Straight Dope Message Board

[Scumpup]

I'll quit reminding him he's a fool and an asshole when stops being a fool and an asshole. He hasn't abandoned or repudiated his "one bad day" idiocy. He has, in fact, repeated it several times since this farrago started. His version of The Big Lie? Stubborn idiocy? Deep seated insecurity about admitting error? I don't know, Rusty...But I do know this: Every time he says that bullshit he insults every gun-owning member of this board. He needs to retract that idiocy, if not apologize to everyone here that he has smeared. 5051

[Bullitt]

Originally Posted by August West

Is Homeowner X a trained ninja? My answer requires this information.

No he is not. The situation is as presented. 5052

[Bullitt]

Originally Posted by Buck Godot

Geez what kind of life do you lead where the people who break into your house are armed with knives and baseball bats and breaking in with the specific intent to doing you harm.

It happens. Thankfully it hasn't happened to either of us.

Are you willing to bet your life that they aren't going to harm you?

I'm sure you guys (both sides) have been down this road already. 5053

[Fear Itself]

Originally Posted by Bullitt

Are you willing to bet your life that they aren't going to harm you?

Every day. 5054

[Gyrate]

Originally Posted by Scumpup

I'll quit reminding him he's a fool and an asshole when stops being a fool and an asshole. He hasn't abandoned or repudiated his "one bad day" idiocy. He has, in fact, repeated it several times since this farrago started. His version of The Big Lie? Stubborn idiocy? Deep seated insecurity about admitting error? I don't know, Rusty...But I do know this: Every time he says that bullshit he insults every gun-owning member of this board. He needs to retract that idiocy, if not apologize to everyone here that he has smeared.

He does seem to have contracted a bad case of Dio's Disease, where every argument must be pursued to its extreme and no ground must be relinquished. It's a bit sad, really. He and I are sort of on the same side but not remotely in the same place. 5055

[Bullitt]

Originally Posted by Fear Itself

Every day.

Roll the dice baby!

Actually I bet on this most days too. I don't sleep with my gun under my pillow. It's usually in the safe. Nearby, sure, but it'd take a few seconds to get it if needed, and pressing the digital combo it beeps each button press, so it's not quiet - so much for surprise.

It's nice living in a safe community, I'm grateful for that, yes. I certainly do not want or advocate everyone being armed, especially walking around armed. 5056

[Bone]

Originally Posted by Bullitt

Actually I bet on this most days too. I don't sleep with my gun under my pillow. It's usually in the safe. Nearby, sure, but it'd take a few seconds to get it if needed, and pressing the digital combo it beeps each button press, so it's not quiet - so much for surprise.

Check out the Titan Gun Safe. It's secure, quiet, and quick. Mechanical so no electronics to fail. It's pricey though. 5057

[ElvisL1ves]

Originally Posted by Gyrate

every argument must be pursued to its extreme and no ground must be relinquished.

To repeat, it's about saving human lives. In some systems of morality, that's about the most important thing there is, yanno? Perhaps you disagree. 5058

[ElvisL1ves]

Originally Posted by Scumpup

His version of The Big Lie?

Which one is that?

Every time he says that bullshit he insults every gun-owning member of this board. He needs to retract that idiocy, if not apologize to everyone here that he has smeared.

When come back, bring facts.

And kindly stop regaling us with your toddler-rape porn fantasies, and go get help. 5059

[Gyrate]

Originally Posted by ElvisL1ves

To repeat, it's about saving human lives. In some systems of morality, that's about the most important thing there is, yanno? Perhaps you disagree.

I agree it's about saving lives. And in an ideal world I'd wiggle my nose and make all the guns vanish. But my name's not Sabrina and even without the Constitutional issues you can't change American culture to a diametrically opposed position by haranguing people.

Frankly I'd rather start by dealing with the people who think that racking a shotgun in Walmart is just fine and the people who want to hand out revolvers in Crackerjack boxes and all the others who think the Second Amendment means that they can do Any Damn Thing They Want with a gun. I want people who think that it's their job to be ready at any moment to fight off the Bad Guys at their local coffee shop to keep their paranoid fantasies to themselves. I want to keep guns out of the hands of criminals, the mentally ill and children. I want legislation based on good solid research, and I want the NRA to stop blocking that research.

And overall I want to encourage responsible gun use, not drive the responsible gun users over to the side of the Crazies. And that's not going to happen if you insist on an all-or-nothing position. So let's first work toward removing the barriers to constructive dialogue rather than being one, and we'll go from there. 5060

[Lumpy]

Originally Posted by Gyrate

I agree it's about saving lives. And in an ideal world I'd wiggle my nose and make all the guns vanish. But my name's not Sabrina and even without the Constitutional issues you can't change American culture to a diametrically opposed position by haranguing people.

Frankly I'd rather start by dealing with the people who think that racking a shotgun in Walmart is just fine and the people who want to hand out revolvers in Crackerjack boxes and all the others who think the Second Amendment means that they can do Any Damn Thing They Want with a gun. I want people who think that it's their job to be ready at any moment to fight off the Bad Guys at their local coffee shop to keep their paranoid fantasies to themselves. I want to keep guns out of the hands of criminals, the mentally ill and children. I want legislation based on good solid research, and I want the NRA to stop blocking that research.

And overall I want to encourage responsible gun use, not drive the responsible gun users over to the side of the Crazies. And that's not going to happen if you insist on an all-or-nothing position. So let's first work toward removing the barriers to constructive dialogue rather than being one, and we'll go from there.

There are indeed gun crazies that I like to say "get off my side". 5061

[Buck Godot]

Originally Posted by Bullitt

It happens. Thankfully it hasn't happened to either of us.

Are you willing to bet your life that they aren't going to harm you?

I'm sure you guys (both sides) have been down this road already.

Lets just say I am glad that I accidentally assumed the burglar was my dad and let him get off with my wallet (and several hundreds of dollars that I had taken out to use on the vactaion). Than to accidentally assume that my dad was a burglar and fill him full of lead. 5062

[Lumpy]

Originally Posted by Buck Godot

Lets just say I am glad that I accidentally assumed the burglar was my dad and let him get off with my wallet (and several hundreds of dollars that I had taken out to use on the vactaion). Than to accidentally assume that my dad was a burglar and fill him full of lead.

But- but... We have to let stupid people kill themselves and their relatives to weed out the gene pool, or we'll end up with an idiocracy. 5063

[Bullitt]

Originally Posted by Lumpy

But- but... We have to let stupid people kill themselves and their relatives to weed out the gene pool, or we'll end up with an idiocracy.

Please don't do it. Don't kill yourself or your relatives. The rest of us will get by even with a lowered IQ in the gene pool. 5064

[septimus]

Originally Posted by Bullitt

Let's try a hypothetical test. [my emphasis]

... two criminals who are armed with knives and baseball bats. They see the homeowner and aggressively rush towards him. In the few seconds that have transpired so far, the homeowner realizes they are nobody he knows.

...Which homeowner has the better chance at defending his life, and the lives of the rest of his family including an attractive 16-yo daughter asleep upstairs? Not to mention his gorgeous wife?

Let's talk about probabilities. Is such a home invasion one of the major threats you face? Do you keep kryptonite on hand in case a hypothetical villanous alien shows up? If you're like me, failure to keep medications (like nitroglycerine) on hand reduces life expectancy many thousands of times more than a defense against home invasion by bat wielders would. A can of mace when they go out will probably reduce your wife's and daughter's risk of rape orders of magnitude more than your gun will.

I've never been an anti-gun control freak, and used to blame America's absurdly high death rate from guns more on cultural sicknesses than availability of guns.
Reading threads like this has changed mind. Many of you American gun nuts have sick twisted minds.

Risks need to be assessed quantitatively. For example, cutting or burning our grass to make it harder for snakes to hide improves my household's safety far more than a gun would. The cynical right-wing nincompoops you gun nuts help to elect represent a far bigger threat to your quality of life than your hypothetical bat-wielding home invader. 5065

[Lumpy]

Allow me to posit the following hypothetical conversation:

Gun Owner: "I was in a situation where having a gun kept me from being (robbed/beaten/raped/killed). Thank God I had a gun!"

Gun Control Advocate: "But statistically guns are far more likely to enable suicide, accidentally kill people, or be used to murder. The number of self-defense uses don't justify the harm guns do. They should be severely restricted or banned".

Gun Owner: "But what about me? I'd have been up shit creek if I hadn't had a gun!"

Gun Control Advocate: "That would have been regrettable; but I have to consider all the people who were harmed because guns are easily available in the US."

Gun Owner: "Are you saying that I, who didn't do anything wrong, should have agreed to be harmed, for everyone else's sake??"

Gun Control Advocate: "It would be for the greater good, yes."

Now, at this point, is the Gun Owner entitled to say "Fuck You!!"? 5066

[Fear Itself]

Allow me to posit the following hypothetical conversation:

Anti-Vaccination Loon: "I had a friend/family member whose child got a vaccination then developed autism! Thank goodness I don't vaccinate my children!

Pro-Vaccination Supporter: "But statistically vaccinations are far more likely to prevent dangerous and sometimes fatal illness. The unfounded fear of autism doesn't justify the harm going without vaccinations does. They should be mandatory".

Anti-Vaccination Loon: "But what about my children? I don't want them to get autism!"

Pro-Vaccination Supporter: "Your belief is not based in realty. We have to consider all the people who would be harmed because of the unvaccinated children in the US."

Anti-Vaccination Loon: "Are you saying that my children, who didn't do anything wrong, should have agreed to be harmed, for everyone else's sake??"

Pro-Vaccination Supporter: "It would be for the greater good, yes."

Now, at this point, is the Anti-Vaccination Loon entitled to say "Fuck You!!"? 5067

[Lumpy]

False analogy. Studies have failed to show a vaccination-autism link, whereas having a gun has demonstrably enabled people to defend themselves. 5068

[Scumpup]

Originally Posted by ElvisL1ves

Which one is that?

When come back, bring facts.

And kindly stop regaling us with your toddler-rape porn fantasies, and go get help.

This rubber-glue thing hasn't worked for you yet, but it is just one more thing you are too fucking dumb to recognize. Here is the only salient fact: you stated everyone is one bad day from mass murder and now you refuse to take ownership of it. I already linked in this thread to where you said it and I pointed out how you chickenshitted out of that thread entirely when called on it. You are a coward. You are a liar. Most of all, you are completely delusional in your assessment of both your basic intelligence and how you have "pwned" this (or any) thread. It's a shame your father didn't get his nuts bitten off by a shar-pei when he was a child. 5069

[dropzone]

I'm glad this thread exists to be a ghetto for all this animosity and stupidity. Keeps the rest of the board nice.

Carry on. 5070

[Scumpup]

Originally Posted by dropzone

I'm glad this thread exists to be a ghetto for all this animosity and stupidity. Keeps the rest of the board nice.

Carry on.

You're just so, so very cool. 5071

[Scumpup]

Originally Posted by ElvisL1ves

To repeat, it's about saving human lives. In some systems of morality, that's about the most important thing there is, yanno? Perhaps you disagree.

What about you and the preservation of lives? I have asked you before, without you answering, if you choose to not own guns because you fear you would commit murder if you had a gun. Care to answer that now? How could it do other than increase community respect for you to let it be public knowledge that you renounce arms in the interest of our safety? 5072

[dropzone]

Originally Posted by Scumpup

You're just so, so very cool.

Why, thank you! Coming from you it means so very much! 5073

[Damuri Ajashi]

Originally Posted by ElvisL1ves

To repeat, it's about saving human lives. In some systems of morality, that's about the most important thing there is, yanno? Perhaps you disagree.

So I take it you are pro-life? Please prove that there are more murders as a result of the legal ownership of guns as opposed to banning private ownership of guns. 5074

[Scumpup]

Originally Posted by dropzone

Why, thank you! Coming from you it means so very much!

Take pride in your threadshitting, even though this is The Pit. Now that you have shat, move on. 5075

[Scumpup]

Still waiting to hear whether or not ElvisL1ves chooses not to own a gun for fear of committing murder. 5076

[ElvisL1ves]

Originally Posted by Damuri Ajashi

So I take it you are pro-life? Please prove that there are more murders as a result of the legal ownership of guns as opposed to banning private ownership of guns.

Already done, many many times, as you fucking well know. Of course, nothing can get through your wall of fear, can it?

Now, when are you going to tell us what rate of murders should be "acceptable" (your own choice of word)? You've told us multiple times that there is one, but not what it is. So, what is it? 5077

[ElvisL1ves]

Originally Posted by Lumpy

having a gun has demonstrably enabled people to defend themselves.

And has enabled many more to get killed. Right? 5078

[ElvisL1ves]

Originally Posted by Scumpup

This rubber-glue thing hasn't worked for you yet

I'm not one of the ones trying it, am I? Tell your delusional-psychotic friend who thinks people with a respect for human life are "hoplophobes", and that some rate of killings is "acceptable".

Nobody but you is talking about child rape, either. 5079

[Lumpy]

Originally Posted by ElvisL1ves

And has enabled many more to get killed. Right?

If guns ever were banned, and some machete-wielding psycho on PCP was kicking down your door, would your last thoughts be of all the people you saved by opposing guns? 5080

[Fear Itself]

Originally Posted by Lumpy

If guns ever were banned, and some machete-wielding psycho on PCP was kicking down your door, would your last thoughts be of all the people you saved by opposing guns?

Of course. What would you be fantasizing about? 5081

[Scumpup]

Still waiting to hear about why you don't own a gun, ElvisL1ves. Why, to the interested observer, it really is starting to look like you are an evasive, disingenuous mound of dung. 5082

[Bullitt]

You use too many words when one will do: CHICKENSHIT. 5083

[Jack Batty]

Yes. Everyone who doesn't own a gun, and who doesn't recognize the fact that a machete wielding maniac will probably kick down their door any second now is an obvious chicken-shit. Good call, Captain Paranoia. 5084

[Hentor the Barbarian]

Originally Posted by Bullitt

You use too many words when one will do: CHICKENSHIT.

Wiat, the guy who is able to go out in the world without arming himself is the chickenshit?

Naw. The real pussies are the ones who are petrified about things that don't strike such fear into the majority of people. Most men, women and children who can successfully go to places like a department store without fear.

A minority of mostly fat, white middle aged men are unable to do this without getting themselves extra protection. I'm certainly sorry that you're such a pussy, but i do not like that your panic puts the rest of us at risk. 5085

[Bullitt]

Who's panicking? Who's going to department stores not feeling safe unless they're armed? Don't lump me in with gun nuts who do.

Elvis has been asked questions, only to avoid them and hide behind mama's skirt. That is chickenshit. 5086

[Hentor the Barbarian]

Originally Posted by Jack Batty

Yes. Everyone who doesn't own a gun, and who doesn't recognize the fact that a machete wielding maniac will probably kick down their door any second now is an obvious chicken-shit. Good call, Captain Paranoia.

Maybe we should take it easy on poor Bullitt. I mean, there's nothing about Bullitt that suggests he is unduly fixated on compesating for his general sense of impotence in the world. What do we really know about Bullitt that would give us any sense that he has to project a facade of strength and power? It isn't like Bullitt did anything when joining this board that would suggest he needs other people to see him as quite the rough customer. Not Bullitt. 5087

[Bullitt]

Was there a question in there somewhere? Or are you going to hide behind your keyboard? 5088

[Hentor the Barbarian]

I think Bullitt is calling me out! Are we supposed to meet at high noon somewhere?

Wow! You ARE a rough customer whose name in real life must be Bullitt! 5089

[Bullitt]

Yeah I thought there was a chance you'd react that way. Maybe you're the one who is paranoid and feels unsafe? 5090

[Hentor the Barbarian]

Originally Posted by Bullitt

Yeah I thought there was a chance you'd react that way. Maybe you're the one who is paranoid and feels unsafe?

You're anonymously calling for someone to step outside on an internet message board. Don't you realize that this makes you look pretty stupid, in addition to being a giant poser, Bullitt? 5091

[Bullitt]

No to both. I guess you didn't have a question after all. Go away. 5092

[Hentor the Barbarian]

Originally Posted by Bullitt

No to both. I guess you didn't have a question after all. Go away.

Anything you say. Just please stop being so darn intimidating! Yikes! 5093

[Damuri Ajashi]

Originally Posted by Buck Godot

Geez what kind of life do you lead where the people who break into your house are armed with knives and baseball bats and breaking in with the specific intent to doing you harm. If I happen to be on the mobs hit list than yes I agree I want to be armed. But if I'm just an average person than chances are they want to steal some stuff and get out ASAP particularly if they know the cops are on the way.

There are entire neighorhoods in almost every city in this country where this is a real concern for many people. 5094

[Hentor the Barbarian]

Originally Posted by Damuri Ajashi

There are entire neighorhoods in almost every city in this country where this is a real concern for many people.

And then there are suburbs in every city where pudgy white guys are arming themselves to the teeth in fear that those people who live in those city neighborhoods will attack at any minute. 5095

[Damuri Ajashi]

Originally Posted by ElvisL1ves

Already done, many many times, as you fucking well know. Of course, nothing can get through your wall of fear, can it?

You're wrong. You've never proven that banning guns would lead to fewer murders. Not even close.

Now, when are you going to tell us what rate of murders should be "acceptable" (your own choice of word)? You've told us multiple times that there is one, but not what it is. So, what is it?

When did I say murder were acceptable? I think you might be confusing me with someone else. 5096

[Damuri Ajashi]

Originally Posted by ElvisL1ves

And has enabled many more to get killed. Right?

And how many of those guns were fired by people who were legally allowed to own a gun? And of those, how many would have a gun anyway even if guns were illegal? 5097

[Damuri Ajashi]

Originally Posted by Lumpy

If guns ever were banned, and some machete-wielding psycho on PCP was kicking down your door, would your last thoughts be of all the people you saved by opposing guns?

It is mot likely that the rate of criminal gun use would drop significantly because guns are illegal. Maybe over decades but not immediately and significantly. 5098

[ElvisL1ves]

Your quasi-religious wall of fear insulates you from the world of fact and morality, I know. That would be your own problem if it didn't contribute to the people-getting-killed problem, which you refuse to recognize exists. 5099

[Damuri Ajashi]

Originally Posted by Bullitt

Yeah I thought there was a chance you'd react that way. Maybe you're the one who is paranoid and feels unsafe?

Its all they have left. They have lost just about every major legal and political battle and they are keenly aware that they have been shooting themselves in the foot by doing things like trying to ban guns that have bayonet lugs and adjustable stocks. They realize that the supreme court might start applying intermediate scrutiny to all gun laws (which would wipe most of them out or force them to be rewritten).

They can't prove that guns are the scourge of society that they imagine in their heads so they just call gun owners names. Its all they have left. 5100