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  #51  
Old 03-24-2020, 07:55 PM
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No, I'm asking how said bailout "stops the spread of contagion"?
The bailout has two purposes. One is to support our medical system, in order to slow the contagion, and the other one is to prevent the economy from crashing, by supporting businesses hit badly by all the shelter orders (hotels, cruise companies, restaurants, arts, bars, etc., etc.). At some point, we'll all be able to go back outside again, and we want those businesses to still exist when we do.

So, not every part of the bailout is to slow the contagion. Did you think that's the only problem here? Have you noticed the mass layoffs, collapsing stock market, massive spikes in unemployment claims?
  #52  
Old 03-24-2020, 08:01 PM
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I can see both sides, when nobody is looking politicians tend to cram all kinds of shit into bills like this. I don't want to see corporations make out like bandits with this: stock buybacks, CEO raises, lack of accountability of where the money is going, but I also think money for the arts, post office, environmental regulations should also not be included.

All those issues are important but this should be a streamlined bill that can take effect immediately, these other issues should be dealt with later so they can be argued on their merits and debated and fleshed out properly. People out of work need that money now.
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Last edited by pool; 03-24-2020 at 08:02 PM.
  #53  
Old 03-24-2020, 08:17 PM
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We're in a weird place where the significant negotiations right now aren't happening between the House and Senate, but essentially between Senate Democrats and Trump. I'm almost unsure what Pelosi's move is here--unless she's trying to bring pressure to those negotiations, and/or give Trump a face-saving move, where he can say "I kept Democrats from passing a pork bill" when he passes the bill that Senate Dems really want.
  #54  
Old 03-24-2020, 08:25 PM
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It means businesses and individuals will be less desperate and thus less likely to unwisely go back to work or otherwise stop social distancing, increasing the spread of the disease.
I'm 99.9% sure the Kennedy Center is closed for the duration. How are they going to back to work?
  #55  
Old 03-24-2020, 09:10 PM
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Originally Posted by D'Anconia View Post
No, I'm asking how said bailout "stops the spread of contagion"?
This is a non sequitur, and unless you can very clearly explain how it relates to the conversation, it'd be lovely if everyone would drop it.
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Old 03-24-2020, 10:12 PM
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I can see both sides, when nobody is looking politicians tend to cram all kinds of shit into bills like this.
Everybody is looking. Everybody.
  #57  
Old 03-24-2020, 10:39 PM
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This is a non sequitur, and unless you can very clearly explain how it relates to the conversation, it'd be lovely if everyone would drop it.
No. See post #23, where the poster asked whether "facilitating vote-by-mail has no relationship to curtailing the spread of contagion".

Same question for funding an already closed performing arts center.

Last edited by D'Anconia; 03-24-2020 at 10:42 PM.
  #58  
Old 03-25-2020, 05:23 AM
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I'm 99.9% sure the Kennedy Center is closed for the duration. How are they going to back to work?
If their employees are desperate, they may go back to work with other jobs, and thus spread the disease.
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  #59  
Old 03-25-2020, 06:16 AM
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Originally Posted by D'Anconia View Post
No. See post #23, where the poster asked whether "facilitating vote-by-mail has no relationship to curtailing the spread of contagion".

Same question for funding an already closed performing arts center.
As I mentioned, not every item in the stimulus package is about slowing contagion. Some of it is about keeping the economy alive during the pandemic and some of it is having an economy when the pandemic is over.

Do you only argue against positions you want to?
  #60  
Old 03-25-2020, 07:23 AM
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Originally Posted by D'Anconia View Post
No. See post #23, where the poster asked whether "facilitating vote-by-mail has no relationship to curtailing the spread of contagion".

Same question for funding an already closed performing arts center.
Given that "curtailing the spread of the contagion" is only one aspect of "coronavirus relief," yeah, it is a non sequitur, and it should get dropped as such, apology optional.
  #61  
Old 03-25-2020, 07:39 AM
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I'm 99.9% sure the Kennedy Center is closed for the duration. How are they going to back to work?
I'm 99.9% sure you can figured out the answer on your own. It's okay to ask for hints though.
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  #62  
Old 03-25-2020, 10:32 AM
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All those issues are important but this should be a streamlined bill that can take effect immediately, these other issues should be dealt with later so they can be argued on their merits and debated and fleshed out properly.
You must be confusing the U.S. Senate under Mitch McConnell for a legislative body where this will be permitted.
  #63  
Old 03-25-2020, 11:15 AM
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My husband called from his car to say that he had just listened to an NPR article on the radio about this bill. He was sure he heard that the bill guaranteed workers their full pay for four months, as in full employer pay.

I'm reading this NPR article online now and the relevant bit is this:

Quote:
An extended unemployment insurance program that will extend benefits to laid-off workers that will allow for four months of full pay rather than the usual three months for most. It will also raise the maximum unemployment insurance benefit by $600. It will apply to traditional workers for small and large businesses as well as those who are self-employed and workers in the gig economy. This was a key Democratic initiative, which Schumer dubbed "unemployment insurance on steroids."
This sounds like the "full pay" is full unemployment pay, not full pay equal to that from your employer just previous to layoff, which is what my husband is asserting.

Last edited by teela brown; 03-25-2020 at 11:15 AM.
  #64  
Old 03-25-2020, 09:59 PM
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This sounds like the "full pay" is full unemployment pay, not full pay equal to that from your employer just previous to layoff, which is what my husband is asserting.
Sort of. Actually, the bill would extend unemployment benefits to up to 39 weeks at $600 more than the regular unemployment benefit. Which has caused some Senate R's to point out that for some of the lower-tier workers that would mean their unemployment check is higher than their regular check was, and Sen. Sasse is proposing an amendment to cap that.

Meanwhile, employers who DO keep their furloughed employees on the payroll would get a 50% credit on the salary up to $10,000 per employee for the time that happened, qualified quarterly, when forced to close including by lockdown order as well as the disease itself or business loss (with a number of thresholds to meet), up to end of year.

Last edited by JRDelirious; 03-25-2020 at 10:02 PM.
  #65  
Old 03-26-2020, 11:00 AM
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What’s in the $2 Trillion Senate Coronavirus Bill:
How households, businesses, taxes and more are affected by the package

http://archive.is/NYOB3

No increase in food stamps, but lots of goodies for business.
  #66  
Old 03-26-2020, 11:43 AM
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What’s in the $2 Trillion Senate Coronavirus Bill:
How households, businesses, taxes and more are affected by the package

http://archive.is/NYOB3

No increase in food stamps, but lots of goodies for business.
Increasing food stamps would just encourage people to go out and get groceries, helping to spread the virus! The Republicans just have their best interests in mind. Maybe they could boil and eat the bootstraps they should be pulling themselves up by. <\sarcasm>
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