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  #51  
Old 06-07-2019, 06:01 PM
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Is that the same as excommunication? Because I might be told not to prevent myself for Communion if I was in a state of mortal sin, but that's not the same as excommunication.
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Old 06-07-2019, 06:07 PM
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I thought it was but I'm no expert.

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  #53  
Old 06-08-2019, 12:38 PM
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Is that the same as excommunication? Because I might be told not to prevent myself for Communion if I was in a state of mortal sin, but that's not the same as excommunication.
I presume that you meant to use "present" there, but let's let that slide. It's my understanding that the medicinal penalty of excommunication is nothing more nor less than the act of barring its subject from receiving the sacrament of the Eucharist; it strikes me that whether it is done by ordering the subject to not present themselves, or by ordering ministers of the Eucharist to turn the subject away amounts to a distinction without a difference* (that said, I've yet to meet a Roman Catholic voter who has announced that they would refuse a candidate their vote solely on account of the candidate being ineligible to receive the sacrament).

What's your understanding of the meaning of the term?



*If Bricker were still around, he could probably explain the difference within the distinction (if any). I realize that I don't speak for everyone, but I miss him.
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Old 06-08-2019, 01:03 PM
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I presume that you meant to use "present" there, but let's let that slide. It's my understanding that the medicinal penalty of excommunication is nothing more nor less than the act of barring its subject from receiving the sacrament of the Eucharist; it strikes me that whether it is done by ordering the subject to not present themselves, or by ordering ministers of the Eucharist to turn the subject away amounts to a distinction without a difference* (that said, I've yet to meet a Roman Catholic voter who has announced that they would refuse a candidate their vote solely on account of the candidate being ineligible to receive the sacrament).
It may be a distinction without a difference. Really. Or it may not. I don't know.

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What's your understanding of the meaning of the term?
"Excommunication" is a formal process, and the excommunicated person is excluded from all the sacraments. There is a process to lift the excommunication. You're right to say that it's medicinal, and not necessarily permanent.

A person in a state of mortal sin may not receive Communion, but may go to confession, confess his or her sins, receive absolution, and then receive the Eucharist. If I have committed a mortal sin, I may not receive Communion until I have dealt with that, but I am not excommunicated.

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*If Bricker were still around, he could probably explain the difference within the distinction (if any). I realize that I don't speak for everyone, but I miss him.
Or Tomndeb, our preeminent expert on all things Catholic. Which I am not (either preeminent or expert).

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  #55  
Old 06-14-2019, 03:58 PM
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A twofer: bad cop and bad religious leader! After a career upholding the law and protecting us, one Grayson Fritts became a pastor. This weekend he called LGBTQ people animals and called for their execution.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...=.58190c34961e
  #56  
Old 01-17-2020, 10:26 PM
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this one is delightful

Though not exactly a religious leader, per se, Whitfield Academy in Kentucky happened upon a picture on FB of or birthday party for one of its students (on her mother's account), which led the Baptist-affiliated school to expel the student for violating their moral code.

What ever did the student do?

She wore a white sweatshirt that had some rainbow striping on it while sitting, smiling, in front of her rainbow-frosted birthday cake. (Curiously, I seem to remember a day when the rainbow was a religiousy symbol – perhaps that is something that angers the faithful, that their symbol of mass murder has been so fiendishly stolen.)

Granted, the faculty is squicked by this teenager who, to them, seems inadequately feminine, but hey, they have some pretty high standards they have to uphold, lest that god person find itself in a particularly smitey mood.

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  #57  
Old 01-18-2020, 12:56 AM
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Thanks for bumping this. I forgot about it. There are lots of Religious Fuckheads to catch up on.

This is not in any way meant to excuse the Religious Fuckheads or blame the family, but I'm kinda curious why they were in that school to begin with. They seem like not-awful people, and the Baptists are among the most awful of Christian denominations. I wonder if the family considers themselves Baptist, or if there were just few other educational options in the area.
  #58  
Old 01-18-2020, 01:41 AM
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… the Baptists are among the most awful of Christian denominations. …
Be careful, though. I was raised in a Baptist environment, and they were decent people. However, that was long, long ago, in a place where religion was not so much the forefront of the local culture. We went to a tiny church, barely bigger than a four bedroom house, that sat in the looming shadow of the massive synagogue across the parking lot.

You see, we were American Baptists, which are the cult sect that is more mildly tempered. At least, back then it was (and my dad was a decent, live-and-let-live guy to his dying day a decade ago). The Southern Baptists are the fuckwipes who try to sow misery and bullshit across the land, the assholes that Uncle Ronny hitched his wagon to, starting us on a downward slide toward theocracy.

And even then, probably a goodly fraction of Southern Baptists are actually tolerable people. Keep the conversation steered away from religion and, often, you can get along with them just fine. In fact, the scary thing is, many of them look just like normal people, and the special glasses that reveal them always seem to have some sort of defect that renders them inoperable.
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Old 01-18-2020, 05:04 AM
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Nobody's mentioned the Wildmon bastards? Donnie, Timmie, Walker (who names their kid Walker?) and whatever other Wildmons there are associated with the American Family Association. Any religious association with the word Family in their name is almost guaranteed to be nothing but a bunch of inbred brainless bigots.

And there's the asshole son of Billy Graham. Billy wasn't so bad, considering the time in which he was preaching. Towards the end of his life, he admitted that he didn't believe anymore, but what else was he going to do? But his son Franklin, just an absolute piece of shit, bigoted as anyone you could name. And there is the unimaginatively named Jerry Falwell Jr, even worse than his father and equally as fuckheaded as Frankie.

And then there's Ray Cuntfart... Comfort... or did I have that right the first time? Intellectually dishonest is not the worst of his traits, just the most noticeable. And his boytoy Cunt Cam-moron. Sanctimonious piece of shit.

And there's Peter Popoff. How the fuck does this fucking fuckhead still have followers? A known conman, exposed 30 years ago, and still taking advantage of the gullible and stupid.
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Old 01-18-2020, 09:42 AM
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Be careful, though. I was raised in a Baptist environment, and they were decent people. However, that was long, long ago, in a place where religion was not so much the forefront of the local culture. We went to a tiny church, barely bigger than a four bedroom house, that sat in the looming shadow of the massive synagogue across the parking lot.

You see, we were American Baptists, which are the cult sect that is more mildly tempered. At least, back then it was (and my dad was a decent, live-and-let-live guy to his dying day a decade ago). The Southern Baptists are the fuckwipes who try to sow misery and bullshit across the land, the assholes that Uncle Ronny hitched his wagon to, starting us on a downward slide toward theocracy.

And even then, probably a goodly fraction of Southern Baptists are actually tolerable people. Keep the conversation steered away from religion and, often, you can get along with them just fine. In fact, the scary thing is, many of them look just like normal people, and the special glasses that reveal them always seem to have some sort of defect that renders them inoperable.
Fair point. I was only thinking of the Southern Baptists, and I should have made clear I was calling their doctrine and leadership awful and not their members, many of whom I'm sure manage to be pretty decent folks in spite of the garbage flung at them from the pulpit.
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Old 01-18-2020, 12:39 PM
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Catholics who oppose abortion do so because they believe it is the taking of a human life. Do you suppose this Bishop imposes his restrictions on the guy who gave Gacy his last injection?
If abortion is murder, how come they only go after women? Men who fuck around without birth control can impregnate dozens of women over the course of a single woman's pregnancy. That ought to be reckless indifference at least.
  #62  
Old 01-18-2020, 03:19 PM
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They don't care about an unborn fetus, all they care about is controlling women. That's why they never go after men. The church is a patriarchy, always has been.
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Old 01-18-2020, 05:11 PM
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If abortion is murder, how come they only go after women?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assass..._George_Tiller
  #64  
Old 01-18-2020, 05:58 PM
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I'm pretty happy with the Godless "figure it out for your own damned self" philosophy of some branches of Buddhism. Pure land, God Buddha, and much of the militant stuff (Burma) leave me stone cold, but even the Dalai Lama with his reincarnation fixation, or Thich Nhat Han, don't fight too badly with modern scientific methods. There's much less "take our weird story based on Faith, or you are damned" than you find in almost any Judeo-Christian sect.
That keeps me a happy, but he'll bound for sure, agnostic.
Pascal's wager aside, that seems the safest, least angsty place to be.
Of course, I don't advertise, because the overly serious Godders would badger me, and I'd be forced to undermine their incorrect faith in response. That's a scenario That's bad for everyone.
Let them rub blue mud in their belly if it keeps them sane, and does not hurt me.

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  #65  
Old 01-18-2020, 07:38 PM
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Men who fuck around without birth control can impregnate dozens of women over the course of a single woman's pregnancy.
That's because men who fuck around are simply giving in to the temptation presented by immodest women. They can't be expected to control themselves! It's up to women to remain pure and keep their sin-zones out of sight, thus ensuring that men remain Godly and monogamous.
  #66  
Old 01-19-2020, 11:01 AM
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There's much less "take our weird story based on Faith, or you are damned" than you find in almost any Judeo-Christian sect.
Hey, leave the Jews out of that gross generalization! Although there is undoutedly some Jewish sect somewhere that has that attitude (two Jews, three opinions), all of mainstream Judaism and even the most extreme fundamentalist sects do not believe in eternal damnation for matters of faith. The vast majority of Jews do not believe in any form of Hell at all, and even those few Orthodox sects that do say that the longest anyone will spend there is one year. And that would be for some heinous crime like mass murder, not what one believes. (And Jewish "hell" is very different from the Christian concept of Hell.)

Also, to defend Christianity, a pretty large portion of them don't take that attitude either.
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Old 01-19-2020, 11:51 AM
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Also, to defend Christianity, a pretty large portion of them don't take that attitude either.
How large a portion would you say? A sixth of a cake would be a pretty large portion to put on a plate, for instance, but it is still only one sixth of the whole cake.
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Old 01-19-2020, 12:59 PM
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How large a portion would you say? A sixth of a cake would be a pretty large portion to put on a plate, for instance, but it is still only one sixth of the whole cake.
I have no idea what portion of self-described Christians don't share the "take our weird story based on Faith, or you are damned" attitude. It's an interesting question, though.
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Old 01-19-2020, 01:09 PM
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I went to my wife's dad's funeral ELCA Lutheran. got a long lecture on "the wages of sin is death".
The "Minister" is perfectly welcome to go schtup himself.

Yes, Commasense, the Judeos, seem freer of crap than most, but talking to the serious conservatives can leave quite a bad taste in the mouth. It is literally their way or the highway.
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Old 01-19-2020, 01:39 PM
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At least the notion of innocent but unbaptized babies being damned has passed away. Even for someone like me who shrugs agnostic, that's enough to get Jesus to pull out the nails with his teeth, climb down and kick some serious butt!
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Old 01-19-2020, 02:38 PM
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Hey, leave the Jews out of that gross generalization! . . . .
Absolutely, and you'll get no argument from me about Jews and hell, damnation, etc.

But, the OP stated "But, really, fuck all religion . . . this is my attempt at an Omnibus thread. How bad is religion? Let us count the ways!" And, as a member of the tribe I have no hesitation to say that the Jewish religion, like all religions, can be bad.

I get particularly pissed at what the Orthodox Jews have done to Israel. Basically, because of their powerful influence in a system where coalition governments are the norm, they have changed what was established as a secular state into one where religious zealots call too many major shots.

Even outside of Israel, in Orthodox circles women are not equal to men. I find that bad. I also find it sick that kids and young adults who might have otherwise done something productive for the bigger multi-denominational society that surrounds (and protects) their island of religious fantasy, are not even taught the rudiments of reading (English), the most basic math, or anything else other than Biblical Hebrew. Cause that's all you need to study Talmud. All fucking day. Every day.
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Old 01-19-2020, 05:02 PM
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How about a Catholic school principal who takes some of the children in his school on a field trip, and while they are sleeping, decides to demonstrate exemplary Christian behavior to his wards by going out to a strip club, getting drunk, refusing to pay his bill, fighting with police, and getting arrested?

https://abc7chicago.com/catholic-sch...-trip/5327951/
He can honestly claim that it is safer for the kids to be under his care than the pedophiles.
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Old 01-19-2020, 06:33 PM
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Absolutely, and you'll get no argument from me about Jews and hell, damnation, etc.

But, the OP stated "But, really, fuck all religion . . . this is my attempt at an Omnibus thread. How bad is religion? Let us count the ways!" And, as a member of the tribe I have no hesitation to say that the Jewish religion, like all religions, can be bad.

I get particularly pissed at what the Orthodox Jews have done to Israel. Basically, because of their powerful influence in a system where coalition governments are the norm, they have changed what was established as a secular state into one where religious zealots call too many major shots.

Even outside of Israel, in Orthodox circles women are not equal to men. I find that bad. I also find it sick that kids and young adults who might have otherwise done something productive for the bigger multi-denominational society that surrounds (and protects) their island of religious fantasy, are not even taught the rudiments of reading (English), the most basic math, or anything else other than Biblical Hebrew. Cause that's all you need to study Talmud. All fucking day. Every day.
You get no argument from me. And you didn't even mention how the Orthodox are having so many children that they will eventually be the majority of all Jews.

Fundamentalists of all stripes suck.
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Old 01-19-2020, 06:49 PM
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Nobody's mentioned the Wildmon bastards? Donnie, Timmie, Walker (who names their kid Walker?) and whatever other Wildmons there are associated with the American Family Association. Any religious association with the word Family in their name is almost guaranteed to be nothing but a bunch of inbred brainless bigots.

And there's the asshole son of Billy Graham. Billy wasn't so bad, considering the time in which he was preaching. Towards the end of his life, he admitted that he didn't believe anymore, but what else was he going to do? But his son Franklin, just an absolute piece of shit, bigoted as anyone you could name. And there is the unimaginatively named Jerry Falwell Jr, even worse than his father and equally as fuckheaded as Frankie.

And then there's Ray Cuntfart... Comfort... or did I have that right the first time? Intellectually dishonest is not the worst of his traits, just the most noticeable. And his boytoy Cunt Cam-moron. Sanctimonious piece of shit.

And there's Peter Popoff. How the fuck does this fucking fuckhead still have followers? A known conman, exposed 30 years ago, and still taking advantage of the gullible and stupid.
Can you find a link where Billy Graham said he was no longer a believer?

Jack Van Impe has died. His Stepford-wife Rexella lives on.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Van_Impe

Peter Popoff is a footnote. How about Jimmy Swaggart? My local cable package includes a channel called SonLife, which is not for dyslexic Rush fans but is actually - you guessed it - 24-hour Swaggart family programming. You had better bet they probably don't show this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWkVa-_sd24
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Old 01-19-2020, 07:06 PM
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Jack Van Impe has died. His Stepford-wife Rexella lives on.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Van_Impe
Awww... they had a special kind of weirdness about them (and Chuck Ohman was a great voiceover man). They were so much fun with their very bright and eager enthusiasm about the (always coming, never arriving) Tribulation and the World Government that almost every month it was someone different who'd be bringing it about...
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Old 01-19-2020, 08:29 PM
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No links on Graham not believing, I read that in a magazine, and not one of those tabloids. You could Google (or Bing) but it might take a few pages to find the info.
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Old 01-19-2020, 09:27 PM
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Awww... they had a special kind of weirdness about them (and Chuck Ohman was a great voiceover man). They were so much fun with their very bright and eager enthusiasm about the (always coming, never arriving) Tribulation and the World Government that almost every month it was someone different who'd be bringing it about...
I used to watch them sometimes for that reason. He was so happy that the end of the world was coming. And I had to admire how he scrupulously cited all his biblical references. He'd be zipping through his bit, seamlessly saying "Revelation 4:13" or whatever after every quote or paraphrase. He was a nut, and his brand of Christian eschatology is dangerous, but he was so watchable.
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Old 01-19-2020, 09:29 PM
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No links on Graham not believing, I read that in a magazine, and not one of those tabloids. You could Google (or Bing) but it might take a few pages to find the info.
Respectfully, I think if Billy Graham recanted his beliefs late in his life, that would be fairly well reported.
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Old 01-19-2020, 11:55 PM
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Here’s my nomination for the awfullest religious leaders and the worlds worst religion.

There is a polygamous cult in Utah known as The Kingston Group., with an estimated 3500 members. Their church is The Latter Day Church of Christ and their business arm is the rather innocuous sounding Davis County Cooperative Society. They refer to themselves as ( no shit) The Order. They are very hierarchical, the men in the group all carry numerical rank —- not just the leaders, someone might be 74. Or 106. And they all pray in the direction of “The Home Place” 3 times a day.

Here’s a pretty good article with lots of background information.
https://www.rollingstone.com/culture...empire-244969/

They do not live in compounds or wear archaic clothing. They live scattered throughout the greater Salt Lake City area, wearing modern clothing, hiding in plain sight.They have white supremacist beliefs, believing ( as do many fundamentalists) that dark skin is a mark of sin. They believe in purifying bloodlines through incest. They claim not to engage in child marriages and that claim is suspect. However, most women are “spiritually married” to an older male relative as soon as they reach the age of consent and they have been groomed from birth for this role.

They are indoctrinated from birth to believe that The Order is everything and that the path to God and salvation lies in subjugating oneself to the will of the of the Order. They practice consecration, the practice of turning over of all of one’s worldly possessions to the Order.

The Kingston Group owns a vast network of mainstream businesses in Utah and the surrounding states, including a large restaurant supply chain. Members of the cult are assigned to work for one of these businesses. It is hard to untangle their holdings and no one really knows how many businesses they run although this article by Brooke Adams features an incomplete list of 47.
https://user.xmission.com/~plporter/lds/kingston.htm

They are paid a pittance for their work and they aren’t paid at all in the traditional sense. ALL their pay is turned over to the Davis County Cooperative Society and it is used to fund an account that can be only used at the businesses owned by the Order ( the company store, as it were). They are taught from a very young age that if the Order doesn’t have it, they don’t need it. And if the Order doesn’t think you need something, you aren’t getting it, regardless of your account balance.

This economic slavery is often used punitively and members that are out of favor are often given crappy jobs as punishment not only for their own acts but for the sins of their family members, in a dynamic that resembles North Korea more than anything else. One of the rare defectors left after he realized that his children would be locked into a life of minimum wage labor in the cult’s coal mine - just like he was, because his mother had briefly left the Order and married an outsider when she was young.

The cult doesn’t doom everyone to a live of minimum wage labor, some are gifted with a higher education to perform professional services and legal work for the Order. But the cult decides and many women live their lives as low wage baby machines , working low skill jobs for no money, servicing an older “husband” who stops by their crappy apartment few times a week, and popping out child after child to increase the power and influence of the Order.

But the leaders are educated and well-spoken, issuing statements such as this
https://www.cbs.com/shows/whistleblo...blower-claims/

Which is what makes them so much more evil than some of the other cult leaders. And that they are running a vast economic empire built on slave labor in the 21st century USA.

Utah has a fairly long standing policy of not prosecuting polygamy as a crime, and the portions of the bigamy statue that applied to plural marriage have been ruled unconstitutional. The argument is that the “spiritual” multiple marriages have absolutely no legal standing and it would be discriminatory to prosecute people for adultery or cohabitation simply because they are doing it for religious purposes.

So they can’t really arrest these guys for polygamy and they are so secretive that it’s really hard to nail them for other crimes. Every now and then they get them, there was a large fraud prosecution for a Kingston company this summer. Salt Lake TribuneFeds move to seize homes and businesses from polygamous Kingston Group as fraud defendants plead guilty
But, by and large, they get away with it .

Last edited by Ann Hedonia; 01-19-2020 at 11:56 PM.
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Old 01-20-2020, 11:20 AM
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Nobody's mentioned the Wildmon bastards? Donnie, Timmie, Walker (who names their kid Walker?)
At least without naming the other one "Texas Ranger" instead of Donnie or Timmie.
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Old 01-21-2020, 10:21 AM
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No links on Graham not believing, I read that in a magazine, and not one of those tabloids. You could Google (or Bing) but it might take a few pages to find the info.
I looked but I didn't find anything about Billy Graham. Did you mean Charles Templeton?
Different guy, and not on his deathbed - he announced his agnosticism in 1957 and didn't die until 2001. He also didn't stick to his ministry after losing his faith - he became a broadcaster and writer after a brief foray into politics.

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Shodan
  #82  
Old 01-21-2020, 10:24 PM
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No links on Graham not believing, I read that in a magazine, and not one of those tabloids. You could Google (or Bing) but it might take a few pages to find the info.
I heard an interview with Fred Phelps' granddaughter, who stated near the end of his life, he expressed doubt about god and his own beliefs. This apparently got him disfellowshipped by his church/kin just before his death. His granddaughter left the church.
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Old 01-22-2020, 01:38 AM
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Also, to defend Christianity, a pretty large portion of them don't take that attitude either.
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How large a portion would you say? A sixth of a cake would be a pretty large portion to put on a plate, for instance, but it is still only one sixth of the whole cake.

According to this poll a pretty large amount, A majority of all American Christians (52%) think that at least some non-Christian faiths can lead to eternal life, with only 29% believing that theirs is the one true religion that leads to eternal life.

The problem is that the more moderate faiths are more likely to keep their religious beliefs to themselves, so all you hear about in the media are the fire and brimstone types.
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Old 01-22-2020, 01:47 AM
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I was trying to remember a particular preacher guy, so I searched on megachurches, which led to an odd discovery. The largest church in my state, by attendance, is in a backwater town that has a population around half what is listed for the church's average weekly draw. It is at least fifty miles from the biggest, most sinny, city in the state in a pole building amidst a lumber yard, a hot rod dealer and a heavy equipment company. It looks like they do live electrified music for their "services", in a barn-like setting.

Even the normal people in this area are pretty weird.
  #85  
Old 01-22-2020, 04:32 PM
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Before everyone jumps down my throat, I am in no way defending pedophile priests, or embezzling priests, or the bishops who shuffled the pervs from parish to parish. As an observant Catholic, I probably hate these people more than you do. The sin of scandal (it's a technical term, meaning a sin that causes others to doubt their faith) is a very big deal in Catholicism. As is molesting children.

That said, of course it's possible to be a faithful Catholic and a sinner, even a child molester. We all are sinners in one way or another. We know this.
As a no longer "practicing" Catholic, I say "fuck that shit".

To hell with the pedos. To hell with the embezzlers. To hell with the pervs. To hell with the ones who DARE tell ME what to think , feel, or believe at this point. And to hell with anyone that says the exercise of my own mind (be it doubt, questioning or what-the-fuck-ever) is a "scandal". The questioning of faith, or dogma is sign that you actually THINK.

They want mindless unthinking minions? Fuck them. They want to protect pedos? Fuck them.

I walked away from all their bullshit long ago.



And another thing. That "we are sinners"? Fuck THAT too. I never embezzled or raped children. Fuck them. To hell with the lot of them and their lying self serving sanctimonious hypocritical bullshit.

Last edited by SteveG1; 01-22-2020 at 04:36 PM.
  #86  
Old 01-23-2020, 10:10 AM
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So how can religious folks who oppose abortion claim that pregnant women who are single should have to give birth and have the option of single motherhood, yet condemn homosexuals who raise children as "child abuse" because "children need a mother and a father"? Isn't that hypocrisy supreme?

And if a lesbian gets pregnant by rape, I guess she should be forced to have the child and forced to give it up. And, hey if a woman gets pregnant by rape, the baby did nothing wrong. It's not wrong to tie a woman to her rapist for the rest of her life if he claims paternal rights, and the child shoukld be delighted to know it is the product of rape.
  #87  
Old 01-23-2020, 11:34 AM
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So how can religious folks who oppose abortion claim that pregnant women who are single should have to give birth and have the option of single motherhood, yet condemn homosexuals who raise children as "child abuse" because "children need a mother and a father"? Isn't that hypocrisy supreme?

And if a lesbian gets pregnant by rape, I guess she should be forced to have the child and forced to give it up. And, hey if a woman gets pregnant by rape, the baby did nothing wrong. It's not wrong to tie a woman to her rapist for the rest of her life if he claims paternal rights, and the child shoukld be delighted to know it is the product of rape.
That's a pretty good summary of just how fucked up it is. But NOTICE, there is nothing about holding the "baby daddy" or the rapist responsible for anything.

Maybe the old solution of looking for a tree and stout rope for the rapist/deadbeat was the right answer all along.
  #88  
Old 01-23-2020, 11:40 AM
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Why shouldn't the baby daddy get paternal rights? A child needs a mother and a father. Depriving it of a father would be wrong because "the baby didn't do anything wrong and it needs a mother and a father."

Anti-abortion groups believe the fetus should have more rights than the pregnant woman.
  #89  
Old 01-23-2020, 12:22 PM
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Why shouldn't the baby daddy get paternal rights? A child needs a mother and a father. Depriving it of a father would be wrong because "the baby didn't do anything wrong and it needs a mother and a father."

Anti-abortion groups believe the fetus should have more rights than the pregnant woman.
If the baby daddy is just out to dip his wick and provides NO support, he gets no sympathy from me. He should then get no rights, except the "right" to have part of his money garnished to support however many kids he fathered, by however many women he had. Some men are so bad that "depriving" the child of his presence is a far lesser evil. Let's have some accountability.

If he's a rapist, NO rights for him except to pay support during and after prison. If he fights it, just hang him. And then whatever he did have either goes to the mother, or gets sold and the cash goes to the mother.

Last edited by SteveG1; 01-23-2020 at 12:23 PM.
  #90  
Old 01-23-2020, 12:45 PM
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I do know a lesbian who got pregnant by rape, had the child and raised it with her partner. When she was deciding what to do I told her to ask some really religious Christians about it. They said "Oh, have the baby, but give it to a REAL family." Apparently she and her partner were not real enough.

The rapist's family later threatened to seek custody, claiming "If a lesbian can be a good mother, a rapist can be a good father."
  #91  
Old 01-23-2020, 02:56 PM
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So how can religious folks who oppose abortion claim that pregnant women who are single should have to give birth and have the option of single motherhood, yet condemn homosexuals who raise children as "child abuse" because "children need a mother and a father"? Isn't that hypocrisy supreme?

And if a lesbian gets pregnant by rape, I guess she should be forced to have the child and forced to give it up. And, hey if a woman gets pregnant by rape, the baby did nothing wrong. It's not wrong to tie a woman to her rapist for the rest of her life if he claims paternal rights, and the child shoukld be delighted to know it is the product of rape.
all religion is hypocrisy supreme
  #92  
Old 01-24-2020, 02:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Annie-Xmas View Post
Why shouldn't the baby daddy get paternal rights? A child needs a mother and a father. Depriving it of a father would be wrong because "the baby didn't do anything wrong and it needs a mother and a father."

Anti-abortion groups believe the fetus should have more rights than the pregnant woman.

They believe the fetus should have more rights than they will allow it to have once it becomes a born baby.
  #93  
Old 01-24-2020, 09:21 AM
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He can honestly claim that it is safer for the kids to be under his care than the pedophiles.
And he'd be RIGHT.
  #94  
Old 01-24-2020, 09:22 AM
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I do know a lesbian who got pregnant by rape, had the child and raised it with her partner. When she was deciding what to do I told her to ask some really religious Christians about it. They said "Oh, have the baby, but give it to a REAL family." Apparently she and her partner were not real enough.

The rapist's family later threatened to seek custody, claiming "If a lesbian can be a good mother, a rapist can be a good father."
Please tell me he had a real bad "accident".
  #95  
Old 01-24-2020, 09:52 AM
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Not that I know of, but his family never followed through on the custody claim.

I've heard the rah-rah Christians state that Christians should be the first choice as adoptive parents.
  #96  
Old 01-24-2020, 10:00 AM
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They believe the fetus should have more rights than they will allow it to have once it becomes a born baby.

Yeah, really — once you are born, then it’s “survival of the fittest” and if you’re among the losers, too bad. Which is damn ironic when you consider how many of them are antievolutionists.
  #97  
Old 01-26-2020, 08:47 AM
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I've heard the rah-rah Christians state that Christians should be the first choice as adoptive parents.
From their POV, this is totally correct: if a baby's adopted by Good Christian Parents, then the baby's more likely to grow up Christian and be 'saved' and go to heaven when it dies.

Now there's no reason why anyone else should buy into this bullshit, but given their assumptions about this life and the aprés vie, it makes perfect sense.
  #98  
Old 01-26-2020, 08:58 AM
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And there's this:
“We command all satanic pregnancies to miscarry right now” — Special Adviser to the White House Faith and Opportunity Initiative Paula White

Yeah, there's a word to describe deliberately making a miscarriage happen. Eight letters, begins with 'a'.

IIRC, them types are usually against that. But apparently if the pregnancy is 'satanic' it's OK to blow right past pro-choice to being pro-mandatory-abortion. The only consistent aspect, of course, is to remove choice from the pregnant woman.

As Josh Marshall points out, since they're 'satanic' they're not 'children' or 'unborn babies' or any of that; they're now just 'pregnancies.'

I can see it becoming the new line when an unmarried pro-life evangelical woman finds herself pregnant: regardless of how she and her bf were having sex and all, her pregnancy was clearly contrary to God's timing and therefore 'satanic.' So in her case an abortion is absolutely mandatory.
  #99  
Old 01-26-2020, 12:29 PM
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I heard an interview with Fred Phelps' granddaughter, who stated near the end of his life, he expressed doubt about god and his own beliefs. This apparently got him disfellowshipped by his church/kin just before his death. His granddaughter left the church.
Whatever he believed or pretended to believe, or disavowed, that fuck can burn forever in the same hell he wished on everyone else.
  #100  
Old 01-27-2020, 10:06 AM
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What do they consider a "satanic pregnancy"? Jewish? Muslim? Lesbian? Atheist? Unwed mother?

I know it's not one resulting from rape, because tying a woman to her rapist for life is not considered wrong in their book. Slut got what she deserved.
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