#1101  
Old 12-09-2019, 07:01 PM
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I didn't have enough open um, circuits? on my circuit board, and putting in a 240V outlet for the charger would be non-trivial. Putting in the 120V charger was cheap.
  #1102  
Old 12-09-2019, 07:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Kent Clark View Post
He came today and I talked to him about chargers. He said my house and attached garage fit their standard job, which included the wiring, circuitry and a decent charger. The total cost, $750.
Most dedicated chargers are around $500, so it sounds like the cost was about $250 for the actual wiring. That's a good price.

I don't know about other EVs but the Tesla comes with their "mobile charger". It does 240V @ 32A, so it's no slouch. It can plug into a standard 14-50 outlet (or lots of other kinds).

In your situation, I'd pay the guy $250+$50 to install an outlet instead of the dedicated charger, and then use the mobile charger. It's easy enough to grab it in case you might need it on the road, but otherwise you can just leave it rolled up on the wall like a hose.
  #1103  
Old 12-09-2019, 07:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Dr. Strangelove View Post
In your situation, I'd pay the guy $250+$50 to install an outlet instead of the dedicated charger, and then use the mobile charger. It's easy enough to grab it in case you might need it on the road, but otherwise you can just leave it rolled up on the wall like a hose.
And a lot of chargers have both a direct-wire and plug-in version, so if you start out with just an outlet, you can always add a charger at a later date if you decide you need it.
  #1104  
Old 12-09-2019, 10:35 PM
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Y'know, as someone wisely pointed out all the way back in post#1089, I'm getting really tired of people in this thread declaring they get to decide which disruptions I'm allowed to be bothered by.
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What's preventing single-car owners from renting a car when they want to take a long trip?
What you're responding to was a direct response to asking why single-car owners would not choose to own an EV and rent an ICE whenever they want to take a 'long' trip. And the quote of mine that you're responding to didn't say anything remotely like 'you're not allowed to be super-avoidant of oil changes', so there's no basis to claim that I'm deciding what disruptions YOU are allowed to be bothered. But if anyone is seriously wondering why single car owners might find 'spending 30 minutes on an oil change 3-4 times a year' that you can do when it fits your schedule and that they don't run out of, less of a bother than 'spending 30+ minutes renting a car, taking it home, loading your stuff in it, then unloading it to return it 2+times a month whenever you're making a not-short trip', and that might not be available if you're taking a trip on a popular weekend for travelling, you've drunk way too much of the EV Kool-Aid.

Last edited by Pantastic; 12-09-2019 at 10:36 PM.
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Old 12-09-2019, 10:42 PM
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Holy shit, talk about nitpicking. I already apologized for being unclear and said that I described the place poorly, but that I was talking about RURAL not WILDERNESS. And the point I was making was not "oh wow, my EV is great for camping" but rather "It's not very hard to charge an EV in rural America."
Then I have no idea why you were trying to make a point about "It's not very hard to charge an EV in rural America" when that wasn't a point under discussion in the exchange we were having. That you can charge a car if you're willing to spend a long time at an electric outlet is not something I've disputed, nor that developed rural areas generally have power somewhere.
  #1106  
Old 12-09-2019, 10:51 PM
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Well, YT, there are some critics who, ten or twenty years from now with EVs having a 400 mile range, a charger on every corner, and gasoline at $15.00 a gallon, will still say they'll never take over.
Yeah, those people are pretty silly, are there any posting in the thread still?
  #1107  
Old Yesterday, 01:39 AM
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If your regular car runs out of gas you can just add some more and your on your way.

If your electric vehicle runs out of charge is there an equivalent to say adding a couple of gallons to get you home or to the next recharge station?
Tow or carry a range extender, i.e. become a hybrid or fuel-cell vehicle. An RE should fit nicely in the CyberTruck's bed. Or keep a spare battery pack in a car trunk. Not cheap either way.

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What would a road side assistance vehicle do?
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Right now there's not much you can do besides getting towed to an outlet. However, there was a discussion a ways upthread about what it would take to fit towtrucks out with quick-charge ability. Answer: not much - they've already got big diesel engines, just need an extra-beefy alternator and some charging circuitry.
What's a rough estimate of time for a 20-miles-more charge? (That's like adding a gallon of gas to a minivan or diesel to our Sprinter.) A fast recharge might suffice in urbanity but I can point to western US roads where the nearest service or outlet is 50 miles away. Don't run out of juice on blue highways.

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This capability will probably arise organically as the market begins demanding it.
That depends. Tow drivers may find it MUCH more profitable to tow than to recharge, especially out in the boonies.

The current ICE infrastructures in most nations weren't built quickly. Gasoline was a pharmacy item circa 1900. EV support has a bit of a head-start but how much of the world's vehicle routes will be wired for EVs anytime soon? When will even California have a stable power grid?
  #1108  
Old Yesterday, 01:49 AM
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What's a rough estimate of time for a 20-miles-more charge? (That's like adding a gallon of gas to a minivan or diesel to our Sprinter.)
Something like an F-350 could easily power a 250 kW generator with the right power take-off system. V3 Superchargers peak at 250 kW, and you really get that when the battery is close to empty. Adding 20 miles will take... 1.2 minutes at that rate. Uh, round that up to 5 minutes to get the battery warmed up and such.

Probably something more like 50 kW is more likely (and basically every EV can charge at that rate, so it wouldn't be limited to Teslas). Still under 10 minutes, though.
  #1109  
Old Yesterday, 07:34 AM
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Tow or carry a range extender, i.e. become a hybrid or fuel-cell vehicle. An RE should fit nicely in the CyberTruck's bed. Or keep a spare battery pack in a car trunk. Not cheap either way.



What's a rough estimate of time for a 20-miles-more charge? (That's like adding a gallon of gas to a minivan or diesel to our Sprinter.) A fast recharge might suffice in urbanity but I can point to western US roads where the nearest service or outlet is 50 miles away. Don't run out of juice on blue highways.


That depends. Tow drivers may find it MUCH more profitable to tow than to recharge, especially out in the boonies.

The current ICE infrastructures in most nations weren't built quickly. Gasoline was a pharmacy item circa 1900. EV support has a bit of a head-start but how much of the world's vehicle routes will be wired for EVs anytime soon? When will even California have a stable power grid?
I wonder if an EV could hook up to the 30 amp outlets you see at camping areas that have full hookups for RV's?

Anyhow I can see more and more places putting these in. Around here Walmarts and grocery stores have hookups.
  #1110  
Old Yesterday, 08:32 AM
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What you're responding to was a direct response to asking why single-car owners would not choose to own an EV and rent an ICE whenever they want to take a 'long' trip. And the quote of mine that you're responding to didn't say anything remotely like 'you're not allowed to be super-avoidant of oil changes', so there's no basis to claim that I'm deciding what disruptions YOU are allowed to be bothered. But if anyone is seriously wondering why single car owners might find 'spending 30 minutes on an oil change 3-4 times a year' that you can do when it fits your schedule and that they don't run out of, less of a bother than 'spending 30+ minutes renting a car, taking it home, loading your stuff in it, then unloading it to return it 2+times a month whenever you're making a not-short trip', and that might not be available if you're taking a trip on a popular weekend for travelling, you've drunk way too much of the EV Kool-Aid.
Yup, you're definitely not telling me what disruptions I'm allowed to be bothered by. But if I happen to be bothered by them, I've "drunk too much of the EV Kool-Aid". Silly me. Makes perfect sense.
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Old Yesterday, 09:04 AM
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I wonder if an EV could hook up to the 30 amp outlets you see at camping areas that have full hookups for RV's?

Anyhow I can see more and more places putting these in. Around here Walmarts and grocery stores have hookups.
Wait, I thought according to this thread, camping areas never have outlets?!

I believe common RV hookups are either NEMA 14-50 (240V / 50 amp) or TT-30 (120V / 30-amp).
In tesla's case, you can buy an adapter for the mobile connector for $35 that will support most common outlet types.

However, Tesla doesn't have a direct TT-30 adapter, so if TT-30 is all that's available you'd have to buy something from a third party. I don't think TT-30 will get better than ~9 mi/hr of charging (vs. 30 mi/hr on 14-50)
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Old Yesterday, 09:37 AM
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Question about electric vehicles.

If your regular car runs out of gas you can just add some more and your on your way.

If your electric vehicle runs out of charge is there an equivalent to say adding a couple of gallons to get you home or to the next recharge station?

What would a road side assistance vehicle do?
I have not and do not own an EV, but for more than fifteen years, drove a Honda Civic that used only compressed natural gas as a fuel. It was similar to an EV in many ways: It had a 200 mile range, I had a compressor at home, there were only a handful of public places I could refuel, and if I ran out, I would not be walking with a can. I simply made very, very sure not to run out of fuel; it was not difficult.

If I had run out I suppose AAA would tow me to the nearest station where, to be honest, a fillup was about the same time as refueling a gasoline-powered vehicle.
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Old Yesterday, 09:42 AM
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What you're responding to was a direct response to asking why single-car owners would not choose to own an EV and rent an ICE whenever they want to take a 'long' trip. And the quote of mine that you're responding to didn't say anything remotely like 'you're not allowed to be super-avoidant of oil changes', so there's no basis to claim that I'm deciding what disruptions YOU are allowed to be bothered. But if anyone is seriously wondering why single car owners might find 'spending 30 minutes on an oil change 3-4 times a year' that you can do when it fits your schedule and that they don't run out of, less of a bother than 'spending 30+ minutes renting a car, taking it home, loading your stuff in it, then unloading it to return it 2+times a month whenever you're making a not-short trip', and that might not be available if you're taking a trip on a popular weekend for travelling, you've drunk way too much of the EV Kool-Aid.
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Originally Posted by YamatoTwinkie View Post
Yup, you're definitely not telling me what disruptions I'm allowed to be bothered by. But if I happen to be bothered by them, I've "drunk too much of the EV Kool-Aid". Silly me. Makes perfect sense.
Gotta admit, this is why I haven't bought a lot of ICE cars that I otherwise like -- because they aren't large enough to stow the equipment I need for a once-yearly trip, and I'm not willing to spend the time THAT WEEKEND, WHEN I'M FRANTICALLY PREPARING for the trip dealing with the hassle of renting a car.
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Old Yesterday, 09:48 AM
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Then I have no idea why you were trying to make a point about "It's not very hard to charge an EV in rural America" when that wasn't a point under discussion in the exchange we were having. That you can charge a car if you're willing to spend a long time at an electric outlet is not something I've disputed, nor that developed rural areas generally have power somewhere.
Because you were whining about how hard it is to find a place to charge a car outside of their own home, and criticizing my examples of people actually doing so:

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Originally Posted by Pantastic View Post
...Then why would your friends ask to use the drier's 240v outlet? You posted this like it was common behavior for them, with a clear implication that this was something that's no big deal to do, but it's not even possible.

It's especially hilarious that people in this thread are berating me for pointing out that the situation isn't universal since 'it's happening', and it turns out that it's not even possible for the person using it as an example....
I was pointing out that even if I don't happen to have a spare 240V outlet lying around, it's pretty easy to find a place to charge if you are, for instance, spending the night with your boyfriend, or heck, even at the rural children's camp I stayed at last weekend.
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Old Yesterday, 10:50 AM
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I wonder if an EV could hook up to the 30 amp outlets you see at camping areas that have full hookups for RV's?
That is a pretty common way for people to do destination charging when either no better options are available, or they are in fact camping. Sleeping inside an EV with the rear seat folded down or something is just as good/bad as doing it in any other car, but with the added benefit that the heat or AC can be run all night.
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Old Yesterday, 12:57 PM
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Yup, you're definitely not telling me what disruptions I'm allowed to be bothered by. But if I happen to be bothered by them, I've "drunk too much of the EV Kool-Aid". Silly me. Makes perfect sense.
I didn't say what you're claiming I said here, and people can read the quoted material to be sure. I said that if you are "seriously wondering why single car owners might find..." renting a car every time they take a longer trip more of a hassle than oil changes a few times per year, then you've drunk too much of the EV Kool-Aid. It's not if you happen to have the unusual and extreme aversion to oil changes that some EV proponents do that you've 'drunk the kool-aid', it's if you don't understand/believe/accept that other people, who are not deeply engrossed in Ev advocacy, don't share that extreme and specific aversion to oil changes to the degree that they would rather spend much more time and energy on renting cars.
  #1117  
Old Yesterday, 01:21 PM
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Because you were whining about how hard it is to find a place to charge a car outside of their own home, and criticizing my examples of people actually doing so:

I was pointing out that even if I don't happen to have a spare 240V outlet lying around, it's pretty easy to find a place to charge if you are, for instance, spending the night with your boyfriend, or heck, even at the rural children's camp I stayed at last weekend.
*Sigh* And yet again, EV fanatics don't seem to get that not everyone lives their exact life. Your examples are simply not some universal fact. If your boyfriend lives in a place where charging is convenient for you, that doesn't mean that my partner (or a lot of other people's partners) do also. Mine in fact lives in an apartment with no directly attached parking, and I park in a dirt lot (with no outlets) or on the street (again with no outlets) while I'm there, and would likely get a ticket if I left 300' or more of cable from their apartment to my vehicle. The fact that your rural children's camp has an outlet right in the parking lot is great for you, but it's not the case at any of the half dozen places I went camping last year, or any but one of the dozen or so my brother did, or the one big weekend festival my other brother went to, or the other big festival that a dozen or so people I know went to.

Further, 'hard' is weasel words While it wouldn't be a labor of Hercules to find an outlet if I was staying at my parent's house, it also would not exactly be reasonable.
If I have to arrive during a cookout, get other people to move their vehicles so I can park close to the house, run 100' or more of cable across an area where people will be walking while carrying stuff, and then take all of that down again when I leave, that's not hardly the negligible '5 seconds of labor there's no way you'd ever forget or put off' that people claim charging is.

I think it's really silly that EV proponents keep painting this picture of a world where there are superchargers easy to find with never a wait along any highway you might travel, every shopping center and hotel has a 240v charger that is always in service with nary a wait, every apartment has assigned parking that a guest can use with charging available, and all places you might camp have an outlet within a five minute walk of your campsite that's never out of service or tied up by someone else. And it's especially silly when they whine that I'm 'discounting their experiences' when I point out that most of the country doesn't work that way.
  #1118  
Old Yesterday, 01:24 PM
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*Sigh* And yet again, EV fanatics don't seem to get that not everyone lives their exact life.
90 percent of this thread has been people telling you that you should never own an EV, and you arguing that your experience with cars and being unable to remember to plug electronics in at night is broadly applicable to life in America.
  #1119  
Old Yesterday, 02:02 PM
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I didn't say what you're claiming I said here, and people can read the quoted material to be sure. I said that if you are "seriously wondering why single car owners might find..." renting a car every time they take a longer trip more of a hassle than oil changes a few times per year, then you've drunk too much of the EV Kool-Aid. It's not if you happen to have the unusual and extreme aversion to oil changes that some EV proponents do that you've 'drunk the kool-aid', it's if you don't understand/believe/accept that other people, who are not deeply engrossed in Ev advocacy, don't share that extreme and specific aversion to oil changes to the degree that they would rather spend much more time and energy on renting cars.
You're presuming that such rentals would happen often. Or even yearly. For many people, they would shade towards "never".

Yes, I get that you have a daily commute of half a billion miles or whatever it was you didn't say. But there are many, many people who are 1) not you, and 2) simply do not have driving needs that would require major accommodation if they were using an EV.

Persons who have driving needs or otherwise are in situations that don't work well with EVs without major accommodations should not get EVs - at least not until the circumstances change to allow the EVs to be more suited to their needs. This statement does not apply to peoples who merely believe that only gas cars will work for them due to misapprehensions about the capabilities and use of EVs or misapprehensions about their own driving habits and requirements.
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Old Yesterday, 02:14 PM
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I didn't say what you're claiming I said here, and people can read the quoted material to be sure. I said that if you are "seriously wondering why single car owners might find..." renting a car every time they take a longer trip more of a hassle than oil changes a few times per year, then you've drunk too much of the EV Kool-Aid. It's not if you happen to have the unusual and extreme aversion to oil changes that some EV proponents do that you've 'drunk the kool-aid', it's if you don't understand/believe/accept that other people, who are not deeply engrossed in Ev advocacy, don't share that extreme and specific aversion to oil changes to the degree that they would rather spend much more time and energy on renting cars.
Lest we not forget, post #1089 was you taking offense to a simple statement that a hypothetical 5 minute walk was "not totally disrupting your weekend", and yet somehow you've declared that anyone that doesn't like wasting 30+ minutes 4 times a year for an oil change has a "unusual and extreme aversion." Got it.
  #1121  
Old Yesterday, 06:29 PM
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I'll just leave this here... https://bc.ctvnews.ca/harbour-air-te...lane-1.4723390
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  #1122  
Old Yesterday, 06:35 PM
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Yes yes, but what if the airline forgets to plug the plane in?
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Old Yesterday, 08:07 PM
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Yes yes, but what if the airline forgets to plug the plane in?
Great. So now I have to completely re-wire all my airplane hangars? What if I want to fly to Antarctica and then immediately leave for Norway?

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  #1124  
Old Yesterday, 08:16 PM
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Sure, an electric plane can go 100 miles, but what about a 200 mile trip? When I fly 500 miles to visit my friend, I need a plane that can go 1000 miles. And since there are no electric planes that can go 2000 miles, they're completely useless until they can go 5000 miles on a charge.
  #1125  
Old Yesterday, 09:05 PM
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That airplane canít handle the vacuum of space. Martians canít possibly afford it.
  #1126  
Old Yesterday, 11:29 PM
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We are considering getting a Prius or another EV the next time we purchase a car. They seem like a good commuter car.

Can anyone tell me, how good are the air conditioners and heaters?
  #1127  
Old Yesterday, 11:55 PM
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In terms of cooling and heating power, no different than any other modern car.

Two differences in operation, though. Iím pretty sure every EV will allow you to turn on the AC or heat via app before you enter the car. So if you can think ahead by five minutes - I know Iím going to get comments that this is literally impossible for so many people - you never again need to deal with a car interior thatís too hot or cold. Like today was chilly, so as I walked out of my office, I turned on the heat and seat warmer so when a got in the car a couple minutes later, it was nice and warm.

The one drawback is that using the heater decreases your range. The AC has much less effect. Cue the ďyou live your life around the carĒ conplaints.
  #1128  
Old Today, 12:40 AM
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That airplane canít handle the vacuum of space. Martians canít possibly afford it.
Electric planes cannot handle rough air *

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*when they are made out of tissue paper.

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  #1129  
Old Today, 06:44 AM
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This 'outlet within five minutes of the campsite' is nothing like the camping that I do privately (sometimes I'm 30 minutes or more from the car without even hiking!)
How does one get to a campsite 30 mins from their car w/o hiking; do you take a tram?


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Originally Posted by Pantastic View Post
If I have to arrive during a cookout, get other people to move their vehicles so I can park close to the house, run 100' or more of cable across an area where people will be walking while carrying stuff, and then take all of that down again when I leave, that's not hardly the negligible '5 seconds of labor there's no way you'd ever forget or put off' that people claim charging is.
Pretty much every party I've been to people carry stuff in when they arrive & carry stuff out when they leave. Of course if they're leaving & yours is the last car in the driveway, you'd need to unplug & pull out in order for them to pull out & drive away.


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Originally Posted by YamatoTwinkie View Post
Lest we not forget, post #1089 was you taking offense to a simple statement that a hypothetical 5 minute walk was "not totally disrupting your weekend", and yet somehow you've declared that anyone that doesn't like wasting 30+ minutes 4 times a year for an oil change has a "unusual and extreme aversion." Got it.
Oil change recommendations haven't been at 3000 miles for some time. Most new cars are 5000 at a minimum & many are between 7500 & 10,000 miles; therefore, someone needing 4 oil changes a year is driving between 20,000 & 40,000 miles. An EV probably won't work for those people given how far above the standard deviation of annual miles they drive means they probably have an almost 200 mile commute every day.
  #1130  
Old Today, 12:54 PM
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How does one get to a campsite 30 mins from their car w/o hiking; do you take a tram?
IIRC at Oswald West State Park in Oregon, parking uphill from the campsites is linked by paved switchback trails, and large wheelbarrows are provided to schlep gear from cars down to tent site. I'm unsure if 1/2 hour pushing a wheelbarrow to a beachfront counts as hiking.
  #1131  
Old Today, 01:08 PM
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We are considering getting a Prius or another EV the next time we purchase a car. They seem like a good commuter car.
Prius? A hybrid? Neither fully electric nor fully ICE? Haven't you been reading this thread, Urban? You must commit to one or the other, and stay committed to one or the other for the rest of your life!


Seriously, my former boss love-love-loved her Prius. As a passenger, I thought it ranked somewhere between the Yaris and the Corolla.
  #1132  
Old Today, 03:08 PM
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You're presuming that such rentals would happen often. Or even yearly. For many people, they would shade towards "never".
I'm 'presuming' it because for all of the people that I know, they happen at least a few times per month. And none of the statistics that EV proponents have come up with address the issue, or offer any support the idea that most people in the US who drive a car only take trips longer than the 70 miles that was under discussion (or the 200 miles that really runs into charging issues) once per year or less. I'm sure there are "many" people who don't take longer trips by car, but I certainly don't agree with the claim that they're such a large majority of people that it's fair to completely ignore occasional trips and focus only on daily commute when evaluating whether an EV works.

Quote:
Yes, I get that you have a daily commute of half a billion miles or whatever it was you didn't say. But there are many, many people who are 1) not you, and 2) simply do not have driving needs that would require major accommodation if they were using an EV.
This is typical of EV fanatics in this thread; they want to pretend that any situation that isn't ideal for EVs is some weird edge case like "a daily commute of half a billion miles". The fact that NONE of my examples have actually used a long daily commute (one of them used a zero length commute, one treated the commute as negligible for the trip, and the first used a 50-mile round trip commute which is supposedly in the ideal range for EVs) but you want to write as though I'm talking about a long daily commute is really telling. You simply don't want to look at realistic vehicle use scenarios.

Quote:
Persons who have driving needs or otherwise are in situations that don't work well with EVs without major accommodations should not get EVs
And they're a lot more common than EV proponents on this thread want to pretend.
  #1133  
Old Today, 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Ravenman View Post
90 percent of this thread has been people telling you that you should never own an EV, and you arguing that your experience with cars and being unable to remember to plug electronics in at night is broadly applicable to life in America.
I'm aware that EV fanatics on this thread have been making baseless and untrue claims, but thanks for the reminder.
  #1134  
Old Today, 03:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Spiderman View Post
How does one get to a campsite 30 mins from their car w/o hiking; do you take a tram?
A canoe, in the most typical one for me. There's also a number of places where you get to a campsite by 4-wheeler or horse. Did you really not think this one through before asking?

Quote:
Oil change recommendations haven't been at 3000 miles for some time. Most new cars are 5000 at a minimum & many are between 7500 & 10,000 miles; therefore, someone needing 4 oil changes a year is driving between 20,000 & 40,000 miles. An EV probably won't work for those people given how far above the standard deviation of annual miles they drive means they probably have an almost 200 mile commute every day.
It's hilarious how far EV proponents twist around in their arguments. If I assume people are mostly following a '3 month' oil change schedule which is the most oil changes most people will do in normal driving conditions, then it must mean that I'm only talking about people who drive 20,000-40,000 miles per year, and that therefore they're all edge case drivers. But I just picked the highest reasonable number of oil changes to avoid being accused of lowballing the number of oil changes by the extremely oil change avoidant people in the thread and to give them the best benefit of the doubt. Picking the 'worst reasonable case' for the side you favor is the reasonable thing to do when examining a situation, and insisting that everyone who sticks to the old '3 month oil change' recommendation must be driving 20k-40k miles per year and therefore is an edge case is not.
  #1135  
Old Today, 03:27 PM
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Originally Posted by YamatoTwinkie View Post
Lest we not forget, post #1089 was you taking offense to a simple statement that a hypothetical 5 minute walk was "not totally disrupting your weekend", and yet somehow you've declared that anyone that doesn't like wasting 30+ minutes 4 times a year for an oil change has a "unusual and extreme aversion." Got it.
Again, you're not actually responding to things that I wrote, but to strawmen that you invented. My statement that someone who finds spending 30 minutes 4 times a year for oil changes more bother than 30 minutes multiple times per month to rent a car has an 'unusual and extreme aversion' to oil changes, as the amount of time they will spend on the rental is six or more times what they will spend on oil changes. And there was not a 'hypothetical five minute walk'; there was a scenario with ten minutes of walking, plus several minutes of car and cable switching that would need to be coordinated with another person and timed in the middle of a weekend of what would be outdoor activities.
  #1136  
Old Today, 03:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Urbanredneck View Post
We are considering getting a Prius or another EV the next time we purchase a car. They seem like a good commuter car.

Can anyone tell me, how good are the air conditioners and heaters?
My wife drives a Prius Prime. It's a plug-in hybrid. It's really quite a nice car and goes about 22 miles as a pure EV. After that, it gets almost 50 mph. It drives nice, and has all the latest tech.
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