Straight Dope Message Board

[ThelmaLou]

"Trophy Hunter Seeks to Import Parts of Rare Rhino He Paid $400,000 to Kill"
https://nyti.ms/34wADfz

My question: how small does your penis have to be to pay $400K for an orgasm? And did committing this atrocity make his dick any bigger?

1

[Atamasama]

The spin on this is that the money will partially go to pay for conservation, so in the long run it’s good for the world rhino population.

Because as science tells us, if you get enough cash and put it in a pile, and let it sit for a while, a bunch of baby rhinos will pop out of it. 2

[ThelmaLou]

Originally Posted by Atamasama

The spin on this is that the money will partially go to pay for conservation, so in the long run it’s good for the world rhino population.
....

That is 100% beside the point I am making. If he gave a fuck about living rhinos, he could have just donated the money to conservation. Clearly, he could spare the cash. He craved the rush that comes (so to speak) from killing. 3

[running coach]

Originally Posted by Atamasama

The spin on this is that the money will partially go to pay for conservation, so in the long run it’s good for the world rhino population.

Because as science tells us, if you get enough cash and put it in a pile, and let it sit for a while, a bunch of baby rhinos will pop out of it.

I have every confidence that none of that money was siphoned off by various corrupt individuals and/or the government.
: old rolleyes : 4

[kirkrapine]

Originally Posted by ThelmaLou

My question: how small does your penis have to be to pay $400K for an orgasm? And did committing this atrocity make his dick any bigger?

One reason rhinos are hunted is that some people -- Chinese, in particular -- believe powdered rhino horn is an effective aphrodisiac, for reasons that should not require, and cannot survive, much thought.

Of course, rhino horn is nothing but compressed hair, and there are much cheaper, and clinically tested, erectile dysfunction drugs on the market.

OTOH, it's hard to arouse public sympathy for an endangered species so ugly and nasty and ill-tempered as the rhino. I once saw a performing hippo at Ringling Bros. Barnum & Bailey Circus, but a rhino would have been out of the question. 5

[kirkrapine]

Perhaps "Save the unicorns!" would be an effective message. (It is generally believed that the legendary/heraldic unicorn was based on third-hand accounts of the rhino -- medieval Europeans would never actually have seen one, so they rendered the story into a "one-horned horse.") 6

[Bookkeeper]

Originally Posted by kirkrapine

One reason rhinos are hunted is that some people -- Chinese, in particular -- believe powdered rhino horn is an effective aphrodisiac, for reasons that should not require, and cannot survive, much thought.

Of course, rhino horn is nothing but compressed hair, and there are much cheaper, and clinically tested, erectile dysfunction drugs on the market.

OTOH, it's hard to arouse public sympathy for an endangered species so ugly and nasty and ill-tempered as the rhino. I once saw a performing hippo at Ringling Bros. Barnum & Bailey Circus, but a rhino would have been out of the question.

By far the largest market for rhino horns for traditional medicine is Vietnam. Another market is newly wealthy citizens of Yemen and Oman who want high status rhino horn handles for their traditional daggers. 7

[Riemann]

Originally Posted by kirkrapine

OTOH, it's hard to arouse public sympathy for an endangered species so ugly and nasty and ill-tempered as the rhino. I once saw a performing hippo at Ringling Bros. Barnum & Bailey Circus, but a rhino would have been out of the question.

Strange comment. The rhino is one of the “Big Five” in Africa, safari sightings are highly valued. There’s immense public sympathy for conservation for such an impressive beast. It’s harder to gain support for an endangered animal if it’s seen as dull or unimpressive. 8

[Odesio]

Originally Posted by Atamasama

Because as science tells us, if you get enough cash and put it in a pile, and let it sit for a while, a bunch of baby rhinos will pop out of it.

Trophy hunting isn't posing a significant risk to animals in Africa. It's the demise of suitable prey because bush meat is popular, habitat loss, and locals killing them to prevent loss of cattle or people that are the main threats to lions, rhinos, and other animals. Trophy hunting as a source of revenue gives the people a reason to give a damn about their local wildlife. If these animals are a source of income the locals are more likely to set aside land for them to live on, less likely to assist poachers, and more likely to seek other alternatives to protecting their cattle and people than slaughtering the offending creature.

I'm not a fan of trophy hunting myself. I hunt deer but I have zero desire to shoot a lion, rhino, or some other exotic African animal. But trophy hunting appears to be good for conservation efforts. 9

[Jasmine]

This is why I've always enjoyed the "Predator" move franchise. Humans get to see what it's like when the shoe is on the other foot. Getting hunted and then murdered is a terrifying thing. I couldn't do that to any living creature unless it was for food to survive. Even then, I'd feel pretty darn bad about it. 10

[ThelmaLou]

Originally Posted by Odesio

...I'm not a fan of trophy hunting myself. I hunt deer but I have zero desire to shoot a lion, rhino, or some other exotic African animal. But trophy hunting appears to be good for conservation efforts.

Again, NOT the point! If he gave a rat's ass about conservation, he could have just donated the money. Yes, the deer population can get out of control, so hunting deer CAN be good for the deer population. (My late husband was a hunter all his life and our freezer was usually full of venison.) The population of an ENDANGERED SPECIES does not need to be culled.

"Good for conservation efforts"? Bullshit. 11

[Jackmannii]

Originally Posted by ThelmaLou

The population of an ENDANGERED SPECIES does not need to be culled.

The article mentions as justification that this particular rhino was supposedly interfering with breeding by other male rhinos.

Allowing importation of "trophy" parts still sends a bad message in my view. Better to have our government financially support conservation efforts instead of using bounties from hunters for that purpose.

And yes, from what I've heard, use of rhino horn for "medicinal" purposes endangers these animals far more than hunting by dumbass foreigners. It's disheartening to hear of so many animal and plant species that are threatened because collectors/poachers are supplying a market for "alternative" remedies - that mostly are ineffective for the conditions they're claimed to treat. 12

[Buck Godot]

Its not even as though this hunt was going to be particularly thrilling. You follow the signal on the radio collar in a jeep to where the Rhino is peacefully browsing, someone hands you your high powered rifle and plop him one between the eyes. I'm not seeing much of a point other than ticking off another box in your "animals I've murdered" life list. 13

[Robot Arm]

Originally Posted by Jasmine

This is why I've always enjoyed the "Predator" move franchise. Humans get to see what it's like when the shoe is on the other foot.

There's an episode of Futurama that you'd love. 14

[Atamasama]

Originally Posted by ThelmaLou

That is 100% beside the point I am making. If he gave a fuck about living rhinos, he could have just donated the money to conservation. Clearly, he could spare the cash. He craved the rush that comes (so to speak) from killing.

Seems like you completely ignored the part of my post that you cut in the quote. I think you’re the one that missed the point here. Throwing cash at a problem doesn’t fix it when that problem is a dwindling population and you’re simultaneously paying someone to kill a member of it. 15

[Snowboarder Bo]

I'm pretty sure ThelmaLou understood your post and your point just fine, based on what I read. 16

[Lemur866]

What's wrong with someone that they'd pay $400,000 just to murder a rhinoceros?

I get hunting. I'm in favor of hunting. It's part of human nature. But this sort of "hunting" is just pathetic.

There are all kinds of animals out there for you to murder, and this is what you decide to do? You can't hunt deer, or wild pigs like a normal human being?

In the past, killing a powerful animal like a rhinoceros proved that you were a serious bad ass. I could understand if a guy 1000 years ago felt like a big man because he killed a rhinoceros with a spear or something. But in 2019? This is what you choose to make yourself feel like a big man? Seriously? 17

[Atamasama]

Originally Posted by Snowboarder Bo

I'm pretty sure ThelmaLou understood your post and your point just fine, based on what I read.

Then why is she saying that what I wrote is 100% beside the point when we’re in agreement? That makes zero sense. 18

[mhendo]

I tend to agree that these big game hunters are generally douchebags looking for bragging rights, and I'm also not sure that we should be giving them permission to import their penis-substitute trophies into the country.

At the same time, as a believer in animal rights and a vegetarian for almost three decades, I just can't get too excited about this. Most of the available evidence suggests that the money from big-game hunting does contribute measurably to broader conservation efforts in Africa. It gives local communities jobs and income, helps to reduce poaching, and provides an incentive to maintain a wilderness that might otherwise be depleted even further in search of economic gain.

Originally Posted by Atamasama

Throwing cash at a problem doesn’t fix it when that problem is a dwindling population and you’re simultaneously paying someone to kill a member of it.

Firstly, the population is not currently dwindling. The black rhino population is currently about two and a half times the size it was at its low point, in the early 1990s, when there were only about 2,300 left in the wild.

Namibia has the right, under international treaties, to allow five black rhino kills per year. They're probably going to take advantage of that allocation no matter what, so they might as well do it by charging some American asshole with too much money the price of a decent house to satisfy his blood lust. For the five kills, that's a total of about $2 million into an economy with a per-capita GDP of less than $6,000, and this sort of hunting helps sustain a tourism industry that's almost 15% of the country's economy, and over 18% of its employment.

I concede the possibility that some of this money ends up lining the pockets of corrupt officials, but according to Transparency International, Namibia is the second-least corrupt nation on the African continent, and its corruption index is not far behind Spain, and is ahead of Italy and South Africa. They say that much of the money from these hunting trips helps to fund conservation. If the money they get from five rhino kills helps them to prevent even, say, 8 rhinos from being killed by poachers, isn't that small net gain a good thing?

Originally Posted by ThelmaLou

Again, NOT the point! If he gave a rat's ass about conservation, he could have just donated the money.

<snip>

"Good for conservation efforts"? Bullshit.

This is stupid.

No-one is arguing that THIS PARTICULAR GUY is a conservationist. But that doesn't mean that the money he paid, and the trophy hunting program more generally, don't contribute to conservation efforts. 19

[Dinsdale]

So what does this guy plan on doing w/ the rhino-remains? What subset of American society would react anything other than unfavorably to seeing rhino parts displayed?

Yeah, I don't understand why someone would get a thrill out of this sort of killing. 20

[Lemur866]

Originally Posted by Dinsdale

So what does this guy plan on doing w/ the rhino-remains? What subset of American society would react anything other than unfavorably to seeing rhino parts displayed?

Yeah, I don't understand why someone would get a thrill out of this sort of killing.

95% chance he just wants to be able to have a stuffed rhino head hanging in his library, so he can regale his guests with his tales of heroism over brandy and cigars. 21

[Dinsdale]

Yeah - I guess most social guests I invite into my home tend to be on the same liberal end of the spectrum as my wife and me, so it shouldn't surprise me that he would socialize with folk who shared his - ahem - values.

Looks like he inherited an excavating firm from his daddy, and his daddy and mommy also like to shoot things. Glad my parents had different hobbies. 22

[Sunny Daze]

Originally Posted by kirkrapine

Perhaps "Save the unicorns!" would be an effective message. (It is generally believed that the legendary/heraldic unicorn was based on third-hand accounts of the rhino -- medieval Europeans would never actually have seen one, so they rendered the story into a "one-horned horse.")

The animal usually cited is the Oryx. When seen in profile, their long straight horns may appear as a single horn. They are also much closer in shape to a horse than the rhino is. 23

[Atamasama]

Originally Posted by mhendo

Firstly, the population is not currently dwindling. The black rhino population is currently about two and a half times the size it was at its low point, in the early 1990s, when there were only about 2,300 left in the wild.

Namibia has the right, under international treaties, to allow five black rhino kills per year. They're probably going to take advantage of that allocation no matter what, so they might as well do it by charging some American asshole with too much money the price of a decent house to satisfy his blood lust. For the five kills, that's a total of about $2 million into an economy with a per-capita GDP of less than $6,000, and this sort of hunting helps sustain a tourism industry that's almost 15% of the country's economy, and over 18% of its employment.

Hmm, I guess the policy isn’t as bad as I originally thought then. If the population is recovering and sacrificing a small number can generate enough money to help conservation efforts to continue the improvement of their situation, that’s channeling a rich asshole’s weird desires into a positive outlet I guess. I agree with ThelmaLou that this guy is no saint helping animals; if he was then he’d just donate the money directly without killing an animal to make a rhino scrotum hat or whatever. 24

[ThelmaLou]

Originally Posted by mhendo

...This is stupid.

WHAT exactly is stupid? Unclear antecedent.

No-one is arguing that THIS PARTICULAR GUY is a conservationist. ...

I posted about this particular guy. Period. That is what this thread is about. Him. His need to pay an outrageous amount of money to be allowed to kill. This particular man's need to commit an atrocity for only one reason: the thrill of killing something so he can show off his trophy. That's MY point.

Everyone else who posted may make whatever points they want to make among themselves. 25

[mhendo]

Originally Posted by ThelmaLou

WHAT exactly is stupid? Unclear antecedent.

Your whole post.

Originally Posted by ThelmaLou

I posted about this particular guy. Period. That is what this thread is about. Him. His need to pay an outrageous amount of money to be allowed to kill. This particular man's need to commit an atrocity for only one reason: the thrill of killing something so he can show off his trophy. That's MY point.

If you're ONLY talking about this one guy, then why, in the post that I quoted, did you say: " "Good for conservation efforts"? Bullshit." ?

As far as I know, the douchebag in question has never claimed that he was shooting rhino for conservationist reasons, so why did you call "bullshit" on the conservation argument if you're ONLY talking about him? 26

[jz78817]

Originally Posted by ThelmaLou

Again, NOT the point! If he gave a rat's ass about conservation, he could have just donated the money. Yes, the deer population can get out of control, so hunting deer CAN be good for the deer population. (My late husband was a hunter all his life and our freezer was usually full of venison.) The population of an ENDANGERED SPECIES does not need to be culled.

"Good for conservation efforts"? Bullshit.

yeah, this. I'm a deer hunter too (for the meat) and think this crap is unconscionable. Rhino populations are pretty goddamn precarious (and one or more are effectively extinct) and AFAIAC anyone killing one for a "trophy" should be turned into a trophy himself. 27

[Superdude]

Originally Posted by Robot Arm

There's an episode of Futurama that you'd love.

I had that same thought. Human horn 28

[Inigo Montoya]

Originally Posted by Dinsdale

So what does this guy plan on doing w/ the rhino-remains? What subset of American society would react anything other than unfavorably to seeing rhino parts displayed?

Up until a couple years ago I might have wondered the same thing about child prostitution, but evidently the answer to your question would be, "rich old white dudes". 29

[Odesio]

Originally Posted by ThelmaLou

Again, NOT the point! If he gave a rat's ass about conservation, he could have just donated the money. Yes, the deer population can get out of control, so hunting deer CAN be good for the deer population. (My late husband was a hunter all his life and our freezer was usually full of venison.) The population of an ENDANGERED SPECIES does not need to be culled.

"Good for conservation efforts"? Bullshit.

I realize this isn't great debates but do you have a cite for your statement that the population of an endangered species doesn't need to be culled? I agree that it seems counter intuitive, but I'm not an expert on wildlife management of any kind let alone when it comes to rhinos. And, yes, trophy hunting is good for conservation efforts. I'm pretty sure this isn't what motivated the dude to hunt but so what? 30

[Folacin]

Originally Posted by Odesio

I realize this isn't great debates but do you have a cite for your statement that the population of an endangered species doesn't need to be culled? I agree that it seems counter intuitive, but I'm not an expert on wildlife management of any kind let alone when it comes to rhinos. And, yes, trophy hunting is good for conservation efforts. I'm pretty sure this isn't what motivated the dude to hunt but so what?

Yeah, assuming that some level of culling/harvesting/slaughter is either desirable or at least non-damaging, selling a hunt to raise funds for conservation seems like a non-bad idea. Thelma's point about if the gives a rat-ass is missing that he likely doesn't give a rats-ass, but nonetheless contributed some portion of $400,000 to the cause anyway. 31

[JcWoman]

Originally Posted by ThelmaLou

His need to pay an outrageous amount of money to be allowed to kill. This particular man's need to commit an atrocity for only one reason: the thrill of killing something so he can show off his trophy. That's MY point.

I suspect that he also loves the "bragging rights" of being able to boast that he spent THAT much money on a hunt. It seems to me that spending it on conservation doesn't have the same ring to it amongst a certain demographic. Rich white dudes, indeed. 32