhelmed.

It's not that it's possible for that to happen here, the way we are going it WILL happen here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deeg View Post
My fear is that when when this finally dies down and we are able to examine the results it'll end up being similar to a bad flu. Which is still bad--80k people have died in a year from the flu--but in the end Trump would look like the sane one who didn't go into hysterics.
Ha! I think it far more likely that even before this is over people will be whining "why weren't we TOLD?!?" You were. But you didn't believe the warnings and didn't take it seriously.

Again - actual experts - people who have medical degrees and spent a lifetime working in public health and related fields - are estimating this has 10 times the death rate of regular flu (or five times, or twenty times). On what do you base YOUR conclusions, and what are your credentials for saying so?
  #50  
Old 03-23-2020, 10:44 AM
ThelmaLou's Avatar
ThelmaLou is offline
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I guess for trump, losing money is worse than death.
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