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  #51  
Old 03-05-2020, 08:33 AM
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Probably not.

But GOPers weaponizing this attack is bullshit given Trump is much worse. Trump can't complete a sentence or even read off the teleprompter without slurring his words. He's in his element at rallies when his base allow him to wonder from one thing to another. Go watch that video of him ranting about toilets and how people flush 10 or 15 times before immediately moving onto dishwashers and back to corrupt democrats.

Oh and George W Bush.

"Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice...can't get fooled again"

Of course Biden is a bit of a fool. But his presidency will feature competent democrats and Obama era officials. A semblance of calm.
But isn't that just proof that GWB definitely didn't have dementia, he was just dumb and bad at words? If he had dementia back then, then it would have been impossible to hide by now.

If Biden now is more coherent than GWB back then, it's plausible that he's also just bad at words (as his past speeches have amply attested), not that it's dementia.
  #52  
Old 03-05-2020, 08:49 AM
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One, as Rob Reiner or the guy interviewing him said about I don't know what because I'm ADD and can't be expected to pay attention to every damn thing on MSNBC, "There's such a fine line between stupid and clever." Or senile and bumbly.

Two, based on one commercial break this morning, Obama has endorsed both Sanders and Biden.

Three, is there a happy middle between polished (artificial) and folksy (bumbly)?
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This seems to be pretty definitive.
posted by logicpunk at 10:07 AM on December 20, 2007 [3 favorites]
  #53  
Old 03-05-2020, 11:31 AM
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I think he would have won over a Trump 8 years ago.
I’m not so sure, I did/do think Biden would have been labeled as a third Obama term/more of the same and that would have been a handicap in the change/do something-anything atmosphere of 2016.
It would have put Obama in a difficult position: does he endorse his Vice President or his former Secretary of State? Or say something like “I respect both candidates and want to see the process play out and will endorse the candidate who wins our party's convention”?
  #54  
Old 03-05-2020, 12:13 PM
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Yes, he is senile af and I feel uncomfortable and cringey listening to him him speak. Watching him potentially debate Trump in the future I honestly feel embarrassed for him in advance.
  #55  
Old 03-05-2020, 12:26 PM
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Joe has never been eloquent. He has also never run for president before and managed the associated pressure and distraction. It is absolutely not surprising to me that a person of even average would lose his train of thought under the circumstances under which he as spoken publicly. That has fuck all to do with how well his noodle actually works when he is in a comfortable environment without someone waiting to gainsay his every word before it's even past his lips. Jesus' tits, he isn't my first choice either but I'm really getting tired of people making shit up about him in the absence of any other real problems.

Besides, even if he were getting soft in the head, so what? This loon can scream at that loon for 60 minutes and America can begin to feel as ashamed as it ought to for allowing either of them anywhere near the White House.
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Old 03-05-2020, 12:44 PM
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No idea. But if he did, all he would have to say in his defense is that he doesn't need to be dementia free, he just needs to have a lower level of dementia than Donald Trump.
God I love our two party system.
  #57  
Old 03-05-2020, 01:06 PM
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But isn't that just proof that GWB definitely didn't have dementia, he was just dumb and bad at words? If he had dementia back then, then it would have been impossible to hide by now.

If Biden now is more coherent than GWB back then, it's plausible that he's also just bad at words (as his past speeches have amply attested), not that it's dementia.
Couple that with his lifelong attempts to get over his stuttering and that seems right to me.
  #58  
Old 03-05-2020, 01:13 PM
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He looks pretty good compared to Trump.
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  #59  
Old 03-05-2020, 02:56 PM
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You think Jill Biden or the Obamas would let Joe embarrass himself on the national stage in this way?

What's delusional is to think that they would.
Then why hasn't Obama endorsed Biden? Obama wants nothing to do with that shit show.
  #60  
Old 03-05-2020, 03:42 PM
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My grandma has dementia, but she was MUCH sharper than he was at 77... Biden has always been a gaffer (and plagiarist) and this will only be highlighted because of YouTube, etc., if he is the nominee. He's been saying a lot of stupid stuff, doing a lot of stupid stuff (sniffing, touching), even bullying those who say they'd vote for him in the general.
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Old 03-05-2020, 04:09 PM
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Then why hasn't Obama endorsed Biden? Obama wants nothing to do with that shit show.
Alternatively, Obama has but one endorsement to give for his country and if he gives it now, 1) He might give it to someone who ends up not getting the nomination, and B) giving it to someone during the primaries would be seen as attempting to significantly influence the outcome. Just bad form all around. It is unfortunate that some people like to malinterpret that sort of restraint to suit their own agenda.

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  #62  
Old 03-05-2020, 04:40 PM
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I don't think Biden has dementia. He looks like the crypt keeper on the old tv show Tales From the Crypt. But he has always fumbled with his words.

It is unfortunate that society has a belief that in order to be intelligent you must be a polished speaker. In my business I know that such a thing doesn't correlate. I know many people who can speak eloquently but are dumb as a hammer. Others stumble and bumble over words, but give them time to think and write and they are brilliant.

Biden's problem will be his bullshitting like lying about being arrested in South Africa.
  #63  
Old 03-05-2020, 04:59 PM
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Biden is in some sort of cognitive decline.

Just go back and watch the '08 and '12 VP debates. He's a different man.
  #64  
Old 03-05-2020, 05:18 PM
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Biden is in some sort of cognitive decline.

Just go back and watch the '08 and '12 VP debates. He's a different man.
Unfair comparison. The Democratic primary debates have been food fights. Let's see how he does one-on-one with Bernie. That will be a fair comparison.
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Old 03-05-2020, 05:31 PM
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He stutters - that's not dementia


He has stuttered his whole life. Like other stutterers, when he's nervous or under pressure, as in a debate, he tends to stutter more. Like most people, he doesn't like showing any weakness, so he tries to avoid it, and that leads to his stopping mid-sentence and starting up again with the next thought.

It is not smooth, and it is annoying, but it does not affect his ability to think or work. I kind of like him better for it. We don't need another slick politician that has no understanding of the problems of real people.
  #66  
Old 03-05-2020, 05:39 PM
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Curious: would you vote for Biden if he let Sanders pick the VP?
Nope!

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Joe has never been eloquent. He has also never run for president before and managed the associated pressure and distraction.
Well, aside from the other two times he ran for president.
  #67  
Old 03-05-2020, 06:09 PM
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Well, aside from the other two times he ran for president.
Right. Naturally he ran those two times.
I blame my own early onset dementia.
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Old 03-05-2020, 06:14 PM
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Here, everyone who thinks he's NOT demented, please go through all the examples contained herein and report back to us on why you STILL think he's just fine and peachy. And to those who insist that Bernie getting a stent put in a few months ago disqualifies him due to health reasons--please to explain how Biden having surgery to correct two brain aneurysms (one was a centimeter wide!) in 1988 means there's no chance he's experiencing cognitive dysfunction due to the repairs and there's no reason to worry about his fitness to serve as president. Show your work.
  #69  
Old 03-05-2020, 07:38 PM
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Here's a 13 minute interview with Biden that was done this week. Watch it from start to finish. He meanders a little, but only in the context of taking a winding road to get to the answer.

Look, I'm 67 years old. I have old relatives and old friends. I've seen dementia close up. This isn't what it looks like.
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Old 03-05-2020, 07:42 PM
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Biden is in some sort of cognitive decline.

Just go back and watch the '08 and '12 VP debates. He's a different man.
You're talking about 12 and 8 years ago respectively. It's a pretty genetically strong human who is not different at age 66 and 70 versus 78.
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Old 03-05-2020, 07:44 PM
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He has stuttered his whole life. Like other stutterers, when he's nervous or under pressure, as in a debate, he tends to stutter more. Like most people, he doesn't like showing any weakness, so he tries to avoid it, and that leads to his stopping mid-sentence and starting up again with the next thought.

It is not smooth, and it is annoying, but it does not affect his ability to think or work. I kind of like him better for it. We don't need another slick politician that has no understanding of the problems of real people.
Look, I DON'T think Biden truly has dementia. But the stuttering isn't an excuse for most of the weird shit he's said. How did his stutter cause him to say "I got hairy legs and the little kids like to reach into the pool and rub my legs down"? How did his stutter cause him to say "look, fat, want to do some pushups?" to that dude who questioned him at the Town Hall? How did his stutter cause him to call that woman a "lyin' dog-faced pony soldier"? Those are just three of his outrageous gaffes off the top of my head, I'm sure if I did some searching I could find many more. I don't see how a stutter has any connection to the concept of making very ill-advised remarks.
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Old 03-05-2020, 08:04 PM
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Wow, we obviously need to understand the difference between dementia and the natural slowdown of cognition that comes with aging. And with Biden, there's yet another factor. So how much does aging affect cognition in each candidate? That's the real question.

A November, 2019 Atlantic Monthly article noted,

Quote:
Last month, Jimmy Carter, the 95-year-old former U.S. president, said that the office requires a person “to be very flexible with [one’s] mind,” and that by age 80 he wouldn’t have felt able to do the job.
Sanders will be 80 in two years. The thing about cognitive decline is that, like puberty, it doesn't occur at a steady pace or even the same pace in each individual. Sanders might be fine today but suffer a sharp decline in a couple years. Or not.

Trump, younger than either Sanders or Biden, has had the most obvious decline, possibly because he had the shortest distance to fall.

And then there's Biden.
Quote:
Joe Biden stays focused on single topics and ideas much more consistently than Trump, but he is often slower to find words than he was in the past. He veers sometimes into nonsensicality. In September, in response to a question about racism, he wandered into, “Play the radio, make sure the television—the, excuse me—make sure you have the record player on at night … make sure the kids hear words.”
(same article)

But how much of that is due to Biden's stutter? Don't assume that avoiding stuttering entails merely pausing in conversation. Another recent Atlantic article :
Quote:
Alpern [Emma Alpern, president of the National Stuttering Association] told me that she’s on a group text with other stutterers who regularly discuss Biden, and that it’s been “frustrating” to watch the media portray Biden’s speech impediment as a sign of mental decline or dishonesty.
When you have three top contenders in their seventies, their mental and physical health is perhaps more of a consideration than with younger candidates. That's not ageist. But lumping together all the possible factors and calling them dementia is.
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Old 03-05-2020, 08:09 PM
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While I like Biden and find his un-politicianlike candor refreshing, let's not paint him as something he's not- he's got a BA and a JD from reputable universities, and has spent his entire career as a lawyer (1969-1973), a Senator (1973-2016), or a professor (2017-2020- a sinecure, I don't doubt).

Anyway, he may be atypically plain spoken for a politician, but blue collar he is not, and never has been.
Fair enough. I shouldn’t have used blue collar.

But he attended public universities and, per Wikipedia, he grew up the middle class son of a car salesman. Biden didn’t grow up rich.

He also pretty famously never got rich from his career as a senator. While he has likely made a good of money since he retired from the Vice Presidency (what with speaking fees and book deals being available), he remained middle class during his time in congress.

https://www.politifact.com/factcheck...ong-poorest-g/
  #74  
Old 03-06-2020, 03:09 AM
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I don't think I'd call it dementia so much as normal slowing with age. He's lost a step, sure. He's still the best candidate in the field and definitely better than Donald Trump.
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Old 03-06-2020, 06:22 AM
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But how much of that is due to Biden's stutter? Don't assume that avoiding stuttering entails merely pausing in conversation.
I stutter. I have since, I guess, I was able to speak. I had speech therapy as a child. I still stutter, at 60. I've developed a whole bunch of tricks to deal with it, but at the end of the day, I don't care anymore. It's not my problem, it's the problem of those who can't deal with it.

And I'm the primary caretaker of my elderly father. I've watched him start to show signs of dementia when he was just about Joe Biden's age, some years ago, and get worse, to the point where he is no longer able to live on his own or manage his own affairs or prepare food or anything.

Biden looks to me like my father did at the beginning of the process. I'm sorry to say this, but it's true.

I'm entirely able to separate Biden's stutter (which appears to me to be quite mild, milder than my own) from what looks to me like the beginning of dementia.

I'm not a Bernie bro (someone upthread implied that those who believe Biden has mild dementia must be Bernie bros). I'm certainly not a Republican.

I'll vote for Biden in the general (assuming that Sanders doesn't pull off a miracle and take the nomination). But his choice of VP is really, really important, and I'm concerned about his ability to assess his own mental state and act accordingly, which might mean resigning the office if necessary.
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Old 03-06-2020, 08:38 AM
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Fair enough. I shouldn’t have used blue collar.

But he attended public universities and, per Wikipedia, he grew up the middle class son of a car salesman. Biden didn’t grow up rich.

He also pretty famously never got rich from his career as a senator. While he has likely made a good of money since he retired from the Vice Presidency (what with speaking fees and book deals being available), he remained middle class during his time in congress.

https://www.politifact.com/factcheck...ong-poorest-g/
That's what I'm trying to say. Saying someone's blue collar implies that they do some sort of working class job, and usually also implies some sort of trade or factory work- carpenter, pipefitter, truck driver, factory worker, etc...

Joe's definitely a white collar sort, even if he's not overly wealthy.
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Old 03-06-2020, 09:35 AM
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I stutter. I have since, I guess, I was able to speak. I had speech therapy as a child. I still stutter, at 60. I've developed a whole bunch of tricks to deal with it, but at the end of the day, I don't care anymore. It's not my problem, it's the problem of those who can't deal with it.

And I'm the primary caretaker of my elderly father. I've watched him start to show signs of dementia when he was just about Joe Biden's age, some years ago, and get worse, to the point where he is no longer able to live on his own or manage his own affairs or prepare food or anything.

Biden looks to me like my father did at the beginning of the process. I'm sorry to say this, but it's true.
Well, I'm sorry about your dad but you're not remotely qualified to diagnose over the television.
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Old 03-06-2020, 10:09 AM
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Sanders will be 80 in two years. The thing about cognitive decline is that, like puberty, it doesn't occur at a steady pace or even the same pace in each individual. Sanders might be fine today but suffer a sharp decline in a couple years. Or not.

Trump, younger than either Sanders or Biden, has had the most obvious decline, possibly because he had the shortest distance to fall.
Yes at this point the only Democratic alternative is older than Biden. Few say Sanders shows cognitive decline but if he were nominated or elected he might soon, or not, as you say. Besides a recent heart attack on the physical side.

Then, people will mainly interpret the relative mental acuity of Biden and Trump through the lens of their politics. Millions nationwide besides I assume a majority here would agree 'Trump has the most obvious decline'. Millions of others nationwide would not agree.

The risk for either side with a septuagenarian candidate is that it suddenly gets obviously worse, and I mean obvious to people with no interest in politics. In that regard I think Trump's relaxed (irresponsibly so arguably) approach to his office and fun campaigning in front of big crowds that love him (he doesn't go where he can't attract such crowds) is perhaps an advantage. Campaigning is obviously harder work for Biden, and his supporters want Trump out, rather than there being any real fan base for Biden (thus people challenging him at campaign events and, 'dog faced etc' from him when he gets cranky). OTOH, just realistically, once it's straight up Biden v Trump a lot of the media will be more ready to pounce on Trump than Biden, specifically broadcast news with the really big audiences compared to cable or internet blogs.
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Old 03-06-2020, 10:31 AM
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And then there's Biden.
(same article)

But how much of that is due to Biden's stutter? Don't assume that avoiding stuttering entails merely pausing in conversation. Another recent Atlantic article :
I read the transcript of the part where he said

Quote:
“Play the radio, make sure the television—the, excuse me—make sure you have the record player on at night … make sure the kids hear words."
and it's not as out in left field as it sounds; what he was getting at is that there's apparently a gap in the number of words that poor and not-poor children are exposed to by a certain age, and that in a lot of cases, parents don't really know what to do in order to close that gap and he suggests playing the radio or TV, and then corrects himself and suggest playing records at night as a way of exposing children to more words.

Now we can take the harsh approach and assume that Joe is just senile and crazy, and is talking about record players like Abe Simpson talked about onions on his belt or something, or we can take a more charitable approach and assume that he meant that parents should play the radio, or some sort of music at bedtime so that kids might be passively exposed to a greater number of words in daily life. And that when he said the television, he corrected himself in the thinking that the TV might not be the best bet for children(screen time and all that), and being an old fart, record player popped into his head as the primary source of pre-recorded music, rather than "stream some music off Spotify".

That's pretty excusable in my book. That's also not what dementia looks like. In my experience, dementia would be if he went off in the middle of his thing and started talking about something totally and completely unrelated and didn't seem to realize he'd done it.

Just getting the form of pre-recorded music wrong doesn't instantly point to dementia, and suggesting that it does is absurd.
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Old 03-06-2020, 10:38 AM
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Yes at this point the only Democratic alternative is older than Biden. Few say Sanders shows cognitive decline but if he were nominated or elected he might soon, or not, as you say. Besides a recent heart attack on the physical side.

Then, people will mainly interpret the relative mental acuity of Biden and Trump through the lens of their politics. Millions nationwide besides I assume a majority here would agree 'Trump has the most obvious decline'. Millions of others nationwide would not agree.

The risk for either side with a septuagenarian candidate is that it suddenly gets obviously worse, and I mean obvious to people with no interest in politics. In that regard I think Trump's relaxed (irresponsibly so arguably) approach to his office and fun campaigning in front of big crowds that love him (he doesn't go where he can't attract such crowds) is perhaps an advantage. Campaigning is obviously harder work for Biden, and his supporters want Trump out, rather than there being any real fan base for Biden (thus people challenging him at campaign events and, 'dog faced etc' from him when he gets cranky). OTOH, just realistically, once it's straight up Biden v Trump a lot of the media will be more ready to pounce on Trump than Biden, specifically broadcast news with the really big audiences compared to cable or internet blogs.
First, I think it we are simply looking at diminished mental faculties due to age, one would really have to be wearing a giant D partisan hat to think that Trump has declined more or even anywhere close to Biden. I'm not saying that Biden is ready for a nursing home, but there is some clear decline due to age that Trump frankly has not shown at all.

Many posters on this board don't particularly like Biden but they are supporting him because of their hatred for Trump. Many posters on this board would probably vote for pretty much any carbon based life form instead of Trump. That doesn't bode well for Biden. I can't really think of any campaign that has won on such a dynamic. Maybe Doug Jones v. Roy Moore, but we are nowhere near that.

Swing voters have not bought into the Anyone But Trump thinking and it will be difficult for Biden to get their support with his constant screw ups.
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Old 03-06-2020, 12:14 PM
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Biden has always struck me as gullible and unintelligent but it seems to be getting worse.

I really hope if he wins and the democrats win the senate that the democrats lick a very good vice president, senate majority leader, chief of staff and other important positions to kind of keep Biden in check.

The gop are going to take full advantage of how naive and desperate for consensus Biden is to constantly get him to move to the right, delay or water down his legislation and his nominations.
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Old 03-06-2020, 12:30 PM
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I really hope if he wins and the democrats win the senate that the democrats lick a very good vice president...
I'm sure that if Biden picks a female VP candidate, he'll find a way to lick her, or fondle her arm, or sniff her hair...

  #83  
Old 03-06-2020, 12:43 PM
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one would really have to be wearing a giant D partisan hat to think that Trump has declined more or even anywhere close to Biden.
Haven't people dug up multiple videos of Trump being interviewed twenty or more years ago where he's noticeably more coherent and articulate than he is now? Which is particularly telling when he's more coherent answering questions then (when you have to listen to someone else's question, process it, and formulate an answer) than in speeches and rallies now (when you get to control exactly what you say).

I think you'd have to be wearing a MAGA hat to think Trump hasn't declined significantly.

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  #84  
Old 03-06-2020, 12:46 PM
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Nate Silver's new projections: https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com...ex_cid=rrpromo

Chance of majority:

Biden 88%
No Majority 10%
Sanders 2%

Wow. What a turnaround.
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Old 03-06-2020, 01:13 PM
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Haven't people dug up multiple videos of Trump being interviewed twenty or more years ago where he's noticeably more coherent and articulate than he is now? Which is particularly telling when he's more coherent answering questions then (when you have to listen to someone else's question, process it, and formulate an answer) than in speeches and rallies now (when you get to control exactly what you say).

I think you'd have to be wearing a MAGA hat to think Trump hasn't declined significantly.
Trump has gone downhill far more than Biden. Biden just seems to be having issues with emotional regulation, keeping a train of thought and things like that.

Trump is much worse. His meet the press interview from the year 2000 may have been a different person.
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Old 03-06-2020, 02:06 PM
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Haven't people dug up multiple videos of Trump being interviewed twenty or more years ago where he's noticeably more coherent and articulate than he is now? Which is particularly telling when he's more coherent answering questions then (when you have to listen to someone else's question, process it, and formulate an answer) than in speeches and rallies now (when you get to control exactly what you say).

I think you'd have to be wearing a MAGA hat to think Trump hasn't declined significantly.
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Trump has gone downhill far more than Biden. Biden just seems to be having issues with emotional regulation, keeping a train of thought and things like that.

Trump is much worse. His meet the press interview from the year 2000 may have been a different person.
You are both talking about 20 years ago. Of course a 54 year old man will look more spry and articulate than a 74 year old man. That's not saying anything at all.
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Old 03-06-2020, 02:24 PM
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Well, I'm sorry about your dad but you're not remotely qualified to diagnose over the television.
I'm perfectly qualified to form my own opinion, actually. As are you.

So is your piont that, in a thread about whether or not Joseph Biden has early onset dementia, nobody should post?

Sorry, no. I have an opinion. Deal.
  #88  
Old 03-06-2020, 02:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Saintly Loser View Post
I'm perfectly qualified to form my own opinion, actually. As are you.

So is your piont that, in a thread about whether or not Joseph Biden has early onset dementia, nobody should post?

Sorry, no. I have an opinion. Deal.
Yes, actually. Nobody should post about it. It's idiotic to think anyone, let alone complete laymen, have any right to an opinion on this.
  #89  
Old 03-06-2020, 02:47 PM
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I wonder if it's more that his brain has turned into a waffle from a combination of age and force of habit. Imagine just always having to say nothing much about doing hideous evil while seeming folksy. You would just start to vacate your own stream of consciousness and let the words flow.

Without personal conviction other than trotting out what works to be a party leader, you end up with what seems like a badly programmed neural network because that's what it is.
  #90  
Old 03-06-2020, 02:51 PM
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Originally Posted by UltraVires View Post
First, I think it we are simply looking at diminished mental faculties due to age, one would really have to be wearing a giant D partisan hat to think that Trump has declined more or even anywhere close to Biden. I'm not saying that Biden is ready for a nursing home, but there is some clear decline due to age that Trump frankly has not shown at all.
I agree with this. I find Trump to be a completely odious, loathsome individual, but I have to concede that he is good at talking. Most of the people who bash his inarticulate speaking style are missing the point. He IS inarticulate, but he has good verbal timing. Maybe he uses Teleprompters much of the time, but even when he doesn't, he has very good command of dynamics (i.e. varying his volume for maximum delivery and building up to crescendos), timing (when to allow pauses for his words to sink in), doing call-and-response things with the audience - whether or not he is consciously thinking about any of this, he's good at delivering speeches.

It's a big part of why he won - not just the election but the primary as well.
  #91  
Old 03-06-2020, 03:21 PM
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Originally Posted by John Bredin View Post
Haven't people dug up multiple videos of Trump being interviewed twenty or more years ago where he's noticeably more coherent and articulate than he is now? Which is particularly telling when he's more coherent answering questions then (when you have to listen to someone else's question, process it, and formulate an answer) than in speeches and rallies now (when you get to control exactly what you say).

I think you'd have to be wearing a MAGA hat to think Trump hasn't declined significantly.
I'd stick with what I originally said
"Then, people will mainly interpret the relative mental acuity of Biden and Trump through the lens of their politics. Millions nationwide besides I assume a majority here would agree 'Trump has the most obvious decline'. Millions of others nationwide would not agree."
Which I think is demonstrated by the posts back and forth since saying 'oh no Trump hasn't declined more' v 'oh yes he has' rather than refuted by either side. It's mainly a matter of your politics which of those you believe.

The key in the election is people who don't have strong convictions, though as importantly people who'll almost 100% vote for Trump *if they show up* and those who will almost 100% vote for Biden *if they show up*. Which of those groups, not people typical of this forum or some right wing forum somewhere, are given pause about showing up by the apparent cognitive decline of Trump or Biden, I think that's really tricky for partisans to judge. It's the kind of thing where it's really hard to put your own biases aside.

Again though Trump will cruise through the campaign comfortable in the WH and riffing in front of big very friendly crowds (cruise to a loss quite possibly, but still I think he will cruise along fairly relaxed). Biden will have to slog it out more without any real base of people who like him all that much, as opposed to being determined to get rid of Trump. Higher stress environment for Biden I think day to day over a still long campaign. OTOH most of the media will tend to be somewhat more friendly to Biden than Trump once it's straight up one on one, will be reluctant to push a 'Biden's lost it' narrative at that stage unless it's really obvious. Though on the third hand in the media horse race coverage of the primaries up to now Biden cognitive decline yes/no has been a common topic whereas Trump cognitive decline is more of a left echo chamber topic.

Again though depends a lot which or either of them gives a lot of *new* reasons for voters to worry about this issue. I don't think they'll do it to each other though, I guess neither will come across much sharper than the other in head to head debate, again expect insofar as people who will already have decided who 'wiped up the floor' with whom before the debate starts.

Last edited by Corry El; 03-06-2020 at 03:26 PM.
  #92  
Old 03-06-2020, 04:17 PM
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Yes, actually. Nobody should post about it. It's idiotic to think anyone, let alone complete laymen, have any right to an opinion on this.
Sorry, but that doesn't even make sense. We're being asked to vote for a candidate in a spectacularly important election, perhaps the most important in some of our lives.

But we don't have a right to consider a candidate's fitness for the job?

Seriously, that's nonsense.


And, furthermore, I didn't "diagnose" Biden. I said that, based on my experience with men of his age with dementia, I see some similarities, and that concerns me.

Last edited by Saintly Loser; 03-06-2020 at 04:21 PM.
  #93  
Old 03-06-2020, 04:27 PM
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Originally Posted by UltraVires View Post
You are both talking about 20 years ago. Of course a 54 year old man will look more spry and articulate than a 74 year old man. That's not saying anything at all.
Not really, I know people in their 70s who are still sharp. With trump it's a huge difference.
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  #94  
Old 03-06-2020, 04:30 PM
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Yes, actually. Nobody should post about it. It's idiotic to think anyone, let alone complete laymen, have any right to an opinion on this.
Yeah let's all just pretend everything is fine.

After all trump bribed a doctor to say he was fine and would live to be 200, so let's all ignore these very serious issues that relate to our reputation and national security.
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  #95  
Old 03-06-2020, 05:09 PM
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Not really, I know people in their 70s who are still sharp. With trump it's a huge difference.
Plenty of people are mentally quite fit in their 70s, 80s, even 90s (although it's pretty rare at that point).

The legendary federal judge Jack Weinstein just retired, at 98. Nobody ever said he was showing signs of dementia.

Last edited by Saintly Loser; 03-06-2020 at 05:09 PM.
  #96  
Old 03-06-2020, 06:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Lamoral View Post
I agree with this. I find Trump to be a completely odious, loathsome individual, but I have to concede that he is good at talking. Most of the people who bash his inarticulate speaking style are missing the point. He IS inarticulate, but he has good verbal timing. Maybe he uses Teleprompters much of the time, but even when he doesn't, he has very good command of dynamics (i.e. varying his volume for maximum delivery and building up to crescendos), timing (when to allow pauses for his words to sink in), doing call-and-response things with the audience - whether or not he is consciously thinking about any of this, he's good at delivering speeches.

It's a big part of why he won - not just the election but the primary as well.
He acts like Mussolini, and it seems to be a self conscious choice. That's his virtue signalling and it works. His words actually don't even make sense. His dynamics and timing are from his pathological narcissism.
  #97  
Old 03-06-2020, 07:31 PM
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Not really, I know people in their 70s who are still sharp. With trump it's a huge difference.
Is this what you are talking about? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQUaQo2j42Y

In that video I see Donald Trump twenty years younger. If you played the audio from that, I would bet anything that nobody here could tell if it was Trump 2020 or Trump 1999. Same arrogance, same brashness, same deflection of questions, same everything.

Could you point out something to me that Trump exhibits in the video that he no longer does which would support your assertion that he is losing it?
  #98  
Old 03-06-2020, 10:54 PM
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Biden has always been a blowhard and a gaffe generator (Jon Stewart dubbed him "Gabby McGillicuddy"), and I think he's become only more so with passing years. Several times recently he's blanked on Obama's name during his town halls and Q&As, which is worrisome. That said, I'll vote for him in a heartbeat over Il Douche.
  #99  
Old 03-06-2020, 11:48 PM
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Isn't Biden too old to have early onset dementia?
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  #100  
Old 03-07-2020, 01:00 AM
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Minor mental flaws appear with age. My grandmother used to annoy us kids by mixing up our names, but I've started to do the same. Do I have dementia? I test myself at on-line math puzzles and still manage to get on the winner's board. And I hereby challenge any Doper to a Backgammon match!

As others say, Jill or Barack would probably have done an intervention if Joe were severely flawed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eenerms View Post
I think he would have won over a Trump 8 years ago.
Or even four years ago! Easily. It's quite sad; the 8-year Red/Blue cycle worked in the Reds favor in 2016 but Trump should have been very easy to defeat — and he would have gone down until Comey went berserk. Now the 8-year cycle works in Trump's favor. Biden-2020 is no Obama ... he's not even a Biden-2016.

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Originally Posted by enipla View Post
I'm not worried if Biden occasional loses track when having to speak, or flubs a line. Most people do.
...
Biden is a decent man. That's kinda important.
...
Trump is a criminal, treasonous, racist moron that only cares about himself. He can barely string two sentences together. That's kinda important too.
Again: Every informed person who doesn't hate America will vote for Biden over Trump. But that's not who will swing the election. Biden needs to appeal to the bigots of Flyover Land. I've got my fingers crossed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by UltraVires View Post
First, I think it we are simply looking at diminished mental faculties due to age, one would really have to be wearing a giant D partisan hat to think that Trump has declined more or even anywhere close to Biden. I'm not saying that Biden is ready for a nursing home, but there is some clear decline due to age that Trump frankly has not shown at all.
We'll need some cites for this. Start with the Trump speech in #45. Tell us what you think of it and/or point to speech by a younger Trump that was just as deranged.
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