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  #6051  
Old Yesterday, 06:26 PM
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I've always been under the impression that if I for instance failed to attend my trial or participate at all, that I would be convicted.

Lots of things are set up this way, especially for the poor and middle class when dealing with the justice system. Good outcomes can be encouraged. Lets get to it. You may be considered innocent, but only until you fail to cooperate with the law or the constitution. I consider trump not to be a criminal defendant but a bad employee and job seeker who needs to be removed.
  #6052  
Old Yesterday, 08:18 PM
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So, considering the clear motive to acquit despite the evidence (as I see it. If anyone has an alibi for Trump & co., please share it), at what point does the GOP become a bunch of confederates? Inviting foreign powers to tilt an election to keep an above-the-law executive in power? Hard to imagine a less patriotic position, but I am sure these guys will be along with one soon.
  #6053  
Old Yesterday, 08:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Try2B Comprehensive View Post
So, considering the clear motive to acquit despite the evidence (as I see it. If anyone has an alibi for Trump & co., please share it), at what point does the GOP become a bunch of confederates? Inviting foreign powers to tilt an election to keep an above-the-law executive in power? Hard to imagine a less patriotic position, but I am sure these guys will be along with one soon.
I think the Senate Republicans will just 'yadda yadda' the emphasized (by me) bit away. They have consistently avoided answering any and all questions on the topic of Presidents calling on foreign powers to influence elections. That's a forbidden subject. Because after all, the Unitary Executive head can do whatever he damn well pleases, and it will turn out to be for the good of the entire nation! Because mystical magical reasons!

Republicans in the Senate will occupy themselves by following the lead of those in the House: complaining about those Awful, Awful Democrats and How Rude They Are to Our Great President. End of story.
  #6054  
Old Yesterday, 08:46 PM
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nm

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  #6055  
Old Yesterday, 09:01 PM
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The Republicans have no interest in actually participating.
They are not even pretending to be impartial, and they just want to get this over with, Constitution and Country be damned.
Why would they need to participate? They've already decided Trump is innocent, no matter what evidence MIGHT be presented.

Party over Country, and a pox on their houses.
  #6056  
Old Yesterday, 09:44 PM
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I think the Senate Republicans will just 'yadda yadda' the emphasized (by me) bit away. They have consistently avoided answering any and all questions on the topic of Presidents calling on foreign powers to influence elections. That's a forbidden subject. Because after all, the Unitary Executive head can do whatever he damn well pleases, and it will turn out to be for the good of the entire nation! Because mystical magical reasons!

Republicans in the Senate will occupy themselves by following the lead of those in the House: complaining about those Awful, Awful Democrats and How Rude They Are to Our Great President. End of story.
They can do that, but it will be increasingly hollow. They have sold themselves for years as the Moral Majority and the True Defenders of Mom, baseball and apple pie. God's party, yanno? And now they are cashing that ALL in to defend inviting foreign powers to rig an election.

I don't see them maintaining any moral authority going forward. And their chaining themselves to religion seems likely to backfire- after all that yammering about Jesus, they are actually one big gang of crooks. The moral? Never trust a Bible-beater, they aren't lying only about talking snakes, but literally everything. My values are superior as I am capable of intellectual honesty.

I can't see a way it isn't an utterly foolhardy move, unless the benefits of a little over a year more of Trump are just that astounding. Yeah, an criminal idiot as the head of the party. Good luck and good grief.
  #6057  
Old Yesterday, 10:13 PM
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I think the Senate Republicans will just 'yadda yadda' the emphasized (by me) bit away. They have consistently avoided answering any and all questions on the topic of Presidents calling on foreign powers to influence elections. That's a forbidden subject. Because after all, the Unitary Executive head can do whatever he damn well pleases, and it will turn out to be for the good of the entire nation! Because mystical magical reasons!

Republicans in the Senate will occupy themselves by following the lead of those in the House: complaining about those Awful, Awful Democrats and How Rude They Are to Our Great President. End of story.
What everyone needs to know is that the Republicans are done with democracy -- finished.

The impeachment isn't the beginning of the end; it's the end of the beginning of their attempt to destroy the power of ordinary people to have influence on their own government. After impeachment, a new phase begins.

As I've said, it gets worse - much worse - before it gets better.

You will see.
  #6058  
Old Yesterday, 10:22 PM
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What everyone needs to know is that the Republicans are done with democracy -- finished.

The impeachment isn't the beginning of the end; it's the end of the beginning of their attempt to destroy the power of ordinary people to have influence on their own government. After impeachment, a new phase begins.

As I've said, it gets worse - much worse - before it gets better.

You will see.
I hope you're wrong, but I fear you're right.

There are now two kinds of people in this country, those who believe in the US as a pluralistic democratic nation, and those who don't. For the latter, the pluralism is what constitutes, at base, the reason for their rejection of democracy.
  #6059  
Old Yesterday, 10:47 PM
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I hope you're wrong, but I fear you're right.

There are now two kinds of people in this country, those who believe in the US as a pluralistic democratic nation, and those who don't. For the latter, the pluralism is what constitutes, at base, the reason for their rejection of democracy.
Look at what Bill Barr is doing and saying as the head of the DoJ. He's made absolutely no bones about the fact that he is going to operate as Trump's attack dog because he believes in the power of the executive branch to advance conservative causes. Look at what Trump is saying about Chris Wray. Together, they're trying to plant the seed, trying to lay down the groundwork, trying to establish consent for whatever comes next.

You need to have a burning hatred of conservatives and what they're trying to do to you. If you don't, then you're just letting them prison rape you, and you deserve what you get, which is a stolen country. Rage is good.
  #6060  
Old Yesterday, 10:59 PM
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You never need burning hatred.
  #6061  
Old Yesterday, 11:14 PM
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You never need burning hatred.
I think the soldiers who made this country what it is, the ones who crushed immoral insurrection of the South, the ones who crushed the Axis in Germany, would disagree.

Sometimes, rage is good.
  #6062  
Old Yesterday, 11:31 PM
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Yah well sometimes rage is all one has. I think that describes the opposition right now, and it is leading them to support a criminal regime. They appear to be enraged at ghosts though- not only Benghazi but Hillary and the D's are responsible for the pizza sex ring and a whole host of other crimes which, to them, justify Any response- crimes for which nothing is ever proven and charges are never brought.

Now, if their guy is formally impeached on what looks like inarguable grounds, why, change the subject! D's are terrible! Put Nadler on the stand, because.. never mind why!!

And it is always "never mind why." Notice that? We see why "blind" and "rage" so often go together. Smart is better, and it just so happens we have the smart people who can actually prove a point. Let's leverage that.
  #6063  
Old Today, 07:39 AM
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Yah well sometimes rage is all one has. I think that describes the opposition right now, and it is leading them to support a criminal regime. They appear to be enraged at ghosts though- not only Benghazi but Hillary and the D's are responsible for the pizza sex ring and a whole host of other crimes which, to them, justify Any response- crimes for which nothing is ever proven and charges are never brought.

Now, if their guy is formally impeached on what looks like inarguable grounds, why, change the subject! D's are terrible! Put Nadler on the stand, because.. never mind why!!

And it is always "never mind why." Notice that? We see why "blind" and "rage" so often go together. Smart is better, and it just so happens we have the smart people who can actually prove a point. Let's leverage that.
It's not rage that conservatives have; they have entitlement and a desire to establish supremacy using whatever means they have at their disposal. There will still probably be a form of 'democracy' if they manage to succeed in their political heist, but it won't look anything like the democracy we now have. It will be one that rubber stamps and legitimizes their oligarchy and kleptocracy, and so will their justice system.
  #6064  
Old Today, 09:47 AM
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Ruh Roh:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehill...estimony%3famp

Quote:
A top aide to Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky is refuting U.S. Ambassador to the European Union Gordon Sondland's testimony in the impeachment inquiry against President Trump.

Sondland last month testified before a House committee that he told Zelensky's aide that the U.S. would not resume foreign aid until the country announced two investigations into Trump political rivals; however, the aide, Andriy Yermak, told Time in an interview published Tuesday that the conversation never happened.
And if Trump is an agent of Russia "the enemy of Ukraine", why would a top aide to the Ukranian President lie to help Trump?
  #6065  
Old Today, 09:58 AM
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Quick! Send Rudy to get to the bottom of that, and have him report back to the AG!
  #6066  
Old Today, 09:59 AM
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Ruh Roh:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehill...estimony%3famp



And if Trump is an agent of Russia "the enemy of Ukraine", why would a top aide to the Ukranian President lie to help Trump?

Because he knows the Senate will not vote to impeach?
  #6067  
Old Today, 10:01 AM
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New conspiracy theory from Rudy -- Adam Schiff has mutual fund investments with Franklin Templeton, and some of their funds have invested in Ukrainian companies. The horror!

https://talkingpointsmemo.com/muckra...op-bloodstream

Last edited by iiandyiiii; Today at 10:01 AM.
  #6068  
Old Today, 10:06 AM
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Quick! Send Rudy to get to the bottom of that, and have him report back to the AG!
Well from the same article no US officials are trying:
Quote:
Yermak told Time that no U.S. officials, including congressional committees overseeing the impeachment inquiry, have contacted him to seek testimony.
  #6069  
Old Today, 10:13 AM
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Impeachment was sealed the moment the Trump White House released the "transcript" in which Trump asks Ukraine to investigate Biden and tying that request to Congressionally approved military aid. That single piece of evidence was enough, and it remains enough -- the WH's (and Trump's) own words.
  #6070  
Old Today, 10:25 AM
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It's not rage that conservatives have; they have entitlement and a desire to establish supremacy using whatever means they have at their disposal. There will still probably be a form of 'democracy' if they manage to succeed in their political heist, but it won't look anything like the democracy we now have. It will be one that rubber stamps and legitimizes their oligarchy and kleptocracy, and so will their justice system.
Well, my view stems from recent conversations with a friend of mine with a lot of red state relatives- not very scientific, but his theory is that rural folks have been getting shit on for a long long time and are boiling over with resentment. People call 'em sister-fuckers and yokels and all of that kind of thing, and they're provoked. Reading Mencken's Monkey Trial essays for me anyway lends weight to be his theory- the author is right about evolution, sure, but he excoriates the population of Tennessee so ruthlessly that by the end, I had some sympathy for the Bible-beaters. One Can go too far.

I dunno. I think they should really be mad at the arch-capitalists, they're the ones sending the jobs overseas, wrecking unions and all that, and I don't think they or a lot of things for that matter fit neatly into one of two "sides". Whatever, that is what propaganda is for. I figure a clear-eyed approach can lead us to solutions to common problems and no group or region really has to be left out... but that runs into the current anti-intellectualism and we devolve into this dumb culture war between sides. I think that's counter productive and in the way, as everyone is just people, they won't always make sense.

Anyway, people have a lot of problems and I just don't think hating them will lead to progress.
  #6071  
Old Today, 10:25 AM
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Well from the same article no US officials are trying:
Perhaps you noticed that the only testimpny given was by Americans. Fuck yeah.
  #6072  
Old Today, 10:57 AM
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Why would they need to participate? They've already decided Trump is innocent, no matter what evidence MIGHT be presented.

Party over Country, and a pox on their houses.
Republicans used to be "Party over Country". That was what I like to refer to as "the good old days".

Today, Republicans are "Russia over Party over Country". They have (for some reason or other) sold themselves out entirely to a foreign power.
  #6073  
Old Today, 11:08 AM
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Quick! Send Rudy to get to the bottom of that, and have him report back to the AG!
Can a passport be cancelled in abstentia and, thus, the bearer not be allowed back in the country?

I'm thinking the Phillip Nolan gambit, here.
  #6074  
Old Today, 11:31 AM
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Can a passport be cancelled in abstentia and, thus, the bearer not be allowed back in the country?

I'm thinking the Phillip Nolan gambit, here.
It happened to this Krakhozhian.
  #6075  
Old Today, 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Try2B Comprehensive View Post
People call 'em sister-fuckers and yokels and all of that kind of thing, and they're provoked. Reading Mencken's Monkey Trial essays for me anyway lends weight to be his theory- the author is right about evolution, sure, but he excoriates the population of Tennessee so ruthlessly that by the end, I had some sympathy for the Bible-beaters. One Can go too far.
And urbanites are portrayed in some circles as uniformly anti-patriotic and not "Real Americans." Doesn't matter how many city-dwellers have joined the military in all the wars the U.S. has fought, city dwellers are all anti-American, anti-military, etc.

Also, as I've said before, politicians don't campaign and get elected in cities on a platform of separating from the countryside or not spending tax dollars on rural programs, but some politicians do campaign and get elected in the countryside on a platform of separating from the cities and not spending tax dollars on urban programs. Article. Another article.
  #6076  
Old Today, 01:39 PM
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I'd say make urban votes worth more than rural. We have had the just opposite for centuries, so there can't be a moral objection to it. I think the experiment ended and failed miserably, when dt got elected. Fin de seicle.

You can make the value of a vote based on the connections and proximity to fellow citizens, an algorithm basically about how central and proximate you are to society. The more populated your abode the more central you are. And I would add: the more your vote is worth to society. It's clear that power in the hands of isolated angry people is not well placed.

Are there objections? They could start to pay attention to the rest of the world, and maybe change their voting status by making good business decisions. Whose fault is it that they are miserable?
  #6077  
Old Today, 01:44 PM
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Can a passport be cancelled in abstentia and, thus, the bearer not be allowed back in the country?
Your passport is property of the State Department and can be revoked at any time. But under current US law, an American citizen or permanent resident can not lawfully be denied entry to the United States, whether or not they have a passport in hand.

OTOH, the entrant bears the burden of proof regarding their citizenship. That can be potentially difficult depending on one's circumstances.
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