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Old 07-17-2012, 01:25 PM
Gangster Octopus Gangster Octopus is offline
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The Boy Scouts Still Thinking of the Children

Well, the Boy Scouts after a thorough review of its policies have decided to keep their anti-gay policies.

Whew! Clearly if the Mormon Scouts....I mean Boy Scouts, allowed the gays to be part of their organization then who knows what evils might befall our children. And when I say who knows, I mean "who knows", because the decision making was done in secret and no real explanation was really given. But I am assuming it is to protect them from, you know becoming gay or worse being a victim of gay sexual predators that run rampant in the minds of wingnuts.

Or maybe they were just concerned about adding interior design and Musical Theater Appreciation merit badges. I keed! I keed!

Last edited by tomndebb; 07-17-2012 at 08:24 PM. Reason: Fixed link tags
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Old 07-17-2012, 01:44 PM
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Our scout troop has an unofficial "Diversity" Merit Badge. Yes, it's got a rainbow on it.

The Boy Scouts have always had plenty of "diversity" at the local level. No problem ignoring the handful of board members who are fascists. For decades, now.
  #3  
Old 07-17-2012, 01:49 PM
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Link not work?
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Old 07-17-2012, 01:50 PM
Ogre Ogre is offline
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I'm an Eagle Scout and a Brotherhood member of the Order of the Arrow.

Fuck the Boy Scouts.

ETA: http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/20...y-banning-gays

Last edited by Ogre; 07-17-2012 at 01:51 PM.
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Old 07-17-2012, 01:52 PM
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Link not work?
I blame the uncloseted-but-awesome Scoutmaster we had back in the 70s...

And the extra %22http// in the address. Took it out, works fine.

Last edited by digs; 07-17-2012 at 01:53 PM. Reason: Hey, Ogre, we're in the same club...on all three counts.
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Old 07-17-2012, 01:53 PM
Maus Magill Maus Magill is offline
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Originally Posted by Gangster Octopus View Post
Well, the Boy Scouts after a thorough review of its policies have decided to keep their anti-gay policies.

Whew! Clearly if the Mormon Scouts....I mean Boy Scouts, allowed the gays to be part of their organization then who knows what evils might befall our children. And when I say who knows, I mean "who knows", because the decision making was done in secret and no real explanation was really given. But I am assuming it is to protect them from, you know becoming gay or worse being a victim of gay sexual predators that run rampant in the minds of wingnuts.

Or maybe they were just concerned about adding interior design and Musical Theater Appreciation merit badges. I keed! I keed!
I've said it before, and I will say it again. The BSA's policy of excluding gays and atheists violates The Scout Law.

A Scout is Helpful - Excluding kids who need friends and support is not Helpful.

A Scout is Friendly - Exclusion is never friendly.

A Scout is Courteous - Exclusion is not courteous.

A Scout is Kind - Withholding friendship and support to those who need it is not kind.

A Scout is Brave - Cravenly keeping a policy of exclusion in exchange for the LDS money is not brave. If they were to follow the Girl Scout's example and turn it down, that would be brave.

A Scout is Reverent - Reverence goes both way. An atheist can be reverent to a theist's beliefs, just as a theist can be reverent towards an atheist lack thereof. It just requires bravery.
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Old 07-17-2012, 02:10 PM
Rhythmdvl Rhythmdvl is offline
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My kid is going to miss out on a right of passage because of the gay agenda

You bastards. You unholy, cursed, buggeryboos and your cursed existence. Because you dare exist, no, wait, not just exist, but because you want to participate in everyday life, my kid cant join the Boy Scouts. No Cub Scout Jamboree, no Pinewood Derby Race for him, no Blue and Gold banquet, no Weblows Order of the Arrow, no merit badges, no Scout Camp, no learning and experiencing the great range of joys and pains that is scouting.


Im surprisingly ripped up inside. I honestly had such grand expectations for him, though I didnt' really recognize them until I read the news story earlier today. Not aspirations that hed necessarily go on to Eagle or whatever, just that hed get to participate and taste some of the greatness of being a boy. I know I can take him camping on my own, teach him all sorts of things ... but no Scouting? Theres an emptiness there. Yes, hell be trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean, reverent. But it wont mean the same thing.

Heck, I could have gotten his agnostic (or, what I assume to be agnostic) ass through. I kinda get the whole spiritual side of things. Maybe that makes me a hypocrite and this is several years too late. But whatever.

Im so, so sorry son. You wont be joining the Scouts. Because those people just want to exist.
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Old 07-17-2012, 02:15 PM
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The Boy Scouts have always had plenty of "diversity" at the local level. No problem ignoring the handful of board members who are fascists. For decades, now.
In my small experience of the world, scouting enthusiasm was positively correlated with gayness, in fact.
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Old 07-17-2012, 02:15 PM
elucidator elucidator is offline
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The Girl Scouts said no? No shit! Well, I reckon I'm about to buy me some damn cookies! Not gonna eat 'em, taste like s'mores made with cardboard and library paste, but I'm damn sure buying some.

You know, hadn't given much thought to the Mormons, outside of a little good-natured derision, but lately they're starting to get on my nerves...
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Old 07-17-2012, 02:22 PM
Ogre Ogre is offline
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Originally Posted by Rhythmdvl View Post
My kid is going to miss out on a right of passage because of the gay agenda

You bastards. You unholy, cursed, buggeryboos and your cursed existence. Because you dare exist, no, wait, not just exist, but because you want to participate in everyday life, my kid cant join the Boy Scouts. No Cub Scout Jamboree, no Pinewood Derby Race for him, no Blue and Gold banquet, no Weblows Order of the Arrow, no merit badges, no Scout Camp, no learning and experiencing the great range of joys and pains that is scouting.


Im surprisingly ripped up inside. I honestly had such grand expectations for him, though I didnt' really recognize them until I read the news story earlier today. Not aspirations that hed necessarily go on to Eagle or whatever, just that hed get to participate and taste some of the greatness of being a boy. I know I can take him camping on my own, teach him all sorts of things ... but no Scouting? Theres an emptiness there. Yes, hell be trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean, reverent. But it wont mean the same thing.

Heck, I could have gotten his agnostic (or, what I assume to be agnostic) ass through. I kinda get the whole spiritual side of things. Maybe that makes me a hypocrite and this is several years too late. But whatever.

Im so, so sorry son. You wont be joining the Scouts. Because those people just want to exist.
This is surprisingly hurtful to me as well. My brothers are both Eagle Scouts. My dad was our committee chairman. It's a family thing. We all had years of great times in the Scouts. I can't tell you how many truly useful outdoor skills I've learned because of Boy Scouts. And now my son will never have those experiences.
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Old 07-17-2012, 02:39 PM
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This is surprisingly hurtful to me as well. My brothers are both Eagle Scouts. My dad was our committee chairman. It's a family thing. We all had years of great times in the Scouts. I can't tell you how many truly useful outdoor skills I've learned because of Boy Scouts. And now my son will never have those experiences.
My father lost his father at an early age, and the Scouts were very important to him back in the '30s. He kept up with it - he was the first Scoutmaster of a troop at the UN (no scout is reverent there!) he founded a troop, was active at district level, and got a Silver Beaver. I made it to Life and was a senior patrol leader and JASM. Now I'm glad that I only have daughters.
I suspect troops in the Bay Area don't have restrictions internally, but they could still get into trouble if found out.

I blame the move from New Jersey to New Mexico myself.
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Old 07-17-2012, 02:39 PM
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The Girl Scouts said no? No shit! Well, I reckon I'm about to buy me some damn cookies! Not gonna eat 'em, taste like s'mores made with cardboard and library paste, but I'm damn sure buying some.
You can send them to me.


Oh, the mint cardboard ones please.
  #13  
Old 07-17-2012, 02:46 PM
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It's possible that your communities will have some sort of nonBSA organization you could look into. Worst comes to worst, if you could get together with other parents who aren't interested in a discriminatory organization either, you could do scouty things as an informal den of your own.
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Old 07-17-2012, 02:48 PM
Algher Algher is offline
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This is resonating across the Scout boards I read. Many of us were hoping that the committee would come out (hah!) in favor of Local Control - where your sponsoring organization could make their own decision. With Episcopalians and Presbyterians both sponsoring Troops AND accepting gays and lesbians - the BSA is also not following Reverent.

I will be staying in Scouting, and being the loud voice at the local level fighting for a change. Please note that many of us wearing the shorts and Oscar De La Renta shirts do NOT agree with this. Sometimes we can be ID'd by our Scouting For All knot (illegal, but worn at times regardless).

In my Troop, the boys have learned that I don't tolerate any "that's gay" language either. The smart ones have read between the lines and have figured out that I don't agree with the BSA policy either. The local council knows my thoughts, emphasized when I stopped my annual donations to the Friends of Scouting.

Bastards in Irving Texas and their bullshit "diverse" committee.

Last edited by Algher; 07-17-2012 at 02:49 PM.
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Old 07-17-2012, 03:07 PM
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Fuck the Boy Scouts.
That's precisely what they don't want to happen
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Old 07-17-2012, 03:10 PM
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I'd be inclined to leave it to the kid, its about the right size of moral quandry for a developing mind. Stay in, and work for change? Refuse to participate? Worth a merit badge, in my book.
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Old 07-17-2012, 03:18 PM
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Just one more curse of living in a theocracy.
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Old 07-17-2012, 03:30 PM
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Well, I'm pleased to note that Scouts Canada has no such policy or belief, so if, at the appropriate age, Junior is keen to join I can go ahead and sign him up.

This story makes me bummed for little boys in the US though.
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Old 07-17-2012, 03:38 PM
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My kid is going to miss out on a right of passage because of the gay agenda

You bastards. You unholy, cursed, buggeryboos and your cursed existence. Because you dare exist, no, wait, not just exist, but because you want to participate in everyday life, my kid cant join the Boy Scouts. No Cub Scout Jamboree, no Pinewood Derby Race for him, no Blue and Gold banquet, no Weblows Order of the Arrow, no merit badges, no Scout Camp, no learning and experiencing the great range of joys and pains that is scouting.


Im surprisingly ripped up inside. I honestly had such grand expectations for him, though I didnt' really recognize them until I read the news story earlier today. Not aspirations that hed necessarily go on to Eagle or whatever, just that hed get to participate and taste some of the greatness of being a boy....
If you acknowledge a bunch of benefits, why don't you let him join? Just tell him that you don't agree with all aspects of their mission statement or whatever. Consider it a teachable moment. I'm sure there are atheist parents who let their kids join and tell them to gloss over the "reverent" part.
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Old 07-17-2012, 03:42 PM
Ogre Ogre is offline
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If you acknowledge a bunch of benefits, why don't you let him join? Just tell him that you don't agree with all aspects of their mission statement or whatever. Consider it a teachable moment. I'm sure there are atheist parents who let their kids join and tell them to gloss over the "reverent" part.
Because now they're a hate group, as far as I'm concerned.
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Old 07-17-2012, 03:44 PM
ladyfoxfyre ladyfoxfyre is offline
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I wonder if there is enough general distaste for the policy for some other non-sanctioned scouting organization to start, taking with it all the people who don't support the policy (and their money).
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Old 07-17-2012, 03:45 PM
Algher Algher is offline
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Because now they're a hate group, as far as I'm concerned.
This is not a new thing - every since the Dale decision it has been official, but even before that gays and lesbians could not be open leaders.

This is just the most recent statement in a response to an attempt to make changes. Two members of the board have gone on public record as wanting a change, and the lesbian mom in Cub Scouts that got kicked out recently after someone narced on her brought it back into the news.
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Old 07-17-2012, 03:46 PM
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I don't know. When I was a kid my parents refused to let me participate in various common activities because of their beliefs/politics/agenda/etc. It didn't scar me for life or anything, but I did miss out.
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Old 07-17-2012, 03:48 PM
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Originally Posted by divemaster
If you acknowledge a bunch of benefits, why don't you let him join? Just tell him that you don't agree with all aspects of their mission statement or whatever. Consider it a teachable moment. I'm sure there are atheist parents who let their kids join and tell them to gloss over the "reverent" part.
Hope that he doesn't turn out atheist and get kicked out entirely for being honest, then.

Last edited by fluiddruid; 07-17-2012 at 03:49 PM.
  #25  
Old 07-17-2012, 03:48 PM
Tom Scud Tom Scud is offline
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Camp Fire USA is now coed (though it started out as Camp Fire Girls).

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As the first nonsectarian, interracial organization for girls in the United States, Camp Fire takes pride in its long-standing commitment to providing fun programs and services to all children and families in America. We are inclusive, open to every person in the communities we serve, welcoming children, youth and adults regardless of race, religion, socioeconomic status, disability, sexual orientation or other aspect of diversity.
Just sayin.
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Old 07-17-2012, 03:55 PM
Algher Algher is offline
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I wonder if there is enough general distaste for the policy for some other non-sanctioned scouting organization to start, taking with it all the people who don't support the policy (and their money).
The Boy Scouts have a brand that is hard to beat. Campfire is out there, and Spiral Scouts tried to get going to and is successful in some areas. There is also the Baden Powell Scouts for people who think that the BSA has gotten too wimpy and is no longer strong enough outdoors oriented (I tend to agree on that - but I can manage it within my unit).

The challenge is that Eagle is still a very strong, positive brand.
The US Military gives you an extra rank when you enlist. It is a point on college applications. etc. etc. etc. This is why I am fighting from within - the bigots will NOT chase me out, but in the meantime I have to tell people that I don't support this policy.
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Old 07-17-2012, 04:01 PM
Rhythmdvl Rhythmdvl is offline
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As to it not being a new thing, it's the confrontation with having the Dudeling that makes a difference. Hard to describe (being new to it and all), but the question of what I would/wouldn't do in the situation had very little teeth and very little hold on my imagination. Yes, if directly asked I could have had a conversation and could have felt the hypothetical, but like many other possible choices out there it really wasn't all that close to home.

Don't Cub Scouts join in elementary school? Old enough to know that 'fag' is wrong, but not old enough to understand the implications of the moral choice. I'm not even close to the time when that's actually going to be upon me, but I can't imagine that seven or eight is old enough to make such moral choices.

And it is a moral choice. I can appreciate fighting from within, and as I said upthread the generalized agnosticism and okay with the 'reverence' bit may make me a hypocrite. But we all draw lines somewhere. I'm sorry if it's a bit cliche, but if the decision came down that it's a whites-only organization, the "no, that's not something we're going to patronize" decision would be the same.

Checking age requirements, it looks like there are four to seven years left for them to change their policies.



ETA: The whole race analogy above was not meant in any way to impugn someone who made a different choice than I.

Last edited by Rhythmdvl; 07-17-2012 at 04:03 PM.
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Old 07-17-2012, 04:20 PM
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The challenge is that Eagle is still a very strong, positive brand.
The US Military gives you an extra rank when you enlist. It is a point on college applications. etc. etc. etc. This is why I am fighting from within - the bigots will NOT chase me out, but in the meantime I have to tell people that I don't support this policy.
Screw changing from within. We need to change this bullshit.
  #29  
Old 07-17-2012, 05:52 PM
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If you acknowledge a bunch of benefits, why don't you let him join? Just tell him that you don't agree with all aspects of their mission statement or whatever. Consider it a teachable moment. I'm sure there are atheist parents who let their kids join and tell them to gloss over the "reverent" part.
I'm the mother of two. My daughter is in Girl Scouts and I'm a Girl Scout leader. I did not permit my son to join Boy Scouts. Scouting is a club that has, as its primary objective, instilling values and building character. Hypocrisy is not a value I want to foster in my agnostic "I'd have to pledge something I don't believe in" son. I don't want him to learn "hey, its a great club, except for that whole discrimination thing." The values I want him to learn are honesty, openness, and inclusiveness - values policies the Boy Scouts have contradict (or he'd need to personally ignore to join), in addition to other great values the Boy Scouts does continue to teach.
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Old 07-17-2012, 06:28 PM
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This is a tough call. Ignorance is the issue here. Apparently, the BSA equal Gays with boys as targets. Pedophiles <> Homosexuals.

I think I told the story of NAMBLA a while back. Boy Scouts are a target, but NAMBLA members are not homosexuals, they are pedophiles.

The BSA supported a rule but targeted the incorrect group. Ignorance reigns supreme

Last edited by dngnb8; 07-17-2012 at 06:28 PM.
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Old 07-17-2012, 06:35 PM
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Well, I'm pleased to note that Scouts Canada has no such policy or belief, so if, at the appropriate age, Junior is keen to join I can go ahead and sign him up.

This story makes me bummed for little boys in the US though.
Same as Australia (jeez the similarities between Aus and Canada still continue to amaze me), I am glad that we are not so church focused as the BSA is. BSA IMO has lost sight of what Scouting is about and seems to have been taken over by religious groups who are pushing their own agendas.
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Old 07-17-2012, 06:39 PM
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I'm the mother of two. My daughter is in Girl Scouts and I'm a Girl Scout leader. I did not permit my son to join Boy Scouts. Scouting is a club that has, as its primary objective, instilling values and building character. Hypocrisy is not a value I want to foster in my agnostic "I'd have to pledge something I don't believe in" son. I don't want him to learn "hey, its a great club, except for that whole discrimination thing." The values I want him to learn are honesty, openness, and inclusiveness - values policies the Boy Scouts have contradict (or he'd need to personally ignore to join), in addition to other great values the Boy Scouts does continue to teach.
I would look at the local level and really see what the impact is especially if it is sponsored by a progressive church or other non religious group, sometimes things are not as wish them to be at the board level but that does not rule out being involved at the local level. yes some will say you are supporting a hate group [really WTF] but I don't see it that way. Scouting is a great education and sometimes change comes from within.
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Old 07-17-2012, 06:50 PM
BrainGlutton BrainGlutton is offline
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. . . and a Brotherhood member of the Order of the Arrow.
And this is not a gay organization?!
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Old 07-17-2012, 07:23 PM
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And this is not a gay organization?!
They is nothing gay about a organization that requires you to endure ritual hazing, sleeping in the woods without any gear with a bunch of men and not saying a word to anyone.

Well unless you've watched that porno.
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Old 07-17-2012, 07:43 PM
FoieGrasIsEvil FoieGrasIsEvil is offline
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My kid is going to miss out on a right of passage because of the gay agenda

You bastards. You unholy, cursed, buggeryboos and your cursed existence. Because you dare exist, no, wait, not just exist, but because you want to participate in everyday life, my kid can’t join the Boy Scouts. No Cub Scout Jamboree, no Pinewood Derby Race for him, no Blue and Gold banquet, no Weblows Order of the Arrow, no merit badges, no Scout Camp, no learning and experiencing the great range of joys and pains that is scouting.


I’m surprisingly ripped up inside. I honestly had such grand expectations for him, though I didnt' really recognize them until I read the news story earlier today. Not aspirations that he’d necessarily go on to Eagle or whatever, just that he’d get to participate and taste some of the greatness of being a boy. I know I can take him camping on my own, teach him all sorts of things ... but no Scouting? There’s an emptiness there. Yes, he’ll be trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean, reverent. But it won’t mean the same thing.

Heck, I could have gotten his agnostic (or, what I assume to be agnostic) ass through. I kinda get the whole spiritual side of things. Maybe that makes me a hypocrite and this is several years too late. But whatever.

I’m so, so sorry son. You won’t be joining the Scouts. Because those people just want to exist.
My sons are both scouts and none of what you describe exists within their pack. They are not deprived and methinks you are overtstating matters.

I have to ask, at the risk of being shot down in flames: what is wrong with not allowing overt gays into the scouting ranks as leaders? Isn't this a prevention measure against the Jerry Sandusky's of the world? Wouldn't you be pissed a million times over if a gay scout leader molested your child?

I am not saying that many or any would do that, but...wouldn't you want to be certain? Doesn't this smack of gay catholic priests and the trust that was afforded them when anyone could see if they cared to look that abuse was rampant and condoned? Isn't this just a case of the BSA protecting themselves from such matters?

Last edited by FoieGrasIsEvil; 07-17-2012 at 07:43 PM.
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Old 07-17-2012, 07:48 PM
Ferret Herder Ferret Herder is offline
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I have to ask, at the risk of being shot down in flames: what is wrong with not allowing overt gays into the scouting ranks as leaders? Isn't this a prevention measure against the Jerry Sandusky's of the world? Wouldn't you be pissed a million times over if a gay scout leader molested your child?
You really need to label your parody better; I almost missed it except for the bolded statement.
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Old 07-17-2012, 07:51 PM
FoieGrasIsEvil FoieGrasIsEvil is offline
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You really need to label your parody better; I almost missed it except for the bolded statement.
I try, and I keed because I wish to be converted to teh ghey. Oh, and because I love.
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Old 07-17-2012, 07:52 PM
Ferret Herder Ferret Herder is offline
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I try, and I keed because I wish to be converted to teh ghey. Oh, and because I love.
You're just in it for the toaster... oh wait, I think the "convert-er" gets that.
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Old 07-17-2012, 08:01 PM
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The US Military gives you an extra rank when you enlist. It is a point on college applications. etc. etc. etc.


I had to read that sentence twice, to be sure. I am agog to learn this. Truly? An extra rank? A point on a college admission? Seriously? For being a Boy Scout!

What if your family didn't live where there was a troop? Tough darts, I suppose.

Wow! I had no idea.

I never cease to be amazed at the things a person can learn around here!
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Old 07-17-2012, 08:03 PM
Algher Algher is offline
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Originally Posted by elbows View Post


I had to read that sentence twice, to be sure. I am agog to learn this. Truly? An extra rank? A point on a college admission? Seriously? For being a Boy Scout!

What if your family didn't live where there was a troop? Tough darts, I suppose.

Wow! I had no idea.

I never cease to be amazed at the things a person can learn around here!
For Eagle Scout - not "just" Boy Scout. Though some schools now look for Eagle PLUS Senior Patrol Leader (senior boy in the Troop).
  #41  
Old 07-17-2012, 08:26 PM
moejoe moejoe is offline
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Hmm, I was a Blue Bird (that's the itty bitty Camp Fire Girls) and then a Sea Scout (which is like other scouts except co-ed and with boats instead of tents). I don't know if Sea Scouts is just a local thing, but there must be other organizations for young ones to learn team work and life skills in almost every community, right? There's no need to join a homophobic organization if you don't want to.
  #42  
Old 07-17-2012, 08:27 PM
Smapti Smapti is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FoieGrasIsWvil
I have to ask, at the risk of being shot down in flames: what is wrong with not allowing overt gays into the scouting ranks as leaders? Isn't this a prevention measure against the Jerry Sandusky's of the world?
Jerry Sandusky wasn't an "overt gay", so having such a policy would have done absolutely nothing to prevent his crimes.
  #43  
Old 07-17-2012, 08:39 PM
billfish678 billfish678 is offline
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This brings up an interesting delima. When do you say "fuck this shit I am outa here" or instead "fuck this shit and I am gonna stay and fight till you kick my ass out or you quit being assholes" ?

While IMO either one is valid, automatically going for one or the other isn't the way to go.

An interesting life lesson for sure.
  #44  
Old 07-17-2012, 08:49 PM
Algher Algher is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moejoe View Post
Hmm, I was a Blue Bird (that's the itty bitty Camp Fire Girls) and then a Sea Scout (which is like other scouts except co-ed and with boats instead of tents). I don't know if Sea Scouts is just a local thing, but there must be other organizations for young ones to learn team work and life skills in almost every community, right? There's no need to join a homophobic organization if you don't want to.
Sea Scouts is a coed Venturing organization (age 14 - 21) that is part of the Boy Scouts of America in the US. The same restrictions on adult leadership applies to the Sea Scouts as it does to any other Boy Scout organization (Boy Scouts, Cub Scouts, Sea Scouts, Explorer Scouts and Venturers).

Note that this only officially applies to registered adult volunteers - people who sign the paperwork and are officially permitted to wear the uniform. There is no official prohibition on a boy who is gay being a Scout, and in some Troops that boy could probably earn Eagle as long as it was not trumpeted about to where the local Council found out (and the Council is who processes the paperwork).

The Org Chart:

Boy Scouts of America
Council e.g. Cecil County Council
District
Chartered Organization e.g. The Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster, Legion Hall 666
Unit e.g. Troop 666, Pack 666, Crew 666, Ship 666

Now when an adult signs up, they sign a line saying that they agree to follow the rules of the BSA. This means no gays and no atheists. The application is counter signed by the Chartered Org and the Committee Chair of the unit. The BSA runs a criminal background check and if you pass you gain the right to be a registered adult leader and wear the uniform.

The Chartered Org can make any decision they want to. There are Mormon only units with only Mormons as adult leaders. The Catholics have the same. Some units will not register a woman as a Scout leader, even though the BSA started allowing that in the 80s. If a unit doesn't want you because you are just icky in general - that is their choice.

However - on the issues of Atheists and Gays - units have no choice. If someone tells on you, and you are an open atheist or gay - then the BSA will not allow you to be a registered adult leader. Lots of units have both, and get away with it, because nobody tells on them. In the case of the lesbian mom this year - someone narced. The unit wanted to keep her as the leader for the 1st graders - but the BSA said that she could not remain a registered leader.

What many of us are fighting for is the right to let the chartered organization decide if they want to accept gays and lesbians as adult leaders, the same way other units choose when and how women can be some types of adult leaders. This is known internally as local control, and it is what most of us expect to get passed in the next 10 years (we hope). We were hoping that the committee would push for further research into local control, instead of just killing it once again for another year.
  #45  
Old 07-17-2012, 08:53 PM
Algher Algher is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billfish678 View Post
This brings up an interesting delima. When do you say "fuck this shit I am outa here" or instead "fuck this shit and I am gonna stay and fight till you kick my ass out or you quit being assholes" ?

While IMO either one is valid, automatically going for one or the other isn't the way to go.

An interesting life lesson for sure.
In my case - my quitting would only serve as an example to a small group of boys for a brief period of time. Worse, I would lose the ability to help a lot of them along the path of life.

Staying in, however, allows me to be a thorn in the side of those who want this issue to go away. I can do more on the inside, than if I left the organization.

I know plenty of Eagles who won't enroll their sons due to the discrimination - and I totally respect it. I just think that I can do more on the inside.
  #46  
Old 07-17-2012, 09:01 PM
elbows elbows is offline
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So what are you doing then?

Letter writing? Speaking up? Only when asked directly? I'm just curious, what all this, 'working from the inside', amounts to, is all.

Is it actively doing something? Is it staying in, with the hope that you'll be able to gentle guide change? Or is it more? Some clarification would be nice.
  #47  
Old 07-17-2012, 09:02 PM
billfish678 billfish678 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Algher View Post
In my case - my quitting would only serve as an example to a small group of boys for a brief period of time. Worse, I would lose the ability to help a lot of them along the path of life.

Staying in, however, allows me to be a thorn in the side.
Good for you!

As I said, its not an easy answer either way...but thanks to you for doing good.
  #48  
Old 07-17-2012, 09:14 PM
Algher Algher is offline
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Speaking up at Council meetings.
I send two pennies with a letter during the fund raising part of the year.
Zero tolerance for anti-gay comments by adults or youth in my unit.

Not enough, but simply being known as someone who openly disagrees has changed the tone at many a Camporee discussion.

I'm not claiming that I am going to change Irving, TX - but I can make it so that nobody who knows me can claim that all leaders are in agreement.

Most of us want local control so that we can go back to our units and just keep on doing what we have always done - provide a great place for boys to grow a little more.
  #49  
Old 07-17-2012, 09:22 PM
Unintentionally Blank Unintentionally Blank is offline
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I may be coming into this a little too early...our pack is only three years old. It may change as the boys reach scouting age and they become more aware, but two things stand out in my mind:

1. Sexual preference is YEARS away from showing itself in these kids' lives.

2. There's a great push for boys to reach Eagle before 16, when they become overcome by 'the fumes', Perfume, and gasolene fumes.

The bulk of what scouting has to teach can be had before Johnny starts to 'feel funny'. Based on the number of kids in our pack that are there for 'some semblance of a male role model' in their lives, I'd say it was more important to leave sexuality, AS A WHOLE, out of the equation.

In much the same way that religion plays a varying role, depending on the pack. Some are really devout, others....not so much.

If anything, it migh teach the kids that ALL organizations have a cross section of members...hypocrites and all.

ETA: Based on how hard it's been trying to recruit volunteers to run the pack, I suspect if they pushed the point, their numbers would implode.

Last edited by Unintentionally Blank; 07-17-2012 at 09:25 PM.
  #50  
Old 07-17-2012, 09:36 PM
Unintentionally Blank Unintentionally Blank is offline
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Did you guys bother to read the statement?

Quote:
“The vast majority of the parents of youth we serve value their right to address issues of same-sex orientation within their family, with spiritual advisers, and at the appropriate time and in the right setting,” said Bob Mazzuca, Chief Scout Executive of the Boy Scouts. “While a majority of our membership agrees with our policy, we fully understand that no single policy will accommodate the many diverse views among our membership or society.”
Sounds like they're deciding by NOT deciding.
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