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  #801  
Old 08-31-2018, 03:58 PM
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I've been trying to interest my partner in the Jacoby 2N; how's it working for you?
It almost never comes up! In this last session I had 4-card support, 9 hcp (or good 8?) and a singleton and just raised 1S to 4S. (Would a splinter bid be right with just 9 hcp?)

Lots of "important" auctions never come up. We're playing Inverted Minor Raises but both the 2-raise and the 3-raise are exceeding rare. We play Michaels and Unusual overcalls — again, both have almost never come up.

We open weak two's fairly often but it's never mattered that we've agreed only "RONF" in response. (What has mattered is partner's failure to jump to 4 when he has four of my weak-two suit; this cost us a game and a good sacrifice, as I've complained here before.)

I don't know why these "important" bids almost never come up for us. Our style? Chance? Is there a database of expert hand records showing how often various auctions arise?
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Last edited by septimus; 08-31-2018 at 04:03 PM.
  #802  
Old 08-31-2018, 06:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Quartz View Post
What is your NT range? Yes, I know you have a singleton Jack.
ACBL says:

"A notrump opening or overcall is natural if, by agreement, it contains no void, at most one singleton which must be the A, K or Q and no more than two doubletons. If the hand contains a singleton, it may have no doubleton.”
  #803  
Old 08-31-2018, 07:29 PM
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ACBL says:
This is a case of telling the least lie.
  #804  
Old 08-31-2018, 08:01 PM
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This is a case of telling the least lie.
You can do it, but you can't have a partnership agreement to do it. If you do it often and a director knows you do, they might not allow it because they believe you have an implicit agreement.

I was in a club once whose director prohibited one partnership from using the the unusual no trump because one of the partners so often used it wrong. His partner knew he was apt to make a mistake and so was fore-warned, but opponents were not.
  #805  
Old 09-01-2018, 09:02 AM
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It almost never comes up! In this last session I had 4-card support, 9 hcp (or good 8?) and a singleton and just raised 1S to 4S. (Would a splinter bid be right with just 9 hcp?)

Lots of "important" auctions never come up. We're playing Inverted Minor Raises but both the 2-raise and the 3-raise are exceeding rare. We play Michaels and Unusual overcalls — again, both have almost never come up.

We open weak two's fairly often but it's never mattered that we've agreed only "RONF" in response. (What has mattered is partner's failure to jump to 4 when he has four of my weak-two suit; this cost us a game and a good sacrifice, as I've complained here before.)

I don't know why these "important" bids almost never come up for us. Our style? Chance? Is there a database of expert hand records showing how often various auctions arise?
J2N isn't that common but some sort of GF raise has to be fundamental in a natural system, esp if you're not playing 2/1 - it's different to stuff like Michaels etc which you could easily do without and is a choice to include on your card. Most good players I know seem fine with J2N, but don't rate the text-book response structure of 3 level shortness etc. Apparently there are better ways to follow up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldGuy
I was in a club once whose director prohibited one partnership from using the the unusual no trump because one of the partners so often used it wrong. His partner knew he was apt to make a mistake and so was fore-warned, but opponents were not.
I'm all for TD's stepping in to curb irritating play. Ghestem is an old 5/5 variation I've seen abused like you say - the one where the 3C bid is used to show one of the combinations [and easily forgotten]. Seen that fielded a few times from slippery players.

Last edited by Busy Scissors; 09-01-2018 at 09:03 AM.
  #806  
Old 09-01-2018, 12:57 PM
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Originally Posted by septimus View Post
♠ KQJ3
AQ95
KJ84
♣ J
Just to add that I have no problem with that hand playing 5-card majors and 2/1.

I open 1D. Over partner’s 2C, I bid 2H. While reverses after a one-level response show a longer first suit, that is not necessary after a 2/1 response. In fact, with 4 hearts and 5 diamonds I would rebid 2D and partner can bid a major if she is interested in a major suit fit.
  #807  
Old 09-01-2018, 01:07 PM
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Most good players I know seem fine with J2N, but don't rate the text-book response structure of 3 level shortness etc. Apparently there are better ways to follow up.
I think the biggest issue with standard J2N responses is the jump to game with a minimum hand and no shortage. It preempts partner (an issue with “fast arrival” in general). If responder is interested in slam opposite the right minimum, he has to start exploring at the 5-level. My preference is a set of responses to 2NT that include 3C = all minimums, 3D = extras and shortage somewhere.

Over 3C, responder can bid 3D to ask for shortage.

Another benefit of this is that if responder is not interested in slam opposite a minimum, he can now bid game and have given opponents no information about shortage in declarer’s hand.
  #808  
Old 10-03-2018, 06:21 AM
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Had a tricky problem at the table last night - my partner's game has gone to shit
In the last four games he has revoked three times(!), attempted a ruff in 6NT, needlessly ruffed winners - all stuff that's symptomatic of a fragmented concentration. He's also good for at least one basic bidding misunderstanding per night, consistently, last night's being my passed hand bid of 2NT over his 1S described as game force with support.

It's very frustrating but what can you do? He's not doing it on purpose so I'm not sure there's value in having a sit down about it. Has anyone grasped this type of nettle and did anything good come of it?

I'm good for plenty of mistakes myself, mind - bad leads, dodgy slams, tragic switches etc, but these are mistakes of trying to play bridge. Not being able to follow suit or understand a vanilla 2/1 system is just a different level.
  #809  
Old 10-03-2018, 07:10 AM
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Here's a bidding question: you are 4-4 in diamonds and clubs with opening points and partner opens 1C. Over your 1D he jumps to 3D. Do you bid 4C?

Unbeknown to you, partner has 6 clubs and 4 diamonds and 19 HCP and both 7C and 7D make but 7C is cold.
  #810  
Old 10-03-2018, 07:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Busy Scissors View Post
Had a tricky problem at the table last night - my partner's game has gone to shit
In the last four games he has revoked three times(!), attempted a ruff in 6NT, needlessly ruffed winners - all stuff that's symptomatic of a fragmented concentration. He's also good for at least one basic bidding misunderstanding per night, consistently, last night's being my passed hand bid of 2NT over his 1S described as game force with support.

It's very frustrating but what can you do? He's not doing it on purpose so I'm not sure there's value in having a sit down about it. Has anyone grasped this type of nettle and did anything good come of it?
How old is he? It could be a mental decline that neither of you can do anything about.

One minor thing: in NT, do not put down a long suit on your (dummy's) right (declarer's left). It can look like a trump suit. Burn's Second Law: you cannot make 3NT on a cross-ruff.
  #811  
Old 10-03-2018, 07:42 AM
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Here's a bidding question: you are 4-4 in diamonds and clubs with opening points and partner opens 1C. Over your 1D he jumps to 3D. Do you bid 4C?

Unbeknown to you, partner has 6 clubs and 4 diamonds and 19 HCP and both 7C and 7D make but 7C is cold.
1D response to 1C - I ain't heard of that. What are your minor suit raise bids?

I'd bid 2C inv minor raise (forcing to 3N level), and it's done. Partner can diagnose a 10 card fit and the power for slam, so just needs to check on controls to place it in 6 or 7. Effective checking on controls for a club small slam can be a lot trickier than in a major suit, but here you know it's 6C minimum so you'll probably figure it out OK.
  #812  
Old 10-03-2018, 07:51 AM
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Here's a bidding question: you are 4-4 in diamonds and clubs with opening points and partner opens 1C. Over your 1D he jumps to 3D. Do you bid 4C?

Unbeknown to you, partner has 6 clubs and 4 diamonds and 19 HCP and both 7C and 7D make but 7C is cold.
Hard to say without knowing the hand. I suspect I would bid 3M as a try for NT or an advanced cue bid, depending on the hand.

It is not a given that you want to be in clubs even with the bigger fit. 4-4 fits can play for more tricks because you get discards on the longer suit and get a ruff. Let's say you are Ax xxx QJxx AQxx and partner x Ax AKxx KJxxxx. 7C is no play but 7D just needs a 3-2 trump break. You throw two hearts away on the clubs and ruff a heart for the 13th trick.
  #813  
Old 10-03-2018, 07:56 AM
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1D response to 1C - I ain't heard of that. What are your minor suit raise bids?

I'd bid 2C inv minor raise (forcing to 3N level), and it's done. Partner can diagnose a 10 card fit and the power for slam, so just needs to check on controls to place it in 6 or 7. Effective checking on controls for a club small slam can be a lot trickier than in a major suit, but here you know it's 6C minimum so you'll probably figure it out OK.
You don't raise immediately on 4-card club support because it might be a 4-3 fit. Or even 4-2 (Quartz did not say how many clubs the opening guarantees).
  #814  
Old 10-03-2018, 07:56 AM
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How old is he? It could be a mental decline that neither of you can do anything about.

One minor thing: in NT, do not put down a long suit on your (dummy's) right (declarer's left). It can look like a trump suit. Burn's Second Law: you cannot make 3NT on a cross-ruff.
He's in his mid-60s, so not old particularly but maybe losing a bit of sharpness.
It is certainly different to a partner in their 20s, say, where you could have no qualms about a frank exchange of views.
  #815  
Old 10-03-2018, 08:24 AM
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You don't raise immediately on 4-card club support because it might be a 4-3 fit. Or even 4-2 (Quartz did not say how many clubs the opening guarantees).
2C is OK with 4 on 2-3-4-4 / 3-2-4-4 hands MPs, IMHO, because establishing the force to 3N is important, you don't want to play in clubs, and there's nothing really better to bid.
You don't bid a weak 3C bid on 4, for sure, as you might be left playing there on a 7 card fit.
  #816  
Old 10-03-2018, 09:18 AM
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1D response to 1C - I ain't heard of that. What are your minor suit raise bids?
It's a natural 1C, and a natural 1D.

Quote:
I'd bid 2C inv minor raise (forcing to 3N level),
In the first bidder's hand? That would indicate a weak hand with no fit, a six-card suit, and perhaps only 10 points.
  #817  
Old 10-03-2018, 09:19 AM
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You don't raise immediately on 4-card club support because it might be a 4-3 fit. Or even 4-2 (Quartz did not say how many clubs the opening guarantees).
At least four clubs.
  #818  
Old 10-03-2018, 10:07 AM
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Here's a bidding question: you are 4-4 in diamonds and clubs with opening points and partner opens 1C. Over your 1D he jumps to 3D. Do you bid 4C?

Unbeknown to you, partner has 6 clubs and 4 diamonds and 19 HCP and both 7C and 7D make but 7C is cold.
It looks like Quartz basically plays a similar system to me. As described, I too would respond 1D initially, as the change of suit is forcing for one round and allows partner to describe his hand further (I know we need to at least be in game, he doesn't yet). I would not necessarily expect him to have more than 4 clubs, and if I bid 2C as a first response I would expect him to take this as weak support for clubs. Over his second bid of 3D I think 4C is a reasonable bid, as it makes it clear we are likely heading beyond game and shows that I am quite happy to play in his first suit, which is probably a bigger fit. Partner can then decide if cue bidding or RKCB is the most appropriate way to proceed.
  #819  
Old 10-03-2018, 11:18 AM
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It's a natural 1C, and a natural 1D.



In the first bidder's hand? That would indicate a weak hand with no fit, a six-card suit, and perhaps only 10 points.
In your hand. Should have said inv means inverted, so 2C shows 4 card support and 12+, 3C would show a weak preemptive hand with 5 clubs. It allows you to establish a game force to 3N in minor suit hands that have no major suit fits - just bid out your stoppers and you'll easily locate 3N when it is right, or 4 / 5 C when that is right, or higher when you have a slam hand like the one in question.
If you have no minor suit game force raise available, then I see why you chose to bid 1D. Inverted minors go well with Acol, though, plenty of people play them.
  #820  
Old 10-06-2018, 10:23 AM
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Originally Posted by amarone View Post
You don't raise immediately on 4-card club support because it might be a 4-3 fit. Or even 4-2 (Quartz did not say how many clubs the opening guarantees).
I see the logic of this in clubs, but it shouldn't apply to diamonds (even though 1D also only promises 3). Isn't 2D (inverted) clear-cut with, e.g.
AQx - xx - Qxxx - QJxx
For that matter, might 2C be best over 1C with
AQx - x - xxxxx - KJxx
ETA: As I've mentioned, Inverted Minor Raises (off in competition) is our major deviation from SAYC. But it hardly ever comes up.

Last edited by septimus; 10-06-2018 at 10:25 AM.
  #821  
Old 10-06-2018, 10:42 AM
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I see the logic of this in clubs, but it shouldn't apply to diamonds (even though 1D also only promises 3). Isn't 2D (inverted) clear-cut with, e.g.
AQx - xx - Qxxx - QJxx
For that matter, might 2C be best over 1C with
AQx - x - xxxxx - KJxx
ETA: As I've mentioned, Inverted Minor Raises (off in competition) is our major deviation from SAYC. But it hardly ever comes up.

Yes, diamonds can sometimes be 4. I play inverted minors off in competition also. Do you play them on or off by a passed hand? Yesterday, we bid P-1D-3D-P. Making seven.

I would bid 1D with your second hand.
  #822  
Old 10-06-2018, 11:47 AM
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Here's another hand.

I'm holding S:Qxxxx H:Qx D:KQ C:Jxxx

RHO opens a weak 2S, not vulnerable. I pass. LHO passes. Partner doubles. RHO passes. What do you do?

I passed, converting the double to penalties, and partner looked like thunder. She held S:AK H:Axxx D:Axxx C:AQx and we took them for 800.

I'm thinking that that hand is too good for for a mere double, especially with AK of the opponents' suit. As it happens, all the finesses are wrong: RHO has C:K and LHO has H:KJT9x and 6N fails badly and even 3N can go off.
  #823  
Old 10-06-2018, 12:46 PM
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[1] Do you play them on or off by a passed hand? Yesterday, we bid P-1D-3D-P. Making seven.

[2] I would bid 1D with your second hand.
Oops. I better check with partner. I think I said 'off' but am not sure partner remembers. We usually design our system in the little PlayOK chat-box which isn't archived.

[2] And bid 3C forcing over partner's 1S? Maybe you're good enough to force here, but how about
AJ - xx - Jxxxx - KJxx
  #824  
Old 10-06-2018, 02:43 PM
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Here's another hand.

I'm holding S:Qxxxx H:Qx D:KQ C:Jxxx

RHO opens a weak 2S, not vulnerable. I pass. LHO passes. Partner doubles. RHO passes. What do you do?

I passed, converting the double to penalties, and partner looked like thunder. She held S:AK H:Axxx D:Axxx C:AQx and we took them for 800.

I'm thinking that that hand is too good for for a mere double, especially with AK of the opponents' suit. As it happens, all the finesses are wrong: RHO has C:K and LHO has H:KJT9x and 6N fails badly and even 3N can go off.
Were you vulnerable? If not I think I'd have the same auction and expect a decent score. If you were I'd think more carefully about looking for your game so might bid, but it's difficult with a balancing double - she could have a shapely 9 hcps for that bid. Preempts often work and usually it's best to just take the money at matchpoints.

Think such a strong hand has to start with a double, though. What would the alternative be? A 3S cue bid by partner would prob mean bid 3N if you have a stopper and it's not usually bid with a balanced beast of a hand like this.

Last edited by Busy Scissors; 10-06-2018 at 02:43 PM.
  #825  
Old 10-06-2018, 02:44 PM
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I'm holding S:Qxxxx H:Qx D:KQ C:Jxxx

RHO opens a weak 2S, not vulnerable....

I passed, converting the double to penalties, and partner looked like thunder. She held S:AK H:Axxx D:Axxx C:AQx and we took them for 800.
I don't know why anyone's complaining let alone "looking like thunder." Who wants to be in slam with a mangy 31 hcp?

Did you have the Eight-spot in spades? If so perfect defense should get Down Five. (Run winners, pitching a heart, ruff their heart winner; get a double uppercut.)
  #826  
Old 10-06-2018, 05:40 PM
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[2] And bid 3C forcing over partner's 1S? Maybe you're good enough to force here, but how about
AJ - xx - Jxxxx - KJxx
3C is invitational, not forcing. The question on this hand becomes whether a 1S bid guarantees any particular minimum number of clubs. My preference is that it shows 4+ clubs, in which case an invitational 3C bid is fine on both your examples. Yes, the first one is stronger, but it is a long way to 5C. Partner will bid again if we have a game on.
  #827  
Old 10-06-2018, 05:52 PM
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Did you have the Eight-spot in spades?
I don't recall.

Quote:
If so perfect defense should get Down Five. (Run winners, pitching a heart, ruff their heart winner; get a double uppercut.)
We would have got them down 5 if my partner had led her Ace of Diamonds as I could have overruffed declarer or gain a trump promotion.
  #828  
Old 10-06-2018, 06:11 PM
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We would have got them down 5 if my partner had led her Ace of Diamonds as I could have overruffed declarer or gain a trump promotion.
Just to elaborate, after I cashed my DKQ I led a low heart which she won with the ace and she led back a low diamond, which was ruffed by declarer and over-ruffed by me. I then led a club, won by the Ace and she didn't try her fourth diamond (the ace).

Last edited by Quartz; 10-06-2018 at 06:12 PM.
  #829  
Old 10-06-2018, 06:42 PM
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A 3S cue bid by partner would prob mean bid 3N if you have a stopper and it's not usually bid with a balanced beast of a hand like this.
I play that 3S is Michaels, showing hearts and a minor.
  #830  
Old 10-06-2018, 07:04 PM
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Think such a strong hand has to start with a double, though. What would the alternative be?
How about a bid of 2NT?
  #831  
Old 10-06-2018, 09:38 PM
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Originally Posted by amarone View Post
3C is invitational, not forcing.
It may be invitational in your system, but I don't think this is a general truth. (Are you British?) IIRC, circa 1970 most Americans played jump preference in opener's minor as forcing, though the SAYC Booklet may not take a stand on this matter one way or the other. (If it matters, we play fourth-suit bid as forcing for one round only.)

I don't remember (or never knew) what effect the use of inverted minor raises should have on the decision whether jump preference is forcing or not.
  #832  
Old 10-06-2018, 10:12 PM
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It may be invitational in your system, but I don't think this is a general truth. (Are you British?) IIRC, circa 1970 most Americans played jump preference in opener's minor as forcing, though the SAYC Booklet may not take a stand on this matter one way or the other. (If it matters, we play fourth-suit bid as forcing for one round only.)

I don't remember (or never knew) what effect the use of inverted minor raises should have on the decision whether jump preference is forcing or not.
I am British, as it happens, but have lived in the US for over 20 years and I play 2/1. The jump rebid in partner's suit is definitely invitational in 2/1. I do not know SAYC, but the ACBL booklet on SAYC states that responder's second bid "determines whether he wishes to sign off in a part score, invite game, sign off in game, ot force to game to get more information about opener's hand". There is then a section for each category, the "invite game" section stating "Bids available for inviting to game: 2NT, 3 of a peviously bid suit"

I play FSF as game forcing.
  #833  
Old 10-08-2018, 04:06 AM
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I play FSF as game forcing.
I think FSF Game-forcing / minor-suit jump preference non-forcing go together.

FSF might be an interesting topic to discuss. I first read of it in an ancient book by Norman Squire! (though I barely remember that now.)

Perhaps we can find common ground: You don't treat the FSF sequence 1C - 1D - 1H - 1S as a game force, do you? I do treat the FSF sequence 1S - 2H - 3D - 4C as a game force!
  #834  
Old 10-08-2018, 06:17 AM
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I think FSF Game-forcing / minor-suit jump preference non-forcing go together.

FSF might be an interesting topic to discuss. I first read of it in an ancient book by Norman Squire! (though I barely remember that now.)

Perhaps we can find common ground: You don't treat the FSF sequence 1C - 1D - 1H - 1S as a game force, do you? I do treat the FSF sequence 1S - 2H - 3D - 4C as a game force!
I learnt that 1-1-1-1 was natural and the exception to FSF sequences, and play it that way, but the BBO 2/1 Gib standard plays it as GF. As this is a pretty mainstream amalgamation of 2/1 methods, perhaps it is more standard to play it like this nowadays?

Last edited by Busy Scissors; 10-08-2018 at 06:18 AM.
  #835  
Old 10-08-2018, 06:43 AM
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I don't see how FSF could ever be a game force. You only use it to see if you can get to No Trumps and on a misfit you may be glad to stay in 2NT.
  #836  
Old 10-08-2018, 07:02 AM
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Originally Posted by septimus View Post
I think FSF Game-forcing / minor-suit jump preference non-forcing go together.

FSF might be an interesting topic to discuss. I first read of it in an ancient book by Norman Squire! (though I barely remember that now.)

Perhaps we can find common ground: You don't treat the FSF sequence 1C - 1D - 1H - 1S as a game force, do you? I do treat the FSF sequence 1S - 2H - 3D - 4C as a game force!
1C - 1D - 1H - 1S is natural for me. You bid 2S for FSF. It takes a lot of room, but no big deal if you play FSF as game forcing.

I was playing an EBU tournament on Funbridge yesterday. I have configured it to play 2/1, but it definitely plays some different things from the 2/1 I am used to in the US. I had a 2344 11-count, no spade stop, and the bidding started 1C - 1D - 1H. I checked how it played 3C and sure enough, it plays it as GF. Then I discovered that 1S was FSF, but not forcing to game. So I bid 1S, which the bot helpfully raised to 2S.

Funbridge is based in France, so they obviously have different views of FSF and delayed minor raises from what is most common in the US.

I would also treat 1S - 2H - 3D - 4C as a game force for two reasons:

- 2H is game forcing in 2/1
- if not playing 2/1 (going back to when I played Acol), a new suit at the 4-level is GF
  #837  
Old 10-08-2018, 07:03 AM
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I agree that non-game forcing FSF seems nice, and offers a way out on misfits. Norman Squire used it to send the message "Opener: please use your 3rd bid to describe and limit your hand."

But of course, far more important than whether you play it as game-force or not, is whether you and partner agree on what it is.

ETA: I'd never heard of Funbridge. Do you play with a robot?

EETA: Obviously that 4C is a game force -- I was being whimsical.

Last edited by septimus; 10-08-2018 at 07:07 AM.
  #838  
Old 10-08-2018, 07:13 AM
amarone amarone is offline
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Originally Posted by Quartz View Post
I don't see how FSF could ever be a game force. You only use it to see if you can get to No Trumps and on a misfit you may be glad to stay in 2NT.
The preeminent teacher in the US (and many time National Champion), Larry Cohen, disagrees with you: https://www.larryco.com/bridge-artic...h-suit-forcing

Interesting that he says the reason that FSF should be game forcing is "Because jumps by responder in a previously bid suit are NOT forcing." So this is consistent with septimus's comment about the jump being GF and FSF not are interlinked.

The best-known teacher of beginners in the US, Audrey Grant, also plays FSF as GF: https://www.betterbridge.com/misc/St...dard200609.pdf
  #839  
Old 10-08-2018, 07:24 AM
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Originally Posted by septimus View Post
ETA: I'd never heard of Funbridge. Do you play with a robot?
Yes. The other three players at the table are all robots. The Funbridge bot ("Argine", I think) is better than BBO Gib, if you are familiar with BBO. Argine certainly defends better. You can also choose which system you want to play and configure the conventions to some extent, whereas BBO is 2/1 only. This does lead to some randomization when I play in EBU events. I play 2/1 with 15-17 NT, whereas most play Acol and 12-14. From time to time I will have what seems like a totally boring result, only to find I score 90% or 10% because of system differences.
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Old 10-08-2018, 08:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Quartz View Post
... You only use [FSF] to see if you can get to No Trumps ...
I think this is incorrect. You may have no interest in NT but want to choose between two of the already-bid suits. You may want to rebid or raise a suit but are too strong for a sign-off and too weak (in either high cards or suit quality) to jump. You may have a two-suiter unsuitable for No Trump. (But if partner then bids NT, he shows some support for your 2nd suit and you may then rebid or jump in that suit.)


@ amarone — To experiment with Funbridge should I download an App or can I just play on-line? How do the robots' skill compare with humans? GNU Backgammon will tell me when I make a bad move; does Funbridge attempt that?
  #841  
Old 10-08-2018, 08:12 AM
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@ amarone — To experiment with Funbridge should I download an App or can I just play on-line? How do the robots' skill compare with humans? GNU Backgammon will tell me when I make a bad move; does Funbridge attempt that?
It's an app. I play on an iPad, but you can also play on your computer. Go to funbridge.com and you can download from there. The bots are better than an average club player. It does not tell you when you have made a mistake.
  #842  
Old 10-09-2018, 06:01 PM
merrick merrick is offline
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A little bidding puzzle I completely messed up the other day:

Second in hand, no-one vulnerable, you pick up a shapely 12-count:
S Qxxxx H AKxx D QJ9x C -

The fun is spoiled by your RHO, who opens 1S! Now what?

SPOILER:
And if you pass, what do you do after 1S - P - P - 2C - P?
  #843  
Old 10-09-2018, 07:04 PM
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If this was rubber bridge I'd drop a card on the floor and then claim a misdeal!

Seriously, what a nasty situation.

Well, it's only a game. I bid 2H. Partner is short in spades, so must have some red cards.
  #844  
Old 10-09-2018, 07:54 PM
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Originally Posted by amarone View Post
The preeminent teacher in the US (and many time National Champion), Larry Cohen, disagrees with you: https://www.larryco.com/bridge-artic...h-suit-forcing
But he's using it in a different way from the way we do. We use 4SF to find or avoid a NT contract. That it forces partner to bid is enough. When we become more advanced players...
  #845  
Old 10-09-2018, 07:57 PM
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A bidding query:

Partner passes, RHO bids 1S, and you overcall 1N (15+ points). Partner bids 2C. Is that Stayman or take-out?
  #846  
Old 10-09-2018, 08:06 PM
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Originally Posted by merrick View Post
And if you pass, what do you do after 1S - P - P - 2C - P?
I'll bid 2S. Partner is showing 11+ points, so we could well be on for game. If partner bids 3H (showing 4 hearts) I will raise to 4H otherwise I will punt 3N.
  #847  
Old 10-09-2018, 08:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Quartz View Post
A bidding query:

Partner passes, RHO bids 1S, and you overcall 1N (15+ points). Partner bids 2C. Is that Stayman or take-out?
Most players now agree "systems on" over a 1NT overcall.
  #848  
Old 10-09-2018, 11:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quartz View Post
I don't see how FSF could ever be a game force. You only use it to see if you can get to No Trumps and on a misfit you may be glad to stay in 2NT.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quartz View Post
But he's using it in a different way from the way we do.... When we become more advanced players...
Just FTR: Might your first post have been clearer if the pronouns "you ... you ... you" were replaced with "I ... I ... I"?
  #849  
Old 10-10-2018, 03:30 AM
Busy Scissors Busy Scissors is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K364 View Post
If this was rubber bridge I'd drop a card on the floor and then claim a misdeal!

Seriously, what a nasty situation.

Well, it's only a game. I bid 2H. Partner is short in spades, so must have some red cards.
Why no balancing double if he is short in spades? We could have a spade fit ourselves. Balancing 1N hasn't appeared either, so it's looking like pard is long long in clubs.
Think I owe partner a bid despite the alarm bells, so I'll go ahead and misdescribe my hand with 2N. We'll need entries in pard's hand to run their club suit and give 3N some play, otherwise we'll be stranded. They should be able to weigh this up and can take it out to 3C if need be.
  #850  
Old 10-10-2018, 05:48 AM
Dead Cat Dead Cat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by merrick View Post
A little bidding puzzle I completely messed up the other day:

Second in hand, no-one vulnerable, you pick up a shapely 12-count:
S Qxxxx H AKxx D QJ9x C -

The fun is spoiled by your RHO, who opens 1S! Now what?

SPOILER:
And if you pass, what do you do after 1S - P - P - 2C - P?
I think I'd "pass and await developments". If partner doesn't have a bid, we can't possibly have missed a game. If he bids 2C, a pity I can't then double for takeout , but I'll then go 2S - partly to bid my longest suit first, partly because bidding the opponent's suit should force partner to bid again. If he goes 2N, I raise to 3N and expect it to have good chances. If he goes 3C, I pass the misfit. 3D is a bit sticky but again I bid 3N, thinking the spade Queen and length there is enough to avoid us losing 5 spade tricks off the bat. 3H gets raised to 4H. And 4S is left to play (presumably partner has 4 spades in that case). Anything else means partner must be really strong and we're either making 5 or a slam, depending. So basically I feel like I can cope with any situation - what's the problem?
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