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  #101  
Old 03-07-2020, 02:40 AM
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Originally Posted by dba Fred View Post
I’m not so sure, I did/do think Biden would have been labeled as a third Obama term/more of the same and that would have been a handicap in the change/do something-anything atmosphere of 2016.
It would have put Obama in a difficult position: does he endorse his Vice President or his former Secretary of State? Or say something like “I respect both candidates and want to see the process play out and will endorse the candidate who wins our party's convention”?
I meant four. Instead of Hillary.
  #102  
Old 03-07-2020, 01:38 PM
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We'll need some cites for this. Start with the Trump speech in #45. Tell us what you think of it and/or point to speech by a younger Trump that was just as deranged.
I'm not going to sit down and watch a hit piece that claims that Trump is like Charles Manson. Its like one of those infowars things where I can make a meaningless list that (insert democrat here) is like Josef Stalin because they have such similarities like being in favor of workers rights, are concerned about the rise of Naziism, or are concerned about income inequality.

In any event, the hit piece claims that Trump is a cult leader like Manson. That is not what we are talking about it this thread.


If that's the best you got then I declare victory.
  #103  
Old 03-07-2020, 02:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Saintly Loser View Post
Sorry, but that doesn't even make sense. We're being asked to vote for a candidate in a spectacularly important election, perhaps the most important in some of our lives.

But we don't have a right to consider a candidate's fitness for the job?

Seriously, that's nonsense.


And, furthermore, I didn't "diagnose" Biden. I said that, based on my experience with men of his age with dementia, I see some similarities, and that concerns me.
There's a difference between saying "the guy ain't right" and diagnosing dementia. But whatever. At least threads like this give the Bernie guys some false hope, I suppose.
  #104  
Old 03-07-2020, 02:26 PM
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Originally Posted by CarnalK View Post
There's a difference between saying "the guy ain't right" and diagnosing dementia. But whatever. At least threads like this give the Bernie guys some false hope, I suppose.
Read carefully.

I am not a "Bernie guy." Not everyone who has observed Joseph Biden for many years and thinks he's slipping a bit is that mythical creature, a Bernie Bro.

I specifically said that I am not "diagnosing" Biden. I do observe some similarities between Biden and other elderly men I have known who have been diagnosed, by professionals, as having dementia. That's just a fact.

And you do not get to set the rules by which people determine who will get their vote. You cannot dictate that people may not say certain things, or speculate about mental health, because the wrong people (the "Bernie guys" again) might get some false hope if they read it. I mean, I know there's a party line and everything, but it's not enforceable.

And finally, what's your problem? I specifically said, in the post that provoked your ire, that if Biden wins the nomination, I'm going to vote for him. I'm sure he'll be happy to have my vote even if I do think he's showing signs of cognitive decline. If you're a Biden fanboy, take it. Really. A vote is a vote.
  #105  
Old 03-07-2020, 02:35 PM
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I am not going to read that carefully. I stopped when I got to "I am not a "Bernie guy"' as I was not suggesting you were.
  #106  
Old 03-07-2020, 03:51 PM
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Originally Posted by UltraVires View Post
I'm not going to sit down and watch a hit piece ...

If that's the best you got then I declare victory.
Nobody's asking you to watch a video. Just read the short transcript already quoted in #45, and tell us what you think.

Biden suffers ordinary tongue-slippage, possibly exacerbated by old age. Trump's quoted speech in #45 exhibits some personality disorders. I'd like to hear psychiatrists' assessments of that bizarre rant, but first I want to hear from you.
  #107  
Old 03-07-2020, 04:25 PM
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Originally Posted by septimus View Post
Nobody's asking you to watch a video. Just read the short transcript already quoted in #45, and tell us what you think.

Biden suffers ordinary tongue-slippage, possibly exacerbated by old age. Trump's quoted speech in #45 exhibits some personality disorders. I'd like to hear psychiatrists' assessments of that bizarre rant, but first I want to hear from you.
So, you believe that a transcript of a single speech can show a personality disorder? In any event, we are not discussing personality disorders. We are talking about whether Biden suffers from dementia. However like every other thread on the SDMB, it turns into how utterly evil Trump is, so people are saying that Trump has suffered a further mental decline than has Biden. Nobody is talking about personality disorders.
  #108  
Old 03-07-2020, 05:21 PM
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So, you believe that a transcript of a single speech can show a personality disorder? In any event, we are not discussing personality disorders. We are talking about whether Biden suffers from dementia. However like every other thread on the SDMB, it turns into how utterly evil Trump is, so people are saying that Trump has suffered a further mental decline than has Biden. Nobody is talking about personality disorders.
Now you mention Trump, I think there is a similarity with him and Biden. They have both spent their lives glibbly talking shit for the advancement of their own interests and their cronies. Trump in his rich kid bully businessfail man way and Biden in his centrist shell of human, placeholder way.

It's such a thin veneer in the first place, that now they are old and the cracks appear, they are very obvious. There is no content or conviction behind the men, so when their brains fail, they fail spectacularly.
  #109  
Old 03-07-2020, 10:43 PM
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Well, at least he's saying what everyone's thinking.
  #110  
Old 03-07-2020, 10:54 PM
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In an article about why it's misinformation to suggest his brain is mush:
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“The only test that hasn’t been done is the cognitive functioning test,” Olshansky added. “But the fact that he’s on the campaign trail and meeting a rigorous travel and meeting schedule probably would suffice as a replacement for the formal test for cognitive functioning.”
So a doctor is saying that turning up places is enough. I'd have thought his staff would arrange everything so I don't see the relevance but that dude is a doctor.
  #111  
Old 03-07-2020, 10:58 PM
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Have we ever had an 80 year old president before? If Bernie or Biden wins they will be both be prez in their eighties. How old is Orangey-face? I really think their ought to be an upper age limit. Maybe 74-75 should be the cutoff for running for either a first or second term. And make the oldest a sitting president could be - 79.
  #112  
Old 03-08-2020, 06:38 AM
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Originally Posted by UltraVires View Post
Is this what you are talking about? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQUaQo2j42Y

In that video I see Donald Trump twenty years younger. If you played the audio from that, I would bet anything that nobody here could tell if it was Trump 2020 or Trump 1999. Same arrogance, same brashness, same deflection of questions, same everything.

Could you point out something to me that Trump exhibits in the video that he no longer does which would support your assertion that he is losing it?
I just spent a while comparing this interview (Trump's first answer, at least) with the speech that Septimus quoted in post 45. They are in many ways very similar, word count, number of clauses, number of subordinate clauses, level of vocabulary. The main differences grammatically were the 14 sentence fragments in the later speech vs 3 in the earlier one, and the use of filler words, 10 in the later speech vs 0 in the first one.

What really stands out to me is the number of topics. It might be a bit subjective to decide whether or not different sentences are about the same topic, but I count 6 different topics in the first speech, 4 or 5 of which were relevant to the interviewer's question (depending on how random you think his analogy is). It goes:

negotiating with North Korea
street crime analogy
New York
NK nuclear weapons
nuclear proliferation
NK nuclear weapons
negotiating with NK
nuclear proliferation
Jimmy Carter negotiating with NK

So he jumps around a little bit, but mostly relates back to the interviewer's question.


In the second speech I count 9 topics, and there are a couple of sentences where I cannot work out what he is talking about. A bit over half the speech is about his credentials (including his uncle's), and his need to prove them. Another 30% is something vague about nuclear power, prisoners and negotiations, which I'm guessing was meant to be the topic. Topics:

my uncle's credentials
bias against Republicans
my credentials
nuclear something?
prisoners?
my uncle
[unclear]
number of prisoners
the messenger?
women are smarter than men
Iranians/negotiations

He jumps around a lot more. Some of his sentences are quite vague and some make very little sense. These things, combined with the number of sentence fragments and filler words make me think he is much less coherent now than he was 20 years ago.

Last edited by Weedy; 03-08-2020 at 06:41 AM.
  #113  
Old 03-08-2020, 03:56 PM
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Biden was in St. Louis yesterday and I watched his entire speech. He knew which city he was in; named-checked all the local politicians; dismissed his hecklers with a single sentence and got right back on message; spoke in complete sentences; and worked the rope line after he finished.

Based on my complete and thorough analysis of seeing a 10-minute campaign appearance, I feel completely qualified to declare that Joe Biden is absolutely, positively, the 100% most mentally ready person to be President in the history of American democracy. You got a problem with that?
  #114  
Old 03-08-2020, 08:25 PM
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Biden has seriously fucked up in the past but he seems mostly coherent.

Tramp continues to seriously fuck-over others and seems too incoherent.

Tramp and Putin *fear* Biden, thus the many attacks by their supporters.

We are judged by the positions we assume. I judge enemy assets harshly.
  #115  
Old 03-08-2020, 10:21 PM
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Is there a German word to describe the case where someone makes a terrible choice they ought to be thoroughly ashamed of, but instead desperately try to save face by pretending their choice was excellent so they don't look like a complete dunce?

Is Biden the best you could come up with, out of... checks... 327.200.000 million people? that's the best you could muster? It reeks of panic and if you complain about the low opinion the rest of the World has of Trump and how it reflects on the US I can tell you right now, Biden will lose you whatever respect you have left.
I mean, it's already doing that, I can only look and shake my head in pity.

A gibbering, corrupt, senile fool, yup, that's your man, well done.

You run a two party system and one half of that system is structured in such a way that it spits out that at the end, and you wonder how you got Trump? Hello McFly???

But hey, all's right as long as you can scapegoat your own failings on the Russians.
  #116  
Old 03-09-2020, 12:30 AM
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Oops, put an unnecessary "million" in there.

Nevertheless, all you have to do is find someone, anyone, more "presidential" than Trump, and you can't even do that.

On the other hand the Democratic Party in the US lost their collective mind after Trump's election, so perhaps it's only fitting they'll pick Biden to represent them.
  #117  
Old 03-09-2020, 02:39 AM
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@Ale: Your profile lists your location as Bangkok. A military junta runs Thailand. Are they your best and brightest?
  #118  
Old 03-09-2020, 02:02 PM
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@Ale: Your profile lists your location as Bangkok. A military junta runs Thailand. Are they your best and brightest?
I don't vote here since I'm not a citizen and have no say in the political situation, so that tu quoque is irrelevant.
It's also an embarrassing own goal, considering that my country, Uruguay (listed as "Full Democracy"), is ranked 10 places higher than the USA ("Flawed Democracy") in the Democracy Index.

You got Trump, and now you are getting Biden (which will lead to Trump staying put) in great part from a lack of self examination of your political processes and culture, which is not going to be solved by pointing fingers elsewhere.
  #119  
Old 03-09-2020, 02:23 PM
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Even if one is as pessimistic about Biden as one can be, there's a difference between incompetent and malevolent, on one hand, and incompetent and benevolent on the other.
  #120  
Old 03-09-2020, 03:33 PM
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Even if one is as pessimistic about Biden as one can be, there's a difference between incompetent and malevolent, on one hand, and incompetent and benevolent on the other.
And it's that, all other things being equal, benevolent beats malevolent?
  #121  
Old 03-09-2020, 10:49 PM
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Even if one is as pessimistic about Biden as one can be, there's a difference between incompetent and malevolent, on one hand, and incompetent and benevolent on the other.
You are in for a crushing disappointment if you think the nature of Trump's and Biden's incompetence cancels out.

But by all means, resign yourself to your political system elevating incompetent "leadership" to the top, it's going to work splendidly for the future.
  #122  
Old 03-10-2020, 12:08 AM
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You are in for a crushing disappointment if you think the nature of Trump's and Biden's incompetence cancels out.

But by all means, resign yourself to your political system elevating incompetent "leadership" to the top, it's going to work splendidly for the future.
Pfffft. You think anyone here buys your all knowing prophet shtick? You are clearly a little clueless on the process when you're decrying the "strategy" of selecting Biden. It's a vote. There was never a plan.
  #123  
Old 03-10-2020, 12:27 AM
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I wonder if some of Biden's odd phrasing comes from realizing partway through a sentence that it's leading to a word that he knows will be difficult to get out without stuttering (especially if fatigued from a long day campaigning), and trying to switch to a different word without completely losing his train of thought.
  #124  
Old 03-10-2020, 02:03 AM
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Nothing I have seen suggests he has dementia. This appears to be the typical Republican tactic of accusing your opponent of the things that are a problem for you. Trump, with his odd rambling speech patterns, has seemed like he has some mental issues. All Biden has done is not say some words clearly.

Normally I'd say it's not a good tactic, as you shouldn't use an attack that can be used back on you. But the strategy here is to try and get people to sit out the election, so making both candidates seem the same works. And then those who are left get forced into not mentioning Trump's mental issues.

It's an inoculation strategy, as well as a way to try and dampen enthusiasm.
  #125  
Old 03-10-2020, 02:09 AM
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Biden's problem will be his bullshitting like lying about being arrested in South Africa.
This, on the other hand, I do think will backfire. There are far, far more examples of Trump bullshitting that Biden. With one example, you can just claim that you misunderstood or something--you thought you were arrested, but they just took you in to question you for a bit and let you go.

But how do you deal with claiming that your inauguration crowd was larger than it actually was, that Muslims celebrated in the streets at 9/11, that global warming and coronavirus are a hoax, and so on. Those are just off the top of my head.

The dementia issue is harder to combat because any gaffe or mistake will be attributed to it. But bullshittery has concrete examples. And a good politician, unlike Trump, knows how to spin their bullshit, rather than just barrel on through.
  #126  
Old 03-10-2020, 01:08 PM
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Nothing I have seen suggests he has dementia. This appears to be the typical Republican tactic of accusing your opponent of the things that are a problem for you. Trump, with his odd rambling speech patterns, has seemed like he has some mental issues. All Biden has done is not say some words clearly.

Normally I'd say it's not a good tactic, as you shouldn't use an attack that can be used back on you. But the strategy here is to try and get people to sit out the election, so making both candidates seem the same works. And then those who are left get forced into not mentioning Trump's mental issues.

It's an inoculation strategy, as well as a way to try and dampen enthusiasm.
Joe's mental poise has been a topic since he said things that made it that. Liberals do not want to see him fail at going up against the orange.

Everyone is scared. And everyone is calling everyone elses fears irrational and projected.

He is a 90s candidate. It's just not that decade anymore.
  #127  
Old 03-10-2020, 02:23 PM
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He just cursed out a gun nut in Michigan: https://www.aol.com/article/news/202...-him/23945913/
  #128  
Old 03-10-2020, 03:02 PM
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He just cursed out a gun nut in Michigan: https://www.aol.com/article/news/202...-him/23945913/
My grandfather got like that toward the end. Not really his fault. He didn't know any better.
  #129  
Old 03-10-2020, 03:17 PM
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He just cursed out a gun nut in Michigan: https://www.aol.com/article/news/202...-him/23945913/
Your link doesn't provide the actual video. I've watched the actual video and it looks to me like Biden was being aggressively confronted with false accusations by a Trump supporter. Biden attempted to address the substance of the accusation as untrue but the guy got more and more in Bidens face. He had no interest in Biden's actual position, he just wanted to start a verbal fight. The guy was being an asshat and his proof that Biden wanted to confiscate his guns was "a viral video" he watched. After trying to talk to him repeatedly without success, finally telling the guy that he is "full of shit" seems like a reasonable response to me. Good for Joe!

To borrow a phrase - "Fuck his feelings".
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Last edited by MeanJoe; 03-10-2020 at 03:19 PM.
  #130  
Old 03-10-2020, 03:19 PM
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My grandfather got like that toward the end. Not really his fault. He didn't know any better.
I honestly can’t tell which of the two involved men you’re referring to.
  #131  
Old 03-10-2020, 05:03 PM
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Watching the video actually made me like him more. He did not curse anyone out though. He was quite calm and friendly and reasonable. He didn't even raise his voice. He was right there surrounded by a pack of angry autoworkers and he kept his cool and did a good job, I think.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3JGTBgLX2cQ
  #132  
Old 03-10-2020, 05:14 PM
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Watching the video actually made me like him more. He did not curse anyone out though. He was quite calm and friendly and reasonable. He didn't even raise his voice. He was right there surrounded by a pack of angry autoworkers and he kept his cool and did a good job, I think.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3JGTBgLX2cQ
I agree. That won't hurt Biden with most voters, who will see his reaction to the man confronting him as authenticity, and (as you mention) an ability to keep his cool when under verbal fire.
  #133  
Old 03-10-2020, 06:35 PM
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I've watched the actual video and it looks to me like Biden was being aggressively confronted with false accusations by a Trump supporter. Biden attempted to address the substance of the accusation as untrue but the guy got more and more in Bidens face. He had no interest in Biden's actual position, he just wanted to start a verbal fight. The guy was being an asshat and his proof that Biden wanted to confiscate his guns was "a viral video" he watched.
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He did not curse anyone out though. He was quite calm and friendly and reasonable. He didn't even raise his voice.
There was a viral video that was altered, but there is also a video where Biden claimed to want to ban "assault weapons." They both made inaccurate statements.

Of course the auto worker wasn't claiming that Biden was going to take all guns away. Biden at one point replied "I'm not taking your gun [singular] away at all.

Auto worker: "Machine guns are illegal"

Biden: "That's right, so are AR-15s illegal."

No, they're not.

He kinda cursed him out and he threatened physical violence. He said he was full of shit followed by "don't tell me that, pal, or I'm going to go outside with you, man."

Auto worker: "You're working for me, man!"

Biden: "I'm not working for you; don't be such a horse's ass."

I'd have more respect for him if he could have calmly explained that the video was altered to make it look like he said something that he didn't and moved on instead of immediately responding back with "you're full of shit."
  #134  
Old 03-10-2020, 06:46 PM
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There was a viral video that was altered, but there is also a video where Biden claimed to want to ban "assault weapons." They both made inaccurate statements.

Of course the auto worker wasn't claiming that Biden was going to take all guns away. Biden at one point replied "I'm not taking your gun [singular] away at all.

Auto worker: "Machine guns are illegal"

Biden: "That's right, so are AR-15s illegal."

No, they're not.

He kinda cursed him out and he threatened physical violence. He said he was full of shit followed by "don't tell me that, pal, or I'm going to go outside with you, man."

Auto worker: "You're working for me, man!"

Biden: "I'm not working for you; don't be such a horse's ass."

I'd have more respect for him if he could have calmly explained that the video was altered to make it look like he said something that he didn't and moved on instead of immediately responding back with "you're full of shit."


I didn't hear the "horses ass" part, but he said the "full of shit" part so mildly that to me it felt like how you'd talk to a friend who was making a food of themself. It didn't feel angry or like how you'd talk to an enemy.
  #135  
Old 03-10-2020, 06:53 PM
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That's the Biden I can vote for. Fuck that lying turd and his second amendment hysteria. He and his ilk needs to grow the hell up already.
  #136  
Old 03-11-2020, 12:06 AM
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I didn't hear the "horses ass" part, but he said the "full of shit" part so mildly that to me it felt like how you'd talk to a friend who was making a food of themself....
Maybe he should've told the guy to eat his own words, then.
  #137  
Old 03-11-2020, 12:09 AM
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Maybe he should've told the guy to eat his own words, then.
Hahaha

I hadn't noticed.
  #138  
Old 03-11-2020, 12:28 AM
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This whole thing is dumb, and is being amplified by Trump, unhappy Bernie voters, and Russian bots. That said, if you happen to be on Twitter, you can read an equally stupid chain of examples showing that Bernie is very clearly suffering from dementia. <shrug emoji>

https://twitter.com/wewillriseohio/s...101466113?s=21
  #139  
Old 03-11-2020, 11:54 AM
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He just cursed out a gun nut in Michigan: https://www.aol.com/article/news/202...-him/23945913/
Remember when Buzz Aldrin punched out the moon-landing denier? Buzz was 72 at the time.

Did people say Buzz was senile? Hell, no! They called Buzz a hero.
  #140  
Old 03-11-2020, 12:02 PM
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This whole thing is dumb, and is being amplified by Trump, unhappy Bernie voters, and Russian bots. That said, if you happen to be on Twitter, you can read an equally stupid chain of examples showing that Bernie is very clearly suffering from dementia. <shrug emoji>

https://twitter.com/wewillriseohio/s...101466113?s=21
Bernie boarding the wrong private jet made me laugh
  #141  
Old 03-11-2020, 02:15 PM
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Do we really want someone who insults voters? I will not vote for Biden.
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  #142  
Old 03-11-2020, 02:34 PM
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Do we really want someone who insults voters? I will not vote for Biden.
Your positive review of Don Jr.'s book "Triggered" thus becomes less surprising.

Last edited by Ravenman; 03-11-2020 at 02:36 PM.
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Old 03-11-2020, 02:38 PM
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Your positive review of Don Jr.'s book "Triggered" thus becomes less surprising.
I did not vote for Trump last time and I won't again.
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  #144  
Old 03-12-2020, 02:13 PM
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Ravenman, for your information, I voted early, I wasg Going to vote for Pete, but when he withdrew and supported Biden, I actually voted for Biden. I would never have done that without Pete suggesting it. Just because I can read books by people I don't agree with doesn't mean I endorse such books.
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Divide and conquer. Power to the people
  #145  
Old 03-12-2020, 03:34 PM
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Originally Posted by SuntanLotion View Post
Do we really want someone who insults voters? I will not vote for Biden.
If what is said is true, it's an observation, not an insult. If it's false, call-out the bullshit. Telling someone (even a voter) who is full of shit that they are full of shit is just realism. Meanwhile, I seem to recall this POTUS loudly insulting everyone within range: 16-year-old girls with autism; everyone of Latino or Asian heritage; any who disagree with him. A regular full-tilt insult engine, on the hoof, is our orange terror. In a word: Fuck.That.Shit.

Putin and his Oval Office puppy really fear Biden and desperately want Bernie as an easy target. As the old union song asks: Which side are you on? Biden bashers can find their answer.
  #146  
Old 03-12-2020, 05:04 PM
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Welp, here's Trump's address to the nation on about coronavirus.

And here's Biden's.

And here's Bernie's.

Sounds like two out of these three people understand what they're saying.
  #147  
Old 03-18-2020, 02:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Ryan_Liam View Post
He's done a couple of flubs with his lines, but some people have said he has obviously early on set dementia, with his light schedule and restricted meet and greets, if this is the case, how is this a good thing when he is going against Trump?
What do you think if you watch this video to the end?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...ature=emb_logo
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  #148  
Old 03-18-2020, 04:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Mangosteen View Post
What do you think if you watch this video to the end?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...ature=emb_logo
I think someone left the camera running after he finished the part of the message that was going to be recorded, and was hanging around waiting for the director, producer or campaign manager to tell him whether they needed to do a retake. And when no one did, his wife called him over.

I think outtakes do not equal dementia.

What do you think?
  #149  
Old 03-18-2020, 05:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kent Clark View Post
I think someone left the camera running after he finished the part of the message that was going to be recorded, and was hanging around waiting for the director, producer or campaign manager to tell him whether they needed to do a retake. And when no one did, his wife called him over.

I think outtakes do not equal dementia.

What do you think?
Indeed. It's the same thing that happened to Trump when the cameras kept rolling after his address last week. No big deal despite what opponents try to say.

https://twitter.com/leahmcelrath/sta...13880669683718

Moreover I saw Biden stand and debate for over two hours on Sunday. No sign of cognitive decline there. Some answers I disagreed with but not the appearence. It was his opponent who accidentally referred to Coronavirus as Ebola twice before correcting himself. The correcting himself bit cancels out the initial error imo.
  #150  
Old 03-18-2020, 06:29 PM
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This is a base canard spread by Bernie-bros without a hint of truth behind it.

It is the kind of attack that will insure 4 more years of trump, which is what they want.
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