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Old 11-11-2019, 11:44 PM
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I am a proud middle of the roader and damn proud of it


I am a proud middle of the roader.

I am sick and tired of ideological purity. I hate it.


Since the post-2014 US midterm elections and the rise of the ascendant American left with Bernie Sanders' insurgent 2016 primary bid against the Democratic establishment favorite Hillary Clinton, who lost to Donald Trump, leftists online, especially the activist leftist Twitter, demonizes those in the center. Those with a center view on taxation, crime, etc. are threatened and called names online. You are a "bootlicker", "racist", "fascist". And they wonder why people in general despise the far left.

The right, the Trumpian right specifically, calls you a "communist", "traitor" if you don't align politically with the Dear Leader. You are a pawn for "Hillary/Obama/Holder".

I am sick of it.

I hate purity.

Let me tell you about centrism.

Let me tell you about middle of the roadism.

I have conservative and liberal views on certain issues.

I believe that federal and state income taxes should be raised higher on the wealthy.

I believe in funding schools and transportation.

I believe in a national defense that is not the world's police, but strong, equipped and agile to deal with the challenges facing America.

I believe that America has race and social problems that requires reparations for slavery through a system conducted by the IRS to invest money in black ancestors of slavery and into communities that truly will make an impact, not throwing money at the problem.

I believe that they are good police officers overall. The bad and corrupt police officers that kill unarmed people or are poorly trained, or have racial bias should be jailed and fired. I believe that community-police relations and fostering mutual respect between the two is better than people saying "Shoot the cops, kill the cops, punch the cops".

I believe that people should marry who they love and leave it to that.

I am a middle of the roader. I am not a communist. I am not a fascist.

Most Americans of all races are middle of the road.

We are the exhausted majority and we are tired of being bullied by the extremes that get a larger voice than all the others.

We are tired of Vox, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, Breitbart and Jim Jordan dictating what politics is and isn't.

The left and right does not have all the answers to everything.

Don't tell me that I have no conviction.

I have the conviction of realism and reason. I know what I know in my heart.


https://www.vox.com/policy-and-polit...n-david-brooks

https://www.quora.com/Why-do-people-dislike-centrists

https://hiddentribes.us/profiles

Last edited by Yankees 1996 Champs; 11-11-2019 at 11:45 PM.
  #2  
Old 11-12-2019, 12:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Yankees 1996 Champs View Post
We are the exhausted majority and we are tired of being bullied by the extremes that get a larger voice than all the others.
Meh. If you're too fragile to cope with radicals of whatever political stripe insulting you for holding more moderate views, then maybe stay off the internet?

"Centrism" and bothsidesism are often a figleaf used by people with some genuinely despicable views who are miffed at being criticized for those views. Most of the rest of us manage to disagree on reasonable positions with other reasonable people and ignore the unreasonable types without whining about how we're being "bullied".

Last edited by Kimstu; 11-12-2019 at 12:01 AM.
  #3  
Old 11-12-2019, 12:07 AM
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And BTW, that cite of yours doesn't actually agree with your position:

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Originally Posted by Yankees 1996 Champs View Post
Quote:
Is there really an “exhausted majority” of Americans against partisanship? Probably not. [...]

To most political observers, it seems obvious that political polarization is on the rise. [...]

But a new genre of political punditry has proclaimed this something of a myth [...] that polarization is in fact overstated, and that there’s an “exhausted majority” in America yearning for political leaders that use centrist compromise as its guiding light. [...]

These articles all cite the same source for this claim: A new report on American public opinion by the group More In Common, an organization dedicated to fighting political polarization. [...]

The report is, as a matter of quality, a mixed bag. It has a lot of interesting data, and has a sophisticated way of approaching polling, but its most headline-worthy conclusions are grounded in pretty questionable analysis. [...]

So while the report is by no means useless, the new centrist punditry is resting its arguments on the report’s weakest point. The fact that they’re willing to make such dubious claims speaks more to the mind of the Washington centrist than anything else: a tribe with virtually no members outside of a small elite that suffers from a deep-seated need to convince itself otherwise. [...]

Polarization is not merely a matter of people disagreeing on specific political issues; it’s about the very foundations of a shared American social reality fracturing.

That can’t be fixed by politicians reaching out to the other side, or advocating policies that are broadly popular with the American public. [...]

These pundit descriptions of the “More In Common” report share an error. They take a questionable analysis of the nature of American public opinion, one specifically designed to speak to the reality of polarization, and apply it directly to two-party competition. They also draw a similar conclusion: that the problem is with both of the major political parties being too extreme, and that some kind of compromise by party leadership can save the republic.

But the report doesn’t support any of those conclusions.
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Old 11-12-2019, 12:30 AM
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And BTW, that cite of yours doesn't actually agree with your position:
Its still a cite, it doesn't matter. The far left is not the majority of America. The far right is not the majority of America. I am a middle of the roader. I have different views on certain issues.
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Old 11-12-2019, 12:46 AM
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Its still a cite, it doesn't matter.
Well, nobody's denying that it's a cite. What I'm wondering is what point you thought you were making by citing it. After all, it explicitly disagrees with the fundamental claim of your OP that there's an "exhausted majority" in America that is opposed to political partisanship.
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Old 11-12-2019, 12:47 AM
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Its still a cite, it doesn't matter.
Cites are provided for the purpose of supporting one's argument. Providing a cite that disproves your own argument is an own goal. Shouting loudly about your unsupported personal beliefs is the part that doesn't matter.

Have you considered LiveJournal?
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Old 11-12-2019, 05:26 AM
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I consider myself a "radical centrist" and agree with much of OP's sentiments.

But it should be noted that today's fight is often less about Left vs Right than about Truth vs Lies. About Science, Human Values and Rational Thought vs Fears and Hatreds fomented deliberately by Kleptocrats like Charles Koch.

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Originally Posted by Yankees 1996 Champs View Post
I am a proud middle of the roader.

I am sick and tired of ideological purity. I hate it.
... We are the exhausted majority and we are tired of being bullied by the extremes that get a larger voice than all the others.

We are tired of Vox, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, Breitbart and Jim Jordan dictating what politics is and isn't.
...
Sorry. If "middle of the road" means steering a path halfway between Truth and Lies, then count me out. Lumping AOC's flaws with Brietbart's already seems strange. And where does Vox fit in? Here's a famous opinion piece by a Vox founder. If you can find something as intelligent on Breitbart please link to it.
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Old 11-12-2019, 05:47 AM
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Its still a cite, it doesn't matter. The far left is not the majority of America. The far right is not the majority of America. I am a middle of the roader. I have different views on certain issues.
Its funny because the far left has completely taken over the Democrat party and far left politics & woke liberal/communist ideology is madly unpopular.

Trump may be a dick but his politics is bog standard republican/conservative.
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Old 11-12-2019, 05:53 AM
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And where does Vox fit in?
Vox is the liberal/woke/leftwing version of Fox New and by most online bias sites has them equally left or farther to the left than Fox News is to the right.

Something I've noticed a lot by posters on this board is that they cry like mad about Fox News but barf up Vox (or similar) hard left rags as proof of their outlandish claims.

The fringe of the Democrat Party has completely taken over the moderate "party of the working man" Democrats.
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Old 11-12-2019, 06:03 AM
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Its funny because the far left has completely taken over the Democrat party ...
"Petty, disrespectful namecallers have taken over the Republican party", he mentioned without a hint of irony in his voice. He said nothing of nazi's, by the way.
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Old 11-12-2019, 06:27 AM
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To the OP: Your positions sound like straight-up Democratic Party positions, except for the reparations part -- that's still considered pretty radical, even within the party. What are you middle-of-the-road about? I can't tell from your OP. Abortions for some, tiny American flags for others? Is it your position on the police? That doesn't sound conservative to me. I'm pretty baffled by your OP.


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Its funny because the far left has completely taken over the Democrat party ....
Nitpick: "It[']s funny..." and "...Democrat[ic] [P]arty..."

Anyway, please cite in the Democratic Party platform where the far left has taken over. What has changed from, say, four years ago? Eight years ago? Thanks.

I agree that most of Trump's positions (with the exception of his border policies) are straight up Republican positions, but unfortunately, he says the quiet Southern Strategy part out loud and that makes other Republicans tut-tut before agreeing with him.
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Old 11-12-2019, 06:50 AM
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I am sick of it.

I hate purity.

Let me tell you about centrism.
Most of the views you described are some form of what people would call leftist and reflect what you'd read on Vox and elsewhere. It seems like you're citing these things but accepting right-wing characterizations instead of thinking them through for yourself.

I mean, being pro-reparations - I agree it's an admirable in principle but I don't think it's politically or practically achievable. I'm decidedly leftist and you're farther left than I am on that particular score. You're definitely not centrist on that.

It seems to me like you are a common-sense leftist who has bought the right-wing propagandizing that the center is much closer to them than everyone else. Or else there's some specific wedge issue that's sticking in your craw. Is it the guns, or same-sex bathrooms, or is it those awful PC people who won't let you tell fun jokes?
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Old 11-12-2019, 06:58 AM
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Nitpick: "It[']s funny..." and "...Democrat[ic] [P]arty..."
I used to write "Democrat Party" until I was told that it was wrong, and a device used by Limbaugh and his ilk to attempt an insult.

Now, I have two teeny-weeny brain cells that got the message and add the "ic" automatically.

But omitting the "ic" has become a meme for a certain nasty mentality. (Of course I would NEVER suggest that this might apply to the Doper you're quoting). They can shrug their shoulders and say "Democrat Party -- what's the big deal?" and go back to their little meme, deriving nasty satisfaction from the hope it needles their opponents. It will be interesting to see if this Doper can stop his bad habit, knowing now how petty it seems.
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Old 11-12-2019, 07:20 AM
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I agree that most of Trump's positions (with the exception of his border policies) are straight up Republican positions, but unfortunately, he says the quiet Southern Strategy part out loud and that makes other Republicans tut-tut before agreeing with him.
Sorry to quote myself, but I'm more awake now.

Trump actually has several major policies that differ sharply from traditional Republican stances. His tariffs and trade war, his cutting and running in Syria, and his embrace of Russia come to mind.

His willingness to blow up the deficit for unfunded tax cuts is pretty standard and his bribing of farmers is bipartisan.

septimus, I'm sure it was just a mistake on that poster's part, like his/her misuse of "its". No doubt it won't happen again.
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Old 11-12-2019, 07:48 AM
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Its funny because the far left has completely taken over the Democrat party and far left politics & woke liberal/communist ideology is madly unpopular.
Who has time to worry about communism when we've the Kaiser to defeat!


Whoops, sorry, thought it was 1917 for a minute and got all confused.

Last edited by yendis; 11-12-2019 at 07:48 AM.
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Old 11-12-2019, 08:12 AM
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I'm wondering how anyone who comes across as racist as the OP can consider themself a centrist?
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Old 11-12-2019, 08:14 AM
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I wish you were able to take pride in not being redundant in your thread titles.

I don't have any use for the MAGAbots or Berniebots either. Both sets take their Dear Leader as being infallible. But at least Berniebots still nominally believe in democracy.

I dislike the purity police as well. I think there is room in the Democratic Party for anti-abortion voters, gun nuts, and fiscal conservatives. We can't be saying that if you don't subscribe to 100% of our beliefs, you can't be one of us. We've become tribal, and that's unfortunate.
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Old 11-12-2019, 08:42 AM
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I used to write "Democrat Party" until I was told that it was wrong, and a device used by Limbaugh and his ilk to attempt an insult.

Now, I have two teeny-weeny brain cells that got the message and add the "ic" automatically.

But omitting the "ic" has become a meme for a certain nasty mentality. (Of course I would NEVER suggest that this might apply to the Doper you're quoting). They can shrug their shoulders and say "Democrat Party -- what's the big deal?" and go back to their little meme, deriving nasty satisfaction from the hope it needles their opponents. It will be interesting to see if this Doper can stop his bad habit, knowing now how petty it seems.
Well, it bothers somebody.
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Old 11-12-2019, 09:33 AM
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Old 11-12-2019, 09:52 AM
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Cite for Trump having politics?
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Old 11-12-2019, 09:55 AM
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"Centrist" and "middle-of-the-roader" doesn't actually mean anything. Claiming to be not-this and not-that isn't virtuous in and of itself. What do you actually believe?
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Old 11-12-2019, 10:14 AM
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Well, it bothers somebody.
Cite? Whom does it bother?

It certainly doesn't bother me; to the contrary it provides useful information about the person using the term.
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Old 11-12-2019, 10:34 AM
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I'm wondering how anyone who comes across as racist as the OP can consider themself a centrist?
The OP is problematic in some ways but where are you getting racism from it?

He seems like a definitely liberal person who thinks he's a militant centrist because he buys Fox News portrayal of Democrats and liberals.

It's an unusual viewpoint, but many unusual viewpoints are wrong.

It's only "centrist" in that way that self-described centrists congratulate themselves for being only halfway extreme.
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Old 11-12-2019, 10:39 AM
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The OP is problematic in some ways but where are you getting racism from it?
From his posts in other threads.
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Old 11-12-2019, 10:42 AM
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Trump may be a dick but his politics is bog standard republican/conservative.
Ain't that the god's honest truth.

Sorry, did you mean to say that out loud?
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Old 11-12-2019, 10:45 AM
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The OP is problematic in some ways but where are you getting racism from it?
Not from the OP but from other posts.

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You can say the same thing about Walt Clyde Frazier, a black basketball legend as well.
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Brown gives black people a bad name. You don't see white athletes imploding like this. Do they?
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Old 11-12-2019, 10:58 AM
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I dislike the purity police as well. I think there is room in the Democratic Party for anti-abortion voters, gun nuts, and fiscal conservatives. We can't be saying that if you don't subscribe to 100% of our beliefs, you can't be one of us. We've become tribal, and that's unfortunate.
Well said. When both sides are saying "If you're not with us, you're against us.", that doesn't leave any room for any sort of common ground for legislative sausage to be made, nor does it leave any room for people who aren't on board with either side's platform.

It's basically asking everyone to choose sides, and there are a lot of us out here who don't really want to be painted with either broad brush. I mean, I tend to identify with the Democratic party on some issues and ideas, and with the Republicans on others. Historically I've been a reluctant Republican voter until the past 10 years or so, at which point it became apparent that the Tea Party and the forces that drove it were pushing the party to be hateful, reactionary and ignorant, and emphasizing ideas like lower taxes past the point where it's useful. Lower taxes are nice, but not when it means reducing something that is actually needed.

But I can't say that I've ever really liked the Democratic party's emphasis on what amount to identity politics w.r.t. ethnicity, sexuality and socio-economic status. As an upper middle class middle-aged white man, I'm painted as the enemy in a lot of the Democratic rhetoric, and very little of what their politicians speak about has much relevance to me- the overarching message that I get is that I should vote for them out of some sense of shame or to give myself warm fuzzies for helping out the poor/gay/ethnic people. There's very little said that comes out and says "Bump- this is going to be good for YOU".

So I don't identify with either party, and yet am constantly bombarded with people who say that it means I'm wishy-washy, or lukewarm or something. That's not the case- it means that I'm not aligned with either extreme.
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Old 11-12-2019, 11:00 AM
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Shit like this is why the phrase "OK, boomer" was invented.
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Old 11-12-2019, 11:08 AM
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But I can't say that I've ever really liked the Democratic party's emphasis on what amount to identity politics w.r.t. ethnicity, sexuality and socio-economic status. As an upper middle class middle-aged white man, I'm painted as the enemy in a lot of the Democratic rhetoric, and very little of what their politicians speak about has much relevance to me- the overarching message that I get is that I should vote for them out of some sense of shame or to give myself warm fuzzies for helping out the poor/gay/ethnic people. There's very little said that comes out and says "Bump- this is going to be good for YOU".
Demographically speaking, I'm exactly like you. I mean, I don't feel "shamed" into helping the climate/poor/gay/minority/women's rights issues. I am in full support of those platforms and I don't feel demonized in the least for the demographic I'm in. But maybe I've not been paying enough attention to the Democratic Party platform. Would you be kind enough to point me to where it says you and I are the enemy?
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Old 11-12-2019, 11:32 AM
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But I can't say that I've ever really liked the Democratic party's emphasis on what amount to identity politics w.r.t. ethnicity, sexuality and socio-economic status.
There is no such thing as "the Democratic party's emphasis on what amount to identity politics." "Identity politics" is just "I don't want to support equality so I want to describe it in a way that makes it sound bad."

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As an upper middle class middle-aged white man, I'm painted as the enemy in a lot of the Democratic rhetoric
Absolute nonsense. A huge number of Democrats are middle class middle-aged white men. How exactly are they "painted as the enemy"?

Quote:
and very little of what their politicians speak about has much relevance to me- the overarching message that I get is that I should vote for them out of some sense of shame or to give myself warm fuzzies for helping out the poor/gay/ethnic people. There's very little said that comes out and says "Bump- this is going to be good for YOU".
So, you're saying that justice and equality means nothing to you if someone can't tell you how it directly benefits you? You need someone to persuade you that it's good for you if people unlike you aren't being discriminated against, or oppressed, or killed by cops?

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That's not the case- it means that I'm not aligned with either extreme.
No, it means you're not willing to commit to fundamental decency and you want a way to weasel out of it to make yourself feel better about yourself.

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Demographically speaking, I'm exactly like you. I mean, I don't feel "shamed" into helping the climate/poor/gay/minority/women's rights issues. I am in full support of those platforms and I don't feel demonized in the least for the demographic I'm in. But maybe I've not been paying enough attention to the Democratic Party platform. Would you be kind enough to point me to where it says you and I are the enemy?
Yep.
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Old 11-12-2019, 11:33 AM
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...

But I can't say that I've ever really liked the Democratic party's emphasis on what amount to identity politics w.r.t. ethnicity, sexuality and socio-economic status. As an upper middle class middle-aged white man, I'm painted as the enemy in a lot of the Democratic rhetoric, ....
Can you point out actual elected Democrats or party platforms that paint us as the enemy in their rhetoric?
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Old 11-12-2019, 11:40 AM
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.... Anyway, please cite in the Democratic Party platform where the far left has taken over. ...
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... But maybe I've not been paying enough attention to the Democratic Party platform. Would you be kind enough to point me to where it says you and I are the enemy?
This fixation on the party platform as if any statement or absence there means anything is silly. It's a nonsense defense. To illustrate the point, imagine if Republicans were defending against accusations of fascism or racism with "can you show me where in the party platform it says we are fascist / hate black people?"

Last edited by HurricaneDitka; 11-12-2019 at 11:40 AM.
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Old 11-12-2019, 11:45 AM
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This fixation on the party platform as if any statement or absence there means anything is silly. It's a nonsense defense. To illustrate the point, imagine if Republicans were defending against accusations of fascism or racism with "can you show me where in the party platform it says we are fascist / hate black people?"
It's kind of hard to defend against actual racist and sexist statements and actions by elected Republicans by saying "show me where in the party platform is says we are racist and/or sexist"

On the other hand, if one believes that random morons on Twitter are "Representative of the Democratic Party", then sure, party platform would come into play.
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Old 11-12-2019, 11:49 AM
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It seems to me like you are a common-sense leftist who has bought the right-wing propagandizing that the center is much closer to them than everyone else. Or else there's some specific wedge issue that's sticking in your craw. Is it the guns, or same-sex bathrooms, or is it those awful PC people who won't let you tell fun jokes?
This. Almost every thing the OP lists are fairly standard, mainstream-left-of-center positions.
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Old 11-12-2019, 11:50 AM
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This fixation on the party platform as if any statement or absence there means anything is silly. It's a nonsense defense. To illustrate the point, imagine if Republicans were defending against accusations of fascism or racism with "can you show me where in the party platform it says we are fascist / hate black people?"
I would agree with you if the poster had said that the Democrats have their share of leftists and anti-white-male crusaders among their supporters, but the poster said that it's the Party's emphasis, and another poster has said it has been taken over.

So, care to revise your reply?
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Old 11-12-2019, 11:57 AM
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..."can you show me where in the party platform it says we are fascist / hate black people?"
Google Tucker Carlson. I'll just start there.

HD, you may not be a racist. But the party you support sure as shit is. You may want to think about that.
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Old 11-12-2019, 12:10 PM
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I wish you were able to take pride in not being redundant in your thread titles.

I don't have any use for the MAGAbots or Berniebots either. Both sets take their Dear Leader as being infallible. But at least Berniebots still nominally believe in democracy.

I dislike the purity police as well. I think there is room in the Democratic Party for anti-abortion voters, gun nuts, and fiscal conservatives. We can't be saying that if you don't subscribe to 100% of our beliefs, you can't be one of us. We've become tribal, and that's unfortunate.
The purity police are still mainly just a loud minority on social media. They’re similar to those loud ones on college campuses who drown out everyone who isn’t in lockstep with them. And that’s nothing new, it’s been going on since the 1960s at least.

But yeah, the ‘Go big or go home’ types on Twitter get annoying. It’s not as if St Elizabeth the Divine will just waive her magic wand and get all of her platform through Congress.
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  #38  
Old 11-12-2019, 12:21 PM
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This. Almost every thing the OP lists are fairly standard, mainstream-left-of-center positions.
Am I crazy, but didn't we just have this topic a few months ago? Some new user popped up, claimed they were centrist, and then posted a bunch of views that were clearly liberal?
  #39  
Old 11-12-2019, 12:22 PM
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Can you point out actual elected Democrats or party platforms that paint us as the enemy in their rhetoric?
It's not merely the platforms and elected officials. It's the whole enchilada- the ones who don't get elected, and also the state/local officials who are often much more extreme than the national-level party candidates.

More importantly, it's the people who go out saying this stuff who aren't running for office, but who identify as Democrats and who the party doesn't repudiate who convey this message.

Another way to look at it is that every time someone who identifies as liberal/Democratic says "OK Boomer", they're conveying the message that they dislike the elderly, and if the party doesn't check that, they're tacitly endorsing that message and allowing those people to be pushed further from the party. Same thing for every discussion of white privilege that goes off the rails into finger-pointing, and anything along those lines.

Basically the party's doing a poor job of keeping the SJW/"Woke" crowd in check, or at the very least, saying "While we admire your zeal, the Democratic party doesn't believe in certain aspects of your ideology and prefers a more inclusive approach".

Look at it this way... if you're a middle class middle aged white man, what's in the Democratic platform and rhetoric for YOU? Yes, you may want justice, and equality and all that stuff, but what's in it specifically for you? That stuff is mostly academic for you, sitting on the top of the heap, so to speak. Cops don't harass you, you are part of an economically powerful block, nobody discriminates against you, etc... Are the Democrats going to lower my taxes? Subsidize my kids' college? Probably not- I probably make too much for them to want to help me with any of those things.

That's the point I'm trying to make- in the public perception, there's not much that's directly beneficial. Meanwhile the Republicans at least claim that they want to lower taxes, which is idiotic, but at least a direct "benefit".
  #40  
Old 11-12-2019, 12:27 PM
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Look at it this way... if you're a middle class middle aged white man, what's in the Democratic platform and rhetoric for YOU? Yes, you may want justice, and equality and all that stuff, but what's in it specifically for you?
Universal health care; cheaper prescription drugs; better environment; higher minimum wage for your kids when they get jobs; better labor rights and protections; free or lower-cost college for your kids (depending on which candidate); more robust social safety net if things go wrong for you; and a lot more. There are tons of things in the Democratic party platform that are meant to help pretty much everyone aside from the very rich (and even some things, like environmental policies, that are meant to benefit everyone, including the very rich).
  #41  
Old 11-12-2019, 12:29 PM
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Trump may be a dick but his politics is bog standard republican/conservative.
Sure, let's just sit back and reminisce about all the times that Reagan bent over to take it from the Russians.... as gracefully summed-up in his famous and pithy quote on how he intended to proceed with Soviet nuclear disarmament proposals: "Trust."

Last edited by Ravenman; 11-12-2019 at 12:30 PM. Reason: Extraneous words from the quote are omitted
  #42  
Old 11-12-2019, 12:38 PM
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I'm not just a middle of the roader, I'm a middle of the road extremist.
  #43  
Old 11-12-2019, 12:50 PM
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It's not merely the platforms and elected officials. It's the whole enchilada- the ones who don't get elected, and also the state/local officials who are often much more extreme than the national-level party candidates.

More importantly, it's the people who go out saying this stuff who aren't running for office, but who identify as Democrats and who the party doesn't repudiate who convey this message.

Another way to look at it is that every time someone who identifies as liberal/Democratic says "OK Boomer", they're conveying the message that they dislike the elderly, and if the party doesn't check that, they're tacitly endorsing that message and allowing those people to be pushed further from the party. Same thing for every discussion of white privilege that goes off the rails into finger-pointing, and anything along those lines.

Basically the party's doing a poor job of keeping the SJW/"Woke" crowd in check, or at the very least, saying "While we admire your zeal, the Democratic party doesn't believe in certain aspects of your ideology and prefers a more inclusive approach".

Look at it this way... if you're a middle class middle aged white man, what's in the Democratic platform and rhetoric for YOU? Yes, you may want justice, and equality and all that stuff, but what's in it specifically for you? That stuff is mostly academic for you, sitting on the top of the heap, so to speak. Cops don't harass you, you are part of an economically powerful block, nobody discriminates against you, etc... Are the Democrats going to lower my taxes? Subsidize my kids' college? Probably not- I probably make too much for them to want to help me with any of those things.

That's the point I'm trying to make- in the public perception, there's not much that's directly beneficial. Meanwhile the Republicans at least claim that they want to lower taxes, which is idiotic, but at least a direct "benefit".
iiandyiiii already answered your direct question, but I would put more stress on environmental protection than his answer did -- it benefits everyone, with cleaner air and water, for example. Do you agree that benefits you?

As for the rest of your post, I'm not sure what you want the Democratic Party to do -- every time some random person on Twitter says, "I'm a Democrat and I hate white males", are they supposed to try to have them banned or something? My issue with your original post and this one is that you're painting the Democratic Party and their elected officials as extremist and then, when asked for evidence, essentially pointing to randos on Twitter.

State and local officials come in all shapes and sizes -- I imagine some dog catcher who ran as a Democrat may have said something offensive sometime, but since it's so prevalent, I'm sure you have some examples, at least at the state level. I'd like to judge for myself if I should feel shunned as a white male. I'm not really interested for cites from the local level, though.

There have been many examples of state-level Republicans saying and posting unbelievably shameful things, so I'm sure there are state-level Dems who do the same, and look forward to your cites.
  #44  
Old 11-12-2019, 12:59 PM
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Not from the OP but from other posts.
Criticism of black people are not racist. They are human like everyone else. Just because you are black doesn't mean that you are immune from criticism. That's not racist. Antonio Brown gives black people a bad name and it is the truth.
  #45  
Old 11-12-2019, 01:00 PM
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Another way to look at it is that every time someone who identifies as liberal/Democratic says "OK Boomer", they're conveying the message that they dislike the elderly, and if the party doesn't check that, they're tacitly endorsing that message and allowing those people to be pushed further from the party. Same thing for every discussion of white privilege that goes off the rails into finger-pointing, and anything along those lines.

Basically the party's doing a poor job of keeping the SJW/"Woke" crowd in check, or at the very least, saying "While we admire your zeal, the Democratic party doesn't believe in certain aspects of your ideology and prefers a more inclusive approach".

Look at it this way... if you're a middle class middle aged white man, what's in the Democratic platform and rhetoric for YOU? Yes, you may want justice, and equality and all that stuff, but what's in it specifically for you? That stuff is mostly academic for you, sitting on the top of the heap, so to speak. Cops don't harass you, you are part of an economically powerful block, nobody discriminates against you, etc... Are the Democrats going to lower my taxes? Subsidize my kids' college? Probably not- I probably make too much for them to want to help me with any of those things.

That's the point I'm trying to make- in the public perception, there's not much that's directly beneficial. Meanwhile the Republicans at least claim that they want to lower taxes, which is idiotic, but at least a direct "benefit".
If you want to vote Republican, none of us will know, and you will find yourself finally at peace to the extent that you voted in your own self interests.
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  #46  
Old 11-12-2019, 01:02 PM
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I am a proud middle of the roader.

I am sick and tired of ideological purity. I hate it.


Since the post-2014 US midterm elections and the rise of the ascendant American left with Bernie Sanders' insurgent 2016 primary bid against the Democratic establishment favorite Hillary Clinton, who lost to Donald Trump, leftists online, especially the activist leftist Twitter, demonizes those in the center. Those with a center view on taxation, crime, etc. are threatened and called names online. You are a "bootlicker", "racist", "fascist". And they wonder why people in general despise the far left.

The right, the Trumpian right specifically, calls you a "communist", "traitor" if you don't align politically with the Dear Leader. You are a pawn for "Hillary/Obama/Holder".

I am sick of it.

I hate purity.

Let me tell you about centrism.

Let me tell you about middle of the roadism.

I have conservative and liberal views on certain issues.

I believe that federal and state income taxes should be raised higher on the wealthy.

I believe in funding schools and transportation.

I believe in a national defense that is not the world's police, but strong, equipped and agile to deal with the challenges facing America.

I believe that America has race and social problems that requires reparations for slavery through a system conducted by the IRS to invest money in black ancestors of slavery and into communities that truly will make an impact, not throwing money at the problem.

I believe that they are good police officers overall. The bad and corrupt police officers that kill unarmed people or are poorly trained, or have racial bias should be jailed and fired. I believe that community-police relations and fostering mutual respect between the two is better than people saying "Shoot the cops, kill the cops, punch the cops".

I believe that people should marry who they love and leave it to that.

I am a middle of the roader. I am not a communist. I am not a fascist.

Most Americans of all races are middle of the road.

We are the exhausted majority and we are tired of being bullied by the extremes that get a larger voice than all the others.

We are tired of Vox, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, Breitbart and Jim Jordan dictating what politics is and isn't.

The left and right does not have all the answers to everything.

Don't tell me that I have no conviction.

I have the conviction of realism and reason. I know what I know in my heart.


https://www.vox.com/policy-and-polit...n-david-brooks

https://www.quora.com/Why-do-people-dislike-centrists

https://hiddentribes.us/profiles
I hate to tell you this, but every one of the things you mentioned is now an attribute of the "radical left wing".

Like many, you have stood still while the reactionary right pulled the whole political discourse rug out from under you.

You may be exhausted, but you are an exhausted liberal. Join the multitude.
  #47  
Old 11-12-2019, 01:10 PM
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I'm not just a middle of the roader, I'm a middle of the road extremist.
Like one of those militant pacifists, eh?
  #48  
Old 11-12-2019, 01:16 PM
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Criticism of black people are not racist. They are human like everyone else. Just because you are black doesn't mean that you are immune from criticism. That's not racist. Antonio Brown gives black people a bad name and it is the truth.
Dude, that's not even a statement that can be evaluated factually, much less "the truth." What is shows is that you think people stand in for the social group they're identified with, and that poor behavior by one person speaks to every member of that social group.

When you're acting that way about racial groups--especially in a way that reinforces centuries of oppression--that's textbook racism.

But this racism on your part doesn't give white people a bad name, because you're not speaking for white people.

I encourage you to look at what you said and evaluate it fairly, without being defensive. If you can say, "Okay, I see what you're saying," and not do that, you've done good. But too often people get defensive and end up doubling down, and that wouldn't be good.
  #49  
Old 11-12-2019, 01:24 PM
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Criticism of black people are not racist. They are human like everyone else. Just because you are black doesn't mean that you are immune from criticism. That's not racist. Antonio Brown gives black people a bad name and it is the truth.
The fact you are criticizing him for being black is the racist part. Why couldn't you have just said that he gives sportsballers a bad name? (I have no idea who the hell he is)
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  #50  
Old 11-12-2019, 01:24 PM
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Antonio Brown gives black people a bad name and it is the truth.
So, you choose to believe that Antonio Brown is an asshole because he is black and not because he may have neurological issues due to his career?
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