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  #401  
Old 02-01-2018, 12:15 PM
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1D is a natural bid, right, not Better Minor? Showing 4+ cards in the suit?

(1) You must bid at least 2D to show diamond support. If partner has 3 hearts, he will mention them on his next bid. Given you have a singleton spade and a doubleton club and four card support for partner I would be strongly tempted to uprate the hand to 3D.

(2) I would plead mechanical error. Then bid 3D. You have no sure side entries to your hearts (maybe a late diamond, maybe the Queen of Clubs) and you have support for partner's suit. Your simple, not jump, repetition of the hearts indicates (to me) a very weak hand with a 6 card suit, 3 or fewer clubs (if you had 4 you would have mentioned them in response to partner's double), and not even 3 card support for partner. Partner is probably putting you at something like a 2-6-2-3 distribution. From his bidding, partner has 4 or more diamonds, 3 or more clubs, 2 or fewer hearts, and 3+ spades including the King or Ace or both (possibly 2 if the minors are solid).
  #402  
Old 02-01-2018, 12:38 PM
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We've agreed SAYC — five-card majors. I guess some infer that the only pattern that opens 1D with three-bagger is 4-4-3-2 specifically.
  #403  
Old 02-01-2018, 01:46 PM
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Originally Posted by septimus View Post
We've agreed SAYC — five-card majors.
That changes much.

In (1) bid 2 Diamonds, but I would not uprate the hand.

In (2) I follow the advice that when you're in a misfit, you pass.
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  #404  
Old 02-01-2018, 02:10 PM
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Originally Posted by septimus View Post
New hand.
Just finished a session. So many disasters to choose from. Only this one might be interesting:
♠ 9
AQT873
8764
♣ Q7
Nobody vulnerable. Partner deals and bids One Diamond. RHO passes; you bid One Heart. The auction continues One Spade - Double - Pass.

(1) What do you call now?

Assume (pleading Tourette's Syndrome if necessary) that you bid Two Hearts. The auction continues Pass - Two No Trump - Pass.

(2) What do you call now?
1) 2H rather than 2D
2) 3D

The double of 1S is not a support double? (shows 3 hearts). I would bid 4H if so.

Last edited by K364; 02-01-2018 at 02:13 PM.
  #405  
Old 02-01-2018, 04:50 PM
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You'd bid 3D on a (possible) 7 card fit? Partner might be bidding on T95.
  #406  
Old 02-01-2018, 04:58 PM
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Quartz - in two of your previous posts you supported diamonds.

I'm quite happy how I've described my hand - having 10 red cards we are still ok. If partner has a singleton heart, then he must have a four card or longer diamond suit. And if he is 2-3 in the reds he will give preference back to hearts.

Last edited by K364; 02-01-2018 at 04:58 PM.
  #407  
Old 02-01-2018, 06:06 PM
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Rightly or wrongly (and although you've never discussed it) both you and partner assume that the Double of One Spade is for penalties, there being only one unbid suit. How do others play it?
  #408  
Old 02-01-2018, 06:12 PM
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Originally Posted by K364 View Post
Quartz - in two of your previous posts you supported diamonds.
Yes. In the first, I was unaware you were playing Better Minor.

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I'm quite happy how I've described my hand - having 10 red cards we are still ok. If partner has a singleton heart, then he must have a four card or longer diamond suit.
That's a big if. At the point of your first bid, all partner knows is that you have 4+ hearts and 5+ points.

Quote:
And if he is 2-3 in the reds he will give preference back to hearts.
Well yes, but now you're committing your partnership to trying to make 9 tricks rather than 8. Also, the lead will be going through Dummy's spades rather than up to them.

Last edited by Quartz; 02-01-2018 at 06:15 PM.
  #409  
Old 02-01-2018, 06:14 PM
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Originally Posted by septimus View Post
Rightly or wrongly (and although you've never discussed it) both you and partner assume that the Double of One Spade is for penalties, there being only one unbid suit. How do others play it?
I interpreted it as 'Tell me more about your hand'. The Unassuming Cue Bid of 2S pushes everything to the 3 level which consumes too much bidding space.
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  #410  
Old 02-01-2018, 06:25 PM
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I'm guessing in SAYC the double is for penalties, strongly implying 4 spades and 1 heart. I'm not strong enough to leave it in so I bid 2H, almost guaranteeing 6+ cards.

Partner's 2NT is a little bit weird. I guess he has something like:
KJxx
x
AKxxx
KTx

Last edited by K364; 02-01-2018 at 06:30 PM.
  #411  
Old 02-01-2018, 06:30 PM
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I figure that the 'free' Pass is a way to ask Tell me about your hand. Yes, Pass is one of the possible answers to the free Pass, but Pass is always a possibility — unless opener makes an (uncontested) rebid of 3 Clubs or higher. If Opener intended to rebid 1 Spade himself, Double is the natural descriptive call.

With this approach there's much overlap between a penalty Double and a 1NT rebid, so maybe this is a bad treatment. But partner and I have a simple style and, again, hadn't discussed the auction.
  #412  
Old 02-01-2018, 07:05 PM
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14 HCP with a possible minimal response from partner - so points are possible 20-20 - is not a good reason for a penalty double, especially non-vulnerable. The bidder of 1S is showing 5+ spades, remember. For a NT rebid by opener I would like to see a heart honour in partner's hand if it's a singleton and would expect two hearts. Remember that a 2H rebid is the weakest of responses. Partner cannot expect any outside entries. If you are expecting the hand you described above, then a 3D rebid is indeed warranted, though I would expect a bid of 2D instead of a double.

The bidding by both sides doesn't make sense. LHO - who bid spades - can only have 5 spades, else would have repeated the suit with 6, which means that RHO has 3 or 4 spades and should have raised to 2S or 3S respectively. Note that LHO does not have a balanced hand with cover in hearts and diamonds and good points else the bid would have been 1NT. Nor does LHO have poor points and a 6 card spade suit else the bid would have been 2S, a Weak Jump Overcall. Nor has LHO doubled for take-out, possibly indicating shortage in clubs. So perhaps LHO holds something like S:ATxxx H:xxx D:Kxx C:AK.
  #413  
Old 02-01-2018, 07:33 PM
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Well I play support doubles so the bidding wouldn't go like that. My partner has promised exactly 3 hearts. Assuming you don't what can his distribution be?
I can't see how he doesn't have at least 4 diamonds. And must be semi-balanced

Playing 5 card majors he probably has at most 4 spades, probably at most 2 hearts as you rebid hearts and he took you out. So he's 4-3 in the minors 4 must be in diamonds as he bid those, put him back into diamonds. Or he has longer diamonds than that so put him in diamonds. If you play 4 card majors then even more likely he has long diamonds
  #414  
Old 02-02-2018, 07:36 AM
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Please cancel the discussion of this 1-6-4-2 hand. (@ Mods: can you just delete the last 14 posts?)

Looking again at the so-called "problem" hand above — my partner's hand — I now see that it was I who grossly and stupidly misbid. I was uncertain what kind of hand partner was showing and ended up so befuddled I made an indefensible Pass over 3H, an action so wrong it would be too embarrassing to reveal my hand.

Please: Show me mercy and let's just drop discussion of this hand.
  #415  
Old 02-02-2018, 08:34 AM
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Whilst we're on the subject of disasters - this auction went a good way to costing us a teams match last night:

S XXX
H Kx
D Ax
C Axxxxx

Vuln with no opps bidding, you open 1C and hear 1H from pard. Rebid 2C and pard jump reverses into 3S. What is your bid?
  #416  
Old 02-02-2018, 10:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Busy Scissors View Post
Whilst we're on the subject of disasters - this auction went a good way to costing us a teams match last night:

S XXX
H Kx
D Ax
C Axxxxx

Vuln with no opps bidding, you open 1C and hear 1H from pard. Rebid 2C and pard jump reverses into 3S. What is your bid?
With all my partners 3S would be a splinter, so I am very interested and bid 4D. I suspect you have a different meaning, though.
  #417  
Old 02-02-2018, 12:56 PM
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With all my partners 3S would be a splinter, so I am very interested and bid 4D. I suspect you have a different meaning, though.
Probably should show a splinter but it's natural here. So it's likely a simple preference situation and then pard can take the reins - I bid 4H.

What actually happened was that pard had a mental aberration and actually holds 6 spades, but wanted to reverse to show a strong hand Now reversing into a longer major suit is obviously a crime against bridge and his partnership privileges are under review, but I was still questioning myself for bidding 4H. Led to an impossible 6H when 6S is cold. I think 3S has to show a beast of a two-suiter so I should just bid my longer major.
  #418  
Old 02-02-2018, 03:31 PM
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Since 2S would already be a strong force, 3S should show a huge hand, probably 5-6 or 5-7. With both outside Aces and some length in both of partner's suits, your hand is very good. Start with 4D.
  #419  
Old 02-02-2018, 06:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Busy Scissors View Post
Vuln with no opps bidding, you open 1C and hear 1H from pard. Rebid 2C and pard jump reverses into 3S. What is your bid?
I would expect my partner to be at least 5 - 5 in the majors and probably 5-6 if not 6-6 with good points so give preference by bidding 4S. Remember that as responder you show the lower-ranked suit first if the lengths are equal. (The exception is bidding a 4 card spade suit at the 1 level in preference to a 5 card suit at the 2 level.) I know that your partner is not following these rules! Partner knows I don't have four spades because I did not bid them on my second bid, and his bid indicates he can tolerate that so now is the time to let him know I have three. Partner also knows that I have a bare minimum hand as I simply repeated my suit. Partner can then bid 4N for Blackwood if desired. Could bidding 4D be seen as 4th suit forcing? You have not agreed a suit and you don't want to end up in 6N.
  #420  
Old 02-02-2018, 11:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Quartz View Post
Remember that as responder you show the lower-ranked suit first if the lengths are equal.
Is this really true? With both majors, I'll respond 1H if 4-4, but 1S if 5-5. With 5-5 in spades and diamonds, I'll usually bid the spades first.
  #421  
Old 02-03-2018, 04:42 AM
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Is this really true? With both majors, I'll respond 1H if 4-4, but 1S if 5-5. With 5-5 in spades and diamonds, I'll usually bid the spades first.
Yes, because it gives your side more bidding space. It is, however, difficult, particularly if partner is 4-4-4-1.
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  #422  
Old 02-03-2018, 07:54 AM
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Originally Posted by septimus View Post
Is this really true? With both majors, I'll respond 1H if 4-4, but 1S if 5-5. With 5-5 in spades and diamonds, I'll usually bid the spades first.
No, it is not true. Your method is correct.
  #423  
Old 02-03-2018, 10:48 AM
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Originally Posted by amarone View Post
No, it is not true. Your method is correct.
Would you care to elaborate? As that's not what I've been taught. Opener bids same-length suits down; responder bids the same-length suits up.

Imagine opener is 4-5 in Hearts and Clubs so opens 1C. You are 5-5 in the majors and so you bid 1S where I bid 1H. In my case I respond 1H and the heart fit is found and opener can bid 2H (or more) agreeing the heart suit safely as he knows there are 8+ trumps but in your case you bid 1S the opener has to decide if bidding his 4 card Heart suit at the 2 level is worthwhile. After all, you might only have a singleton or doubleton and to revert to clubs afterwards requires bidding at the 3 level.

There's another maxim taught hereabouts: always try to give your partner the opportunity to bid 1S.

Last edited by Quartz; 02-03-2018 at 10:51 AM.
  #424  
Old 02-03-2018, 11:12 AM
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If your hand is only worth one bid, then you may bid your stronger 5-card major; giving up on finding a 5-3 fit in the other major. But if you plan on bidding both suits, bid the higher of touching suits first — this makes your rebidd lower. (Otherwise you've "reversed" — forced partner to give preference to your first suit at the 3-level.)
  #425  
Old 02-03-2018, 04:49 PM
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Would you care to elaborate? As that's not what I've been taught. Opener bids same-length suits down; responder bids the same-length suits up.
To be honest, I've never heard of the idea of responder bidding same-length suits up, other than when 4-4.

Here's a cite
Quote:
Here are responder’s choices, in order:....
With two 5 card or longer suits, bid the higher ranking.
With only 4 card suits, bid up the line
And another.

Quote:
If you have four ♥'s and four ♠'s you bid 1♥. Four card suits up the line.
If you are 5-5 or 6-6 (highly unlikely) in the majors bid ♠'s (five or six card suits down the line).


Quote:
Imagine opener is 4-5 in Hearts and Clubs so opens 1C. You are 5-5 in the majors and so you bid 1S where I bid 1H. In my case I respond 1H and the heart fit is found and opener can bid 2H (or more) agreeing the heart suit safely as he knows there are 8+ trumps but in your case you bid 1S the opener has to decide if bidding his 4 card Heart suit at the 2 level is worthwhile. After all, you might only have a singleton or doubleton and to revert to clubs afterwards requires bidding at the 3 level.
Opener will only bid 2H over my 1S with reversing values. If, instead, opener bids 1NT, I can bid 2H, non-forcing, thereby showing at least 5-4. Or if I have an invitational hand or better, I can use new minor forcing/checkback/XYZ (whatever you play) to find a heart fit or a 5-3 spade fit, or can bid 3H to show 5-5.

More frequently than you being 4-5 in Hearts/Clubs, you will be 3-5 or 3-4 in spades/clubs. After a 1C opening, if you respond 1H with 5-5, partner is not going to bid 1S on a 3-card suit, so will likely bid 1NT. Now what? Unless you have at least invitational values you cannot bid 2S and you have missed a spade fit.
  #426  
Old 02-03-2018, 05:10 PM
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Originally Posted by amarone View Post
Opener will only bid 2H over my 1S with reversing values. If, instead, opener bids 1NT,
That's a big if. With an unbalanced hand, opener might feel forced to rebid 2C.

Quote:
More frequently than you being 4-5 in Hearts/Clubs, you will be 3-5 or 3-4 in spades/clubs. After a 1C opening, if you respond 1H with 5-5, partner is not going to bid 1S on a 3-card suit, so will likely bid 1NT.
And now you know that partner does not have 4 Hearts and does not have 4 Spades but does have a balanced hand (but perhaps only a single honour in your suit - the least lie). so you raise NTs or use Checkback Stayman as appropriate.

Quote:
Now what? Unless you have at least invitational values you cannot bid 2S and you have missed a spade fit.
Sorry, but a response of 1H to 1C allows the opener to bid 1S. Failure to do so indicates 3 or fewer cards. Therefore you probably do not have a Spade fit. You're also depending upon opener rebidding in NTs. What if opener rebids 2C?

Useful cites, BTW. They run contrary to what I've been taught, but that's nothing new.
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Old 02-03-2018, 05:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Quartz View Post
That's a big if. With an unbalanced hand, opener might feel forced to rebid 2C.
In which case you can still bid 2H, thereby showing at oeast 5-4 and opener can bid 2S with 3 or raise hearts with 4.



Quote:
And now you know that partner does not have 4 Hearts and does not have 4 Spades but does have a balanced hand (but perhaps only a single honour in your suit - the least lie). so you raise NTs or use Checkback Stayman as appropriate.
We are talking about how to respond with 55 in the majors. Bidding hearts then raising NT means we will miss a 5-3 spade fit and probably a 5-3 heart fit. Bidding Checkback will allow us to find a 5-3 heart fit, but we still miss a 5-3 spade fit. And Checkback is normally only used with hands that are invitational or better, so if you have a weak 5-5, you will be forced to pass partner's 1NT rebid (or possibly rebid 2H), thereby missing all 5-3 major suit fits.



Quote:
Sorry, but a response of 1H to 1C allows the opener to bid 1S. Failure to do so indicates 3 or fewer cards. Therefore you probably do not have a Spade fit.
again, we are talking about responding with 5-5 in the majors. We may very well have a spade fit.

Quote:
You're also depending upon opener rebidding in NTs. What if opener rebids 2C?
No I am not - already covered in earlier answers in this post.

Quote:
Useful cites, BTW. They run contrary to what I've been taught, but that's nothing new.
I know you have takend lessons from some very good players. I suggest you ask them again about this because I would be very surprised if they recommend you respond 1H with 5-5 in the majors.
  #428  
Old 02-04-2018, 07:09 AM
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Just for fun, I tried to guess how responder should bid with 5-5 or 5-6-shaped hands of increasing strength. How did I do? (Jump shift may not be an option with the big hands — many pairs play that the immediate jump-shift is permitted with a two-suiter only when one of the suit's is partner's.)

Jxxxx 9xxxx - xxx               1D Pass
KTxxx 9xxxx - xxx               1D 1H 2D Pass -OR- 1D 1H 1S 2S
QTxxx 9xxxxx - Qx               1D 1S 2D 2H 3S Pass
KTxxx 9xxxxx - Kx               1D 1S 2D 2H 2S Pass
KTxxx Q9xxxx - Kx               1D 1S 2D 2H 2S 3S
KJTxx K9xxxx - Kx               1D 1S 2D 2H 2S 3H? is 3H forcing?
KQTxx KJ9xxx - Kx               1D 1H 2D 2S 3D 3S
KQTxx KQ9xxx - Ax               1D 1H 2D 2S 3D 4H
AQ9xx KQ9xxx - AJ               1D 1H 2D 3S
  #429  
Old 02-04-2018, 08:09 AM
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Originally Posted by septimus View Post
Just for fun, I tried to guess how responder should bid with 5-5 or 5-6-shaped hands of increasing strength. How did I do? (Jump shift may not be an option with the big hands — many pairs play that the immediate jump-shift is permitted with a two-suiter only when one of the suit's is partner's.)

Jxxxx 9xxxx - xxx 1D Pass
KTxxx 9xxxx - xxx 1D 1H 2D Pass -OR- 1D 1H 1S 2S
QTxxx 9xxxxx - Qx 1D 1S 2D 2H 3S Pass
KTxxx 9xxxxx - Kx 1D 1S 2D 2H 2S Pass
KTxxx Q9xxxx - Kx 1D 1S 2D 2H 2S 3S
KJTxx K9xxxx - Kx 1D 1S 2D 2H 2S 3H? is 3H forcing?
KQTxx KJ9xxx - Kx 1D 1H 2D 2S 3D 3S
KQTxx KQ9xxx - Ax 1D 1H 2D 2S 3D 4H
AQ9xx KQ9xxx - AJ 1D 1H 2D 3S
What I think you are getting into here, amongst other things, is when to lie about your shape because you are too weak to be able to show what you have without getting too high. So the 2nd you treat as a 4-4 and the next 3 as a 5-4/5. Having said that, I think I would bid 1S on the 2nd. That is what I want led (if partner does not lead diamonds) if we end up defending. I certainly do not want a heart lead.

On the 5th I would bid 1H and repeat them over 2D.

On the 6th, I think 3H is non-forcing. You can bid 3C, fourth suit forcing, to establish a force. However, I would respond 1H then bid 2S over 2D. As partner does not have 4 spades, this should strongly suggest a 5-6 hand. This is the same approach as you take with the next two hands, so our differences are just in how strong a hand you need to bid 1H then 2S.

A side note on a convention a lot of US experts play: Reverse Flannery. A response of 2H to partner's 1C/D opening shows 5-4 or 5-5, and less than an invitational hand. You could bid this on your 2nd, 3rd and 4th hands, despite the 6th heart. You might even do it on the 5th. A response of 2S to 1C/D shows the same distribution, but an invitational hand.

What would you open the 7th and 8th hands? With one partner I have started playing that opening 1S and rebidding 4H shows a minimum-ish hand (i.e. one not strong enough to reverse, which the last hand is) and 5-6. I have not played this long enough to know whether it is useful or not.
  #430  
Old 02-04-2018, 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by amarone View Post
...
On the 6th, I think 3H is non-forcing. You can bid 3C, fourth suit forcing, to establish a force. However, I would respond 1H then bid 2S over 2D. As partner does not have 4 spades, this should strongly suggest a 5-6 hand. This is the same approach as you take with the next two hands, so our differences are just in how strong a hand you need to bid 1H then 2S.
Mea culpa. My list was just in the unchecked "proof of concept" stage and that hand is plenty strong enough to reverse (which is not a game-force). Especially since, on the hands where you do make game opposite minimalish partner, you want to get to the 6-2 rather than the 5-2.
  #431  
Old 02-04-2018, 02:07 PM
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I always try to bid 4 card suits up the line and touching 5 card suits down the line. Anything else is a distortion and will confuse partner.

It's true the really weak 5-5 is only going to get one bid, and by responding 1S you might miss a heart fit. In the modern world of bridge, openings are light and the opponents are very reluctant to let you play at the one level so they might stick their noses into the auction. If so, partner will make some kind of competitive bid and you can show your hearts.

We used to play the auction below as non-forcing and no interest in game:

1D 1S
1NT 2H
  #432  
Old 02-22-2018, 12:06 PM
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Here's an odd hand from the other night. I held

S:ATxxx H:K D:- C:AJTxxxx

What would you open? What is your plan for the bidding?

Partner held S:Qxx H:Axxx D:KQx C:Qxx and I ended up in 5C going 1 down, losing the Ace of Diamonds, the King of Clubs, and the King of Spades. I couldn't discard on the diamonds because one opponent had a singleton and the other had 9! The lead was the Diamond Ace and then another diamond.
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Old 02-22-2018, 01:42 PM
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I'm surprised the auction didn't start 1C, 5D
  #434  
Old 02-22-2018, 02:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Quartz View Post
Here's an odd hand from the other night. I held

S:ATxxx H:K D:- C:AJTxxxx

What would you open? What is your plan for the bidding?

Partner held S:Qxx H:Axxx D:KQx C:Qxx and I ended up in 5C going 1 down, losing the Ace of Diamonds, the King of Clubs, and the King of Spades. I couldn't discard on the diamonds because one opponent had a singleton and the other had 9! The lead was the Diamond Ace and then another diamond.
Didn't you have a void in Diamonds? Why didn't you ruff the opening lead?
  #435  
Old 02-22-2018, 02:30 PM
merrick merrick is offline
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I may be missing something, but how did you lose AD when opponents led it into your void?
With the horrible diamond break I can see it losing two spades or a spade and a diamond ruff to go with the KC. Even so, 5C is a decent contract, though 4S is probably better.

Playing Acol, I'd open 1C, planning to rebid 1S and then 2S (or 2S and 3S). Some people would treat it as a 5-5 and open 1S, planning to rebid 3C and 4C.

Of course, in this case, the planned rebid becomes rather moot when LHO whacks in with some large number of diamonds.
  #436  
Old 02-22-2018, 06:00 PM
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I may be missing something, but how did you lose AD when opponents led it into your void?
You're not missing anything. I've mis-remembered the hand. There must be another loser, probably a spade.

The lead was definitely the Diamond Ace, which I ruffed. I remember the diamond King being ruffed and I had to over-ruff instead of discarding a losing spade. I was severely short of entries into dummy.
  #437  
Old 02-22-2018, 06:06 PM
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S:ATxxx H:K D:- C:AJTxxxx

What would you open? What is your plan for the bidding?
I open 1C, planning to bid 1S next. If partner bids 1NT over my 1C, I bid 2C.
  #438  
Old 02-22-2018, 07:13 PM
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You're not missing anything. I've mis-remembered the hand. There must be another loser, probably a spade.

The lead was definitely the Diamond Ace, which I ruffed. I remember the diamond King being ruffed and I had to over-ruff instead of discarding a losing spade. I was severely short of entries into dummy.
Ruff the lead. Then Ace of clubs, King of hearts, force entry to dummy by playing second round of trumps. Then you can discard three spades on the heart and diamond winners.

The only way this fails is if RHO has three trumps and holds up denying you the dummy entry. You will now need some luck in spades.
  #439  
Old 02-23-2018, 02:18 PM
merrick merrick is offline
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K364 - if you're not worried abut overtricks, a better line is to ruff DA, unblock HK and then play the Jack of clubs instead of the Ace. If clubs are 3-0 and a defender holds up the King, you follow with the Ten and now he must choose between letting you into dummy or watching his King go under the Ace. Now you throw 3 Spades on DKQ and HA and lose only CK and SK.

However in this case, it sounds like LHO won the singleton KC, then played a diamond for his partner to ruff the K. Now there are only 2 spade discards and you need to guess.
Since LHO must be short in Spades (he's shown up with 9 diamonds, KC and presumably followed to HK), the odds favour playing low to the Ten, but that loses to Jx or singleton J on your left. Seriously unlucky!

amarone Is that a SAYC convention that 1C may be 3 but the 2C rebid promises 6?
In Acol, 2C would be asking to be passed. (Not that I'd expect an uncontested 1C - P - 1NT - P very often. If partner has only enough points for 1NT and no suit for 1D or 1H, then opponents have about half the pack and length in at least one red suit.)
  #440  
Old 02-23-2018, 02:37 PM
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Merrick, I didn't realize that in my line of play, if LHO holds up til the third round, he'll be semi-endplayed having to put you back in the dummy with a red suit, or lead spades which would greatly enhance your chances of playing that suit for one loser.
  #441  
Old 02-24-2018, 06:45 AM
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Originally Posted by merrick View Post
amarone Is that a SAYC convention that 1C may be 3 but the 2C rebid promises 6?
In Acol, 2C would be asking to be passed. (Not that I'd expect an uncontested 1C - P - 1NT - P very often. If partner has only enough points for 1NT and no suit for 1D or 1H, then opponents have about half the pack and length in at least one red suit.)
I play 2/1, but think SAYC is the same in this auction - yes, 2C (almost always) shows 6. As you say, this sequence is not very likely. Opponents have at least 9 hearts and about half the points, so they are not keeping quiet. Rebidding 3C might work better than 2C. I rejected it as a) I don't want partner to bid 3NT with a balanced 8-count, and b) we will definitely miss a spade fit. If I do get to bid 2C, I expect opponents to bid and now can bid 2S without its being a reverse.
  #442  
Old 03-03-2018, 10:59 PM
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Had to call a director at the Regional Gold rush pairs game in Williamsburg today over this:

I was East not vulnerable with:

♤: 652
♡: A
♢: K876532
♧: 74

North (vulnerable) passes.
I bid 3♢
South thought and thought and finally passed after about 30 seconds. Partner passed and North bid 3♤.

They ended up in 3NT making 4.

North held:

♤: AJT43
♡: T32
♢: Q94
♧: QJ

My partner and I argued that this bid was based on North reading South's long pause as values and thus bidding on illegal information. The director agreed and the opps did not argue though they glared at us for complaining.

I think it was the right thing to do. We came in first for the round.
  #443  
Old 03-03-2018, 11:28 PM
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Very unethical call by North.
  #444  
Old 03-03-2018, 11:35 PM
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Very unethical call by North.
Yes. The director was very harsh to them and deservedly so.
  #445  
Old 03-04-2018, 05:08 AM
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Yes. you are most definitely not allowed to use unauthorised information.
__________________
Quartz
  #446  
Old 03-04-2018, 12:30 PM
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I haven't played duplicate for years, but i believe that if the dispute "went to committee", the committee was instructed to allow the questionable call only if three out of four good players would make the same call.
  #447  
Old 03-04-2018, 01:29 PM
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Here's a hand that we fluffed yesterday. Playing standard Acol, 4 card majors, weak NT.

North held S:xx H:xxxxx D:QJx C:Q9x and passed. South held S:A H:A D:AT987 C:AJTxxx and opened 1C. The response was 1H. South rebid 2C and the auction ended. 11 tricks were made. Where did we go wrong?

And another:

North held S:xx H:ATxx D:KJxx C:Axx and South S:Kxx H:x D:A9x C:KQxxxx. The bidding went 1C - 1D - 2C - Pass. 11 tricks are cold; 12 tricks made because the diamond Queen was doubleton. Oops.
  #448  
Old 03-04-2018, 06:01 PM
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Biotop:

SPOILER:
Now a Life Master!!!!!

Woo Hoo!!!
  #449  
Old 03-04-2018, 09:08 PM
merrick merrick is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quartz View Post
Here's a hand that we fluffed yesterday. Playing standard Acol, 4 card majors, weak NT.

North held S:xx H:xxxxx D:QJx C:Q9x and passed. South held S:A H:A D:AT987 C:AJTxxx and opened 1C. The response was 1H. South rebid 2C and the auction ended. 11 tricks were made. Where did we go wrong?

And another:

North held S:xx H:ATxx D:KJxx C:Axx and South S:Kxx H:x D:A9x C:KQxxxx. The bidding went 1C - 1D - 2C - Pass. 11 tricks are cold; 12 tricks made because the diamond Queen was doubleton. Oops.
I'll take a shot at this - in the first one, South is too strong for his simple 2C rebid, which shows no extra values other than the 5th Club. Yes, partner could be 4-6-2-1 with no entries, but the hand is so good that you could easily miss game. If South reverses with 2D, the North hand looks a whole lot better.

The second one is harder - South has a Club more than he's shown, but not the points for a jump to 3C. North has a flat 12-count opposite a probable 13-15 - 5C looks unlikely (which would make 3C pointless) and 2NT is very risky with nothing in Spades. Probably he should have bid 3C even though it's big odds-on to be passed, and South can make another effort.
And 5C is hardly cold unless opponents lead a Spade up to your King - at the least you need one of AS and QD right, plus you need to arrange a Spade ruff in dummy, or get lucky with Diamonds 3-3. So it's a marginal decision that resulted in missing a thin game,


Congratulations Biotop!
  #450  
Old 03-04-2018, 10:36 PM
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The second one...

I don't what's happening on the other side of the Atlantic, but even when I played years ago everybody bid like a maniac. Responder with 12 opposite a Opener with a good 6 card suit would result in 3NT or 5C pretty much all the time.

Anyway, on this hand Responder HAS to take another bid. HAS to.

Last edited by K364; 03-04-2018 at 10:36 PM.
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