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Old 08-07-2017, 05:42 PM
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Stephen Miller and cosmopolitan bias


Stephen Miller was asked if the proposed immigration policy supported by the Trump administration that weights the ability to speak English higher than previous immigration policies was intended only allow immigrants from Great Britain and Australia. Here is his response.

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I am shocked at your statement, that you think only people from Great Britain and Australia would know English. It's actually — it reveals your cosmopolitan bias to a shocking degree. … This is an amazing moment. That you think only people from Great Britain or Australia would know English is so insulting to millions of hard-working immigrants who do speak English from all over the world.
Some people think that was response brilliantly turned the tables on the questioner while others thought it was more than a little intellectually dishonest. I'm in the second camp but that's not what inspired this thread.

What caught my ear was the use of the phrase, "Cosmopolitan bias." I had never heard the phrase before and it seemed like a weird turn of phrase for a 31 year-old guy from Santa Monica, CA. So I Googled it and it turns out to be a white nationalist dog whistle.

I'll repeat for emphasis. The guy who represents Trump's plans for immigration is dog whistling to white nationalists.

Try to convince me that I'm reading this wrong. I'm less than 100% open minded on this uberdouche (Miller), but I'm willing to listen.
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Old 08-07-2017, 05:52 PM
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I've never heard the phrase before either, but such is the way of dogwhistles- if that's what this is. While we're on the subject, my own belief is that I don't give a shit if someone speaks English or not, let them in to the melting pot, the more the merrier. If I find I'm disturbed by not understanding the language spoken by the people in line behind me at the store, I can learn a new language if I feel like it. I'm free to learn whatever I want to learn- it is a free country.
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Old 08-07-2017, 05:57 PM
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Coastal Elites, Cosmopolitan Bias, Ivory Tower Mentality, Limousine Liberals

All terms used by members of the Right to disparage the other side. Folks in the "Fly Over States" often feel that the upper echelons of the Left disparage them (while ignoring how their own party leadership does the same).

So I give him partial credit for being ready with the answer (no way that was off the cuff). It was a cute, trite way to attack back with some legitimacy (I work in a US office full of English speaking immigrants from China and India). Requiring English fluency does not automatically block out immigrants from non-Anglo nations - it just limits it to the more educated (and helps continue the American brain drain effect).

But I won't deny that he was also tossing out red meat for the deplorable wing of the Trump base.
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Old 08-07-2017, 05:58 PM
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Salon.com is of course a well known white supremacist web site:

http://www.salon.com/2016/08/25/jour...media_partner/

"Nothing Klein says is on its face untrue, and I am particularly sympathetic to his notion of a cosmopolitan bias — one I discussed myself in an earlier post — not because it is unfair to Trump, but because it skews coverage away from the disempowered and toward elites. Let’s face it, the media are self-serving."

And of course the Cosmopolitan magazine, the Cosmopolitan hotel in NYC, the Cosmopolitan cocktail - all those are dog whistles.
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Old 08-07-2017, 06:00 PM
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Requiring English fluency does not automatically block out immigrants from non-Anglo nations - it just limits it to the more educated (and helps continue the American brain drain effect).
And God forbid we try to bring in more educated immigrants.
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Old 08-07-2017, 06:02 PM
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Odd that a Jewish guy would use an anti-Semitic insult against a non-jew.

I think it's just a weird coincidence.

And Miller does have a point. Lots of people around the world speak English as a second language.
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Old 08-07-2017, 06:04 PM
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I never heard the term before Miller used it either, but I'm quite sure Miller and his orange boss had no idea that it had a white nationalist connotation, just as they never meant anything about Jews by using the term "International Banks", and of course that wasn't a Star of David on that nasty Tweet about Hillary's supposed corruption a while back.
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Old 08-07-2017, 06:15 PM
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Did he finish off with a "Heil Drumpf" or did he save it for backstage?
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Old 08-07-2017, 06:25 PM
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The bigger question: how the fuck is it cosmopolitan bias to assume that English speakers are from English-speaking countries? Surely folks who live in cosmopolitan cities will be more, not less, familiar with foreigners who speak English as a second language.

Not that the reporter was making any such assumption--Miller was being disingenuous in this attack--but the attack itself makes no sense at all.
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Old 08-07-2017, 06:33 PM
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whether or not "cosmopolitan bias" is a dog whistle distracts from the larger elephant in the bill. Non English speaking immigrants is a HUGE issue for many in the immigration debate. Many people don't like it that they have to "push 1 for English" in their own damn country! That local govt offices are spending so much money on nonenglish signs. That a language they dont understand is "spoken by the people in line behind me at the store." etc. Don't worry about the dog whistles only a few can hear. It's the shouts out to the xenophobic that should really concern us!

mc
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Old 08-07-2017, 06:39 PM
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And God forbid we try to bring in more educated immigrants.
My greatgrand parents who immigrated here from Ireland had NO FORMAL EDUCATION.
My grandparents never went to high school.
my mother only finished high school.
my father didn't but got his GED.
I am the first person in my family, EVER, to go to college.

just what are you saying?

mc
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Old 08-07-2017, 06:50 PM
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Originally Posted by mikecurtis View Post
My greatgrand parents who immigrated here from Ireland had NO FORMAL EDUCATION.
My grandparents never went to high school.
my mother only finished high school.
my father didn't but got his GED.
I am the first person in my family, EVER, to go to college.

just what are you saying?

mc
I am saying that the country would clearly benefit from bringing in more educated immigrants vs. less educated ones. Was that not clear?
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Old 08-07-2017, 06:53 PM
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I am saying that the country would clearly benefit from bringing in more educated immigrants vs. less educated ones. Was that not clear?
What's not clear is what the fuck that "vs." has to do with anything. This isn't immigrant thunderdome, there's no natural limit on the number of immigrants we can allow in. And nobody is objecting to letting in educated immigrants; the objection is to using increases there to further stymie poor immigrants who are desperate for a better life here.
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Old 08-07-2017, 06:56 PM
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I am saying that the country would clearly benefit from bringing in more educated immigrants vs. less educated ones. Was that not clear?
Perfect example of "I got mine, fuck everyone else", from one whose side always falsely claims moral high ground.
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Old 08-07-2017, 06:57 PM
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I am aware that cosmopolitan can be used as a codeword for Jewish in some circles. (It's similar to how the word urban is sometimes used as a codeword for black.) But from the context, I don't think it's the case here.

I think Miller was using cosmopolitan to connote big city liberal elitists as opposed to Real Americans who live in small towns in the middle of the country.
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Old 08-07-2017, 06:57 PM
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What's not clear is what the fuck that "vs." has to do with anything. This isn't immigrant thunderdome, there's no natural limit on the number of immigrants we can allow in.
There are immigration quotas, and no country can, does, or should bring in unlimited number of immigrants, so priorities are important. I think a priority for more educated immigrants is a good one.

Last edited by Okrahoma; 08-07-2017 at 06:57 PM.
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Old 08-07-2017, 06:59 PM
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There are immigration quotas, and no country can, does, or should bring in unlimited number of immigrants, so priorities are important. I think a priority for more educated immigrants is a good one.
A good one for whom? You? Or humanity?
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Old 08-07-2017, 07:03 PM
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A good one for whom? You? Or humanity?
A good one for the United States, of course. Or any country that allows limited immigration.

Last edited by Okrahoma; 08-07-2017 at 07:03 PM.
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Old 08-07-2017, 07:07 PM
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A good one for the United States, of course. Or any country that allows limited immigration.
So you are for using The USA's position of power to enrich itself further rather than to help the people that need it most?
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Old 08-07-2017, 07:09 PM
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I listened to an interviewee on NPR who studies alt-right language, and she laid out a pretty clear, historical case for the use of "cosmopolitan" as a dog whistle in this case. From personal knowledge, all I can say is that when I originally watched the exchange, the word stuck out as bizarrely out of place. Like if Miller had said, "you are showing your urban bias" we would have all said, "huh, what?"


Quote:
Originally Posted by Okrahoma
And of course the Cosmopolitan magazine, the Cosmopolitan hotel in NYC, the Cosmopolitan cocktail - all those are dog whistles.
Sure. And if your wife steps out on you (example only - I don't know if you are male or married, and if you are both of those things, whether your wife would ever cheat on you) and I say "Okrahoma is a cuckold!" I'm on the alt-right.

But you and I both know that's not true, because context matters.
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Old 08-07-2017, 07:09 PM
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So you are for using The USA's position of power to enrich itself further rather than to help the people that need it most?
"Enrich"? Replace it with "better" and the answer is yes.
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Old 08-07-2017, 07:09 PM
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Odd. The Republican position is, allegedly, that educated immigrants are desirable. Yet Republicans eschew education as evidenced by their crying about ivory-tower liberal academia. Then they complain about their culture an' heritage being supplanted by immigrants. Educated immigrants. Who have the educations Republicans oppose.

Odd.
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Old 08-07-2017, 07:10 PM
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This country is RUN on the sweat from nationals and immigrants who have little or no secondary education. Whether or not you're educated is no indication of whether or not you'll be a productive member of society. Talk about a "cosmopolitan bias" I think that term applies equally well to people who feel that only educated persons are worthy of the benefits of a life here in the USA.

mc
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Old 08-07-2017, 07:15 PM
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"Enrich"? Replace it with "better" and the answer is yes.
Ok, so just fuck those guys that need and would benefit the most from coming in?

I admit this line of questioning is a bit loaded. But my point is that I think there has to be a middle of the road solution for the sake of all humanity. Not just "USA, fuck yeah! No poors allowed!"
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Old 08-07-2017, 07:17 PM
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Ok, so just fuck those guys that need and would benefit the most from coming in?

I admit this line of questioning is a bit loaded.
"A bit"?
Quote:
But my point is that I think there has to be a middle of the road solution for the sake of all humanity. Not just "USA, fuck yeah! No poors allowed!"
The immigration policy of a country should be for the benefit of the country, not for the benefit of the world. If the two coincide or overlap, great. If not, the benefit of the country takes priority.
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Old 08-07-2017, 07:21 PM
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The immigration policy of a country should be for the benefit of the country, not for the benefit of the world. If the two coincide or overlap, great. If not, the benefit of the country takes priority.
And you're equating education with benefit, which in my mind detracts from the benefit of the country, so by your reasoning you should not be here. Bon Voyage!

mc
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Old 08-07-2017, 07:25 PM
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Ok, so just fuck those guys that need and would benefit the most from coming in?

I admit this line of questioning is a bit loaded. But my point is that I think there has to be a middle of the road solution for the sake of all humanity. Not just "USA, fuck yeah! No poors allowed!"
Let's be frank, one reason we give poorer countries so many billions of dollars in aid is to keep their citizens in their country rather than them coming to the US.

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Old 08-07-2017, 07:30 PM
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Wow!You are gonna have to explain that one to me, Nawth Chucka !



Give me a second to make some popcorn and pour a drink.
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Old 08-07-2017, 07:58 PM
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Wow!You are gonna have to explain that one to me, Nawth Chucka !



Give me a second to make some popcorn and pour a drink.
What are you Wow! about?
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Old 08-07-2017, 07:58 PM
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There are immigration quotas, and no country can, does, or should bring in unlimited number of immigrants, so priorities are important. I think a priority for more educated immigrants is a good one.
There is no need whatsoever for a single quota. Presumably there is an ideal number of folks with mathematics PhDs for the US to invite as immigrants. This number is entirely unrelated to the ideal number of folks with a third grade education that the US should invite as immigrants--or, for that matter, to the ideal number of folks who are fleeing US-enabled drug violence in their home country that the US should invite as immigrants.

Priorities are important, and I super-appreciate your pointing that out, Captain Obvious. But the priority you're setting is like saying, "Which is more important, that I eat Cheerios for breakfast, or that I listen to the radio in my car on the way to work?" They're unrelated in terms of priority-setting, and doing one doesn't mean you can't do the other.
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Old 08-07-2017, 08:01 PM
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Heh--fun fact: Anti-cosmopolitan Stephen Miller lives in a $1 million condo in downtown DC in a building with a Gucci shop and the hilariously apt slogan "You are where you live."

In case he ever tries to blast the elites, it's worth pointing out that his daddy's real-estate company bought the condo for him.

Last edited by Left Hand of Dorkness; 08-07-2017 at 08:02 PM.
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Old 08-07-2017, 08:09 PM
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I am aware that cosmopolitan can be used as a codeword for Jewish in some circles. (It's similar to how the word urban is sometimes used as a codeword for black.) But from the context, I don't think it's the case here.

I think Miller was using cosmopolitan to connote big city liberal elitists as opposed to Real Americans who live in small towns in the middle of the country.
Because people that live in small town America are known for their widespread understanding that English speakers can be found in all parts of the world, or something??!?? Just more WTF from the WH.

First the half-assed transgender in the military thing and now this.

I think the Trump Show has added a new feature called Double-Down Wednesday. Every Wednesday, with great fanfare, they will announce a brand new ultra regressive piece of policy or pending legislation guaranteed to piss off liberals. But they won't really pursue it ( mostly because they're incompetent) so it'll dominate the news cycle until the weekly Friday Afternoon Surprise takes over and then it'll be eclipsed by whatever next Wednesday brings.

Last edited by Ann Hedonia; 08-07-2017 at 08:10 PM.
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Old 08-07-2017, 08:23 PM
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What caught my ear was the use of the phrase, "Cosmopolitan bias." I had never heard the phrase before and it seemed like a weird turn of phrase for a 31 year-old guy from Santa Monica, CA. So I Googled it and it turns out to be a white nationalist dog whistle.

I'll repeat for emphasis. The guy who represents Trump's plans for immigration is dog whistling to white nationalists.

Try to convince me that I'm reading this wrong. I'm less than 100% open minded on this uberdouche (Miller), but I'm willing to listen.
According to this piece in Politico, the term is also tied to anti-Semitic Soviet rhetoric.

Quote:
One reason why “cosmopolitan” is an unnerving term is that it was the key to an attempt by Soviet dictator Josef Stalin to purge the culture of dissident voices. In a 1946 speech, he deplored works in which “the positive Soviet hero is derided and inferior before all things foreign and cosmopolitanism that we all fought against from the time of Lenin,
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Old 08-07-2017, 08:28 PM
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Steven Miller speaks and looks like a Schutzstaffel officer direct from Central Casting. I literally can't see him speak without unconsciously muttering under my breath, "Nazis...I hate these guys.". How anyone can take what he says as anything but barely concealed racist claptrap is beyond my conception.

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Old 08-07-2017, 08:36 PM
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But my point is that I think there has to be a middle of the road solution for the sake of all humanity.
Why is the United States responsible for all of humanity?
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Old 08-07-2017, 08:39 PM
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Why is the United States responsible for all of humanity?
Humanity is responsible for humanity. Last time I checked, humans live in USA too. Though sometimes it's hard to tell.
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Old 08-07-2017, 08:42 PM
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So you are for using The USA's position of power to enrich itself further rather than to help the people that need it most?
Wait, are those the only two choices?

If so, then, USA, obviously.
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Old 08-07-2017, 08:48 PM
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Humanity is responsible for humanity. Last time I checked, humans live in USA too. Though sometimes it's hard to tell.
You have to remember, D'Anconia is not part of humanity.
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Old 08-07-2017, 08:50 PM
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Humanity is responsible for humanity. Last time I checked, humans live in USA too. Though sometimes it's hard to tell.
People are responsible for themselves, and their families. Not ALL OF HUMANITY. Tard.
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Old 08-07-2017, 08:54 PM
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You have to remember, D'Anconia is not part of humanity.
Shut up, grandpa. Are you sitting on the pie? I certainly hope so.
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Old 08-07-2017, 08:54 PM
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People are responsible for themselves, and their families. Not ALL OF HUMANITY. Tard.
What if being responsible to your family meant getting them somewhere safe, and the place that is safe is saying to go fuck yourself because you didn't have time to learn fluent english during those times between dodging bullets?
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Old 08-07-2017, 08:56 PM
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What if being responsible to your family meant getting them somewhere safe, and the place that is safe is saying to go fuck yourself because you didn't have time to learn fluent english during those times between dodging bullets?
A place that tells them to go fuck themselves doesn't sound all that safe.
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Old 08-07-2017, 08:57 PM
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Humanity is responsible for humanity. Last time I checked, humans live in USA too. Though sometimes it's hard to tell.
"No man is an island, entire upon himself..."

And at least many of us are not saying the US should exhaust itself Giving-Tree-like for the sake of the world, either. That would end up worse for all involved. But at the same time, committing ourselves to a zero-sum "we win, everyone else loses, sucks to be you" POV does seem to be surrendering the moral high ground.

(... OK, that is if as many US conservatives you claim to be a Christian. OTOH if you are benighted members of the cult of Ayn Rand and DO believe you have no responsibility for your fellow human, well, can't help you there, hope you REALLY are superior enough to survive when the balloon goes up...)

However, seeing as to how the new policy does not only turn immigration into something competitive but would also cut down the total numbers of legal immigrants it's hard to see how great an advantage does it represent. What it sounds is more like a philosophical doctrinal type of policy: its designers are people who believe they earned and deserved their positions of power and wealth over the other losers, and want future generations of immigrants to share the ideology of having "earned" and "deserved" their entry.

Last edited by JRDelirious; 08-07-2017 at 09:01 PM.
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Old 08-07-2017, 08:58 PM
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Shut up, grandpa. Are you sitting on the pie? I certainly hope so.
We're a better place without you.
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Old 08-07-2017, 08:59 PM
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What if being responsible to your family meant getting them somewhere safe, and the place that is safe is saying to go fuck yourself because you didn't have time to learn fluent english during those times between dodging bullets?
Do you mean like Hillary dodging bullets in Bosnia?
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Old 08-07-2017, 09:02 PM
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A place that tells them to go fuck themselves doesn't sound all that safe.
Is that what you and Okra want? A place less safe than the "dodging bullets interfered with my english class" place?
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Old 08-07-2017, 09:07 PM
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We're a better place without you.
And yet I'm still here.

You, on the other hand, are one of the biggest libtards on this board, like Elvis and Bob Lib Dum.
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Old 08-07-2017, 09:07 PM
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Do you mean like Hillary dodging bullets in Bosnia?
Just had to force in a Clinton reference that makes no sense.
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Old 08-07-2017, 09:09 PM
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Is that what you and Okra want? A place less safe than the "dodging bullets interfered with my english class" place?
Uh, no; I want us to be well enough off that we can afford to throw some bennies to other folks, because that'd be real nice. But I figure we're kinda full up with our own problems right now, so that's gonna haveta wait; figure if we throw the doors open to everyone trying to flee some shithole, then pretty soon we're just another shithole, and figure now'd be a real good time to stave off that "pretty soon".
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Old 08-07-2017, 09:10 PM
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Just had to force in a Clinton reference that makes no sense.
I'm sorry (not really) that your reading comprehension is so poor.
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