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  #4901  
Old 11-16-2019, 07:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Sherrerd View Post
Anything is possible with Trump:

1) He's actually ailing.

2) His enablers have learned that something major is about to be revealed, and they recommend that he have a 'graceful exit' planned ('my doctors tell me my only chance is complete bed rest, therefore I am resigning').

3) He's not ailing and not in need of a quick exit excuse---but he's extremely worried about the way the evidence is piling up in the House inquiry, and about the public opinion polls reflecting declining favorability numbers. So what he needs is a Big Beautiful Distraction. And what could be better than something that will win him major sympathy:



I'd bet on 3, but who knows....
4) He’s misplaced all his adderall and Sudafed.

5) He might hear REALLY bad news about overcooked steak and ketchup consumption.
  #4902  
Old 11-16-2019, 07:15 PM
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I don’t watch videos, I read print media. It’s way more objective
I think you should make an exception here. This is the video of what actually happened. Nothing can be more objective in this case:
https://mobile.twitter.com/TrumpWarR...46982988455938
Why is this relevant? The first clip in the video is from her prepared opening statement. Thus it is less likely to be an innocent mistake. To me it suggests that wherever she thinks she can get away with it, she will bend the truth, or perhaps lie, to paint Trump in a bad light.

Others have pointed out that "people are not computers" to address the other gateway pundit claim that she lied about an email. I agree!!!

And so would Martha Stewart, Roger Stone, and Michael Flynn. Going into details on these would be tangential, except: I predict future witnesses are going to say something like: "the transcript of the call is deceptive, here's what I heard them say". Flynn's case is relevant here. His lawyer claims to have evidence that the transcripts of his interview were edited to get him in trouble:
https://news.yahoo.com/flynn-lawyer-...204037603.html
Quote:
Former national-security adviser Michael Flynn’s lawyer claims in a new bombshell court filing that the FBI tampered with notes from his 2017 interview, during which Flynn pleaded guilty to lying.
In a 37-page motion, attorney Sidney Powell called on the court to “dismiss the entire prosecution for outrageous government misconduct” over allegations that FBI agents manipulated a form summarizing Flynn’s statements to investigators.
...
"Those changes added an unequivocal statement that ‘Flynn stated he did not’ — in response to whether Mr. Flynn had asked Kislyak to vote in a certain manner or slow down the UN vote [on sanctions],” Powell wrote. “This is a deceptive manipulation because, as the notes of the agents show, Mr. Flynn was not even sure he had spoken to Russia/Kislyak on the issue. He had talked to dozens of countries." “That question and answer does not appear in the notes, yet it was made into a criminal offense,” Powell wrote in the motion. “The draft also shows that the agents moved a sentence to make it seem to be an answer to a question it was not.”
Flynn is "not a computer", and so could be excused for being wrong about one of his past conversations. But the above claim says that he never even said the problem statement: his lawyer says she has evidence that it was transcript manipulation. So we have a precedent of those out to get Trump and his associates manipulating transcripts to get them in trouble. I think this is a good answer to "why did Trump put the transcript of the call flagged by the whistleblower in an extra secure database?", and I think may be used as a defense when witnesses present alternate versions of what was said in the call in future hearings.

Last edited by Jim Peebles; 11-16-2019 at 07:17 PM. Reason: space aliens
  #4903  
Old 11-16-2019, 07:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Locrian View Post
4) He’s misplaced all his adderall and Sudafed.
Time for a trip to the UK! (https://crooksandliars.com/2019/10/w...e-donald-trump)



Quote:
Originally Posted by Locrian View Post
5) He might hear REALLY bad news about overcooked steak and ketchup consumption.
Well, no doubt he's been studiously ignoring that information for years. Possibly someone at Walter Reed might be so reckless as to try to force him to hear it, but fear not: Donald J. Trump is able to screen out all information that contradicts his own wishes.

Last edited by Sherrerd; 11-16-2019 at 07:18 PM. Reason: formatting fail!
  #4904  
Old 11-16-2019, 07:19 PM
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People on Twitter are speculating that he's setting up an excuse to resign "for medical reasons".

We can only hope.
I wish people would stop suggesting that Trump will resign. There is zero chance of that. Even of McConnell tells him they are 100% voting to remove him he will sit there until that day and take down as many of them with him as he can. He is not giving up the one and only thing keeping him out of jail.
  #4905  
Old 11-16-2019, 07:35 PM
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She served at the pleasure of the President and she can be removed and replaced at any time. OK. So why didn't Trump announce he was going in another direction and was replacing her with Sondland? No, he has to disparage her, say she was "bad" and "bad news". This career diplomat who by all accounts did her job and did it well, is fired without notice and without any reason given and then her reputation is besmirched by Trump. Imagine if you heard the CEO and other top officers at your company telling others you were bad and bad news and you were fired without notice or reason, when by all accounts everyone thought you were doing your job well. Trump just can't keep his mouth shut and now it's biting him on the ass.
  #4906  
Old 11-16-2019, 07:57 PM
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I wish people would stop suggesting that Trump will resign. There is zero chance of that. Even of McConnell tells him they are 100% voting to remove him he will sit there until that day and take down as many of them with him as he can. He is not giving up the one and only thing keeping him out of jail.
If there were some way to spin his resignation as "winning," then he might do it. He definitely won't resign because of health, because anyone who is less than 100% perfectly healthy is a LOSER. But if he could be convinced that resigning makes him a WINNER because it means he did it HIS WAY (cue Sinatra song) and no one else told him what to do. Obama would NEVER have resigned because he was a LOSER and only a WINNER walks away from the table! A WINNER isn't accountable to anyone else. He is the captain of his own ship and doesn't take orders from LOSERS. Blahblahblah. Harping on that might get his attention.

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Originally Posted by rock party View Post
She served at the pleasure of the President and she can be removed and replaced at any time. OK. So why didn't Trump announce he was going in another direction and was replacing her with Sondland? No, he has to disparage her, say she was "bad" and "bad news". This career diplomat who by all accounts did her job and did it well, is fired without notice and without any reason given and then her reputation is besmirched by Trump. Imagine if you heard the CEO and other top officers at your company telling others you were bad and bad news and you were fired without notice or reason, when by all accounts everyone thought you were doing your job well. Trump just can't keep his mouth shut and now it's biting him on the ass.
Simple. Because she's female.
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  #4907  
Old 11-16-2019, 08:20 PM
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Bah... If the asshole resigns, he will say channeling SmamptiAs the greatest of all great. I give you politics and economy. The most trending ever. As I've done politics, I must go and economize. I may run again if you support MAGA and buy my hats. And I must spend more time with Melany and Boron."
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  #4908  
Old 11-16-2019, 08:20 PM
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If there were some way to spin his resignation as "winning," then he might do it. He definitely won't resign because of health, because anyone who is less than 100% perfectly healthy is a LOSER. But if he could be convinced that resigning makes him a WINNER because it means he did it HIS WAY (cue Sinatra song) and no one else told him what to do. Obama would NEVER have resigned because he was a LOSER and only a WINNER walks away from the table! A WINNER isn't accountable to anyone else. He is the captain of his own ship and doesn't take orders from LOSERS. Blahblahblah. Harping on that might get his attention.
It's not even about winning or losing, it's power and legal protection. Being president is the only thing between him and the NY AG, and who knows how many other legal problems. He is not quitting.
  #4909  
Old 11-16-2019, 08:24 PM
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I wish people would stop suggesting that Trump will resign. There is zero chance of that. Even of McConnell tells him they are 100% voting to remove him he will sit there until that day and take down as many of them with him as he can. He is not giving up the one and only thing keeping him out of jail.
This. Is everyone forgetting that the only reason he isn't being prosecuted for multiple crimes right now is "can't indict a sitting president". The first sign that Trump is leaving will be dozens of blanket pardons for his family and associates.
  #4910  
Old 11-16-2019, 08:27 PM
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It's not even about winning or losing, it's power and legal protection. Being president is the only thing between him and the NY AG, and who knows how many other legal problems. He is not quitting.
Agree. That much I think he understands.

He's been avoiding consequences all his life. It's his business model.
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  #4911  
Old 11-16-2019, 08:27 PM
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He is not giving up the one and only thing keeping him out of jail.
I agree he won't resign, but not quite for that reason.

For one thing, he will self-pardon. While his lawyers will tell him they aren't sure that will fly, it probably will. As for the New York State legal system, it would be unlikely to prosecute him for actions that are both state and federal crimes because:

a. A GOP Supreme Court might rule that the self-pardon covers state misdeeds, especially if they overlap federal law.

b. Politicians in red states would be threatening that if New York State jails Trump, they'll go after President Warren/Biden/Sanders/Buttigieg the same way after they leave office.

Plus, if the heat got too warm. DJT could free to one of his luxury golf resorts in the UAE, which does not have an extradition treaty with the U.S.

Last edited by PhillyGuy; 11-16-2019 at 08:28 PM.
  #4912  
Old 11-16-2019, 08:32 PM
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If there were some way to spin his resignation as "winning," then he might do it. He definitely won't resign because of health, because anyone who is less than 100% perfectly healthy is a LOSER. But if he could be convinced that resigning makes him a WINNER because it means he did it HIS WAY (cue Sinatra song) and no one else told him what to do. Obama would NEVER have resigned because he was a LOSER and only a WINNER walks away from the table! A WINNER isn't accountable to anyone else. He is the captain of his own ship and doesn't take orders from LOSERS. Blahblahblah. Harping on that might get his attention.
Trump never wanted to be President, he just wanted to be respectable as a candidate, and he doesn't want to be President now. I don't think he is enjoying his life. I disagree that a medical excuse would make him a loser, in his mind. It is the perfect excuse. And he can make pronouncements about how he would have saved the US and the world if only he had not had this condition.

I hope this does not happen. I want him going down either through impeachment or a resounding defeat in the election. A long, slow, excruciating political death. If he goes out with a medical condition, he becomes a martyr for the MAGA-hat-wearing- morons.

But maybe even that is a good thing, they can stay in their delusional corner and oppsose any Republican running for Congress or President, splinter the Republican party. When he was first elected, I predicted that, in the long run, it would be the best thing to happen to Democrats, and Progressives, in years.

I am still hoping that will be come to be true.
  #4913  
Old 11-16-2019, 08:36 PM
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Originally Posted by ThelmaLou View Post
If there were some way to spin his resignation as "winning," then he might do it. He definitely won't resign because of health, because anyone who is less than 100% perfectly healthy is a LOSER. But if he could be convinced that resigning makes him a WINNER because it means he did it HIS WAY (cue Sinatra song) and no one else told him what to do. Obama would NEVER have resigned because he was a LOSER and only a WINNER walks away from the table! A WINNER isn't accountable to anyone else. He is the captain of his own ship and doesn't take orders from LOSERS. Blahblahblah. Harping on that might get his attention.

Simple. Because she's female.
Trump won't resign because, if he does, he goes to jail.

Michael Cohen has put it on the record that Trump was complicit in his campaign finance crimes. Once Trump loses Federal immunity, the FBI shows up with handcuffs.

He has to win 2020 or leave the country. I bet on the latter and I have predicted Turkey.

The President of Turkey just visited, by the by.
  #4914  
Old 11-16-2019, 08:55 PM
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I agree he won't resign, but not quite for that reason.

For one thing, he will self-pardon. While his lawyers will tell him they aren't sure that will fly, it probably will. As for the New York State legal system, it would be unlikely to prosecute him for actions that are both state and federal crimes because:

a. A GOP Supreme Court might rule that the self-pardon covers state misdeeds, especially if they overlap federal law.

b. Politicians in red states would be threatening that if New York State jails Trump, they'll go after President Warren/Biden/Sanders/Buttigieg the same way after they leave office.

Plus, if the heat got too warm. DJT could free to one of his luxury golf resorts in the UAE, which does not have an extradition treaty with the U.S.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure you can't be pardoned for a crime you haven't been indicted for yet (otherwise that could be any president's lifetime get-out-of-jail-free card).
a) From what I've read recently, this is unlikely
b) If they have evidence of crimes committed by these people, I would fully support that.
Also I doubt that DJT would flee the country. The US would likely freeze his assets. He's probably hoping that the "second amendment folks" will go after anyone who tries to prosecute him.
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  #4915  
Old 11-16-2019, 08:56 PM
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Trump never wanted to be President, he just wanted to be respectable as a candidate, and he doesn't want to be President now.
He's ambivalent over whether the White House is a nice place to live, or a dump.

What he is not ambivalent about is wanting to win a second term.

Remember that he began his re-election campaign earlier than any other previous U.S. President. This shows a strong determination to win a second term. (Or, as he has said repeatedly, something joking, sometimes I think not, several additional terms.)

I think it will be hard to get him out of that White House, even if mainstream media say he lost. Let's hope the Secret Service isn't all Republican.
  #4916  
Old 11-16-2019, 08:59 PM
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...Also I doubt that DJT would flee the country. The US would likely freeze his assets. He's probably hoping that the "second amendment folks" will go after anyone who tries to prosecute him.
Oh, a few countries would like to have him for a puppet, for a little while anyway. The good news is that I doubt that he knows much that could really threaten our security. I'd be surprised if he could tell you his own phone number.
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  #4917  
Old 11-16-2019, 09:02 PM
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Trump won't resign because, if he does, he goes to jail.

Michael Cohen has put it on the record that Trump was complicit in his campaign finance crimes. Once Trump loses Federal immunity, the FBI shows up with handcuffs.

He has to win 2020 or leave the country. I bet on the latter and I have predicted Turkey.

The President of Turkey just visited, by the by.
I keep hearing this argument. And I hope it is true, but I'm not sure. So many people on this forum were so sure that when the Mueller report came out that there would be clear evidence of collusion, many predicted Ivanka and Kushner would be indicted. Neither happened. And then in NY state, the Stormy Daniels case would surely bring him down. Nothing happened.

So what is the latest thing that will bring him down? The emmoulents clause? Yes, Trump has benefited by having foreign diplomats stay at his hotels. And the $100 million for raised for the inauguration, I think some of that money went to other purposes. But I just don't think that there is going to be enough evidence to convict him. You don't bring charges unless you are sure of getting a conviction.

Maybe he cheated on his taxes. Hell, we know he did by claiming,while President, to be a resident of Florida when he was living in NY state. Maybe there is more but you don't go to jail for that, you pay the fines.

I think Trump is very good at one thing and one thing only - doing, or getting other people, to do illegal or unethical things with no way to tie them directly to Trump. He has a lot of buffers.

Once he is gone, either by resigning, getting impeached (HA! with the current Republican party) or losing the election, I don't see any charges being brought. It will be just like Ford after Nixon, "for the good of the country" we'll just let it go. The FBI is not showing up with handcuffs, as much as I would love to see that.
  #4918  
Old 11-16-2019, 09:04 PM
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Trump won't resign because, if he does, he goes to jail.

Michael Cohen has put it on the record that Trump was complicit in his campaign finance crimes. Once Trump loses Federal immunity, the FBI shows up with handcuffs.

He has to win 2020 or leave the country. I bet on the latter and I have predicted Turkey.

The President of Turkey just visited, by the by.
Saudi Arabia. A Saudi prince will "host" Trump in a series of gilded rooms. For a price, you'll be able to come and look through the bars at the pet president.
  #4919  
Old 11-16-2019, 09:05 PM
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Once he is gone, either by resigning, getting impeached (HA! with the current Republican party) or losing the election, I don't see any charges being brought. It will be just like Ford after Nixon, "for the good of the country" we'll just let it go. The FBI is not showing up with handcuffs, as much as I would love to see that.
I think there will be an effort to put Trump in jail, but I also suspect that his partisans will claim that it's political retribution, which would then pave the way for a future republican to do the same.
  #4920  
Old 11-16-2019, 09:07 PM
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Also I doubt that DJT would flee the country. The US would likely freeze his assets. He's probably hoping that the "second amendment folks" will go after anyone who tries to prosecute him.
You're assuming that he has assets and you're assuming that he has left them in the US.

There's a lot of history saying that corrupt heads of state, of the stupid sort, flee the country and go into self-imposed exile.

I'm a big believer in learning from history. It's not always right, but it's better than spit-balling.
  #4921  
Old 11-16-2019, 09:10 PM
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Definitely Saudi Arabia. He loved that globe thingy. He's also too much of a coward to go to Russia. But the real answer is pardons all around.
  #4922  
Old 11-16-2019, 09:11 PM
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Saudi Arabia. A Saudi prince will "host" Trump in a series of gilded rooms. For a price, you'll be able to come and look through the bars at the pet president.
Saudi Arabia has too much financial dependence on the US and he doesn't have any property there.

He has property in the UAE but, again, they're close to the US.
  #4923  
Old 11-16-2019, 09:20 PM
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He has property in the UAE but, again, they're close to the US.
So what?

The last thing a Democratic President needs is for the Trump soap opera to continue, with daily tweets during his trials and, if he loses, endless state and federal appeals -- and, if he wins, for the rest of his life.

Having DJT trapped in a country with limited Internet freedom would be, for the Democrats, just too good to be true. I don't think it will happen, but it's a nice dream.

Last edited by PhillyGuy; 11-16-2019 at 09:22 PM.
  #4924  
Old 11-16-2019, 09:21 PM
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Don't attack the source, attack the content. I actually posted video clips showing what appears to be Yovanovitch contradicting herself, and when I found that gatewaypundit made the same point I noticed they also allege two other lies by Yavonovitch and posted them here for discussion.

Here is another link I found with the two clips spliced together, making it easier to see:
https://mobile.twitter.com/TrumpWarR...46982988455938
I feel like I directly addressed this in post #4765, almost immediately after you posted it, and you seemed to have glossed over it.
  #4925  
Old 11-16-2019, 09:22 PM
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I keep hearing this argument. And I hope it is true, but I'm not sure. So many people on this forum were so sure that when the Mueller report came out that there would be clear evidence of collusion, many predicted Ivanka and Kushner would be indicted. Neither happened. And then in NY state, the Stormy Daniels case would surely bring him down. Nothing happened.

So what is the latest thing that will bring him down? The emmoulents clause?
Unless you're very very cynical, I would suggest that if nothing else gets rid of him that term limits will.

He can only go for eight years. Ain't no more than that.
  #4926  
Old 11-16-2019, 09:54 PM
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If reelected, he will not finish a second term. I don't think that he'll live that long. (Not advocating, just predicting.)
  #4927  
Old 11-16-2019, 09:58 PM
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Unless you're very very cynical, I would suggest that if nothing else gets rid of him that term limits will.

He can only go for eight years. Ain't no more than that.
who is suggesting otherwise, except some nuts who think he will get re-elected and then install himself as Dictator for Life. To focus back on the question I raised, I think Trump is guilty of multiple crimes, I just don't see any criminal convictions coming, as much as I would like to see them.
  #4928  
Old 11-16-2019, 10:15 PM
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I predict, after his hospital visit, he will completely change direction and become one of the most popular presidents of all time. He will make difficult budget cuts to benefit social programs and even be filmed playing with underprivileged children. He will easily win a second term and serve admirably until a former staffer implicates him a serious crime which can't be ignored at which time he'll suffer a relapse of his original medical emergency and slip into a coma resulting in President Pence.

Or did I watch Dave last night and I just need more sleep?
  #4929  
Old 11-16-2019, 10:21 PM
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure you can't be pardoned for a crime you haven't been indicted for yet (otherwise that could be any president's lifetime get-out-of-jail-free card).
You are agreeing with Nancy Pelosi, who says The President is not above the law.

I think she's wrong. But I can't prove it. Yet.

It's true that the whole self-pardon thing is questionable.

But, in the end, the law is what the Supreme Court says it is. And at the point in time they'd have to decide this, most of them will be, as today, GOP political appointees.

We'll know for sure, in ten years or less, who is right -- me, who says Donald Trump is above the law, or Speaker Pelosi, who says he isn't.

P.S. There's one law I think Trump isn't above. It's the Constitutional provision that says he has to vacate the White House after eight years, or four year if he isn't re-elected. However, he has talked about being above that law. And he's friends with people like Putin and Erdoğan who point the way to retaining office despite term limits. So even though I think Trump isn't above this one law, I'm not confident.
  #4930  
Old 11-16-2019, 10:24 PM
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I predict, after his hospital visit, he will completely change direction and become one of the most popular presidents of all time. He will make difficult budget cuts to benefit social programs and even be filmed playing with underprivileged children. He will easily win a second term and serve admirably until a former staffer implicates him a serious crime which can't be ignored at which time he'll suffer a relapse of his original medical emergency and slip into a coma resulting in President Pence.

Or did I watch Dave last night and I just need more sleep?
If Trump was not such an idiot, he would be one of the most popular Presidents ever, not just among Republicans. The economy is good, so he's got that (not that he had anything to do with it). If he were to just say that he has reevaulated some of his positions, that working with the Congress on immigration reform instead of building a wal was a better idea, and that he would work with the Congress on other issues like infrastructure. Just move towards the center instead of continually moving hard right. But to do that, he would have to admit he was wrong. All he wants is to be loved, and he is too fucking stupid to do the things that would get that love.
  #4931  
Old 11-16-2019, 10:33 PM
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Without any evidence to support it, it sure can be (easily dismissed). Your nifty hypothetical is just that: a hypothetical.
You can’t even find evidence of a quid pro quo, so your claims of “no evidence!” ring as hollow as Jared Kushner’s resume.
  #4932  
Old 11-16-2019, 10:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Running with Scissors View Post
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure you can't be pardoned for a crime you haven't been indicted for yet (otherwise that could be any president's lifetime get-out-of-jail-free card).
OK I'll correct you. Ford's pardon of Nixon read in part: "by these presents do grant a full, free, and absolute pardon unto Richard Nixon for all offenses against the United States which he, Richard Nixon, has committed or may have committed or taken part in during the period from January 20, 1969 through August 9,1974."

I don't think he was indicted for anything. Remember he was an unindicted co-conspirator. But even if he was indicted, Ford pardoned him for anything he might have done which clearly includes things, if any, he wasn't indicted for.

Remember also the 1915 Supreme Court decision in Burdick v. United States suggested that a pardon carries an imputation of guilt and that its acceptance carries a confession of guilt.
  #4933  
Old 11-16-2019, 11:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Jack Batty View Post
I predict, after his hospital visit, he will completely change direction and become one of the most popular presidents of all time. He will make difficult budget cuts to benefit social programs and even be filmed playing with underprivileged children. He will easily win a second term and serve admirably until a former staffer implicates him a serious crime which can't be ignored at which time he'll suffer a relapse of his original medical emergency and slip into a coma resulting in President Pence.

Or did I watch Dave last night and I just need more sleep?
Well hell duplicate post. Ignore this one.

If Trump was not such an idiot, he would be one of the most popular Presidents ever, not just among Republicans. The economy is good, so he's got that (not that he had anything to do with it). If he were to just say that he has reevaulated some of his positions, that working with the Congress on immigration reform instead of building a wal was a better idea, and that he would work with the Congress on other issues like infrastructure. Just move towards the center instead of continually moving hard right. But to do that, he would have to admit he was wrong. All he wants is to be loved, and he is too fucking stupid to do the things that would get that love.

Last edited by Mike Mabes; 11-16-2019 at 11:07 PM.
  #4934  
Old 11-16-2019, 11:08 PM
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Originally Posted by OldGuy View Post
OK I'll correct you. Ford's pardon of Nixon read in part: "by these presents do grant a full, free, and absolute pardon unto Richard Nixon for all offenses against the United States which he, Richard Nixon, has committed or may have committed or taken part in during the period from January 20, 1969 through August 9,1974."

I don't think he was indicted for anything. Remember he was an unindicted co-conspirator. But even if he was indicted, Ford pardoned him for anything he might have done which clearly includes things, if any, he wasn't indicted for.

Remember also the 1915 Supreme Court decision in Burdick v. United States suggested that a pardon carries an imputation of guilt and that its acceptance carries a confession of guilt.
Yep. Nixon was never indicted for anything, as I fear Trump will not be.
  #4935  
Old 11-16-2019, 11:23 PM
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My doctors tell me the Democrat Witch Hunt has given me ulcers. I need major medical care, due to Bad Nasty Democrats! They are traitors and should be sued for treason! But don't worry, your "favorite President" will stay on the job. Pain can't stop Trump! For America I will keep going. MAGA!
The Democrats attempt on my presidency has left me scarred and deformed. But, I assure you, my resolve has never been stronger!
  #4936  
Old 11-17-2019, 09:24 AM
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If Trump was not such an idiot, he would be one of the most popular Presidents ever, not just among Republicans. . . .

All he wants is to be loved . . .
How is it that so many anti-Trump Americans sincerely think that the most successful American confidence man of our time is an idiot?

Perhaps the mistaken idea that "all he wants is to be loved" explains it.

If DJT was personality-tested against David McClelland's motivation theory, he'd be highest on unsocialized need for power. He'd be low on need for achievement*, as is probably normal for a politician. Not so normal is his low need for affiliation with other people AKA what you call love. With regard to that last, think what the absence of DJT, from this book page, tells us about the President:

Donald Jr., Tristan, and Mike Pence
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* For someone like myself, who is high on socialized need to achieve, and low on the other scales, it was, when learning McClelland's theory, hard to understand how anyone could care way more about power than achievement. But lots of smart people have that profile.

Last edited by PhillyGuy; 11-17-2019 at 09:28 AM.
  #4937  
Old 11-17-2019, 10:13 AM
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Originally Posted by PhillyGuy View Post
How is it that so many anti-Trump Americans sincerely think that the most successful American confidence man of our time is an idiot?
Have you heard him try to speak? Have you read his Tweets? People that know him have said he's a "Fucking moron". A professor at Wharton College said “Donald Trump was the dumbest goddam student I ever had.”

He's a good con man because he has/had (American banks have disowned him so he turned to Russia) power and money to use as pressure and protection. His problem is that now, he doesn't have the ability to buy (most) people off or threaten them to go away (although he tries).

When he was called on trying to extort Ukraine (one of our allies for gods sake) for his own gain, he released a transcript of the "perfect" phone call that showed that he had done just that.

Come on PhillyGuy. You know he's an idiot. The last three years is proof.
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* For someone like myself, who is high on socialized need to achieve, and low on the other scales, it was, when learning McClelland's theory, hard to understand how anyone could care way more about power than achievement. But lots of smart people have that profile.[/QUOTE]
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Last edited by enipla; 11-17-2019 at 10:17 AM.
  #4938  
Old 11-17-2019, 10:25 AM
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...Remember that he began his re-election campaign earlier than any other previous U.S. President[/url]. This shows a strong determination to win a second term. ,,,.
It also opens a campaign finance fund, where huge sums of money come in, swirl around and find ways into his personal pocket.
  #4939  
Old 11-17-2019, 10:45 AM
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It also opens a campaign finance fund, where huge sums of money come in, swirl around and find ways into his personal pocket.
He campaigns at MAGA rallies a lot. They are the only people that are still fooled.

Or ever where fooled.
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  #4940  
Old 11-17-2019, 10:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Running with Scissors View Post
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure you can't be pardoned for a crime you haven't been indicted for yet
It may be worth noting that Nixon was not under indictment when Ford pardoned him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhillyGuy View Post
You are agreeing with Nancy Pelosi, who says The President is not above the law.

I think she's wrong. But I can't prove it. Yet.

It's true that the whole self-pardon thing is questionable.

But, in the end, the law is what the Supreme Court says it is. And at the point in time they'd have to decide this, most of them will be, as today, GOP political appointees.

We'll know for sure, in ten years or less, who is right -- me, who says Donald Trump is above the law, or Speaker Pelosi, who says he isn't.

P.S. There's one law I think Trump isn't above. It's the Constitutional provision that says he has to vacate the White House after eight years, or four year if he isn't re-elected. However, he has talked about being above that law. And he's friends with people like Putin and Erdoğan who point the way to retaining office despite term limits. So even though I think Trump isn't above this one law, I'm not confident.
People have proposed Amendments in this thread, and here’s my proposal.

Whenever a president is subjected to a valid impeachment inquiry (validity to be determined by SCOTUS), his (or her, it could — eventually — be a her) pardoning prerogative is suspended for the duration (that is, until the inquiry is ended without Articles of impeachment being returned, or a verdict has been reached by the Senate).

Unintended ramifications might include the president announcing pardons under consideration during the period of suspension (which could be addressed by including a gag order in the wording of the amendment), and such an amendment incentivizing getting as many appointees on the Court as possible, as quickly as possible.

P.S. The amendment should also expressly prohibit self-pardoning.

Last edited by kaylasdad99; 11-17-2019 at 10:53 AM.
  #4941  
Old 11-17-2019, 11:20 AM
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I feel like I directly addressed this in post #4765, almost immediately after you posted it, and you seemed to have glossed over it.
There are a lot of people posting, and it becomes impractical to directly address each person in my posts. I had your comment, and others, in mind when I wrote the snippet below. I included a quote from another poster though, because I read many posters saying they exclude certain sources from their consideration entirely, and the poster I cited even expressed being only willing to read written sources, which I considered an extreme case of having such "blinders" on. It seems to me that the people on the side of "Trump needs to be impeached because of what we are hearing in the testimony" are of the "blinders on" type, while those saying "this doesn't add up to anything remotely impeachable" are more open to perusing a variety of sources.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Peebles View Post
I think you should make an exception here. This is the video of what actually happened. Nothing can be more objective in this case:
https://mobile.twitter.com/TrumpWarR...46982988455938
Why is this relevant? The first clip in the video is from her prepared opening statement. Thus it is less likely to be an innocent mistake. To me it suggests that wherever she thinks she can get away with it, she will bend the truth, or perhaps lie, to paint Trump in a bad light.
To directly address what you wrote: I thought you meant I was confused about what Yovanovitch was trying to say. But since the first clip in the video above was from a prepared opening statement, it is "less likely to be an innocent mistake", and thus, compared to the admission in the second clip, as I wrote above: "to me it suggests that wherever she thinks she can get away with it, she will bend the truth, or perhaps lie, to paint Trump in a bad light".

I don't want to see any of these witnesses brought up on perjury charges. They have been goaded into these hearings by Democrats just out for their own political gain, and are not being given the proper cautions about testifying under oath. Google "why you should ask for a lawyer" and you will get many results explaining (among other things) that to varying degrees everyone tells white lies, rewrites events subconsciously to fit what they are thinking now, make mistakes, etc. But it appears they are just being rushed into this and promoted from the secret to the open hearings if what they say looks bad for Trump, but with no regard for making sure they aren't mistaken, or telling the sort of lies they tend to in casual conversation but don't even notice, in their testimony. Luckily for them, I don't think the Republicans are going to prosecute them for it. This is having an effect I don't think the Democrats foresaw though. Recall that in the Mueller probe a number of Trump associates were convicted of lying, and the sources it seems many people posting here refuse to look at have voiced the "people are not robots" defense in regards to some of the counts of lying: Roger Stone is an example recently in the news. And things like this from
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/n...t-consequences
Quote:
Flynn, his lawyers suggest, was surprised, rushed, not warned of the context or seriousness of the questioning, and discouraged from having a lawyer present.
So now it has become a Republican rallying point to call out the draconian treatment of Trump's associates for lies or "misstatements" compared to the apparent letting such things slide for the Democrat's impeachment witnesses. This will have the effect of having his supporters chomping at the bit to go vote for him in 2020.
  #4942  
Old 11-17-2019, 11:28 AM
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I don't want to see any of these witnesses brought up on perjury charges.
Of course you don’t, because it would be embarrassing to have yet another MAGA legal matter laughed out of court. The playbook for the Trump defense is slander and innuendo, and staying away from facts as possible.
  #4943  
Old 11-17-2019, 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Jim Peebles View Post
To directly address what you wrote: I thought you meant I was confused about what Yovanovitch was trying to say. But since the first clip in the video above was from a prepared opening statement, it is "less likely to be an innocent mistake", and thus, compared to the admission in the second clip, as I wrote above: "to me it suggests that wherever she thinks she can get away with it, she will bend the truth, or perhaps lie, to paint Trump in a bad light".
You have failed to address what I wrote, and I'm not sure you even understand why.

Do you know how confirmation hearings work? Applicants sit in front of the senate and get asked questions about their past experience. For some applicants, this involves getting softball questions from their own side, and getting grilled by the other side. In order to prepare applicants for this grilling, especially non-lawyer applicants who probably don't otherwise have any experience with this sort of high pressure "gotcha" type of questioning, staffers will prepare "mock" questions and pretend to be opposing-side senators. It's like the PSAT for confirmation hearings.

It appears that during Amb. Yavonovitch's preparations, Obama staffers "mock" grilled her about Biden/Burisma, in anticipation of Republicans doing the same during her confirmation hearing.

The fact that they prepared her for this attack is in no way the same thing as Obama discussing Biden/Burisma with her during the course of her actual duties.


That's the simple, non-sinister explanation for this contradiction you think you've found. Do you dispute any of what I described?

Last edited by steronz; 11-17-2019 at 12:03 PM.
  #4944  
Old 11-17-2019, 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Jim Peebles View Post
There are a lot of people posting, and it becomes impractical to directly address each person in my posts. I had your comment, and others, in mind when I wrote the snippet below. I included a quote from another poster though, because I read many posters saying they exclude certain sources from their consideration entirely, and the poster I cited even expressed being only willing to read written sources, which I considered an extreme case of having such "blinders" on. It seems to me that the people on the side of "Trump needs to be impeached because of what we are hearing in the testimony" are of the "blinders on" type, while those saying "this doesn't add up to anything remotely impeachable" are more open to perusing a variety of sources.



To directly address what you wrote: I thought you meant I was confused about what Yovanovitch was trying to say. But since the first clip in the video above was from a prepared opening statement, it is "less likely to be an innocent mistake", and thus, compared to the admission in the second clip, as I wrote above: "to me it suggests that wherever she thinks she can get away with it, she will bend the truth, or perhaps lie, to paint Trump in a bad light".

I don't want to see any of these witnesses brought up on perjury charges. They have been goaded into these hearings by Democrats just out for their own political gain, and are not being given the proper cautions about testifying under oath. Google "why you should ask for a lawyer" and you will get many results explaining (among other things) that to varying degrees everyone tells white lies, rewrites events subconsciously to fit what they are thinking now, make mistakes, etc. But it appears they are just being rushed into this and promoted from the secret to the open hearings if what they say looks bad for Trump, but with no regard for making sure they aren't mistaken, or telling the sort of lies they tend to in casual conversation but don't even notice, in their testimony. Luckily for them, I don't think the Republicans are going to prosecute them for it. This is having an effect I don't think the Democrats foresaw though. Recall that in the Mueller probe a number of Trump associates were convicted of lying, and the sources it seems many people posting here refuse to look at have voiced the "people are not robots" defense in regards to some of the counts of lying: Roger Stone is an example recently in the news. And things like this from
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/n...t-consequences

So now it has become a Republican rallying point to call out the draconian treatment of Trump's associates for lies or "misstatements" compared to the apparent letting such things slide for the Democrat's impeachment witnesses. This will have the effect of having his supporters chomping at the bit to go vote for him in 2020.
Jim Peebles, do you honestly think that Trump’s fixation on Hunter Biden is totally and completely unrelated to the fact that his father is his major political opponent at this point in time?

And, as to the rest of this stuff, I suspect the Republicans will not be prosecuting Yovanovitch for the same reason they’re not prosecuting me for eating breakfast. Because they know there’s absolutely no fucking reason.

And I expect that soon the investigation will expand beyond the phone call. Way beyond. Cause if the State Department had a policy of actively trying to put Westerners on the board of Ukrainian corporations, and the President and his henchmen were trying to subvert that process by getting Russian friendly interests on the board of those companies, there’s a word for that. And it’s not bribery.

https://apnews.com/d7440cffba4940f5b85cd3dfa3500fb2

And Gym Jordan will be reduced to taking off his pants and screaming at the witnesses in pig Latin, then disparaging them by showing video of the confusion on their faces.

Last edited by Ann Hedonia; 11-17-2019 at 12:05 PM.
  #4945  
Old 11-17-2019, 01:33 PM
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No Philly guy could ever support the idiot where I come from. I grew up 55 miles from AC in NJ in the '80s, '90s. (Go, EAGLES!) There's still unresolved class action suits over the Taj Mahal bankruptcy. We knew he couldn't run a hot dog stand then and it still surprises me how ANYONE outside the Trump family could ever consider him a candidate for anything. We knew then he never saw a business plan through to the end.

Last edited by Locrian; 11-17-2019 at 01:33 PM.
  #4946  
Old 11-17-2019, 01:47 PM
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Jim Peebles, do you honestly think that Trump’s fixation on Hunter Biden is totally and completely unrelated to the fact that his father is his major political opponent at this point in time?
Yes I do. In fact, I think Trump would prefer to run against Biden over all the other Democrat contenders. Biden appears to be going senile, and Trump would crush him in debates. And if you type "creepy Uncle Joe" into youtube, you will find numerous videos which can be turned into campaign commercials to broadcast in October 2020. On top of that Biden is an old white male, which is used to disparage Republican candidates all the time.
  #4947  
Old 11-17-2019, 02:17 PM
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. . . it still surprises me how ANYONE outside the Trump family could ever consider him a candidate for anything. We knew then he never saw a business plan through to the end.
There's a sucker born every minute. (We see that even here.) It's the entire basis of Trump's MO.
  #4948  
Old 11-17-2019, 02:17 PM
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"Crush him in debate"? Trump? With his encyclopedic knowledge of the facts, and his incisive intelligence and eloquence? Or something else?
  #4949  
Old 11-17-2019, 02:27 PM
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"Crush him in debate"? Trump? With his encyclopedic knowledge of the facts, and his incisive intelligence and eloquence? Or something else?
Probably just by sitting on him.
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  #4950  
Old 11-17-2019, 02:33 PM
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Yes I do. In fact, I think Trump would prefer to run against Biden over all the other Democrat contenders.
Because Rudy has contacted every liar in the Eastern Bloc who is willing to make shit up about the Bidens.
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