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  #901  
Old 08-22-2019, 07:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Czarcasm View Post
This Just In-Trump doesn't think the children in his care are suffering enough, so he plans on eliminating the Flores settlement(that small bit of protection the children currently have).



Shit.
Meanwhile, Illinois passes a law making it illegal for a landlord to evict a tennant due to their lack of citizenship.
https://www.nbcchicago.com/blogs/war...557794271.html
  #902  
Old 08-23-2019, 10:19 AM
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It just doesn't stop: The Prez has thought up a new way to lessen the population of his concentration camps-Let them die off from the flu.
Quote:
The U.S. government will not give flu vaccines to migrant families being held in detention centers near the U.S.-Mexico border. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) announced the decision Tuesday, weeks before the flu season begins.
Is there any word about whether detainees in other camps get the vaccine?
  #903  
Old 09-02-2019, 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Czarcasm View Post
It just doesn't stop: The Prez has thought up a new way to lessen the population of his concentration camps-Let them die off from the flu.

Is there any word about whether detainees in other camps get the vaccine?
I will have to say that Trump is not Hitler, but he is a very dedicated Nazi cosplayer.

And after looking at the neo concentration camps, there was a difference even with many of the non death camps of WWII: deliberate neglect corresponded with the German policy to cause the deaths of large numbers of Jews and POWs through over-crowded, squalid living conditions and a lack of reasonable medical care.

Of course I did say that there was a difference...

..was.

Nasty Nazi cosplayer that Trump is, he can not set the current camps more harsher (Why do I feel though that he will still try?) so letting nature "dispose" of the immigrants and refugees is a convenient way to try to avoid responsibility. But, as me and other historians conclude, the holocaust denier's excuse that 'disease in the camps = that the Nazis were blameless' is poppy cock. Even then the fascists knew how to set things up so as to make specific (supposedly) non death camps to be as deadly as possible. While today this will not be as bad as Typhus, it is very naive for the administration to avoid responsibility for the unnecessary danger and likely deaths that can follow.
  #904  
Old 09-02-2019, 01:17 PM
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I fear that what will be remembered is not what this administration did, but what we as a nation didn't do.
  #905  
Old 09-02-2019, 04:55 PM
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I was heartened to see protesters this weekend, organized under a banner of CCCC: Coalition to Close the Concentration Camps.
  #906  
Old 09-03-2019, 08:15 AM
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I fear that what will be remembered is not what this administration did, but what we as a nation didn't do.
Yes, sadly.

Relevant meme: "Did you ever wonder what you would have done during slavery, the Holocaust, or the civil rights movement? You're doing it now."
  #907  
Old 09-10-2019, 11:53 AM
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While today this will not be as bad as Typhus, it is very naive for the administration to avoid responsibility for the unnecessary danger and likely deaths that can follow.
[June]Then he ran into my knife. He ran into my knife ten times.[/June]
  #908  
Old 11-12-2019, 11:04 AM
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US held record number of migrant kids in custody in 2019
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...This month new government data shows the little girl [3-yr old separated from father] is one of an unprecedented 69,550 migrant children held in U.S. government custody over the past year, enough infants, toddlers, kids and teens to overflow the typical NFL stadium. That's more kids detained away from their parents than any other country, according to United Nations researchers. And it's happening even though the U.S. government has acknowledged that being held in detention can be traumatic for children, putting them at risk of long-term physical and emotional damage.

Some of these migrant children who were in government custody this year have already been deported. Some have reunited with family in the U.S., where they're trying to go to school and piece back together their lives. About 4,000 are still in government custody, some in large, impersonal shelters. And more arrive every week.
...
(My bold) Yes, but they're not white children, so it doesn't count.
Quote:
...The nearly 70,000 migrant children who were held in government custody this year — up 42 percent in fiscal year 2019 from 2018 — spent more time in shelters and away from their families than in prior years. The Trump administration's series of strict immigration policies has increased the time children spend in detention, despite the government's own acknowledgment that it does them harm.

In 2013, Australia detained 2,000 children during a surge of maritime arrivals. In Canada, immigrant children are separated from their parents only as a last resort; 155 were detained in 2018. In the United Kingdom, 42 migrant children were put in shelters in 2017, according to officials in those countries.
(My emphasis) No wonder those countries are such losers! They just can't keep up with us, amirite?
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  #909  
Old 11-12-2019, 12:24 PM
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Australia, Canada, and the UK don't have anywhere near the number of immigrants generally or immigrant children specifically that the US does. Comparing raw numbers between us and them is stupid and useless at best, and quite deceptive / misleading.
  #910  
Old 11-12-2019, 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by HurricaneDitka View Post
Australia, Canada, and the UK don't have anywhere near the number of immigrants generally or immigrant children specifically that the US does. Comparing raw numbers between us and them is stupid and useless at best, and quite deceptive / misleading.
Do the Canadians, Australians, and Brits cage their immigrant children or are they allowed to free range?

Last edited by kayaker; 11-12-2019 at 12:31 PM.
  #911  
Old 11-12-2019, 12:36 PM
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"detained" suggests some sort of confinement to me.
  #912  
Old 11-12-2019, 01:42 PM
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Do the Canadians, Australians, and Brits cage their immigrant children or are they allowed to free range?
The Australian immigrant children have it pretty bad too. But just because there is another nation that is as bad as us doesn't exonerate us.

Last edited by Buck Godot; 11-12-2019 at 01:45 PM.
  #913  
Old 11-12-2019, 03:50 PM
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Originally Posted by HurricaneDitka View Post
"detained" suggests some sort of confinement to me.
In the post-WWII and UN, we have come to expect that detentions have some level of humanity. The conditions of detention, which have been confirmed, are anything but.
  #914  
Old 11-12-2019, 04:05 PM
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Originally Posted by ThelmaLou View Post
US held record number of migrant kids in custody in 2019(My bold) Yes, but they're not white children, so it doesn't count. (My emphasis) No wonder those countries are such losers! They just can't keep up with us, amirite?
According to that article, a new concentration camp was built just down the road from Mar-a-lago. Seems a strange place to put it.
  #915  
Old 11-20-2019, 12:15 PM
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In the post-WWII and UN, we have come to expect that detentions have some level of humanity. The conditions of detention, which have been confirmed, are anything but.
Fake news, remember? He doesn't believe it, because why should he? Why should he believe anything that stands in the way of what he thinks his self-interest is?

Think through the logic here. If he admitted that the conditions were horrific, he'd have to admit that his tribe is doing something horrific. He may need to admit his own personal culpability at enabling it. He may feel guilt, or shame, or drive to do something to improve their lives.

But if he just says "fake news" and pretends it didn't happen... None of that is necessary, and he gets the added benefit of "triggering the libs" when decent people rightfully get pissed at him. The card says Moops. In that kind of headspace, you'll say anything you need to to win the argument, any heinous or nonsensical thing. (Recall statements about paper towel tubes, Timothy McVeigh, and Benghazi troop readiness, just to name three recent prominent examples from different posters, all showing clear signs of postmodern conservative thinking.)

This kind of postmodern conservatism can't reasonably be argued with. The facts don't matter. The worldview is fluid. If the goal here is "fighting ignorance", then the most prudent thing to do is to get rid of anyone showing signs of it, because they will never, ever, ever change their views through argumentation, and most of the time will actively pollute the discourse with blatantly insane nonsense. It's also kinda why I don't spend much time here any more. It's not fun to get this angry all the time.
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  #916  
Old 11-20-2019, 12:20 PM
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... This kind of postmodern conservatism can't reasonably be argued with. The facts don't matter. The worldview is fluid. If the goal here is "fighting ignorance", then the most prudent thing to do is to get rid of anyone showing signs of it...
It's kind of hard to maintain a discussion board when you ban the people that disagree with you.
  #917  
Old 11-20-2019, 04:44 PM
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Yes, quite obviously. It would also fit "extermination camp" if these camps started exterminating them. They're being separated and "concentrated" in clearly substandard (from a human rights perspective) facilities.
And why isn't detention center a better word than the loaded term concentration camp?

Quote:
If there weren't already a much more accurate word (prison), then yes.

There's a distinction, but it's not about what to call the camps. They're not prisons -- these aren't convicted criminals who received due process. There's no better descriptor for them than concentration camps.
What about detention center?
  #918  
Old 11-20-2019, 04:47 PM
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My gut feeling is that, while it won’t make much difference among people who are going to vote anyway, it will probably encourage people who otherwise wouldn’t have voted to vote Democrat.
Use of the term concentration camp will not make much of a difference. A lot of people are rolling their eyes at this one. Separating children from their parents will make a difference.
  #919  
Old 11-20-2019, 04:48 PM
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So what? It's not illegal to go to the border, or request asylum. It's illegal to attempt to cross under certain circumstances, but illegal acts need to be proved in a court of law after due process, not assumed by the government because of where someone was found.
What do you do with someone that you suspect of an illegal act before you give them their day in court? Do you detain them perhaps?
  #920  
Old 11-20-2019, 04:52 PM
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I'm glad to hear you don't support Trump.

They're still concentration camps. A lot of "detention" or "refugee" camps qualify as such. A lot of people in a small space with inadequate facilities and limited options (if any) for going elsewhere.

The "detainees" are locked up. So far as I know, NONE of them are free to leave until the people with the keys say they can go.
They can leave. They just have to admit they were trying to admit they were trying to enter the country illegally. This results in deportation and effectively a lifetime ban from entering the USA.
  #921  
Old 11-20-2019, 05:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Damuri Ajashi View Post
What do you do with someone that you suspect of an illegal act before you give them their day in court? Do you detain them perhaps?
Depends on the act. I don't think we should be locking up speeders until they pay their parking tickets, and illegal border crossings are much, much less serious than driving too fast.
  #922  
Old 11-20-2019, 05:33 PM
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And why isn't detention center a better word than the loaded term concentration camp?

What about detention center?
"Detention center" doesn't fit the purposefully inhumane conditions of the facilities in question.
  #923  
Old 11-23-2019, 11:50 AM
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In squalid Mexico tent city, asylum seekers are growing so desperate they're sending their children over the border alone
Quote:
MATAMOROS, Mexico — In the middle of the largest refugee camp on the U.S. border — close enough to Texas that migrants can see an American flag hovering across the Rio Grande — Marili’s children had fallen ill.

Josue was 5. Madeline was 3. The small family was huddled together in a nylon camping tent with two blankets last week when the temperature sank to 37 degrees. The children started coughing, Marili said. Then their fingers and toes turned bright red. The camp’s doctor had begun to see cases of frostbite.

...

In recent weeks, dozens of parents have watched as their children, sleeping outside in the cold, have become sick or despondent. Many decided to get them help the only way they knew how — sending them across the border alone. As Josue and Madeline grew sicker, it was Marili’s turn to make a decision.

These cases illustrate the human toll of the Trump administration’s policy and suggest the United States, Mexico and the United Nations were unprepared to handle many of the unforeseen consequences.

Marili, fleeing gang violence in Honduras, knew that unaccompanied children were admitted into the United States without enduring the MPP bureaucracy and the months-long wait. The 29-year-old mother — who, like others here, asked not to be identified by her last name, for fear it could affect her asylum case — believed that returning home would be suicide. So she bundled up her children in all of their donated winter clothes and scrawled a letter to U.S. immigration officials on a torn piece of paper.

“My children are very sick and exposed to many risks in Mexico,” she wrote. “I don’t have any other way to get them to safety.”

She pressed the letter into Josue’s hand, she said, and pointed the children to three U.S. Customs and Border Protection agents in the middle of the Gateway International Bridge, the span across the Rio Grande that connects Matamoros to Brownsville, Tex.

“Josue told me, ‘Please don’t send us,’ ” Marili said, crying at the memory. “But as a mother, I knew it was the best decision for them.”
....
My emphasis.

A 5-year old and a 3-year old.

Jesus wept.

But no Republicans.
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  #924  
Old 11-26-2019, 10:02 AM
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I'm aware of some of the reports of conditions in the "camps". I don't generally find those sources terribly credible. I think they, like you, have an agenda they're propagandizing for and pushing, and they'll pick a couple of anecdotes and try to pretend / imply that those exceptions represent conditions generally.
Yeah, inspectors general are a bunch of partisan hacks. Deep state!

Do you ever stop to consider that facts that are inconvenient for your political views, still remain facts?
  #925  
Old 11-26-2019, 10:16 AM
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Yeah, inspectors general are a bunch of partisan hacks. Deep state!

Do you ever stop to consider that facts that are inconvenient for your political views, still remain facts?
DHS? They are a bunch of liars. Except when they say that poor brown kids are going to destroy the American way of life. That's when they are 100% telling the truth!
  #926  
Old 11-26-2019, 11:11 AM
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Use of the term concentration camp will not make much of a difference.
Your continued effort to use the euphemism "detention center" shows us that it does make a difference.
  #927  
Old 11-26-2019, 11:16 AM
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Yeah, inspectors general are a bunch of partisan hacks. Deep state!

Do you ever stop to consider that facts that are inconvenient for your political views, still remain facts?
Like, that post was never actually good, but boy has it aged poorly.
  #928  
Old 11-26-2019, 01:18 PM
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Yeah, inspectors general are a bunch of partisan hacks. Deep state!

Do you ever stop to consider that facts that are inconvenient for your political views, still remain facts?
He grades his arguments on their comfort level, not their accuracy. He's stated several times that he's "comfortable" with his arguments as if that makes them true.
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