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  #51  
Old 07-17-2018, 03:11 AM
Thing Fish Thing Fish is offline
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Originally Posted by UltraVires View Post
I have read several news accounts (and they can be found everywhere) but my understanding of the use of the racial slur was as follows:

The CEO was in a meeting addressing the heat that Papa Johns had been taking for speaking out in favor of NFL players standing for the national anthem and not remaining in the locker room or taking a knee. Some had said that stance was racist against blacks. In the meeting he denied that he was racist and was apparently exasperated by the criticism and said something to the effect that "Colonel Sanders called black people niggers and he didn't get in trouble for it."

Afterwards, because he used "the n word" he was pressured to resign.

Is my understanding accurate? If so, then WTF? Isn't it plain that he wasn't using the word, that he was simply describing another person's use of the word?

If this new standard applies, should I be barred from being a CEO, a civic officer or otherwise because of my use of the word above?
So, circling back to the beginning...this meeting was called to discuss the CEO's choice to publicly associate his company with one side of a polarizing, racially charged controversy which had nothing at all to do with said company. I suppose it's possible he might have saved his job had he chosen his words better, but to say that his use of that word was the reason he was pressured to resign seems to miss the point in a really big way.
  #52  
Old 07-17-2018, 03:50 AM
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It seems as though this John fella was looking for the "academic use" exception where he could toss the word out not as his own word but to demonstrate someone else's use of it. But for some reason he felt comfortable doing this in front of the senior executives of his company and they did not agree that an academic use exception applied here.

Barack Obama had an academic use exception when discussing race issues in America in a televised interview. People were a little shocked to hear the POTUS dropping that word but if you listen to what he was saying in context it is obvious that he is referring to the history of the word (where it was used commonly and openly in the past but not so much nowadays) rather than referring to any specific group of people. It should also be noted that Barack Obama is black, which gives him built-in n-word privileges.

TV personality Bill Maher said the word in reference to himself and got a passive academic use exception by virtue of the news cycle changing fast enough that the outrage fell by the wayside. It should be noted that he hasn't done it since.

I remember hearing a radio show on satellite radio based somewhere out of the south. It was a hip hop show hosted by two black men. They used the n-word like candy, sprinkling every sentence with multiple uses, applying the label to any person, thing or concept that they were talking about. And they would take calls from the public and the public would talk like they did. But you could tell from the voices that it was white men calling in and that they were getting subtle joy out of being able to say that word on the radio to two black men who couldn't beat them up for saying it.

I'm also reminded of Chris Rock's hilarious bit "(N-words) versus Black People" in which he lays out very clearly that your average black person is hard-working, dedicated and just trying to make ends meet. He contrasts this with certain individuals who lie, cheat and steal while celebrating what terrible individuals they are. Chris Rock has felt the need to retire this bit because of too many white people throwing the n-word in his face because they think they will get an academic use exception when talking to him about it.

In general though, the academic use exception applies in supremely narrow circumstances. Anyone who wishes to use that word is free to do so so but is not guaranteed to be free from consequence for doing so. Use at your own risk.
  #53  
Old 07-17-2018, 05:21 AM
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Why are you annoyed that I said yo' momma is stupid?
Someone else called her fat and ugly and got away with it.

...is not a good line to take.

Either Papa is oblivious enough to not know there are certain words that should avoid as much as possible leaving your mouth -- even quoting others -- in which case he was a ticking timebomb for the corporation.

Or he's just racist. I mean, "Other people would call you guys X" is a trick racists / sexists etc often use to insult somebody or a group while being able to claim that they did not.

Last edited by Mijin; 07-17-2018 at 05:23 AM.
  #54  
Old 07-17-2018, 08:42 AM
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Then, thank you for your un-cited anecdote.
But also
Quote:
I think it's likely (based on no proof) that this was just the straw that broke the camel's back.
Emphasis added in both cases.

Your standards of evidence seem rather flexible.

Regards,
Shodan
  #55  
Old 07-17-2018, 09:27 AM
Damuri Ajashi Damuri Ajashi is offline
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Ah, I see. Your interpretation of his comments are:

CEO: Damn, I do hate black people but they can't call me out on it because I haven't exactly said that. Hell, Colonel Sanders came right out and said it, and he didn't get in trouble, so why should I get in trouble for hating blacks secretly while he did it openly!

Whereas my interpretation is:

CEO: These accusations of racism are absurd. I have no issue with black people at all. But even if I did, why are people picking through my brain or my words? Even if they did find something racist, which they won't, Colonel Sanders was openly racist and didn't get in trouble. My conduct is orders of magnitude less than his and I should not be subject to such an inquisition.

Is that fair? I think we could all agree that if he said exactly "the n word" instead of using the word, he would have kept his job. So is it merely the use of the word that is now bad regardless of intent? Should I resign my civic posts because of the OP?
It would be silly to fire someone for saying nigger in a non-perjorative manner with nothing more. But when someone like Papa John consistently displays such racist behavior and sentiment and then seems comfortable saying nigger in public, you just can't keep that guy around. I think a lot of people reasonably believe that he is in fact racist, you may not but a lot of other people do
  #56  
Old 07-17-2018, 09:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Shodan View Post
But also Emphasis added in both cases.

Your standards of evidence seem rather flexible.
Unless, of course, the first example was used as an actual argument and the second was a heavily-caveated guess, in which case the comparison doesn't work.
  #57  
Old 07-17-2018, 09:37 AM
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I'm not sure if it is actually true that Colonel Sanders ever said that, but even if so, he has been dead for decades. Progress has been made in the interim.
The Washington Post published a letter from Sanders' great-granddaughter, who knew him into her 20s, and she claims he would never have used that word.
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  #58  
Old 07-17-2018, 10:39 AM
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The beauty of the free market is a company can hire and fire people based on what they say and the rest of us can buy or not their products. Yay, free markets!
  #59  
Old 07-17-2018, 10:43 AM
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I must take UltraVires' side here. Using a derogatory term to derogate and quoting a derogatory term in a discussion about derogation are not the same thing. That liberal Dopers can't grasp this makes me glad I've changed my political alignment from 'Centrist leaning toward Democratic Party' to 'Centrist leaning toward sanity.'

Bob Dylan once had a hit song opposing racism with the stanza
Quote:
And to the black folks he was just a crazy nigger
No one doubted that he pulled the trigger
And though they could not produce the gun
The DA said he was the one who did the deed
And the all-white jury agreed.
Are radio stations no longer allowed to play this song on the airwaves?
  #60  
Old 07-17-2018, 10:52 AM
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I must take UltraVires' side here. Using a derogatory term to derogate and quoting a derogatory term in a discussion about derogation are not the same thing.
Nobody here is saying they are.
  #61  
Old 07-17-2018, 10:53 AM
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As far as I'm concerned, the only proper place for that word is on a Scrabble board if those happen to be the tiles that you have in your rack. But that's just me. And you'd better be able to get at least a double word score for it.
  #62  
Old 07-17-2018, 11:01 AM
Thing Fish Thing Fish is offline
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I must take UltraVires' side here. Using a derogatory term to derogate and quoting a derogatory term in a discussion about derogation are not the same thing. That liberal Dopers can't grasp this makes me glad I've changed my political alignment from 'Centrist leaning toward Democratic Party' to 'Centrist leaning toward sanity.'

Bob Dylan once had a hit song opposing racism with the stanza

Are radio stations no longer allowed to play this song on the airwaves?
I don't think anybody here has argued that direct use of the word and quoting someone else's use of it are the same thing.

Yes, if you look at it in isolation and ignore all context, it seems like a foolish overreaction to fire someone for this, just as it would be a foolish overreaction to label Bob Dylan a racist based on the song you quote. So most of us are assuming that there has to be more to it, that this was just the final example of a troubling pattern of behavior. Remember, the meeting was called specifically to address concerns about the CEO's habit of putting his foot in his mouth around racial issues.

Absent other context, if someone had lost their job as, say, Chayrpyrsyn of the Evergreen State College chapter of Vegans Against Patriarchy, under similar circumstances, I would feel the likeliest explanation was knee-jerk SJW political correctness run amok. Given that wacky teenage SJWs tend not to sit on the boards of major corporations, it seems a much less likely explanation for this firing.

Last edited by Thing Fish; 07-17-2018 at 11:03 AM.
  #63  
Old 07-17-2018, 11:04 AM
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He made up quote using "nigger", then attributed it to someone who there's no evidence actually said it, and multiple sources say he was quite progressive for a white business owner in the south during the segregation era and actively avoided using any kind of slur for black people. If he was actually quoting someone then quoting their exact words is fine (like I did) but he's not actually quoting someone, he's obviously just using that as an excuse to throw the word into conversation, and paradoxically attempting to justify his own racism by using a word that anyone sensible knows he shouldn't use in the first place. While the OP here tries to minimize it, the fact that he's dropping an n-bomb when trying to convince people that he's racially sensitive is extremely telling.

I also find it bizarre how on one hand conservatives are big fans of at-will employment and fight bitterly against any kind of employee protection on one hand, but when someone gets fired for making really dumb racist comments claim it's somehow a big problem. If you get caught with a rainbow flag it's fine to fire you no questions asked, but if you're the public face of a company and sling around slurs in a conversation about managing the company's image then clearly people are just sensitive snowflakes overreacting.
  #64  
Old 07-17-2018, 11:06 AM
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He made up quote using "nigger", then attributed it to someone who there's no evidence actually said it, and multiple sources say he was quite progressive for a white business owner in the south during the segregation era and actively avoided using any kind of slur for black people. If he was actually quoting someone then quoting their exact words is fine (like I did) but he's not actually quoting someone, he's obviously just using that as an excuse to throw the word into conversation, and paradoxically attempting to justify his own racism by using a word that anyone sensible knows he shouldn't use in the first place. While the OP here tries to minimize it, the fact that he's dropping an n-bomb when trying to convince people that he's racially sensitive is extremely telling.

I also find it bizarre how on one hand conservatives are big fans of at-will employment and fight bitterly against any kind of employee protection on one hand, but when someone gets fired for making really dumb racist comments claim it's somehow a big problem. If you get caught with a rainbow flag it's fine to fire you no questions asked, but if you're the public face of a company and sling around slurs in a conversation about managing the company's image then clearly people are just sensitive snowflakes overreacting.
Also, this.
  #65  
Old 07-17-2018, 11:08 AM
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Nobody here is saying they are.
And remember - only strawmen can refer to each other as "scarecrows". That's their word.

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As far as I'm concerned, the only proper place for that word is on a Scrabble board if those happen to be the tiles that you have in your rack. But that's just me. And you'd better be able to get at least a double word score for it.
And you better have considered spelling "ginger" instead.
  #66  
Old 07-17-2018, 11:24 AM
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But also Emphasis added in both cases.

Your standards of evidence seem rather flexible.

Regards,
Shodan
WTF, Shodan? As far as I knew at the time, BeenJammin' had just made up that story. He/She didn't link to any article or cite, and he/she was using it as a counter-argument about how people are too race-sensitive. I was making an educated guess based on my own experience working for large corporations. Can you really not tell the difference? What was I supposed to cite for my guess? I wasn't even making an argument -- I was saying that this may be what happened.

Later, BeenJammin' linked to the story, which was what I was asking for. I still don't think it's on point, since his story is really nutpicking some over-sensitive people and the subsequent misunderstandings, which is fairly irrelevant to this discussion of a chairman so tone-deaf that he couldn't avoid using a controversial term in a meeting about his tone-deaf controversies.
  #67  
Old 07-17-2018, 11:47 AM
ElvisL1ves ElvisL1ves is offline
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Just to be clear, Schnatter was forced out because the company was going to experience serious sales drops if he weren't, not because of anything he said or stood for. The deplorables haven't completed their conquest yet.
  #68  
Old 07-17-2018, 11:57 AM
Thing Fish Thing Fish is offline
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As far as I'm concerned, the only proper place for that word is on a Scrabble board if those happen to be the tiles that you have in your rack. But that's just me. And you'd better be able to get at least a double word score for it.
Not recognized by the Official Scrabble Players Dictionary, which omits words "likely to offend players of the game". This dictionary is "endorsed for recreational and school use" by the National Scrabble Association. The list of words permitted to serious tournament players is only available to dues-paying members, though, so I don't know how offensive they're allowed to be.

I personally would never use the word in Scrabble. Maybe I'll start a Game Room thread about this tricky ethical topic rather than hijack this one.
  #69  
Old 07-17-2018, 12:48 PM
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You can spell "ginger" with the same letters. No excuse.
  #70  
Old 07-17-2018, 01:17 PM
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Just to be clear, Schnatter was forced out because the company was going to experience serious sales drops if he weren't, not because of anything he said or stood for. The deplorables haven't completed their conquest yet.
Exactly. Business is business, and anything that negatively impinges on the revenue/profit numbers will be quickly quashed regardless of any existential value judgments for or against it.
  #71  
Old 07-17-2018, 09:55 PM
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Yes, if you look at it in isolation and ignore all context, it seems like a foolish overreaction to fire someone for this, just as it would be a foolish overreaction to label Bob Dylan a racist based on the song you quote. So most of us are assuming that there has to be more to it, that this was just the final example of a troubling pattern of behavior. Remember, the meeting was called specifically to address concerns about the CEO's habit of putting his foot in his mouth around racial issues.
To expand on what I said earlier, I think it's pretty obvious from the incident that he tosses around the word when he can get away with it and resents having to avoid it around witnesses. The quote has an air of resentment that he can't use the word, and envy of Colonel Sanders for being able to get away with using it all the time. It's just not the kind of thing that a non-racist being harassed over some minor thing picks to complain about, ESPECIALLY since Colonel Sanders is not actually known for being an overt racist/ He's not even referencing an actual thing, he's invented an aspirational fantasy of a CEO able to fling n-bombs casually, then used it to complain that he's under too much scrutiny.
  #72  
Old 07-18-2018, 12:11 AM
DavidwithanR DavidwithanR is offline
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It would be silly to fire someone for saying nigger in a non-perjorative manner with nothing more.
That's just the thing - there IS no non-pejorative meaning attached to this particular word.
  #73  
Old 07-18-2018, 02:07 AM
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If we are allowing hypotheticals like, "What if he had said 'n-word' instead", we can introduce hypotheticals like, what if he dimmed the lights, winked at the video conference camera and started singing
Quote:
Somewhere over the rainbow, way up high, There's a land that I heard of once in a lullaby.
Somewhere over the rainbow, skies are blueand the dreams that you dare to dream really do come true.
Someday I'll wish upon a starand wake up where the clouds are far behind me.
Where troubles melt like lemon drops
Away above the chimney tops, that's where you'll find me.
Somewhere over the rainbow, bluebirds fly, Birds fly over the rainbow, why then, oh why can't I?
If happy little bluebirds fly beyond the rainbow, Why oh why can't I?
only the last line was, "Why can't I refer to black people as niggers like the imaginary Col. Sanders that only exists in my demented imagination?" Would he have been fired for that!?
  #74  
Old 07-18-2018, 08:22 AM
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That's just the thing - there IS no non-pejorative meaning attached to this particular word.
Well, that's not really true, unless you're separating the -er version from the -a version. That word is often used within the African American community as a term of friendship. Look up the lyrics for Lean Back from the Terror Squad, for example.

Just to be absolutely clear, I'm not defending John S. I just disagree that there is no non-pejorative meaning to that word.
  #75  
Old 07-18-2018, 08:28 AM
DavidwithanR DavidwithanR is offline
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Well, that's not really true, unless you're separating the -er version from the -a version. That word is often used within the African American community as a term of friendship. Look up the lyrics for Lean Back from the Terror Squad, for example.

Just to be absolutely clear, I'm not defending John S. I just disagree that there is no non-pejorative meaning to that word.
In the case where the person speaking is a white businessman, your point is true but irrelevant. There is no non-pejorative meaning available for John Schnatter to use.
  #76  
Old 07-18-2018, 08:33 AM
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In the case where the person speaking is a white businessman, your point is true but irrelevant. There is no non-pejorative meaning available for John Schnatter to use.
Agreed on that point. I think the use/mention distinction is a real one, but as pointed out above, some people "mention" because they really want to "use", and that seems to be what JS was up to.
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Old 07-18-2018, 08:57 AM
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Agreed on that point. I think the use/mention distinction is a real one, but as pointed out above, some people "mention" because they really want to "use", and that seems to be what JS was up to.
I think the "I was merely mentioning it" defence is probably legitimate about one time in a thousand.
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Old 07-18-2018, 09:04 AM
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Isn't it plain that he wasn't using the word, that he was simply describing another person's use of the word?
It's plain that he was pissing and moaning about the fact that he can't use the word every day and twice on Sunday like they could back in the Good Old Days[tm] when Those People[tm] Knew Their Place[tm].
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  #79  
Old 07-18-2018, 05:12 PM
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... Are we in a modern age of infantile discussion where certain words are simply banned?
You can call it infantile, but this incident and the recent one at Netflix are proof that yes, certain words just plain unspeakable these days. I daresay as recent as 5 years ago I'm not sure those men would have been fired for what they said. I'm not about to debate whether that's right or wrong, just pointing out that social norms have drifted this way. And given these incidents, if you're a white person, you're an idiot if you think you can get away with using the word even if you're not using it derogatively.
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Old 07-18-2018, 05:50 PM
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There are words that are certainly banned in a professional setting like a conference call with your colleagues.
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Old 07-18-2018, 08:38 PM
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There are words that are certainly banned in a professional setting like a conference call with your colleagues.
I think if someone uses such words privately - outside of a business setting, that is - then maybe it's bad but that's life. But once you're in a business setting, whether that's a boardroom or a conference call or an individual call or advertising, it's unacceptable. Literally, not able to be accepted. Not even if everyone around the table is old and white. And not if everyone is young and black either.


It's because of the harmful intent. I am fine with a board meeting in which some absent person is called a stupid fucker - it's calling him "generic bad word"; maybe he IS a stupid fucker. But this is different.

Last edited by DavidwithanR; 07-18-2018 at 08:43 PM.
  #82  
Old 07-18-2018, 10:08 PM
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You can spell "ginger" with the same letters. No excuse.
Remember, only a ginger can call another ginger "ginger".
  #83  
Old 07-19-2018, 01:54 AM
DavidwithanR DavidwithanR is offline
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Connotations.

This word, which once may have had a neutral meaning, no longer even includes a neutral meaning. The word is now nothing but a self-contained threat. That's why you can't use it. (Yes, I know about the special case involving black men taking the word for themselves. That's not relevant here.)
  #84  
Old 07-19-2018, 02:13 AM
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I don't think anybody here has argued that direct use of the word and quoting someone else's use of it are the same thing.

Yes, if you look at it in isolation and ignore all context, it seems like a foolish overreaction to fire someone for this, just as it would be a foolish overreaction to label Bob Dylan a racist based on the song you quote. So most of us are assuming that there has to be more to it, that this was just the final example of a troubling pattern of behavior. Remember, the meeting was called specifically to address concerns about the CEO's habit of putting his foot in his mouth around racial issues.
OK. But why did the prominent feature of the news story emphasize the non-derogatory use of the N-word? Recall that the exact thing happened in another recent firing that was top of the news. Either the reporters are stupid or they think we are.

I hope someone will do an experiment for me. (It's a long-distance call for me to any American radio station.) Call up an AM or FM radio station which takes requests and ask for 'Hurricane.' Remind them that it uses the N-word and ask if that's OK. Will they play the song?
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Old 07-19-2018, 05:13 AM
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OK. But why did the prominent feature of the news story emphasize the non-derogatory use of the N-word?
Because the prominent feature of the news story was wrong. There IS no non-derogatory use of the word. There may have been one once, but it's gone.
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Old 07-19-2018, 05:37 AM
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OK. But why did the prominent feature of the news story emphasize the non-derogatory use of the N-word? Recall that the exact thing happened in another recent firing that was top of the news. Either the reporters are stupid or they think we are.

I hope someone will do an experiment for me. (It's a long-distance call for me to any American radio station.) Call up an AM or FM radio station which takes requests and ask for 'Hurricane.' Remind them that it uses the N-word and ask if that's OK. Will they play the song?
I don't think it was non derogatory. It was making up a fictional usage by another in an effort to excuse his own behavior. I think that still counts as derogatory, even if it's different than just calling a guy on the street that slur.
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Old 07-19-2018, 05:48 AM
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Because the prominent feature of the news story was wrong. There IS no non-derogatory use of the word. There may have been one once, but it's gone.
This claim seems to be controversial even among the liberals here.

Will you perform the experiment for me? See if a radio station will play "Hurricane"? Make sure they know it contains the N-word.
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Old 07-19-2018, 07:32 AM
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Originally Posted by iiandyiiii View Post
I don't think it was non derogatory. It was making up a fictional usage by another in an effort to excuse his own behavior. I think that still counts as derogatory, even if it's different than just calling a guy on the street that slur.
I wonder if the CEO had made up a quote by Colonel Sanders that Jesus was a cunt, if his defenders here would still be defending him. Conservatives seem really eager to find loopholes where they can still use the N word.
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Old 07-19-2018, 09:41 AM
ElvisL1ves ElvisL1ves is offline
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Stories coming out now that the company was/is in talks to be acquired by Wendy's. The board (boards?) may have seen this incident as a convenient way to get Schnatter out of the way, not that they wouldn't have anyway.

Look for the name change and the disappearance of his slappable face from the logo, next.
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Old 07-19-2018, 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted by septimus View Post
This claim seems to be controversial even among the liberals here.

Will you perform the experiment for me? See if a radio station will play "Hurricane"? Make sure they know it contains the N-word.
How long have you been out of the country? Racial issues aside, radio stations that take requests and/or play eight-minute deep cuts from 40 year old albums aren't really a thing in the US these days.

BTW, that is such an awesome song!
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Old 07-19-2018, 05:06 PM
Capn Carl Capn Carl is offline
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Originally Posted by septimus View Post
This claim seems to be controversial even among the liberals here.

Will you perform the experiment for me? See if a radio station will play "Hurricane"? Make sure they know it contains the N-word.
Why cant you make the call?
And whats your point?
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Old 07-20-2018, 12:13 AM
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Bonus points if you can get Don Imus to play it.
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Old 07-20-2018, 03:14 AM
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Why cant you make the call?
And whats your point?
I don't live in the United States and haven't for some time.

I don't have a "point."(*) What I have is genuine curiosity about the extent to which the N-word is frowned upon. Would "Hurricane" draw objections or not? It seems like a simple question to me.

I vaguely recall, decades ago, that some American school or library banned or censored the novel Huckleberry Finn because of its use of the N-word.

* I do have a pet peeve however. I often ask questions, not because I'm JAQing off but because I wonder what the answers are. Yet some people jump to a conclusion, and assume that just to ask the question implies a judgement. I'm sure some of you have mentally branded me a racist because I seem to defend non-derogatory use of the N-word.

I'd never heard of Papa John and haven't wasted a Google click to learn about him. It sounds like he was a racist, so ... Good Riddance! It does seem odd, however, that the evidence offered up to outrage us is his ostensibly non-derogatory use of the N-word.
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Old 07-20-2018, 10:02 AM
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I think your question is sort of self-defeating. Call up a station and request Hurricane, that is one thing. Call them and make a point that the n-word is in there and it is a different thing. Good luck with that. (60s icons could do it, it was a live issue then)

This word represents the worst of America and pretty much never makes anyone happy, except maybe the worst kind of social trolls. I was dating a girl from Germany years back- she dropped an n-bomb at the museum and that was it. Didn't matter that she did not seem to know better or wasn't using it to insult anyone, I simply could not be near it. Next girl!

Are you not just a white supremacist but want to put minorities in chains? Do you think non whites are not human but just animals? Throw the n-word around.

Papa John's is scouring the face of its founder off of its logos, signs, pizza boxes, etc. Kind of the pizza version of scrubbing the names of villains off of the obelisks and monuments in Egypt so that they would be forgotten forever. You don't get treated like that say, promoting lower taxes, or even promoting war with Iran. Non-asshole Americans don't accept it, except out of rappers or black people who probably have been touched by the lingering effects of segregation. People who, maybe not in the current generation, were Fucked by this kind of treatment.

If I get Alzeimer's and start tossing that word around, please euthanize me; I'm done.
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  #95  
Old 07-20-2018, 10:06 AM
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Originally Posted by septimus View Post
I'm sure some of you have mentally branded me a racist because I seem to defend non-derogatory use of the N-word.
It's not defending people quoting use of the word or people discussing works like Huckleberry Finn that's a problem, it's the fact that you're attempting to defend an obvious racist whining about not being able to drop n-bombs at work by completely ignoring the context of his remarks. If you don't want people to mentally brand you a racist, don't pretend like there's nothing wrong with a guy who wants to call black people 'niggers' so badly that on a conference call about improving the company's image on racial matters he invents a story about Colonel Sanders flinging the word around and wistfully laments that he can't do it himself in these days. The fact that you're completely ignoring the context of the comment to say 'but he was clearly quoting someone' doesn't speak well for you.

Last edited by Pantastic; 07-20-2018 at 10:07 AM.
  #96  
Old 07-20-2018, 10:40 AM
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https://www.eater.com/2018/7/19/1759...nt-allegations

Apparently there's a history of sexual assault allegations against Papa John. He may have been about to be booted anyway, with this as a convenient trigger.
  #97  
Old 07-20-2018, 10:50 AM
Really Not All That Bright Really Not All That Bright is offline
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CEO John decides to have a meeting with the rest of the executives about the company's policy on workplace harassment and gender relations. During the meeting, someone mentions that company policy prohibits the use of sexual, ethnic or other slurs in the workplace. John pipes up, "Yeah! Steve, you shouldn't call Sally a cunt." Steve has never actually called Sally a cunt.

The CEO's use of the term cunt was merely a quotation (albeit a hypothetical one). What's wrong with that? It's pretty obvious that there's something wrong with it. It's gratuitous and adds nothing to the discussion. It's especially stupid given that it was said in a meeting about workplace behavior standards. That's basically what happened here.

Schnatter had previously stepped down as CEO for saying boneheaded things about football, and PJ's stock prices have been tumbling for years, so it's not like he was fired just because of this. I met him years ago, when I was a driver for the company's flagship store (and sales and profits were near a peak). Nice guy, but he was obviously socially clueless even to a college kid - he made mildly disparaging remarks about Hispanics in front of two Hispanic employees.

Last edited by Really Not All That Bright; 07-20-2018 at 10:52 AM.
  #98  
Old 07-20-2018, 05:49 PM
Capn Carl Capn Carl is offline
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To me, and to several other posters on this thread, it’s obvious that Papa John lost both his jobs for multiple reasons, and just one of those reasons was his use of the n-word. Then, there’s a few posters here that can only see that one reason. I don’t get it.
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Old 07-20-2018, 08:12 PM
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I will revise my earlier Scrabble comment to allow for the possibility of getting a double or triple letter score. Had not considered "ginger". As an aside, we used to play back when I was in college with a 20 "dirty word bonus", but that didn't include racial/ethnic/religious slurs.
  #100  
Old 07-26-2018, 04:40 PM
Saint Cad Saint Cad is offline
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Originally Posted by E-DUB View Post
As far as I'm concerned, the only proper place for that word is on a Scrabble board if those happen to be the tiles that you have in your rack. But that's just me. And you'd better be able to get at least a double word score for it.
All the same, I'd use those letter to make "ginger"
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