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  #101  
Old 12-09-2018, 08:04 PM
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My team went from 4-1 to utter garbage seemingly in the blink of an eye.
Was it Hue Jacksonís eye?
  #102  
Old 12-09-2018, 08:06 PM
asterion asterion is offline
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What the heck was going on with that field in Oakland? They pulled a game from Estadio Azteca and that had better turf.
  #103  
Old 12-09-2018, 08:18 PM
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What the heck was going on with that field in Oakland? They pulled a game from Estadio Azteca and that had better turf.
The field is bad, the stadium leaks, sometimes the plumbing backs up. Thereís a reason theyíre leaving town.
  #104  
Old 12-09-2018, 08:35 PM
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Watching Khalil Mack and Aaron Donald on the same game is fun. They are amazing.
  #105  
Old 12-09-2018, 08:38 PM
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This phenomenon of the Chargers winning close games is very disconcerting.
  #106  
Old 12-09-2018, 09:01 PM
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Washington Redskins on their 4th QB of the season as Josh Johnson will start the next game. A team with playoff potential in October is now reduced to starting a guy that it thought was out of the league and selling used cars somewhere.
  #107  
Old 12-09-2018, 09:28 PM
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Gutsy fake punt call by the Rams. Love it.
  #108  
Old 12-09-2018, 09:59 PM
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I can’t tell if this Rams-Bears game is terrible or awesome. Maybe both?
  #109  
Old 12-09-2018, 10:29 PM
asterion asterion is offline
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It had a safety. So it's awesome.
  #110  
Old 12-09-2018, 11:18 PM
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I canít tell if this Rams-Bears game is terrible or awesome. Maybe both?
Both. Awesome defensive play. Terrible QB play. It's amazing a team can win with a QB who throws for 3 interceptions and less than 200 yards, but it's the Bears.
  #111  
Old 12-09-2018, 11:49 PM
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Both. Awesome defensive play. Terrible QB play. It's amazing a team can win with a QB who throws for 3 interceptions and less than 200 yards, but it's the Bears.
It helps when the other QB has four interceptions and only 180 yards. In other words, a bad QB is fine when your opponent has a worse one.
  #112  
Old 12-09-2018, 11:57 PM
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Browns since firing Hue Jackson: 3-2

Bengals since hiring Hue Jackson: 0-4
  #113  
Old 12-10-2018, 09:07 AM
Gus Gusterson Gus Gusterson is offline
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I'm no NFL genius, but why didn't the Pats go for a touchdown instead of kicking the field goal on their last possession? They're up 30-28. Even if they don't score at all, the only way the Dolphins can win with 7 seconds left is to make the play they made. The Dolphins wouldn't be able to make two plays in that time so there's no chance they're kicking a field goal. The Pats could have had 36 or 37 points and be sure to win. There's no difference between being up 2 or 5 points since the Dolphins will be getting 6 or nothing. Am I missing something?
  #114  
Old 12-10-2018, 09:25 AM
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The Pats were up by 2. The FG made the Fish get a TD, not an FG. A long FG try from midfield is still a better shot than a Hail Mary from a hobbled QB.
  #115  
Old 12-10-2018, 09:34 AM
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The Bears' defense played the greatest defensive game I've seen in the NFL in a long, long time in holding the Great Todd Gurley to 28 rushing yards and the beleaguered Goff to a 19.1 QB rating.

It was nothing less than awesome, and it overcame several gaffs by an obviously rusty Trubisky. To be able to still defeat a team like the Rams despite several turnovers of our own and only 15 points was nothing less than remarkable.

It's looking more and more like the a Saints'/Chiefs' Super Bowl. We shall see.
  #116  
Old 12-10-2018, 10:27 AM
Gus Gusterson Gus Gusterson is offline
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The Pats were up by 2. The FG made the Fish get a TD, not an FG. A long FG try from midfield is still a better shot than a Hail Mary from a hobbled QB.
The Dolphins got the ball at their own 31 with 7 seconds on the clock and no timeouts. To try for a field goal they would have to move the ball at least 20 yards and get out of bounds in less than 7 seconds. Even if they managed that, they had to then kick a long field goal. Realistically, the Dolphins had one play to score regardless of what the Pats did, so the field goal did nothing for the Pats. A TD would have put the game out of reach. The field goal left it within reach so the effect of making the FG was the same as missing it.
  #117  
Old 12-10-2018, 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Jasmine View Post
The Bears' defense played the greatest defensive game I've seen in the NFL in a long, long time in holding the Great Todd Gurley to 28 rushing yards and the beleaguered Goff to a 19.1 QB rating.

It was nothing less than awesome, and it overcame several gaffs by an obviously rusty Trubisky. To be able to still defeat a team like the Rams despite several turnovers of our own and only 15 points was nothing less than remarkable.

It's looking more and more like the a Saints'/Chiefs' Super Bowl. We shall see.
The Bears only TD came with 10 linemen on the field - their usual 5 starters with 4 defensive linemen checked in, a fake handoff to 6-5, 332 lb Akiem Hicks in the backfield (who had a diving TD last week) and play action to back up OT Bradley Sowell. Quite possibly the highest total weight on one given play.

I'm enjoying watching the Bears this year for sure. They've been pretty close in the games that they lost and they've been very good in the games that they've won. They have some shortcomings, namely an inconsistent kicker and the inability (or stubborn refusal) to feature Jordan Howard in the running game but they are fun to watch. Their use of trick plays don't seem to come from desperation but more from "Here's what we're going to do, hang on and watch this," and their defense is playing lights out. Plus they celebrate at Club Dub with a disco ball every time they win.

I don't think they can go all the way this year but it's a phenomenal turnaround for the team from the John Fox and Marc Trestman years.
  #118  
Old 12-10-2018, 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Gus Gusterson View Post
The Dolphins got the ball at their own 31 with 7 seconds on the clock and no timeouts. To try for a field goal they would have to move the ball at least 20 yards and get out of bounds in less than 7 seconds. Even if they managed that, they had to then kick a long field goal. Realistically, the Dolphins had one play to score regardless of what the Pats did, so the field goal did nothing for the Pats. A TD would have put the game out of reach. The field goal left it within reach so the effect of making the FG was the same as missing it.
The situation was 4th down on the Dolphins 4, with 21 seconds left. If the Pats had gone for a TD & failed, the Dolphins would have gotten the ball around their own 4, with at least 15 seconds left, assuming the failed TD couldn't have taken more than 6 seconds. That gives them time for one, maybe 2 long pass attempts up the sideline followed by a FG attempt - that seems at least somewhat more likely than a TD from their own 31 with only 7 seconds left on the clock.
  #119  
Old 12-10-2018, 12:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Gus Gusterson View Post
I'm no NFL genius, but why didn't the Pats go for a touchdown instead of kicking the field goal on their last possession? They're up 30-28. Even if they don't score at all, the only way the Dolphins can win with 7 seconds left is to make the play they made. The Dolphins wouldn't be able to make two plays in that time so there's no chance they're kicking a field goal. The Pats could have had 36 or 37 points and be sure to win. There's no difference between being up 2 or 5 points since the Dolphins will be getting 6 or nothing. Am I missing something?
I would probably have gone for the TD there, but one other thing you didn't mention is a defensive penalty on a hail mary (or whatever) would give the Dolphins an untimed down to kick a FG.
  #120  
Old 12-10-2018, 12:40 PM
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Washington Redskins on their 4th QB of the season as Josh Johnson will start the next game. A team with playoff potential in October is now reduced to starting a guy that it thought was out of the league and selling used cars somewhere.
If only there were somebody available who's capable of backing up Alex Smith.
  #121  
Old 12-10-2018, 12:46 PM
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Every new Washington quarterback who takes the stage gets told "Break a leg!".
  #122  
Old 12-10-2018, 01:02 PM
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Kaepernick's lawyers are probably pulling choice snippets from the latest Redskins game as evidence for their lawsuit. It really is ludicrous that anyone would choose Sanchez at QB over even trying to call Kaep.

Last edited by iiandyiiii; 12-10-2018 at 01:02 PM.
  #123  
Old 12-10-2018, 02:01 PM
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Reggie McKenzie is out

It's 100% Gruden's team now.
  #124  
Old 12-10-2018, 02:08 PM
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If only there were somebody available who's capable of backing up Alex Smith.
Yeah, before this week I hadn't heard anything about Josh Johnson since 2014. You know, when he was the third string QB in San Francisco.
  #125  
Old 12-10-2018, 02:53 PM
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So on that wacky last-moment lateral play by the Dolphins, who gets credit for the yardage? It shouldn't be the QB, because he only threw the first forward pass and had nothing to do with the subsequent laterals.
  #126  
Old 12-10-2018, 03:07 PM
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The QB still gets it, I'm pretty sure. It's just like a pass with a lot of yards after the catch, except the yards are split among three players. It counts as receiving yardage for Drake, even though the ball was lateraled to him.
  #127  
Old 12-10-2018, 03:20 PM
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Maybe they need stats for “assists” like basketball.
  #128  
Old 12-10-2018, 03:31 PM
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Ah ok thanks.

Another question: I know that in NFL new OT rules, if the team that wins the coin toss kicks a field goal, the other team gets a chance to respond. But what if the first team drains all the time off the OT clock and kicks a field goal as overtime expires? Does the 2nd team still get a "chance to respond?"
  #129  
Old 12-10-2018, 03:34 PM
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Ah ok thanks.

Another question: I know that in NFL new OT rules, if the team that wins the coin toss kicks a field goal, the other team gets a chance to respond. But what if the first team drains all the time off the OT clock and kicks a field goal as overtime expires? Does the 2nd team still get a "chance to respond?"
Nope, the end of OT is the end of the game.
  #130  
Old 12-10-2018, 03:46 PM
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Ah ok thanks.

Another question: I know that in NFL new OT rules, if the team that wins the coin toss kicks a field goal, the other team gets a chance to respond. But what if the first team drains all the time off the OT clock and kicks a field goal as overtime expires? Does the 2nd team still get a "chance to respond?"
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Nope, the end of OT is the end of the game.
That's the case for the regular season, but not the postseason. It's specifically addressed in the OT rules:

Section 4.a - Regular season:
"There shall be a maximum of one 10-minute period, even if the second team has not had an opportunity to possess the ball or if its initial possession has not ended. If the score is tied at the end of the period, the game shall result in a tie."

Section 5.a - Postseason:
"If the score is tied at the end of a 15-minute overtime period, or if the second teamís initial possession has not ended, another overtime period will begin, and play will continue, regardless of how many 15-minute periods are necessary."

So I think that means in the postseason, if the first team to get the ball somehow burns the whole 15 minutes and kicks a field goal as the clock expires, the second team still gets a possession.
  #131  
Old 12-10-2018, 04:13 PM
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This week, the longest drive was by the Jaguars, which gnawed 8:15 off the clock and ended on a 4th-and-goal at the 1. For a team to move the ball for 10 minutes (in the regular season) is basically unheard of (extremely rare), and between teams that have fought to a tie, not something to count on. If you can grind out ten minutes, you can almost certainly score a TD, which ends the game (the other team does not get a “chance to respond” to a TD).
  #132  
Old 12-10-2018, 04:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Gus Gusterson View Post
The Dolphins got the ball at their own 31 with 7 seconds on the clock and no timeouts. To try for a field goal they would have to move the ball at least 20 yards and get out of bounds in less than 7 seconds. Even if they managed that, they had to then kick a long field goal. Realistically, the Dolphins had one play to score regardless of what the Pats did, so the field goal did nothing for the Pats. A TD would have put the game out of reach. The field goal left it within reach so the effect of making the FG was the same as missing it.
You are confusing situations.

Assume the Patriots do not kick the field goal. Assume they attempt a TD, and fail. The ball turns over to the Dolphins at the spot of failure, with whatever time was left on the clock. I believe, IIRC, that was about 14 seconds. That's plenty of time for two targeted pass plays and a field goal to win.

As it was, the Patriots kicked the field goal, then had to kick off to the Dolphins. The Dolphins only got the ball where they did, when they did, after they attempted a kick-off return. So continuing to harp on "seven seconds" misses the point entirely.
  #133  
Old 12-10-2018, 06:59 PM
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You are confusing situations.

Assume the Patriots do not kick the field goal. Assume they attempt a TD, and fail. The ball turns over to the Dolphins at the spot of failure, with whatever time was left on the clock. I believe, IIRC, that was about 14 seconds. That's plenty of time for two targeted pass plays and a field goal to win.

As it was, the Patriots kicked the field goal, then had to kick off to the Dolphins. The Dolphins only got the ball where they did, when they did, after they attempted a kick-off return. So continuing to harp on "seven seconds" misses the point entirely.
New England called a timeout with 21 seconds on the clock, and they had the ball on the Miami 4 yard line, 4th down. They kicked the FG, which left 16 seconds on the clock. They then kicked off and after the kickoff return, seven seconds remained.

Had NE run a play with 21 seconds left, it almost certainly would have run 5 seconds or more off the clock. If they run a designed rollout which results in an incomplete pass, even more seconds are gone.

But assume that Miami gets the ball with 16 seconds left on their own four, down 2 points. The career long FG for their rookie kicker is 50 yards. So they would need to get to the NE 35 for a 52-yarder. That means they would have to move the ball about 60 yards in two plays, both of which need to end up with the receiver going out of bounds (or a defensive penalty). I like the defensive chances to prevent one of those two plays.

Hindsight is obviously great, but if I'm NE, I think I go for the TD rather than the FG.
  #134  
Old 12-10-2018, 08:21 PM
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key lime pie
  #135  
Old 12-10-2018, 09:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Railer13 View Post
New England called a timeout with 21 seconds on the clock, and they had the ball on the Miami 4 yard line, 4th down. They kicked the FG, which left 16 seconds on the clock. They then kicked off and after the kickoff return, seven seconds remained.

Had NE run a play with 21 seconds left, it almost certainly would have run 5 seconds or more off the clock. If they run a designed rollout which results in an incomplete pass, even more seconds are gone.

But assume that Miami gets the ball with 16 seconds left on their own four, down 2 points. The career long FG for their rookie kicker is 50 yards. So they would need to get to the NE 35 for a 52-yarder. That means they would have to move the ball about 60 yards in two plays, both of which need to end up with the receiver going out of bounds (or a defensive penalty). I like the defensive chances to prevent one of those two plays.

Hindsight is obviously great, but if I'm NE, I think I go for the TD rather than the FG.
Wrong.

How often in NFL history has a team done what the Dolphins did (score a TD starting at their 30 with no time outs and 7 seconds on the clock?

The answer to that question shows that NE did exactly the right thing. A miracle is not something you bother to try and strategize for.
  #136  
Old 12-10-2018, 09:50 PM
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Interesting sequence at the end of the first half. Minny had all 3 of their timeouts and opted not to use any with Seattle on a long drive moving the ball inside the red zone with potential to get another first down inside 2 minutes, which they ended up getting. Seattle then burned their final timeout and ran a designed QB rollout. Minny's pass rush was all over him and had him retreating backward. Normally a quarterback might take the sack when the game clock isn't a factor. Wilson coughed up a horrific interception that would have been an easy pick 6 if the defender didn't stumble.

1st & 10 at MIN 14
(1:44 - 2nd) M.Davis left end to MIN 10 for 4 yards

2nd & 6 at MIN 10
(1:04 - 2nd) M.Davis up the middle to MIN 5 for 5 yards

3rd & 1 at MIN 5
(0:25 - 2nd) (Shotgun) R.Wilson left tackle to MIN 1 for 4 yards

(0:16 - 2nd) Timeout #3 by SEA at 00:16.

1st & Goal at MIN 1
(0:16 - 2nd) (Shotgun) R.Wilson pass short right INTERCEPTED by E.Kendricks
  #137  
Old 12-10-2018, 09:57 PM
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Russell doesn’t screw up like that very often. A very rare dumb play from him. “Bonehead” was what the announcers said and I agree.
  #138  
Old 12-10-2018, 10:57 PM
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Well Seattle seems to be okay despite the disappointing end to the first half.
  #139  
Old 12-10-2018, 11:55 PM
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Originally Posted by muldoonthief View Post
That's the case for the regular season, but not the postseason. It's specifically addressed in the OT rules:

Section 4.a - Regular season:
"There shall be a maximum of one 10-minute period, even if the second team has not had an opportunity to possess the ball or if its initial possession has not ended. If the score is tied at the end of the period, the game shall result in a tie."

Section 5.a - Postseason:
"If the score is tied at the end of a 15-minute overtime period, or if the second teamís initial possession has not ended, another overtime period will begin, and play will continue, regardless of how many 15-minute periods are necessary."

So I think that means in the postseason, if the first team to get the ball somehow burns the whole 15 minutes and kicks a field goal as the clock expires, the second team still gets a possession.
Not even that. If the first team only takes 10 minutes off the clock and kicks a field goal or turns it over, the second team gets to finish their possession, whether it takes 3 minutes or 12.

The theoretical maximum possession from a touchback, 5 seconds per play (run three yards, fall down, pile up doesn't take very long), no fourth downs, no penalties, and exactly 10 yards per first down is is 18 minutes, with the last set of downs starting at the opponent's five. The actual longest NFL drive was just under 13 minutes while only going 53 yards, and the Navy Midshipmen took almost 15 minutes off the clock back in '04, though that drive started almost backed up against the Navy endzone. It's POSSIBLE to take up that much time, but it's highly improbable, given that it's never happened in over 10,000 NFL games.
  #140  
Old 12-11-2018, 03:47 AM
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I would just like to throw a shout-out to my beleaguered Giants, as a franchise. I remembered the Giants Bills Superbowl as involving many long drives by the Giants in an effort to keep Jim Kelly's K-Gun offense on the bench. The wiki article on that game states:

The Giants opened the 3rd quarter and resumed their original game strategy by driving 75 yards in 14 plays [...] The drive consumed a then-Super Bowl record 9:29 (since surpassed by the Giants in Super Bowl XLII)

So they set the record for longest drive in the Super Bowl in 1990, and then broke their own record in 2007. Where, of course, they were repeating the exact same strategy to keep Tom Brady on the bench.

That alone wasn't worth posting, until I saw this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chisquirrel View Post
The actual longest NFL drive was just under 13 minutes while only going 53 yards
That record was set by the Giants in the NFC Conference Championship game in 2000, when they annihilated the Vikings something like 41-0. It was weird that they canceled the Superbowl that year instead of playing it, but whatever.

As a franchise, the Giants sure do love long, clock-killing drives.

Last edited by Ellis Dee; 12-11-2018 at 03:51 AM.
  #141  
Old 12-11-2018, 09:22 AM
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Not even that. If the first team only takes 10 minutes off the clock and kicks a field goal or turns it over, the second team gets to finish their possession, whether it takes 3 minutes or 12.

The theoretical maximum possession from a touchback, 5 seconds per play (run three yards, fall down, pile up doesn't take very long), no fourth downs, no penalties, and exactly 10 yards per first down is is 18 minutes, with the last set of downs starting at the opponent's five. The actual longest NFL drive was just under 13 minutes while only going 53 yards, and the Navy Midshipmen took almost 15 minutes off the clock back in '04, though that drive started almost backed up against the Navy endzone. It's POSSIBLE to take up that much time, but it's highly improbable, given that it's never happened in over 10,000 NFL games.
Yes, that's correct. In the playoffs, if the first team gets a field goal, the second team gets a full possession no matter how long it takes. In the playoffs, the 15 minutes OT periods really only exist for keeping track of timeouts, switching sides, etc. The game is always played until there's a winner, and it's always sudden death after the first 2 possessions (if not decided earlier).
  #142  
Old 12-11-2018, 10:10 AM
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As a franchise, the Giants sure do love long, clock-killing drives.
Reminds me of the Steelers-Chargers playoff game in 2008, where the Chargers only ran one offensive play in the 3rd quarter. It was an interception
  #143  
Old 12-11-2018, 03:07 PM
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Wrong.

How often in NFL history has a team done what the Dolphins did (score a TD starting at their 30 with no time outs and 7 seconds on the clock?

The answer to that question shows that NE did exactly the right thing. A miracle is not something you bother to try and strategize for.
Obviously our opinions differ on this.

Now, had the Fins not run the kickoff out of the end zone, they would have had the ball at the 25 with 15 seconds left. And that would be enough time for two plays, the second of which would be the Hail Mary to the end zone. That, I believe, has been done in the past. But I don't know for sure.

And I certainly don't know the answer, but how many times has a team gotten the ball on their own 4 with 15 seconds on the clock and no timeouts, and then was able to kick a field goal?

But I'm still glad that the Pats lost. And I read this morning that this play was the longest game-winning play (last play of the game that scored the winning points) in NFL history.
  #144  
Old 12-11-2018, 03:10 PM
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On the heels of last night's loss to Seattle (and weeks of poor offense), the Vikings have fired offensive coordinator John DeFilippo.

https://www.si.com/nfl/2018/12/11/vi...ve-coordinator
  #145  
Old 12-11-2018, 03:33 PM
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That's the guy who convinced the team to sign Kirk Cousins rather than any of the three quarterbacks they already had on their roster, isn't he? How are their performances looking compared to Cousins (that's not a rhetorical question -- I'm not following the NFL super closely)
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Old 12-11-2018, 03:59 PM
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eschereal eschereal is offline
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Originally Posted by Rysto View Post
That's the guy who convinced the team to sign Kirk Cousins rather than any of the three quarterbacks they already had on their roster, isn't he? How are their performances looking compared to Cousins (that's not a rhetorical question -- I'm not following the NFL super closely)
Cousins is #8 in passing yards and #9 in PTDs, with a season rating of 98.4, so, a yeoman's job at least. I would not be complaining about his performance.
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Old 12-11-2018, 04:01 PM
enalzi enalzi is offline
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Originally Posted by Rysto View Post
That's the guy who convinced the team to sign Kirk Cousins rather than any of the three quarterbacks they already had on their roster, isn't he? How are their performances looking compared to Cousins (that's not a rhetorical question -- I'm not following the NFL super closely)
Teddy Bridgewater is the Saints backup.
Sam Bradford started in Arizona for three games, was pulled, and eventually cut.
Case Keenum is doing not great out in Denver.
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Old 12-11-2018, 04:01 PM
Chisquirrel Chisquirrel is offline
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Originally Posted by Rysto View Post
That's the guy who convinced the team to sign Kirk Cousins rather than any of the three quarterbacks they already had on their roster, isn't he? How are their performances looking compared to Cousins (that's not a rhetorical question -- I'm not following the NFL super closely)
Case Keenum is the only one starting, sitting right in the middle of the pack in Denver. Bradford was cut and Bridgewater is Brees' backup in New Orleans - thus a candidate for yet another former Viking to get a Super Bowl ring. Cousins IS better than any of the quarterbacks Minnesota had, but he's virtually guaranteed to be their quarterback for the next two seasons, given his contract. If he gets a bad injury, they have a $30m lawn ornament that they can't even trade. Good player, TERRIBLE contract.
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Old 12-11-2018, 04:22 PM
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Atamasama Atamasama is offline
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I’d like to point out that Cousins has received a lot of criticism this year and the Vikings have received criticism for signing him. Just read almost any article about the Vikings and you’ll see it. However, none of the criticism is leveled at his ability or the idea that they signed the wrong person. The criticism is almost solely about Kirk getting overpaid and the Vikings giving away far too much in the contract.

Well, there are some criticisms about his penchant for check downs and his inability to win in prime time and/or against quality teams but that’s different from saying that’s he’s bad...
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Old 12-12-2018, 09:26 AM
Barkis is Willin' Barkis is Willin' is offline
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Case Keenum is an average QB, which for what he costs ($8M) compared to what Cousins costs ($22.5M) may have been enough for the Vikings considering they were depending on having a rock solid defense. And Cousins isn't exactly doing amazing things. Every game the Vikings have won, the defense held the opponent to 21 points or fewer.
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