Straight Dope Message Board

[shijinn]

Originally Posted by CrimeThink

I'm going the no real money purchases route as well. That's why I am enjoying arena a lot more than constructed, since it is equal except for luck. I play my one or two arena runs a day and start to build up the cards needed for constructed. I'm actually enjoying not having all the needed cards, as the slow progression is more satisfying to me than having everything I need immediately. ...

i just want to echo this, especially the graped part. opening packs are like opening presents since i still need most everything! everytime i get a new card, it is fun figuring out if i could use it in a deck. i have bought most of Blizzard's stuff full price on release, but a free-to-play is an irresistible challenge on top of the game itself. i also play a priest.

pricing on Naxx will be released in a few days. i hope gold can be used because i've saved up 2k for it. it isn't much but i think you can buy parts of the expansion piecemeal.

http://us.battle.net/hearthstone/en/...13271477080#13

[Tabby_Cat]

Originally Posted by Kobal2

Oh absolutely - you do need a deck that makes sense with synergy between the cards, you need to know what the hell you're doing, and knowing what the hell the other guy is doing is possibly even more important.

But when you've got a working Deck Concept that can work with common card A, it's almost a given that it will work even better with blue or purple card B that does the same thing only better in every way. E.g. you could put a TAZDINGO! in your deck for a decent 4 mana wall, or you could drop a Defender of Argus for two decent walls AND a creature on top of that. You could use the Goblin Rocketeer as your Rogue finisher (with Shadowstep goodness) for 10 points of cool surprise damage by turn 8. Or you could do it with Leeroy for 12 damage, as early as turn 6 (16 on turn 7 with the combo buff on top for maximum shenanigans).

And so on.

You know, I kinda beg to differ on this. Especially with Argus, if you're running a tempo style deck (I run tempo Rogue), often there just aren't enough targets on the board to make Argus cost efficient, whereas you can always Tazdingo (Shieldmasta') and have it be good. I've been thinking about swapping out Argus for a while.

Arcane Golem is almost as good as Leeroy (just 2 damage less, so with 2 shadowsteps that's 6 less in total for a crapton cheaper in dust, and 1 mana cheaper per Arcane Golem).

Still, rarely anything can replace Leeroy, Ragnaros, it's true. So play decks that don't rely on those guys, and you'll be fine.

[Grumman]

Originally Posted by Tabby_Cat

I've only spent $15(?) for the 15 packs so far, and those only got me Thalnos and Gruul. Been doing arenas to fill out the rest of my collection, I only really play Rogue, and have everything I need for Miracle Rogue, but... I just don't like playing Miracle. Every game is a pull at the slot machine, it seems. Mostly playing Tempo Rogue on ranked, up to Rank 11 this Season, but I'm not pushing for any higher - just happy to arena at this point. Maybe I'll try for rank 5 next season.

One of my two Rogue decks is Miracle-ish, but I don't play it like Miracle Rogue. Instead of a Leeroy finisher, I start comboing him with Shadowstep and AoE early - I might turn 4 Leeroy-Shadowstep, turn 5 Leeroy-Wild Pyromancer-Shadowstep, for example.

[Tabby_Cat]

Leeroy - Pyro - SS sounds interesting! Do you draw Leeroy early enough to make it consistent, though? Does Pyro serve you well otherwise (should help against Zoo I assume)?

[Tom Scud]

Originally Posted by shijinn

pricing on Naxx will be released in a few days. i hope gold can be used because i've saved up 2k for it. it isn't much but i think you can buy parts of the expansion piecemeal.

http://us.battle.net/hearthstone/en/...13271477080#13

They've definitely said that Naxx will be buyable with in-game currency. My guess is 2K should cover the whole thing (that's how much I've saved up). They certainly want to make it reachable for people who haven't spent a month saving up.

[Yllaria]

What is up with people suiciding in ranked play as soon as the game opens? What is the point of giving up before the first card is played?

[Jragon]

Originally Posted by Yllaria

What is up with people suiciding in ranked play as soon as the game opens? What is the point of giving up before the first card is played?

They're artificially keeping their rank low. You get the same amount of gold for 3 wins whether you're in Legend or rank 20, so they suicide to keep themselves 20-18 and usually run some sort of all-in aggro deck because they know they can consistently pull off quick, no-effort wins and farm gold really quickly.

[Yllaria]

Thanks. That makes sense.

[Palooka]

Sometimes people just don't want to play against an unfavourable matchup. For example, burn Mages just can't beat control Warriors. That match still takes 20 minutes though, so people just give up immediately. So people who leave immediately aren't necessarily doing something scummy like farming newbies.

[Jragon]

Originally Posted by Palooka

Sometimes people just don't want to play against an unfavourable matchup. For example, burn Mages just can't beat control Warriors. That match still takes 20 minutes though, so people just give up immediately. So people who leave immediately aren't necessarily doing something scummy like farming newbies.

True, there were a couple times in beta where I insta quit against priests. They were FOTM at the time and while I had a decent win rate against them, a lot of times I went "fuck it" against like the 15th priest in a row (not an exaggeration) just because 30 minute matches against "fuck you, I own all your cards" decks were obnoxious.

[bldysabba]

I've also heard of 'win trading'. I don't know what it is, but I presume its a bunch of people who keep losing against each other, so they farm gold like that.

[Tabby_Cat]

Also to farm for golden portraits. Best to get out of rank 20 ASAP if you actually want to play.

[Grumman]

Originally Posted by Palooka

Sometimes people just don't want to play against an unfavourable matchup. For example, burn Mages just can't beat control Warriors. That match still takes 20 minutes though, so people just give up immediately. So people who leave immediately aren't necessarily doing something scummy like farming newbies.

This. I hate Zoo decks and everyone who plays them. After you've played three or four of the bastards in a row, you just get sick of it and want to find someone better to play against.

[shijinn]

Originally Posted by Tom Scud

They've definitely said that Naxx will be buyable with in-game currency. My guess is 2K should cover the whole thing (that's how much I've saved up). They certainly want to make it reachable for people who haven't spent a month saving up.

i hear that you will be getting 30+ cards with the expansion. that is a very reasonable price if so.

[shijinn]

http://us.battle.net/hearthstone/en/...7080?page=5#91

i'm used to them pushing back release dates for new games or patches or whatever but, pricing information? that's odd.

[Jragon]

Man, I feel kind of bad, I just beat up the same mage twice in a row getting to rank 20 before tomorrow. It wasn't even fair. Like, I'm pretty sure he was using the nearly unplayable default deck unfair.

[bldysabba]

Originally Posted by Jragon

Man, I feel kind of bad, I just beat up the same mage twice in a row getting to rank 20 before tomorrow. It wasn't even fair. Like, I'm pretty sure he was using the nearly unplayable default deck unfair.

If I'm playing a late game control deck(typically priest) and come up against one of those, I make it a point not to play the legendaries, since I'm usually pretty far ahead anyway. It feels wrong.

[Tabby_Cat]

So anyone going for ranked this season? I always think I want to rank up... and end up playing arena more than anything.

[CrimeThink]

I might try now that I have two complete decks that I think are viable. I finished up at rank 5 pretty much only playing ranked in order to complete daily quests and to get a little more gold to play arenas.

[Hamlet]

Originally Posted by Tabby_Cat

So anyone going for ranked this season? I always think I want to rank up... and end up playing arena more than anything.

I've blown through our money for Arena and now have to grind for gold in the ranked once again. And while our cards and playing have gotten a ton better, I'm still incredibly frustrated by the massive amount of people with killer decks who are playing ranked games in the 19-17 range. I hate those guys.

[bldysabba]

Originally Posted by Hamlet

I've blown through our money for Arena and now have to grind for gold in the ranked once again. And while our cards and playing have gotten a ton better, I'm still incredibly frustrated by the massive amount of people with killer decks who are playing ranked games in the 19-17 range. I hate those guys.

The beginning of a season(month) will have many more people with good decks at lower ranks, since everyone loses ranks to some degree each month.

[Tabby_Cat]

If you mean like right now, that's because of the season reset. I got bumped down to 19, so you might be seeing me.

I was using an old aggro mage deck though, 80% of the cards are basic and common. Only legendary is Thalnos, but I could have easily replaced him with somebody else, probably novice or Gnomish Inventor.

[Hamlet]

Originally Posted by Tabby_Cat

If you mean like right now, that's because of the season reset. I got bumped down to 19, so you might be seeing me.

How far do you get bumped down? I've just lost 3 in a row, seeing a Murloc deck with 2 Old Murk Eyes and 2 Warleaders and a deck with 2 faceless manipulators, a Leroy, and a blood knight coming out in the second round. It's annoying as hell.

[bldysabba]

Originally Posted by Hamlet

seeing a Murloc deck with 2 Old Murk Eyes

You must be mistaken. It is not possible to have two of these cards in one deck.

[Hamlet]

Originally Posted by bldysabba

You must be mistaken. It is not possible to have two of these cards in one deck.

I had one with my priest's Mind Vision. Until you mentioned it and I looked further, I had assumed I was stealing the card (so the one I got would have been the second), and not just copying it. Good to know.

[Tabby_Cat]

Sounds like a Murlock deck. You have to know how to handle these - blow all your removal, because he's got nothing that's worth removing until he gets a bunch and they all buff each other, then you're totally screwed regardless of how much removal you have.

I got dropped from 11 to 19, it's usual. Basically, you get a star for each rank you have, but the math is too complicated - just figure you'll end up somewhere from 10-20, depending on how high you were before.

[shijinn]

i'll repeat this again - as it stands ranked is not for the casual player. at all.

iinm, the highest possible rank you can get after a reset is 16. with the monthly season resets and no real rewards for climbing the ladder, i'll wag that half of the player base is around rank 20-15 throughout the season. if you need to rage, question why the system is the way it is rather than the hapless people forced to fight each other half of the time regardless of ability. i certainly have not found an answer.

the only reason i'm reiterating this yet again is because i too, was initially baffled by the rank system, but the sooner you realise that there is currently no good place in the rank system for lower level players the less frustration you'll feel.

i also love priests, it's my main character. but they are the hardest to play atm, especially so if you do not have access to all the priest cards.

[Tabby_Cat]

but.. but.. I like seeing shiny stars.

[shijinn]

sorry that was a reply for Hamlet. i play ranked too - if you're having fun, then that is all that matters

[Grumman]

Originally Posted by shijinn

i'll repeat this again - as it stands ranked is not for the casual player. at all.

Nowhere is for the casual player. Constructed is infested with netdeckers in both Ranked and "Casual" and sticking to Arena was deliberately designed to be impossible - you need at least a 70% win rate to fund a second round of Arena, and the only way that can happen is by driving "everyone else"'s win rate below 50%.

[Palooka]

You're going to stabilize at your skill level in either ranked or unranked play. Doesn't matter which one you choose.

[Hamlet]

Originally Posted by Palooka

You're going to stabilize at your skill level in either ranked or unranked play. Doesn't matter which one you choose.

As I stated before, I don't have a problem losing due to my "skill level". I don't have a problem being in rank 19, if that's where my "skill level is stabilized". What I hate is the sheer number of people with decks that are clearly far superior to mine being in the same level.

I tend to agree with both shijin and Grumann, there is no place for either low level players or for people with iffy decks to play without being frustrated. I should just make my peace with the fact it's either grind through the frustration to get gold to get Arena to get passable cards or to pay money.

[Tabby_Cat]

As I said, I really think it's worthwhile to spend say $40, or even just $15, to goose your collection. You don't need many rares, you very rarely need epics, and you definitely don't need legendaries to do well. But using the basic deck will leave you with a sour taste in your mouth, and unless you have enough time and endurance to grind through it, you'll end up hating the game.

That's just how it is with all CCGs, unfortunately.

[shijinn]

apart from the challenge, i love progressing piecemeal. every new card you get is another round of figuring out your own deck composition and whether the new card has a place for it somewhere. it's nice, for example, to figure out decks like Zoolock before you found out it had a widely accepted name.

the thing is that it is not immediately apparent that Ranked has no place for matching people of your skill level in the long term, so a lot of new players get burned by it. iinm, Casual uses your MMR to match you so it is relatively better. relatively.

[bldysabba]

I'm beginning to think arena rewards should be more closely tied to results. The last couple of times I hit 10 wins I got something close to 150 gold which was pretty disappointing, but just now I hit 8 wins and got almost 250 gold for it. This happens between 4 and 7 wins too. Sometimes 6 wins get you less gold than 4 or 5. I know there're random factors to the rewards, but its dumb. There's already so much randomness in the game. Once I've run that gauntlet, let me have some more assured gold dammit!

[shijinn]

if you got more gold with less wins, it probably means you'd got dust or cards instead.

[Jragon]

Yeah, I think the arena rewards are set to be equivalent to a certain value (or small range of values). So you'll always get <x> gold, but exactly how that's split between real gold, dust, and expert packs is randomized.

[Jragon]

I had the funniest arena match with a mage with a bunch of secrets. She must have thought I was insane or stupid giving her a bunch of yetis (given the "thank you" she said every time it happened), and vaporizing them on her. In truth, I was playing around her secrets. Those were the weakest monsters in my hand. I ended up stomping her once late game hit. (I unfortunately drew what amounts to a late game control deck in arena. Still 4-3 ain't too bad).

[bldysabba]

Originally Posted by shijinn

if you got more gold with less wins, it probably means you'd got dust or cards instead.

Maybe, but I don't even look at the dust/card rewards. Do you guys?

On a different note, one HUGE thing I think is missing from the game is stats tracking. I don't understand why it isn't there. It would be brilliant to be able to keep track of your statistics, with even a halfway powerful tracker that allowed you to look at win rates by class and time and match type.

[Tabby_Cat]

Of course I look at the rewards! Man! I'm actually rather upset when I get cards/dust when I could be getting gold, I'd like to go infinite someday, but I seem to range between 1-6 wins in arena, never 7. Guess I'm just kinda bad at this, will probably come with experience.

Still the meta around 20 seems whack right now, so much taunt! Every game I see a Shieldmasta, it seems. I've basically stopped playing my Miracle Rogue and started playing my Mill Rogue, always fun to send cards back, and back, and back... managed to get someone to burn his Gagetzan (a miracle druid with Gagetzan and Moonfire), that was good.

[bldysabba]

Originally Posted by Tabby_Cat

Of course I look at the rewards! Man! I'm actually rather upset when I get cards/dust when I could be getting gold, I'd like to go infinite someday, but I seem to range between 1-6 wins in arena, never 7. Guess I'm just kinda bad at this, will probably come with experience.

I missed this post. I was actually asking if dust and card rewards were important to people, because I never even look at them. Seems you don't like them either.

In other news, I just got my second 12 win run, with an archetype Rogue deck. I even took a screenshot of the deck! Link - http://imgur.com/X1dluQI

It's a great mix of early drops, AoE, removal and some card draw. I was finishing most games by turn 6 or 7. My last two games(after the screenshot) were against the same druid. I lost the first one. I had a slowish start and he put out a wild growth on turn 1. The next game I got a rematch, and finished with 12-2. I only got gold(and the usual pack) in the rewards, which was really cool also. More than 450 gold all told.

[Hamlet]

Yeah, I'm done with this game. The matching is broken and it isn't fun. Best of luck and thanks for the advice all.

[shijinn]

http://us.battle.net/hearthstone/en/...-mode-7-8-2014

... After the Arachnid Quarter, the next four wings can be purchased for 700 gold per wing or $6.99 per wing. ...

2800 gold. not bad. about 4ish arena tickets per wing.

Originally Posted by bldysabba

... I was actually asking if dust and card rewards were important to people, because I never even look at them. Seems you don't like them either. ...

but we need dust to craft cards we want, or just get cards if we're happy with the luck of the draw...

[Grumman]

Originally Posted by shijinn

but we need dust to craft cards we want, or just get cards if we're happy with the luck of the draw...

You need a lot of dust. If you win dust in Arena, you're only getting enough dust to craft two commons at best.

[Palooka]

The arena 50-dust reward is basically an extra pack, when you're dusting everything 90% of the time anyway. It's easy to undervalue it.

I don't have 2800 gold, but I saved enough that getting there in four weeks is trivial. I kind of want to drop the $20 anyway though, since thinking about it as $20 for 28 packs is a pretty good conversion. That was probably the purpose of their pricing though, so I ain't gonna play ball.

[Tabby_Cat]

I like arena too much to save up that much gold... Are you guys positive on arena?

[Yllaria]

Originally Posted by Grumman

. . . the only way that can happen is by driving "everyone else"'s win rate below 50%.

Hey, I'm doing what I can to help everyone with this.

Originally Posted by Grumman

You need a lot of dust. If you win dust in Arena, you're only getting enough dust to craft two commons at best.

Yeah, it's slow. But disenchanting cards that are extras or aren't useful helps.

[Tom Scud]

I had built up a 2000-gold warchest, then went slightly positive in the next few arenas (mainly by not playing one every day) so I'm within spitting distance of 2800; a bit steeper than I was hoping but not bad.

[bldysabba]

Originally Posted by Tabby_Cat

I like arena too much to save up that much gold... Are you guys positive on arena?

I thought I was a couple of months ago, but then I came down to nearly zero with a losing streak. Now I'm back up to around 1800 gold. So I'm not sure. I think I am positive, but there's no way to be certain. I play Arena almost exclusively.

[shijinn]

at 60 gold a day from quests and one or two arena matches a day, i guess that keeps me afloat.