Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 03-06-2020, 03:21 PM
psychonaut is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Europe
Posts: 6,407

Who would a lame-duck Trump appoint as VP?


We've already got a thread for discussing the potential VP picks of the 2020 presidential candidates, including Trump. (Among the running mates being discussed for Trump is Nikki Haley.)

This thread poses the same question, but for a different scenario. Assume that Trump is elected to a second term, and Pence (or whoever else he happened to have chosen as his running mate) is forced to leave the office of vice president some time into the term. This could be due to death, ill health, or resignation—for the purposes of this question it doesn't really matter. Who does Trump appoint to replace the outgoing VP? At this point, Trump will be a lame-duck president, so he no longer needs to select someone "electable". How would the removal of this restriction influence his choice?

Of course, his nominee would still need to be confirmed by Congress. Currently, the Senate has a Republican majority and the House has a Democratic majority, though I understand either of these could conceivably change for Trump's next term. Who would Trump pick if there is no change in control of the two bodies? Who would Trump pick if both bodies end up in Republican hands, granting him much more leeway (but maybe not carte blanche)? Would Trump attempt to engage in blatant cronyism or even nepotism, and to what extent would a Republican Congress indulge this?
  #2  
Old 03-06-2020, 03:44 PM
Hermitian's Avatar
Hermitian is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,830
Quote:
Originally Posted by psychonaut View Post
a lame-duck president
You keep using that word. I don't think it means what you think it means.
  #3  
Old 03-06-2020, 03:46 PM
Locrian is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Valley Village, CA
Posts: 4,670
Ivanka.
  #4  
Old 03-06-2020, 03:57 PM
Locrian is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Valley Village, CA
Posts: 4,670
(double post 504-Gateway)

Last edited by Locrian; 03-06-2020 at 03:58 PM.
  #5  
Old 03-06-2020, 04:12 PM
psychonaut is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Europe
Posts: 6,407
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hermitian View Post
You keep using that word. I don't think it means what you think it means.
Doesn't it? I checked Wikipedia just now and it says that, generally speaking, lame-duck status can be acquired by dint of "a term limit which prevents the official from running for that particular office again". If this isn't how the term is typically used in American politics, then please disregard my usage of it and mentally substitute whatever term you use for officials that are ineligible for re-election.

ETA: I see that in the "United States" section of the aforementioned Wikipedia article, in America the term is typically restricted to presidents serving between the November elections and the inauguration of their successor.

Last edited by psychonaut; 03-06-2020 at 04:15 PM.
  #6  
Old 03-06-2020, 04:24 PM
Elmer J. Fudd is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Posts: 1,686
Also note that presidential appointees only need to be approved by the Senate. The House has no say in the matter.
__________________
Elmer J. Fudd,
Millionaire.
I own a mansion and a yacht.
  #7  
Old 03-06-2020, 04:32 PM
Kent Clark's Avatar
Kent Clark is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Posts: 28,042
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elmer J. Fudd View Post
Also note that presidential appointees only need to be approved by the Senate. The House has no say in the matter.
The 25th Amendment specifically states that a Vice President must be confirmed by both houses of Congress.

I suspect Trump would decided to appoint an "interim Vice President" and never submit anyone for confirmation.
  #8  
Old 03-06-2020, 04:56 PM
Elmer J. Fudd is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Posts: 1,686
Also note that presidential appointees only need to be approved by the Senate. The House has no say in the matter.
__________________
Elmer J. Fudd,
Millionaire.
I own a mansion and a yacht.
  #9  
Old 03-06-2020, 05:37 PM
Steve MB is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Northern VA
Posts: 13,655
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elmer J. Fudd View Post
Also note that presidential appointees only need to be approved by the Senate. The House has no say in the matter.
Nope. See previous message.
__________________
The Internet: Nobody knows if you're a dog. Everybody knows if you're a jackass.
  #10  
Old 03-06-2020, 05:49 PM
Mangosteen is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Namche Bazaar
Posts: 2,781
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kent Clark View Post
The 25th Amendment specifically states that a Vice President must be confirmed by both houses of Congress.

I suspect Trump would decided to appoint an "interim Vice President" and never submit anyone for confirmation.
Seeing how the present House would never confirm anyone for VP that President Trump really wanted, an "interim VP" would all there would ever be until President Trump's second term was over. The question is if President Trump "left the scene" for whatever reason, would this "interim VP become President or would it go to the Speaker?
__________________
Its only funny until someone gets hurt, then its fuckin' hilarious!
  #11  
Old 03-06-2020, 06:04 PM
Fair Rarity's Avatar
Fair Rarity is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,313
Why would the House allow Trump to install a VP? Think about it: if there's no VP and something happened to Trump, we'd get President Nancy. And there'd be no one to break ties in the Senate. And there'd be no strong incumbent to run against in 2024. It'd be foolish to grant this boon to *this* administration. I know it'd violate norms and set a terrible precedent, but I don't know why only the GOP gets to play hardball.

But, as much as I admire how Pelosi has handled a lot of this mess, I do admit they'd cave without enormous concessions in some "we go high" bullshit. And Trump would pick someone who was most necessary at that moment in time and most disposable in the future.

I suspect Mitch would have a much, much stronger fight over VP than Nancy. He'd want a strong, competent VP to smooth legislation/executive stuff, have that tie breaker vote, have that 2024 candidate. And Trump wouldn't want competent because competent might mean he gets 25th when he next covfefes. Pence ain't a snitch: would a replacement be one?

Maybe Graham. He's enough of a suck up but not ambitious himself.
  #12  
Old 03-06-2020, 07:28 PM
tim-n-va is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 2,312
Lame duck means someone completing their term after a successor has been elected. Some people have been using it to mean anyone who is serving their last term - if that is by term limits or by announcing they will not seek re-election.

That latter, incorrect usage could be the source of confusion.
  #13  
Old 03-06-2020, 07:43 PM
Kent Clark's Avatar
Kent Clark is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Posts: 28,042
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mangosteen View Post
The question is if President Trump "left the scene" for whatever reason, would this "interim VP become President or would it go to the Speaker?
Trump can call anyone he wants an "interim VP" but the Constitution and the Presidential Succession Act are about as clear as legal talk can be about who's in line.
  #14  
Old 03-06-2020, 08:22 PM
RioRico is offline
Suspended
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: beyond cell service
Posts: 3,193
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kent Clark View Post
Trump can call anyone he wants an "interim VP" but the Constitution and the Presidential Succession Act are about as clear as legal talk can be about who's in line.
So the orange terror names Ivanka as interim veep and House Dems angrily sue to block the appointment. Suit goes to SCOTUS. They'll consider the case in a year or five. Right.
  #15  
Old 03-06-2020, 08:57 PM
BobLibDem is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Home 07 NCAA HockeyChamps
Posts: 22,360
I'd say anyone who cannot face the voters again is a lame duck. So I would call any second term president a lame duck throughout that term.

There is no such thing as an interim vice president. If the vice president dies or resigns, the president can nominate someone who would take office after each house of Congress votes to approve. Until and unless that approval happens, there is no vice president.
  #16  
Old 03-06-2020, 10:05 PM
UltraVires is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Bridgeport, WV, US
Posts: 17,451
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobLibDem View Post
There is no such thing as an interim vice president. If the vice president dies or resigns, the president can nominate someone who would take office after each house of Congress votes to approve. Until and unless that approval happens, there is no vice president.
I agree.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 25th Amendment, Section 2
Whenever there is a vacancy in the office of the Vice President, the President shall nominate a Vice President who shall take office upon confirmation by a majority vote of both Houses of Congress.
Emphasis added. The plain text makes it clear that a new VP does not take office until he or she is confirmed, and any "interim VP" would not be part of the line of succession.
  #17  
Old 03-07-2020, 12:03 AM
Little Nemo is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Western New York
Posts: 86,365
Quote:
Originally Posted by UltraVires View Post
Emphasis added. The plain text makes it clear that a new VP does not take office until he or she is confirmed, and any "interim VP" would not be part of the line of succession.
Going beyond that, an interim Vice President would not have any of the other powers of the office, such as casting a tie-breaking vote in the Senate or protecting the space-time continuum.
  #18  
Old 03-07-2020, 12:22 AM
Kolak of Twilo's Avatar
Kolak of Twilo is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Edgewater/Chicago
Posts: 4,089
Quote:
Originally Posted by RioRico View Post
So the orange terror names Ivanka as interim veep and House Dems angrily sue to block the appointment. Suit goes to SCOTUS. They'll consider the case in a year or five. Right.
There is no such thing as an "interim veep".

There is nothing in the Constitution to support the idea of an "interim veep".

Anyone DJT appointed to that role would have no power or authority at all.

As much as SCOTUS may be viewed to be politicized there is nothing to indicate they would go so far off the reservation as to support such a cockamamie idea.

The Constitution is clear on the process. There is no way to bypass the House in this process. It would go nowhere and Pelosi would be second in line for the remainder of DJT's term, unless the D's lost the House in the 2022 midterms.
  #19  
Old 03-07-2020, 12:43 AM
psychonaut is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Europe
Posts: 6,407
Quote:
Originally Posted by Locrian View Post
Ivanka.
Would Congress go along with this, even if both houses were controlled by the Republicans?
  #20  
Old 03-07-2020, 07:52 PM
RioRico is offline
Suspended
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: beyond cell service
Posts: 3,193
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kolak of Twilo View Post
There is no such thing as an "interim veep".

There is nothing in the Constitution to support the idea of an "interim veep".

Anyone DJT appointed to that role would have no power or authority at all.
Are those points supposed to discourage a "can-do" executive? If you can do what you want with no possibility of being bothered for a couple years, why fret? POTUS names interim veep who presides over Senate. Dem senators walk out in protest... and are grabbed by The Golden One's gestapo as damn disloyal subversives. Disloyalty will not be tolerated. Power? Authority? Mao was right. "Political power flows from the barrel of a gun." Who controls federal authority and power now? Who enforces judicial decisions?
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:52 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

Send questions for Cecil Adams to: cecil@straightdope.com

Send comments about this website to: webmaster@straightdope.com

Terms of Use / Privacy Policy

Advertise on the Straight Dope!
(Your direct line to thousands of the smartest, hippest people on the planet, plus a few total dipsticks.)

Copyright © 2019 STM Reader, LLC.

 
Copyright © 2017