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  #101  
Old 03-11-2020, 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted by AK84 View Post
^^
It depends on whether there are sufficient Republicans to support him.
In the US a person does not become President-elect on election night. Or when the electoral college votes. They become it when the result is certified by Congress.

If the election is disputed enough, even with an ostensible Biden/Sanders win, do you guys really think (lets say there is a Republican majority in Congress) that the 'Pubs will not support Trump.

They refuse to certify Biden and instead force it to the House? Voting in state delegations? You think they aren't capable of that. Refuse the returns from enough states to prevent a 270.
The naive part of me would like to think the reaction by Republicans would be similar to the guys with the furry hats in this scene from The Wizard of Oz:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aopdD9Cu-So

But I'm sure that's too much to hope for.
  #102  
Old 03-15-2020, 12:45 PM
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Trump Constitutionally Could Remain President Even if He Loses 2020 Popular and Electoral Votes, and He Knows It.
  #103  
Old 03-15-2020, 12:58 PM
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Thank you for making things worse.
  #104  
Old 03-15-2020, 01:11 PM
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Originally Posted by DChord568 View Post
The naive part of me would like to think the reaction by Republicans would be similar to the guys with the furry hats in this scene from The Wizard of Oz:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aopdD9Cu-So

But I'm sure that's too much to hope for.
I can see them doing that, providing he starts one of his typical bullshit claims that he lost because of "voter fraud." And he would probably do that, if he thought that they would oblige him.

He wouldn't wait until the last minute, though, so it wouldn't be a case of his refusing to "leave office peacefully and normally." He would start the process as soon as the media claimed his loss.
  #105  
Old 03-15-2020, 01:38 PM
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I knew there had to be some process like this waiting in the wings. Senate Republicans and Trump are way too comfortable with being ghastly out in the open, no obvious fear of being run out of office in November. They flip the bird at us every single day. No politician does that unless they are confident they will stay where they are.

It also goes some way toward explaining the puzzling loony behavior of formerly "sane" Republicans like Lindsey Graham. You're going to end up either in the in group or the out group. Your choice.

I have never doubted Michael Cohen's words at his hearing. We must pay them heed. Trump is going to pull anything and everything to stay in office.
  #106  
Old 03-15-2020, 07:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Aspenglow View Post
I knew there had to be some process like this waiting in the wings. Senate Republicans and Trump are way too comfortable with being ghastly out in the open, no obvious fear of being run out of office in November. They flip the bird at us every single day. No politician does that unless they are confident they will stay where they are.
Or they could simply realize what the electorate that got Trump into office to begin with is like. :P

What I don’t get is why Congressional Republicans would WANT some kind of Trump dictatorship. Even if they’re in the “in group” now, surely they realize that they wouldn’t remain there for long, and that Trump would have no intention of rewarding or protecting such a group, especially when he doesn’t need them anymore. I can see them wanting for him to remain a duly elected President for as long as possible, but it seems to me they have little solid to gain and a lot to lose by keeping him in power beyond that. Same with the corporate donors who support them. Sure, there are probably a few dangerously naive politicians who think they’d be living the high life with President For Life Trump, but those with real authority? I’m a bit skeptical.

None of this is to say that Trump won’t try, of course. I’m just wondering what’s in it for the people who keep him in office because of the Supreme Court and their constituencies to help Trump make both of those irrelevant when they know he’s not going to give them jack for it.

By the way, there was another link that claimed that the Speaker of the House would become president if elections were postponed or canceled. The circumstance being talked about in the linked article doesn’t evoke the same thing, does it?
  #107  
Old 03-15-2020, 08:09 PM
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Or they could simply realize what the electorate that got Trump into office to begin with is like. :P

What I don’t get is why Congressional Republicans would WANT some kind of Trump dictatorship. Even if they’re in the “in group” now, surely they realize that they wouldn’t remain there for long, and that Trump would have no intention of rewarding or protecting such a group, especially when he doesn’t need them anymore. I can see them wanting for him to remain a duly elected President for as long as possible, but it seems to me they have little solid to gain and a lot to lose by keeping him in power beyond that. Same with the corporate donors who support them. Sure, there are probably a few dangerously naive politicians who think they’d be living the high life with President For Life Trump, but those with real authority? I’m a bit skeptical.

None of this is to say that Trump won’t try, of course. I’m just wondering what’s in it for the people who keep him in office because of the Supreme Court and their constituencies to help Trump make both of those irrelevant when they know he’s not going to give them jack for it.

By the way, there was another link that claimed that the Speaker of the House would become president if elections were postponed or canceled. The circumstance being talked about in the linked article doesn’t evoke the same thing, does it?
Those are all fair points, Leaper. With respect to your question, no, I don't see where it does.

What scares me so much is that Trump has succeeded with what I thought were his delusional goals far beyond what I believed the established institutions in this country would permit him to do. He has usurped powers I thought would never be allowed to be granted to him. For an administration to defy Congressional subpoenas, ignore summons for witnesses, to assert a bullshit privilege ("absolute immunity") that simply doesn't exist, to ignore the Hatch Act, hand wave away the Emoluments Clause, all to avoid compliance with norms/traditions many of which have been in effect since practically our country's founding... well, I now put nothing past him or those who have enabled him.

Congressional Republicans and corporate interests may not want him as President for Life, but I think they have fooled themselves into believing they can control him for another 4 years and beyond. We will not recognize this country if he has another 4 years. Hell, I barely recognize it now.

So yeah, a little worried.
  #108  
Old 03-15-2020, 09:19 PM
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What I don’t get is why Congressional Republicans would WANT some kind of Trump dictatorship.
As to that, everybody should read or watch Isabel Allende's House of the Spirits. The right-wing senator supports the fascist coup, thinking it will benefit the conservative side. Damn, was he ever wrong! The fascists have no respect for anybody, and they destroy the liberals and conservatives alike. They destroy his own family and he comes to understand too late what that bargain with the Devil meant.
  #109  
Old 03-16-2020, 09:58 AM
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Perhaps I'm an optimist at heart (I'm not), but he can't be enjoying any part of this, and the longer he is forced to "manage" this crisis, and the longer he is faced with a crumbling economy, the less he will be inclined to remain the focal point of blame. This is a man who needs adoration and praise. If he is not "winning" he is a "loser" and that is too much for his fragile ego. I suspect he can't wait to lose this election and pass the buck to the next administration so he can sit on the sidelines and tweet without restrained like the asshole that he is. I just hope the various law enforcement agencies currently investigating him don't lose interest once he leaves office.
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  #110  
Old 03-16-2020, 10:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Aspenglow View Post
Those are all fair points, Leaper. With respect to your question, no, I don't see where it does.

What scares me so much is that Trump has succeeded with what I thought were his delusional goals far beyond what I believed the established institutions in this country would permit him to do. He has usurped powers I thought would never be allowed to be granted to him. For an administration to defy Congressional subpoenas, ignore summons for witnesses, to assert a bullshit privilege ("absolute immunity") that simply doesn't exist, to ignore the Hatch Act, hand wave away the Emoluments Clause, all to avoid compliance with norms/traditions many of which have been in effect since practically our country's founding... well, I now put nothing past him or those who have enabled him.

Congressional Republicans and corporate interests may not want him as President for Life, but I think they have fooled themselves into believing they can control him for another 4 years and beyond. We will not recognize this country if he has another 4 years. Hell, I barely recognize it now.

So yeah, a little worried.
Well said Aspenglow. But the crazy thing is that Trumps goals are simple -
  1. Stay out of prison.
  2. Line my pockets with other peoples money.
  3. 1/4 Pounder with cheese, extra ketchup, and no icky pickles.

That's it. That's all he can hold in his head. That's the President of the United States. We have seen him try to speak, we know this.

We also know that he can't make choices or decisions on his own. He is being told what to do by outsiders. Some in the Senate, some perhaps from other countries. He is being pulled in many directions, and all he really wants is someone to adore him and a cheeseburger.

Trump isn't 'losing it'. He never had it. He is a careless crook that can't see beyond his gold plated toiled and the gold diggers of all stripes that suck up to him.
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  #111  
Old 03-28-2020, 01:14 PM
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The thing is, it's Trump himself floating the idea of overstaying his welcome. He's done so more than once. He also thinks himself a king in all but name and tried to buy Greenland.

Having said that, I don't see how Trump's threats can be anything but hollow. He can hide under the Resolute desk if he wants to, but the real president can have him removed bodily with no trouble.

I wouldn't be concerned with his staying after his term end, but his blustering on about doing so should make one wonder about how he views his office and his job, and what other dumb awful things he'll do.
However, there is period of time between election and being sworn in--he is still President (which also includes Commander in Chief) until then, so who knows what he could do?
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