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  #101  
Old 03-13-2018, 06:03 PM
Chronos Chronos is offline
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Have any of Trump's spokescreatures given a reason for Tillerson's firing yet? I mean, yes, we know that the reason is because he doesn't like Putin murdering people, but the spokescreatures can't exactly come out and say that murdering people is good.

And wasn't Rick Perry already in the cabinet? Secretary of I'd-like-to-eliminate-this-department?
  #102  
Old 03-13-2018, 06:22 PM
Happy Lendervedder Happy Lendervedder is offline
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This is what happens when John Kelly takes a spa day.
  #103  
Old 03-13-2018, 06:22 PM
RadioWave RadioWave is offline
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Trump himself gave a pretty detailed explanation on why he fired Tillerson this morning. He said that Tillerson and him had very different ideas on how the state department should work, specifically mentioning the Iran agreement.
Quote:
QUESTION: Mr. President, what did you say to Rex Tillerson?

TRUMP: Rex and I have been talking about this for a long time. We ó we got along actually quite well, but we disagreed on things.

When you look at the Iran deal, I think itís terrible. I guess he thought (ph) it was OK. I wanted to either break it or do something, and he felt a little bit differently.
  #104  
Old 03-13-2018, 06:37 PM
Stranger On A Train Stranger On A Train is offline
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Have any of Trump's spokescreatures given a reason for Tillerson's firing yet? I mean, yes, we know that the reason is because he doesn't like Putin murdering people, but the spokescreatures can't exactly come out and say that murdering people is good.

And wasn't Rick Perry already in the cabinet? Secretary of I'd-like-to-eliminate-this-department?
I think The Texermanís firing has more to do with his general defiance against Trumpís mercurial view of international relations than his specific recognition of the nerve agent poisoning of Sergei Skripal and daughter, although this may have brought things to a head. Whatever else you think about Tillersonís efforts as Secretary of State (and I donít think much of him from the standpoint of effective competence), he did seem to take the role seriously and try to moderate the aggressive if ill-defined statements coming from the Oval Office, and was clearly not playing Patsy to keep Baby Trump entertained. Trump cannot tolerate any sense of dissent, nor does he have sufficient leadership skills or interpersonal ability to hash out disagreements without pouting like an infant, so of course he fires Tillerson remotely and without discussion of continuity. For Tillersonís part, I have to say he has taken the move with more grace and dignity than anyone else involved in any part of this administration has evidenced to date, and regardless of what I think of the practices in his prior business he seems genuinely concerned for the fate of the nation.

Rick Perry is the current Secretary of Energy, a role he is not only completely unqualified to hold but appears to have no respect or concern for whatsoever. Moving him over to DVA, a department that has already been given short shrift and is also essentially unqualified to run (aside from his 5 year career in the US Air Force in the mid-ĎSeventies in a non-combat role as a C-130 pilot he has not been involved in any way in managing military or large health-and-services-based organizations) appears to be just shuffling around shells in an effort to conceal just how badly the entire cabinet has performed and how utterly unqualified and/or conflicted every single one of them is. That Ben Carson is still HHS Secretary after his son has been openly selling influence in HUD contracts alone would be enough to sink a cabinet secretary in any normal adminstration (and had it occurred under the last president would have been ammunition to call for impeachment) and yet, there is so much other shit being stirred on a daily basis that it isnít even on the radar for more than a few hours before being overtaken by some other ridiculous bullshit that Trump or one of his children is up to.

This is like a game of Fiasco that has really gotten out of control.

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  #105  
Old 03-13-2018, 11:13 PM
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Maybe he’s just repaying his obligations by getting every donor a White House job mention for their resume. They may even come into the positions with the understanding that it ain’t gonna last, but you’ll still have been ‘Working in the White House”, in the cabinet, whatever.

Anyone know what the severance packages looks like for these positions? As a former president, Trump will continue to get security briefings after leaving office, security detail and a lifelong pension, I think. Do other positions get such perks too?

Last edited by elbows; 03-13-2018 at 11:14 PM.
  #106  
Old 03-14-2018, 09:16 AM
asahi asahi is offline
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Any bets on how long Pompeo will last?
He'll last as long as he wants to. Pompeo probably has a Trumpian view of the federal government, that it governs best by governing the least. He's probably more of a natural at allowing the Department of State to languish. Tillerson was arguably the worst Sec of State in the modern era, but if we can only say one thing positive about his time there, it's that he at least took his job seriously, even if he had absolutely no idea how to do it.
  #107  
Old 03-14-2018, 09:17 AM
Chronos Chronos is offline
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I find it hard to say that Tillerson took his job seriously when one of our most important allies in a region of the world where diplomacy is especially important still doesn't have an ambassador.
  #108  
Old 03-14-2018, 09:37 AM
Translucent Daydream Translucent Daydream is offline
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Damn, I thought you were satirizing the intro to "The A-Team". Anyway, try saying that in a deep announcer's voice.
No no no.... do it in the ďPeopleís Court Announcer GuyĒ voice. Itís better.
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  #109  
Old 03-14-2018, 10:08 AM
Stranger On A Train Stranger On A Train is offline
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I find it hard to say that Tillerson took his job seriously when one of our most important allies in a region of the world where diplomacy is especially important still doesn't have an ambassador.
I wouldnít say he did it well, and I suspect the lack of an ambassadorial appointment is just another indication of disagreement between Tillerson and Trump (the President typically blesses such appointments and theyíre often given out as rewards for political loyalty), but Tillerson at least seemed to be trying to moderate the chest-thumping and drum-beating tone toward North Korea and Iran, which at least indiciates that he respected the diplomatic approach is the preferred option rather than just acceeding to adminstration pressure to join the war party. Iím not carrying a torch for Tillerson, whom I think was ill-suited and unqualified to be Secretary of State, but unlike the other infantile members of Trumpís cabinet he didnít seem to be in the job simply and transparently to enrich himself.

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  #110  
Old 03-14-2018, 10:18 AM
RTFirefly RTFirefly is offline
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And for all of Tillerson's manifold faults, Pompeo is almost certain to be worse. He will reinforce Trump's worst traits, rather than resist them. I can only hope that a GOP Senator or two can be found to vote against confirming Pompeo as Secretary of State, and forcing Trump to pick someone more normal for the job.
  #111  
Old 03-14-2018, 10:58 AM
Defensive Indifference Defensive Indifference is offline
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I can only hope that a GOP Senator or two can be found to vote against confirming Pompeo as Secretary of State, and forcing Trump to pick someone more normal for the job.
That presumes there's a normal person left who will want the job.
  #112  
Old 03-14-2018, 11:01 AM
Happy Lendervedder Happy Lendervedder is offline
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And for all of Tillerson's manifold faults, Pompeo is almost certain to be worse. He will reinforce Trump's worst traits, rather than resist them. I can only hope that a GOP Senator or two can be found to vote against confirming Pompeo as Secretary of State, and forcing Trump to pick someone more normal for the job.
Well on MSNBC, Rand Paul just came out strongly against both Pompeo and the lady nominated for the CIA job. But then preemptively blamed the Democrats if they get approved.
  #113  
Old 03-14-2018, 12:18 PM
Defensive Indifference Defensive Indifference is offline
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Well on MSNBC, Rand Paul just came out strongly against both Pompeo and the lady nominated for the CIA job. But then preemptively blamed the Democrats if they get approved.
I don't like much about Paul's politics, but at least he opposes torture and unnecessary wars. It's sad that that makes him stand out, but here we are.
  #114  
Old 03-14-2018, 02:52 PM
dalej42 dalej42 is offline
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We've seen this movie before with Rand Paul. If his vote isn't necessary, he'll sometimes play his maverick card. But, if it is needed, he'll be a Republican and vote for any one that Donald Trump puts before him.
  #115  
Old 03-14-2018, 02:55 PM
Sage Rat Sage Rat is online now
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It's possible that Trump has/will shoot himself in the foot by axing his cabinet. He might be thinking that it means he can pick the people he wants, at last, but he's forgetting the Senate approval process.

His tariffs bill and his opposition to the NRA have both, likely, started to turn the party against him fairly strongly. The poor showing in Pennsylvania also can't help to have endeared him to the Republicans in the Senate, since they can reasonably blame him for the loss.

Trump has been acting out and trying to get out from under their thumb. All this does is give them a good chance to put him into an even tighter straightjacket.

The only path I see forward for Trump is to try and rule by Tweet in entirety (which he is basically already getting close to), and that's pretty quickly going to make it clear that outside of firing people, he has no real power to make them do what he wants once everyone has decided to ignore his Tweet-commands.

Last edited by Sage Rat; 03-14-2018 at 02:56 PM.
  #116  
Old 03-14-2018, 02:58 PM
Fotheringay-Phipps Fotheringay-Phipps is offline
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The flip side of that is that if the Democrats take over congress in 2018, then Trump's veto power will be the main bastion of Republican power. Since Trump is not much of a Republican to begin with, there's a very good chance that he makes deals with the emboldened Democratic majority in an effort to get credit for doing something. That's something that Republicans would need to think about when thinking of alienating him.
  #117  
Old 03-14-2018, 03:00 PM
Bassman Bassman is offline
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It's possible that Trump has/will shoot himself in the foot by axing his cabinet.
According to Vanity Fair, that looks like what he's trying to do.
  #118  
Old 03-14-2018, 03:05 PM
running coach running coach is offline
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It's possible that Trump has/will shoot himself in the foot by axing his cabinet. He might be thinking that it means he can pick the people he wants, at last, but he's forgetting the Senate approval process.
Wanna bet he'll try to simply ignore it? Just appoint people and dare Congress to do something about it.
Wanna bet Congress rolls over like a whipped dog?
  #119  
Old 03-14-2018, 05:49 PM
Sage Rat Sage Rat is online now
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The flip side of that is that if the Democrats take over congress in 2018, then Trump's veto power will be the main bastion of Republican power. Since Trump is not much of a Republican to begin with, there's a very good chance that he makes deals with the emboldened Democratic majority in an effort to get credit for doing something. That's something that Republicans would need to think about when thinking of alienating him.
In theory, the Democrats are going to have an astonishing amount of leverage over Trump the instant the House flips over to their side (presuming that it does), since they'll have full powers to investigate him in all respects - sexual harassment, financial crimes, collusion, obstruction of justice, etc. - or to not investigate him. So they could always blackmail him into pretty much everything they ask for.

But they're not going to do that. They're going to start going to town on him like nothing else, and Trump will do everything he can to attack them, because that's what he does. Granted, he would probably be happy to fold and give them their way, but that only works if what the other person wants is to strike a deal with you. The Dems are just going to want to prove that he's a crook, so there won't be anything that he can give them.
  #120  
Old 03-14-2018, 05:58 PM
running coach running coach is offline
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In theory, the Democrats are going to have an astonishing amount of leverage over Trump the instant the House flips over to their side (presuming that it does), since they'll have full powers to investigate him in all respects - sexual harassment, financial crimes, collusion, obstruction of justice, etc. - or to not investigate him. So they could always blackmail him into pretty much everything they ask for.

But they're not going to do that. They're going to start going to town on him like nothing else, and Trump will do everything he can to attack them, because that's what he does. Granted, he would probably be happy to fold and give them their way, but that only works if what the other person wants is to strike a deal with you. The Dems are just going to want to prove that he's a crook, so there won't be anything that he can give them.
How about a confession?
  #121  
Old 03-14-2018, 06:16 PM
Sage Rat Sage Rat is online now
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How about a confession?
Nixon didn't even confess until 4 years after he was out of office. I don't see Trump ever even doing that much.
  #122  
Old 03-14-2018, 06:38 PM
Bijou Drains Bijou Drains is offline
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Nixon didn't even confess until 4 years after he was out of office. I don't see Trump ever even doing that much.
do you mean the Frost/Nixon interviews? That was 3 years later . He sort of confessed there to obstructing justice.
  #123  
Old 03-14-2018, 06:51 PM
Sage Rat Sage Rat is online now
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do you mean the Frost/Nixon interviews? That was 3 years later . He sort of confessed there to obstructing justice.
https://www.awesomestories.com/asset...-for-Watergate

"Four years after President Nixon resigned, he agreed to a series of interviews with David Frost, a British journalist. The first series of interviews - which took place in May of 1977 - were fairly easy for Nixon, and he avoided most controversial issues. "
  #124  
Old 03-14-2018, 07:15 PM
ThelmaLou ThelmaLou is offline
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Nixon didn't even confess until 4 years after he was out of office. I don't see Trump ever even doing that much.
In the first place, thump doesn't have enough self-awareness to confess to anything. In the second place, he has the attention span of an average goldfish (apologies to goldfish of above average intelligence), meaning his memory resets to zero every nine seconds. Something that happened yesterday is ancient history, let alone a year ago or more. Hell, something he said at the beginning of any sentence he utters is ancient history by the time he gets to the the end of the sentence.

Last edited by ThelmaLou; 03-14-2018 at 07:17 PM.
  #125  
Old 03-14-2018, 07:19 PM
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https://www.awesomestories.com/asset...-for-Watergate

"Four years after President Nixon resigned, he agreed to a series of interviews with David Frost, a British journalist. The first series of interviews - which took place in May of 1977 - were fairly easy for Nixon, and he avoided most controversial issues. "
This is rather mysterious. Nixon resigned August 9, 1974.
  #126  
Old 03-14-2018, 07:34 PM
Sage Rat Sage Rat is online now
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This is rather mysterious. Nixon resigned August 9, 1974.
Double-checking, I'll agree that my cite didn't know how to do math.
  #127  
Old 03-14-2018, 08:11 PM
alphaboi867 alphaboi867 is offline
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Nixon didn't even confess until 4 years after he was out of office. I don't see Trump ever even doing that much.
I could see Trump's mental state declining to the point were he accidently confesses something without even realize what he's doing.
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  #128  
Old 03-14-2018, 08:25 PM
Happy Lendervedder Happy Lendervedder is offline
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I could see a "You're goddamned right I ordered the Code Red!" scenario popping up at some point too.
  #129  
Old 03-15-2018, 06:57 AM
BobLibDem BobLibDem is online now
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Damn but today's Li'l Donnie comic is a good chuckle today with Rex, Vlad, and Donnie.
  #130  
Old 03-15-2018, 08:44 PM
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In theory, the Democrats are going to have an astonishing amount of leverage over Trump the instant the House flips over to their side (presuming that it does), since they'll have full powers to investigate him in all respects - sexual harassment, financial crimes, collusion, obstruction of justice, etc. - or to not investigate him. So they could always blackmail him into pretty much everything they ask for.

But they're not going to do that. They're going to start going to town on him like nothing else, and Trump will do everything he can to attack them, because that's what he does. Granted, he would probably be happy to fold and give them their way, but that only works if what the other person wants is to strike a deal with you. The Dems are just going to want to prove that he's a crook, so there won't be anything that he can give them.
You're forgetting one extra aspect: Trump's willingness and ability to go along with that. He gets really angry when other people can tell him what to do. It may not be a bluff, but Trump will likely treat it like it is, call them on it, and dare them to follow through with it.

So I'm not sure which scenario is actually better. The risk of Trump going along with what they want and getting some accomplishments under his belt might not be worth it for the Dems. We do kinda need to get rid of him to really repair the damage he's done.
  #131  
Old 03-16-2018, 08:30 AM
DesertDog DesertDog is offline
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In the first place, thump doesn't have enough self-awareness to confess to anything.
Now that's where you're wrong. Donny Two-scoops is nothing but self-aware. Like a two-year old, he thinks the world revolves around him and everything he wants should be done and everything he thinks -- however transiently* -- is the absolute truth. His wife, his children, his business associates, the whole goddam country exist only to pander to his needs and to stroke his ego.

*Your goldfish analogy is totally spot on.
  #132  
Old 03-16-2018, 11:25 AM
ThelmaLou ThelmaLou is offline
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Now that's where you're wrong. Donny Two-scoops is nothing but self-aware. Like a two-year old, he thinks the world revolves around him and everything he wants should be done and everything he thinks -- however transiently* -- is the absolute truth. His wife, his children, his business associates, the whole goddam country exist only to pander to his needs and to stroke his ego.

*Your goldfish analogy is totally spot on.
I would modify this to say he sees nothing but himself, but there's no awareness in what he sees, kwim? It's like I can look at myself in the mirror wearing a bikini and see myself, but I'm not aware that I look like a manatee in two hankies. I'm not aware that others are staring at me and either laughing or gagging.

IOW seeing =/= awareness

Last edited by ThelmaLou; 03-16-2018 at 11:26 AM.
  #133  
Old 03-16-2018, 02:21 PM
EddyTeddyFreddy EddyTeddyFreddy is offline
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It's like I can look at myself in the mirror wearing a bikini and see myself, but I'm not aware that I look like a manatee in two hankies.
Thanks for my belly laugh* of the day, says your sister manatee.

*And reminder of why I love the Dope.

Last edited by EddyTeddyFreddy; 03-16-2018 at 02:22 PM.
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