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  #5651  
Old 02-09-2019, 11:27 AM
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Snowboarder Bo Snowboarder Bo is offline
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Originally Posted by Gyrate View Post
"I refuse to testify unless you agree not to make me testify" is a...unique...argument. I assume he's also said that he will only drive the speed limit if the police agree not to give him a speeding ticket.

Where exactly did Mr Law-Talking-Guy get his law degree? From a Happy Meal?
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Originally Posted by DesertDog View Post
Trump University.
ISTR that he's licensed only in the state of West Virginia, FWIW.
  #5652  
Old 02-12-2019, 10:34 AM
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It says here, that Mueller's investigation is a profit-making venture! (Although of course not intended as such.) The forfeitures by the criminal Manafort exceed the cost of the investigation. (Where does such money go? Ignoring private claimants to some of the Manafort money, does the government's net revenue from such forfeitures go to fund DoJ investigations? Or just into a U.S. Treasury general fund?)
  #5653  
Old 02-12-2019, 11:20 AM
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It says here, that Mueller's investigation is a profit-making venture! (Although of course not intended as such.) The forfeitures by the criminal Manafort exceed the cost of the investigation. (Where does such money go? Ignoring private claimants to some of the Manafort money, does the government's net revenue from such forfeitures go to fund DoJ investigations? Or just into a U.S. Treasury general fund?)
Maybe it should go towards peoples' tax refunds.
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  #5654  
Old 02-12-2019, 04:46 PM
Bijou Drains Bijou Drains is offline
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they are looking into lifting the sanctions on Russia as a big part of the deal with Russia

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/10/u...a-inquiry.html
  #5655  
Old 02-12-2019, 05:00 PM
glowacks glowacks is offline
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Originally Posted by septimus View Post
It says here, that Mueller's investigation is a profit-making venture! (Although of course not intended as such.) The forfeitures by the criminal Manafort exceed the cost of the investigation. (Where does such money go? Ignoring private claimants to some of the Manafort money, does the government's net revenue from such forfeitures go to fund DoJ investigations? Or just into a U.S. Treasury general fund?)
It just goes into the Treasury, just like everything else. From what I understand, only Congress can authorize the spending of money, and any revenue generated by government operations that Congress has not authorized the department to reinvest in its own operations would simply get thrown on the pile. I have no idea if Congress has authorized anyone to use their own funds generated by their operations to spend money beyond their original appropriation, but I assume it's possible for the same reason that Congress often explicitly lets the Executive branch write regulations to fill in the blanks of some laws that Congress doesn't want to deal with the details of.
  #5656  
Old 02-12-2019, 05:10 PM
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Originally Posted by glowacks View Post
It just goes into the Treasury, just like everything else. From what I understand, only Congress can authorize the spending of money, and any revenue generated by government operations that Congress has not authorized the department to reinvest in its own operations would simply get thrown on the pile. I have no idea if Congress has authorized anyone to use their own funds generated by their operations to spend money beyond their original appropriation, but I assume it's possible for the same reason that Congress often explicitly lets the Executive branch write regulations to fill in the blanks of some laws that Congress doesn't want to deal with the details of.
(Emphasis added.) I think the correct idiom for this case is "thrown into the pit".
  #5657  
Old 02-20-2019, 01:55 PM
Bijou Drains Bijou Drains is offline
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Looks like the report will be done as early as next week based on CNN

https://www.cnn.com/2019/02/20/polit...ent/index.html

Last edited by Bijou Drains; 02-20-2019 at 01:55 PM.
  #5658  
Old 02-20-2019, 02:02 PM
Vinyl Turnip Vinyl Turnip is offline
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But as late as... indefinitely.
  #5659  
Old 02-20-2019, 02:05 PM
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Like I said before, when Mueller himself says the report is almost done, I'll believe him. Anyone else is just blowing hot air.
  #5660  
Old 02-20-2019, 02:54 PM
ElvisL1ves ElvisL1ves is offline
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Rosenstein was going to resign in mid-February, presumably when Mueller no longer needed protection from firing. Now it'll be mid-March, although Barr is now in place as AG and it shouldn't matter when Rosenstein leaves anymore. So maybe Barr isn't going to do it either? Maybe it's just too late to save Individual-1 anyway?
  #5661  
Old 02-20-2019, 04:02 PM
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I'm reasonably willing to believe that some form of Russian-interference report might be imminent. But I'll hold by the point that the total investigation certainly ain't over while Elliott Broidy walks the Earth a free man.

Now, granted, there is a case where the core issues:

1) Did Trump work with Russia, in return for something?
2) Does Russia have kompromat on Trump that impelled him to operate in their favor?

Where Mueller might have hit a dead end. Fundamentally, the secrets are too closely guarded and/or hard to prove (in this eventuality). And Mueller may have decided that other than prosecuting some people for lying to him on the way, he's basically gone as far as he can, so long as Manafort isn't willing to flip. And anything outside of the two above questions are, at the end of the day, beyond his mandate.

In this case, we might expect to see Mueller close the book and go home.

But, at the same time, we would expect to see the SDNY, the remainder of the FBI, the House investigative committees, etc. continue to follow up on various cases of bank fraud, tax fraud, election finance crimes, selling nuclear weapons to Saudi Arabia, etc. that were perhaps initially discovered and felt out by Mueller, and then spun out to be further investigated by dedicated teams.

The Mueller investigation ending doesn't, per se, have to mean the end of the Mueller investigation. It could just indicate that the total scope of crimes and criminal activity was so immense as to dwarf the one man and his team. And, just by happenstance, the criminal concern that triggered it all couldn't be traced to hard evidence.

I think that if one thing is certain, despite everything else, it's that Trump is already criminally accused under sealed indictment. Cohen went into court and made a statement that his former boss was an active criminal. That almost certainly lead directly to a sealed indictment being issued. Trump goes to jail as soon as he's no longer President, any way you cut it. It's purely a question of what all else gets added on and who else gets pulled down along the way.

Last edited by Sage Rat; 02-20-2019 at 04:02 PM.
  #5662  
Old 02-21-2019, 05:34 AM
Grim Render Grim Render is offline
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I think that if one thing is certain, despite everything else, it's that Trump is already criminally accused under sealed indictment. Cohen went into court and made a statement that his former boss was an active criminal. That almost certainly lead directly to a sealed indictment being issued. Trump goes to jail as soon as he's no longer President, any way you cut it. It's purely a question of what all else gets added on and who else gets pulled down along the way.
If this turns out to be so, I think there is a realistic chance of Trump defecting. And won't that put the cat among the pigeons.
  #5663  
Old 02-21-2019, 08:59 PM
TimeWinder TimeWinder is offline
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Trump goes to jail as soon as he's no longer President, any way you cut it.
I'll take that bet. We are never, ever going to jail a sitting or former President. Basically every Presidency afterward would end in a prison term if we did. Note that the Right still manages to convince themselves that "both sides do it" and that Obama/Hillary are way worse than Trump. All of this "Trump is going to jail" stuff is just fantasy. The best we can actually hope for is to remove him and his party from where they can continue to do damage.

Last edited by TimeWinder; 02-21-2019 at 09:00 PM.
  #5664  
Old Yesterday, 07:41 AM
DesertDog DesertDog is offline
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Basically every Presidency afterward would end in a prison term if we did.
And if they broke the law this is bad because...

Or is "no man is above the law" just an American fantasy?
  #5665  
Old Yesterday, 09:03 AM
Railer13 Railer13 is offline
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Basically every Presidency afterward would end in a prison term if we did.
And you base this prediction on what, exactly? That most previous Presidents have committed an offense that is punishable by incarceration while in office? Please give some specific examples.
  #5666  
Old Yesterday, 11:59 AM
McDeath_the_Mad McDeath_the_Mad is offline
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Originally Posted by Railer13 View Post
And you base this prediction on what, exactly? That most previous Presidents have committed an offense that is punishable by incarceration while in office? Please give some specific examples.
Not that I agree, but Bush's manufactured war in Iraq should be possible grounds for incarceration!

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  #5667  
Old Yesterday, 12:24 PM
k9bfriender k9bfriender is offline
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Originally Posted by TimeWinder View Post
I'll take that bet. We are never, ever going to jail a sitting or former President. Basically every Presidency afterward would end in a prison term if we did. Note that the Right still manages to convince themselves that "both sides do it" and that Obama/Hillary are way worse than Trump. All of this "Trump is going to jail" stuff is just fantasy. The best we can actually hope for is to remove him and his party from where they can continue to do damage.
Are you saying that being president should make you immune to the consequences of breaking the law?

I can kinda see he idea of not arresting someone who is currently in office. Personally, I think that they shouldn't be above the law, but I can see how that act could have negative political consequences.

But after they are out? Why not? If Obama breaks a law, he should be held accountable for it.

Your contention that every presidency would end in a prison term is predicated upon the flawed premise that all presidents are criminals.

Keep in mind, that what is being investigated about trump is not what he did in office, but what he did before he was in office, and while campaigning for that office.
  #5668  
Old Yesterday, 04:26 PM
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Sage Rat Sage Rat is offline
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Originally Posted by TimeWinder View Post
I'll take that bet. We are never, ever going to jail a sitting or former President. Basically every Presidency afterward would end in a prison term if we did. Note that the Right still manages to convince themselves that "both sides do it" and that Obama/Hillary are way worse than Trump. All of this "Trump is going to jail" stuff is just fantasy. The best we can actually hope for is to remove him and his party from where they can continue to do damage.
Works for Italy.
  #5669  
Old Yesterday, 08:24 PM
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Not too surprised by this (Mueller report not to be issued when previously reported):

https://thehill.com/homenews/adminis...dept-next-week

Granted, this could just mean that it will be another week or two. But I wouldn't be surprised if the "imminent release" fades away for a while.

The investigation has had a fair while, Rosenstein does seem to be on the way out, Manafort ain't talking, and there's a new AG in town, so there is some reason to think that it's time for the release for at least some sort of major report - even if not the end report.

Though, on the other hand, I expect the report to follow a rush of arrests and for Trump to plan to be out of the country at the same time as the report is actually planned for release. (Granted, it looks like he is going to North Korea soon - but that doesn't seem like the sort of place that even Trump would choose to escape to.) And we still have the pending litigation with the foreign state-owned business, and we have reason to believe that there are some investigations into Israel and Saudi Arabia that are trailing behind the Russia investigation but also both being investigated by Mueller.

I guess that we will see.

Personally, I'm more interested in the indictments than the reports. I think Mueller ain't gotta fool around with reports like Ken Starr. The actors were stupid enough to get their hands dirty, in the case of Trump.
  #5670  
Old Yesterday, 08:53 PM
Tatterdemalion Tatterdemalion is offline
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Originally Posted by Sage Rat View Post
Works for Italy.
And Illinois.
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